Wedekind Sleeve Source?

[kevi...@gmail.com]

Looking for Wedekind Sleeves for 1985 DG 400.

Anyone have any leads?

Thanks,

Kevin Anderson
92

[Dan Daly]

Searching ras:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.aviation.soaring/wedekind$20sleeves/rec.aviation.soaring/0OUqK__QnGQ/7dM6dQf0s1AJ

[kevi...@gmail.com]

Thanks Dan,

I placed an order through them.

Kevin

[Six-Seven Romeo]

I have purchased from McLean Aviation previously. http://www.mcleanaviation.co.uk/

Also see more details at http://aviation.derosaweb.net/wedekind/

Wedekind sleeves are the best for L'Hotellier fittings!

[marc....@gmail.com]

You do have to be careful, though, as I discovered to my dismay when I recently purchased sleeves for a Standard Cirrus (#446, pretty late in the SH production run), there are actually two kinds of L'Hotellier fittings, an early type with a rotating lock, and the more common type with a push down lock. Wedekind sleeves can only be used with the latter...

Marc

[Dirk Darling]

Kevin, I'm considering them myself. Let me know how the install goes. Take some pics if you don't mind. Thanks!

[kevi...@gmail.com]

Below is the best write up I have seen, with pics. by John DeRosa.

http://aviation.derosaweb.net/wedekind


Kevin
92

[Dirk Darling]

On Monday, September 14, 2015 at 3:17:28 PM UTC-7, kevi...@gmail.com wrote:

Kevin, I've seen that link, and it indicates that the installation is 'complicated'. The comment in the link about the 'white LS' sleeves suggested an installation of "5 seconds". That's a huge difference. I'll be interested to hear first hand from you where truth is.

[kevi...@gmail.com]

From what I understand the LS sleeves are good only for the straight hotellier connections, and have to be replaced every two years. I just got a quote for them and they are $25 a piece, to $50 every two years for only half of my connections, would still have to use the other safeties for the ailerons.

Kevin

[Alex]

The DeRosa summary explains the white LS sleeves pretty well. I have two additions:

I don't see a need to replace these at two year intervals. Ours have been in operation at least 8 years and sofar show no signs of wear or loosing tension.

I can confirm installation in 5 seconds, but that goes both ways. These sleeves easily get pulled off when dismantling the wings. We once had to return to an outlanding field to find a lost sleeve. I recommend keeping a spare.

[ZP]

Kevin, how did this go? Did you buy/install them yet?

-Dirk
ZP

[kevi...@gmail.com]

Bought sleeves but not installed yet. Looks like the airbrakes may be glued as well as riveted. Trying to get more details from the rep.

Kevin

[ifee...@hotmail.com]

Installing Wedekinds requires taking the couplings off the control rods (at least on the gliders I've done) so you either have to work out a way to measure the rod end adjustment before taking them apart and a way to ensure that you have them adjusted exactly the same after reassembly. Alternately you need to check the rigging of the control surfaces and adjust them to the proper deflections when you get it all back together. I know someone who put Wedekinds in his ASW-20 and spent a few years mucking around with the control adjustments because the glider kept rolling whenever he moved the flap lever. Eventually a mechanic in the club convinced him to let him use a digital protractor to set everything to factory spec and it flew perfectly afterwards.

The safety pins, especially if they're the captive type or tethered to the rods aren't that bad to deal with if you have a ship where the connections are easy to reach and see but with a 200/202/400 the Wedekinds are a real blessing.

[ZP]

Kevin, checking in to see if you ever installed them. This is still something I'm considering.

Thanks.
-Dirk

[Six-Seven Romeo]

The Wederkind sleeves are fairly complicated to install. The Uerling sleeves are pretty darn simple but only work on one type of Hotellier fittings. See http://derosaweb.net/aviation/wedekind/ for details. Good luck.

[Six-Seven Romeo]

I should have been more clear. There are two types of "sleeves" used for L'Hotellier (pronounced "leh-hotel-e-ay") fittings.

- Uerling sleeves referred to above as "White LS Sleeves". These are plastic, only work on straight L'Hotellier fittings and have to be replaced every two years. Simple to install as they just snap into place.

