Glider cockpit size

[Steve Muhli]

Hi, New to this forum, thought I 'd pose a question..... I have a glider
rating
from years ago, I was wondering if anyone can suggest a list of gliders
that
are more "roomy" inside since I am 6'4" . I am planning on going to the
SSA
convention in Reno in 2018 to check out the new stuff....I've sat in an SZD

55, that's about it.... Thanks

[Steve Muhli]

[Michael Opitz]

At 03:26 25 November 2017, Steve Muhli wrote:
>Hi, New to this forum, thought I 'd pose a question..... I have a
glide

>rating
>from years ago, I was wondering if anyone can suggest a list of
glider

>that
>are more "roomy" inside since I am 6'4" . I am planning on going
to th

>SSA
>convention in Reno in 2018 to check out the new stuff....I've sat in
an SZ
>

>55, that's about it.... Thanks
>

Discus-2b and Ventus-2b should be comfortable up to ~6'5" with
a normal chute. Genesis is also roomy, but not many around or for
sale. A lot depends on your wallet, experience level, and what you
are trying to accomplish. Most of the older gliders were not built
with a 6'4" pilot in mind. The Discus-2b and Ventus-2b fuselages
were the first where Schempp-Hirth said that they wanted to design
a cockpit which almost anyone could get into comfortably. Other
manufacturers have gradually over time enlarged the insides of
their cockpits in order for taller people to fit as well.

Most glider seat belt attachment fittings are the limiting factors
for weight in the seat. For most, the max weight is 242 Lbs or
110 Kg.

You will probably get a bunch of other suggestions from this forum.

Good luck...

RO

[Craig Lowrie]

Try an HPH Shark... It probably has the most roomy cockpit out there...
6'4" will fit ok... Craig

[Bruce Hoult]

To be specific, the seal belt attachments are designed and certified to not fail in a 40 G deceleration with a 110 kg person.

If you weigh 120 kg (265 lb) then try to keep your crashes down to 36.7 G.

No one ever mentions: the back seats of two seat gliders are often very roomy, at least side to side and maybe for torso length. They are not necessarily so great for legroom.

[Michael Opitz]

>> Most glider seat belt attachment fittings are the limiting factors
>> for weight in the seat. For most, the max weight is 242 Lbs or
>> 110 Kg.
>
>To be specific, the seal belt attachments are designed and certified to
not
>fail in a 40 G deceleration with a 110 kg person.
>
>If you weigh 120 kg (265 lb) then try to keep your crashes down to
36.7 G.

In the USA, insurance gets to be a problem in that area. If one
intentionally flies the aircraft over a certain placard/handbook limit,
and has an accident, then this becomes a way for the insurance
company to deny payments.

RO

[Bruce Hoult]

Legally, only if it's the cause of the accident.

[Tim Newport-Peace]

A bit surprised that no-one has mentioned CG Limits or AUW.

Delibrately going outside either of these limits could (in UK/European Law
anyway) be 'endangering an aircraft', for which you could be prosecuted,
regardless of any accident.

Lots of Wriggle-Room for an insurer here.

[OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

I think that this subject has come up a few times on RAS so it may pay to search the archives. Here is one > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.aviation.soaring/tall$20pilot%7Csort:date/rec.aviation.soaring/ZD-7HqoBYTQ/l0SLOYEACAAJ.

The one glider family that I know fits taller pilots is the DG line. Several DG's are for sale right now on the http://glidersource.com web site. Also, I have a tall pilot friend that fits comfortably in his Schleicher ASW-24 with the seat back removed, which I assume means that other ASW, ASH, etc, gliders would fit the bill.

Best of luck. Get back in the air!

John OHM Ω

[Echo]

6'5" 230lb. ASW20 is the best performance on a budget that I fit in. I have my seat back out and fits very well. LS6 and ASW27 were a bit tight for anything over an hour flight.

E

[Michael Opitz]

>Also, I have a tall pilot friend that fits comfortably in his Schleicher
>ASW-24 with the seat back removed, which I assume means that
other ASW, ASH,
>etc, gliders would fit the bill.

I am 6'2" and had one of the first (SN #8?) ASW-24's. I was so
crammed in (with the seat back removed) that I was afraid to make
an off-field landing in fear of putting my head through the canopy.
I complained to Gerhard Waibel about this, so he told me that in the
newer ones he had moved the cockpit bulkhead back about 4 cm, and
this would fix the problem. He told me that my old -24 could not be
modified, so I should just buy a new one - which I did. (That was
around ~1990) The new one was somewhat better, but I was still
uncomfortable even with the seat back removed. I understand that
Chip Bearden got a much later model which had the cockpit modified
once again, so that he can fit comfortably. Bottom line = Don't
assume all ASW-24 cockpits are the same size. They aren't. I have
heard that later ASW-ASG models have been improved in this regard.
Again, the newer ships will probably fit you better.

Try it on before you buy it.....

RO

[jfitch]

I am 6'4" and don't fit in an ASW27. But I fit fine in an ASH26, which has a cockpit about 4" longer. I also fit in an JS1, since the fuselage is an exact copy of the ASH26. An ASH31 shares the fuselage with the 26, so I fit in that as well. I have yet to sit in a Ventus that I could fit comfortably in but there are many variants and I haven't sat in all of them. I have yet to sit in a two seat that really had enough legroom front or rear (Grob 103, ASK21, DuoDiscus, ASW32 among them).

[JS]

A friend complained about cockpit room in his ASH26E... Thought he was crazy!
Turned out to be a poorly designed parachute.
Many gliders you think you can't fit in are better with the right parachute.
A chair parachute may work for you in an LS4 but not an LS6. National Parachute seems to make the best fit for Schempps.
Your mileage may vary from others, so check it out before buying.
Jim

[Andreas Maurer]

On Sat, 25 Nov 2017 08:38:24 -0800 (PST), jfitch <jfi...@flash.net>
wrote:

>I am 6'4" and don't fit in an ASW27.

6'7" and I fit halfways comfortably into the 27.

[jfitch]

On Saturday, November 25, 2017 at 11:38:40 AM UTC-8, Andreas Maurer wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Nov 2017 08:38:24 -0800 (PST),