- Wedekind sleeves. These are metal (aluminum and steel parts), work on both straight and right-angle L'Hotellier fittings and are a permanent solution. Difficult to install as you have to 1) remove the push tubes with L'Hotellier fittings from the glider, 2) remove the L'Hotellier fittings from the push tubes (be SURE to measure the overall length beforehand!), 3) figure out the documentation 4) *CAREFULLY* measure, fit and then drill a single hole, 5) reinstall everything, and 6) try not muck up the alignment of the control surfaces. Still, it was worth it.

My $0.02. Best of luck.

John (OHM)

[Tango Eight]

Sheesh. Captive safety clips for the win. Make 'em yourself or buy from Schempp Hirth. Absolutely zero reason for those over engineered sleeves.

Take the thousand dollars (?) or so you save and put it to a new vario. Email me and I can help you with that too :-).

Evan Ludeman / T8

[Oscar-Hotel-Mike]

Certainly the addition of Wedekind sleeves is strictly a convenience issue and the safety clip is perfectly adequate. In my case one pair of connections completely invisible and getting the clips in place was by feel only which could be VERY frustrating on a hot summer day. The price tag was about $200 for the parts which is inexpensive for carefully made (and engineered) safety devices. My $0.02.

[Mark628CA]

My first Pegasus had L'Hotellier fittings with safety pins, and the small inspection hole was barely large enough for my forearm, so everything was by feel. I hated it. My second Pegasus had the Wedekind sleeves, and are worth every penny you might spend. Control hookup went from ten minutes and much cursing to about ten seconds.

[Tango Eight]

On Saturday, March 5, 2016 at 10:22:31 AM UTC-5, Mark628CA wrote:
> My first Pegasus had L'Hotellier fittings with safety pins, and the small inspection hole was barely large enough for my forearm, so everything was by feel. I hated it. My second Pegasus had the Wedekind sleeves, and are worth every penny you might spend. Control hookup went from ten minutes and much cursing to about ten seconds.

Perhaps we aren't talking about the same kinds of clips. I hook up, safety and physically test six connections on my ASW-20B with one hand, by feel, in about 90 seconds. Then I inspect by eye which takes about ten more. If the clips are properly installed and tweaked for proper fit, they more or less fall into place.

Here's a photo of a similar installation on a 20A. http://tinyurl.com/zdoprgz

Here are the clips before installation:
http://tinyurl.com/zbjf6nh

Those may be home made (but as far as I know you can also buy from Shempp Hirth).

None of this is to suggest that Wedekind sleeves aren't up to the job or that installing them was a bad idea. I simply wanted to point out that there is a good/fast/cheap option for those so inclined.

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8

[Vernon Brown]

Tango Eight, the wire clips in your pictures are ok, but you still have to
insert them in a hole in the L'Hotellie, one advantage with your clips is
not having to remove the L'Hotellier when you originally install them.

The Wedekind sleeves is pulled back against its spring, then when the rod
is connected the sleeve is released, the sleeve under its spring tension
slides over the L'Hotellier, locking it in place.
To disconnect the control, the sleeve is pulled clear of L'Hotellier, the
L'Hotellier can then be disengaged.
I had Wedekind on my Cirrus, they are excellent, loved them.
Picture of Wedekind, http://aviation.derosaweb.net/wedekind/

At 16:08 05 March 2016, Tango Eight wrote:
>On Saturday, March 5, 2016 at 10:22:31 AM UTC-5, Mark628CA wrote:
>> My first Pegasus had L'Hotellier fittings with safety pins, and the

>small=

> inspection hole was barely large enough for my forearm, so everything
was

>=

>by feel. I hated it. My second Pegasus had the Wedekind sleeves, and are

>wo=

>rth every penny you might spend. Control hookup went from ten minutes and

>m=

>uch cursing to about ten seconds.
>
>
>
>Perhaps we aren't talking about the same kinds of clips. I hook up,

>safety=

> and physically test six connections on my ASW-20B with one hand, by
feel,

>=

>in about 90 seconds. Then I inspect by eye which takes about ten more.

>If=

> the clips are properly installed and tweaked for proper fit, they more
or

>=
>less fall into place. =20

>
>Here's a photo of a similar installation on a 20A.

>http://tinyurl.com/zdop=

>rgz
>
>Here are the clips before installation:
>http://tinyurl.com/zbjf6nh
>
>Those may be home made (but as far as I know you can also buy from Shempp

>H=

>irth).
>
>None of this is to suggest that Wedekind sleeves aren't up to the job or

>th=

>at installing them was a bad idea. I simply wanted to point out that

>there=

[Vernon Brown]

[t...@serkowski.com]

I assembled my ASW-20B more than 300 times when I owned it and used standard aircraft safety pins. Never dropped one and it never took me more than a minute or two. :-)

5Z

[kevi...@gmail.com]

Not yet. I got the parts and looked over everything carefully, but my IA has been tied up working on a power plane that has been rode hard and put up wet.

In looking things over, I have decided to do the Wedikind Sleeves on the ailerons, and will do the Unreling on the dive brakes. The Ailerons are easier on the DG-400, they unscrew, where the dive brakes are riveted and GLUED, making it very difficult if not impossible to get them apart without damage.

I checked on the price of getting new push rods and Holellier, but is was going to be ridiculous.

I will have two Wedekind sleeves for sale that will fit the DG-400 after I get mine installed.

Kevin

[Oscar-Hotel-Mike]

Vernon and 5Z,

The safety pins I was referring to look like this. http://aviation.derosaweb.net/wedekind/documentation/safetypin.jpg. While mine were tied to something to prevent loosing them in the belly of the beast, they were a bear for me to install just by feel (at least for my level of dexterity).

The safety pins that you show on your ASW-20's might be a different solution to the issue covered in the AD. http://ntl.bts.gov/lib/5000/5700/5722/ad97-08-06_r1.pdf. Never seen them before. Were they home made? From Schleicher? Someone else?

Also, maybe the location of your fittings are more accessible in the 20. On the DG's two of the fittings are easy to get to (through a small white hole while looking into darkness against bright sunlight) while two of the fittings are totally buried, invisible, and are difficult to get to at the best of times.

I raise a glass to my next ship that will have automatic hookups!

My $0.02

- John

[Vernon Brown]

John, your links don’t work, cant see the photos.
Vernon

At 16:17 06 March 2016, Oscar-Hotel-Mike wrote:
>Vernon and 5Z,
>
>The safety pins I was referring to look like this.

>http://aviation.derosaw=

>eb.net/wedekind/documentation/safetypin.jpg. While mine were tied to

>somet=

>hing to prevent loosing them in the belly of the beast, they were a bear

>fo=
>r me to install just by feel (at least for my level of dexterity). =20

>
>The safety pins that you show on your ASW-20's might be a different

>solutio=

>n to the issue covered in the AD.

>http://ntl.bts.gov/lib/5000/5700/5722/ad9=

>7-08-06_r1.pdf. Never seen them before. Were they home made? From

>Schleic=
>her? Someone else? =20

>
>Also, maybe the location of your fittings are more accessible in the 20.

>O=

>n the DG's two of the fittings are easy to get to (through a small white

>ho=

>le while looking into darkness against bright sunlight) while two of the

>fi=

>ttings are totally buried, invisible, and are difficult to get to at the

>be=
>st of times.
>
>I raise a glass to my next ship that will have automatic hookups! =20
>
>My $0.02
>
>- John=20
>
>=20
>

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

They both just worked for me.

Older Windows & Chrome browser.

[t...@serkowski.com]

This looks like what I used:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#90174a112/=11fc3wv

5Z

[ZP]

Kevin, I'll buy the other 2 sleeves from you (for a DG202).

Thanks.
-Dirk

[Tango Whisky]

Le dimanche 6 mars 2016 16:27:13 UTC+1, kevi...@gmail.com a écrit :
> On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 7:06:17 PM UTC-5, ZP wrote:
> > Kevin, checking in to see if you ever installed them. This is still something I'm considering.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > -Dirk
>
> Not yet. I got the parts and looked over everything carefully, but my IA has been tied up working on a power plane that has been rode hard and put up wet.
>
> In looking things over, I have decided to do the Wedikind Sleeves on the ailerons, and will do the Unreling on the dive brakes. The Ailerons are easier on the DG-400, they unscrew, where the dive brakes are riveted and GLUED, making it very difficult if not impossible to get them apart without damage.
>

The glue is Araldit. If you heat it up to around 100°C, it will come apart easily.

[ifee...@hotmail.com]

"Also, maybe the location of your fittings are more accessible in the 20. On the DG's two of the fittings are easy to get to (through a small white hole while looking into darkness against bright sunlight) while two of the fittings are totally buried, invisible, and are difficult to get to at the best of times."

The connections in the fuselage are easier to get to than the ones in the 200/202/400. The 15 I fly is even easier to seal with as there are only four connectors and the access hatch is larger. I find the plain pins, tethered to the control rods just fine and I assemble my ship for every day's flying. Those two hard to get at connectors on the DG would be enough for me to go to the trouble of using Wedekinds if I had one though. Automatic hookups are highly desirable though. Despite that, odds are my next ship will be a 17 with SIX L'Hotelliers in the fuselage!

[johnsin...@yahoo.com]

A word of caution concerning straight-through Hotellier fittings. I know of two pilots that thought their LS-6 ailerons had been properly connected, when in fact one aileron was not connected! It's near impossible to see the hotiellers......most 6 drivers rely on proper feel and listen for the click when they go together. First aileron goes OK, the problem arises when connecting the second aileron. The end of the Hotellier is shaped like a half hemisphere and I know two pilots that managed to miss the hole! They hook up the first aileron, then move the second aileron push-rod over to the hotelier and click it onto the half hemisphere not in the whole hemisphere where it belongs. Bringing the push-rod over to the fitting is done by reaching over the fuselage and raising the flap until the push-rod is close to the Hotellier fitting. To check the connection, they pulled the rod in the opposite direction, but didn't relax the up pressure they were holding on the flap............it felt good, they herd it click together, tried to pull it apart, so they screwed the LS safety sleeve all the way down, must be good to go.......WRONG!
Always do a positive control check!
JJ

[kevi...@gmail.com]

I went on their web site, but several glues. Any idea which one?

Also, is there any concern with changing temper on the aluminum push rods when heating?

Kevin

[Paul Villinski]

Kevin, I have the set-up you describe on my 400: Wedekind sleeves on ailerons, and the plastic sleeves on dive brakes. I got the safety sleeves from Pacific Aerosport. This works very well for me, and I wouldn't bother installing Wedekinds on the dive brakes.

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

If you're heating enough to change the temper, you're also cooking the glue and making really "not nice" colors/smells. Likely 100*C is short of changing the color of the paint (in short duration).
Best bet is to use a really good hobby heat gun, or a "middling" industrial heat gun.
No torches needed.......

[Vernon Brown]

Good advise from JJ, on one occasion when I had my Std Cirrus one control
connection jammed half way on a ball end when assembling, it would not go
fully on and it wouldn’t come off, may have been a foreign matter, dust
etc contaminating it, operating the control while applying pressure got it
off.
So I started to cleaned each ball end then lubricate with thin oil (WD40)
spray the oil on a finger then apply to the ball end before assembly, never
had any problem after that.

At 03:26 08 March 2016, Charlie M. UH & 002 owner/pilot wrote:
>On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 8:52:57 PM UTC-5, kevi...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 2:04:59 AM UTC-5, Tango Whisky wrote:
>> > Le dimanche 6 mars 2016 16:27:13 UTC+1, kevi...@gmail.com a

=E9crit=A0:

>> > > On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 7:06:17 PM UTC-5, ZP wrote:
>> > > > Kevin, checking in to see if you ever installed them. This is

>stil=
>l something I'm considering.
>> > > >=20
>> > > > Thanks.
>> > > > -Dirk
>> > >=20

>> > > Not yet. I got the parts and looked over everything carefully, but

>m=

>y IA has been tied up working on a power plane that has been rode hard

>and=
> put up wet. =20
>> > >=20

>> > > In looking things over, I have decided to do the Wedikind Sleeves
on

>=

>the ailerons, and will do the Unreling on the dive brakes. The Ailerons

>ar=

>e easier on the DG-400, they unscrew, where the dive brakes are riveted

>and=

> GLUED, making it very difficult if not impossible to get them apart

>withou=
>t damage.
>> > >=20
>> >=20
>> > The glue is Araldit. If you heat it up to around 100=B0C, it will
come
>=
>apart easily.
>>=20

>> I went on their web site, but several glues. Any idea which one?

>>=20

>> Also, is there any concern with changing temper on the aluminum push

>rods=
> when heating?
>>=20

>> Kevin
>
>If you're heating enough to change the temper, you're also cooking the

>glue=

> and making really "not nice" colors/smells. Likely 100*C is short of

>chang=

>ing the color of the paint (in short duration).
>Best bet is to use a really good hobby heat gun, or a "middling"

>industrial=

[Martin Gregorie]

On Mon, 07 Mar 2016 17:52:54 -0800, kevinsoar wrote:

> I went on their web site, but several glues. Any idea which one?
>

Disclaimer: the following is model aircraft buildig and general use
experience, not direct aviation use, so please bear that in mind. Also I
think the formulation may have changed a bit recently, since the
'standard' Araldite used to be yellowish when mixed and is now milky
white.

There are two common Araldite types.

- "Standard", which used to be known as '24 hour' Araldite comes in blue/
white coloured tubes, takes about 24 hours to fully cure at room temp,
and gives a really tough joint. It tends to soften if you heat it after
its cured. So much so, that if you know its going to be used at a higher
temp, you should let it cure at the expected use temp or a bit hotter.
This is the one I use for general engineering and anywhere I expect the
joint to be load bearing.

- "Rapid" comes in red/white tubes, is handlable after 30 mins and full
strength after 1-2 hours. I've never heated this after curing so have no
idea whether it heat softens because I normally use it for gluing wood
and plastic. Its sets hard rather than tough: the glue shatters if
overstressed. I only use it for low stress joints and/or for quick
repairs where speed of cure is more important than glue strength.

Bottom line: anywhere that you care about joint integrity, use Araldite
Standard in the blue/white tube set.

> Also, is there any concern with changing temper on the aluminum push
> rods when heating?
>

As others have said, if you heat Araldite epoxies hot enough for long
enough to affect the temper of metal its joining stuff, the epoxy bond
will be destroyed rather than softened. And, like them, I'd use a hobby-
style (900w) heat gun to soften an existing epoxy joint.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Tango Eight]

On Tuesday, March 8, 2016 at 5:17:58 AM UTC-5, Vernon Brown wrote:

> So I started to cleaned each ball end then lubricate with thin oil (WD40)

Way off track, but may I drop a tip here?

Vernon: WD-40 is fish oil. It's a great water dispersant (the "WD" in WD-40), but it has lousy oxidation stability and gets gummy. Use Break Free CLP.

best,

Evan Ludeman

[kevi...@gmail.com]

On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 10:11:53 PM UTC-5, Paul Villinski wrote:
> Kevin, I have the set-up you describe on my 400: Wedekind sleeves on ailerons, and the plastic sleeves on dive brakes. I got the safety sleeves from Pacific Aerosport. This works very well for me, and I wouldn't bother installing Wedekinds on the dive brakes.

Thanks Paul,

I was originally going to do them all, but as you know the dive brakes are more complicated, and I had decided to go the way you suggest.
I ordered the sleeves from DG direct and they were not packed well and destroyed upon arrival. They refunded me, and I will order from Pacific Aerosport now.

Thanks for the conformation on going this way.

Kevin
92

[Vernon Brown]

Thanks Evan, didn’t know WD40 was fish oil,
gumming up should not a problem if controls are cleaned before every
rigging, which I did, but useful info nerveless, which will be useful to
others.
Sold my Cirrus about 12 years ago, had an LS8/18 for a while, now I have an
LS6c 17.5 both auto connects.
Vernon

[Giaco]

I've always had great luck with Marvel Mystery Oil. It was the club solution for just about all spring lubing at CCSC and worked great even at super cold wave temps. FWIW

[BobW]

> I thought WD-40 was kerosene and perfume. It is a not a very good
> lubricant, it is great at displacing water.
>

You gotta love the internet...source of all the world's answers, some of them
even correct.

Some years ago I heard an interview of the then CEO of the creating company of
WD-40. His version pretty much matched what you'll find at:

http://brokensecrets.com/2010/06/11/wd-40-ingredients-and-uses/

though he was more explicit when explaining that to "protect the Atlas missile
from corrosion" meant its many, external, electrical connectors. Basically, it
was intended originally to discourage (by displacement if necessary) water
from those entering into those connectors while the missiles sat on the
launching pad, often for extended periods of time. Sadly, he didn't comment on
the source of the wonderful (IMHO!) scent...

Having occasionally used it when messing with sailplanes, makes the above
information - worth every cent you paid for it - acceptable content for this
newsgroup. :)

Bob - auto-connecting since 1981 - W.

[Tango Eight]

Dang, I thought I could sell that fish story :-).

Glad you enjoyed your chuckle, but don't use that garbage on an airplane!

best,
Evan

[johnsin...@yahoo.com]

When I attended A&P school, we were taught to use WD-40 to loosen old grease in rod-ends, pulleys, hinges, etc. There are other good aerosol lubricants, but there's nothing wrong with WD-40 !
Just say'n,
JJ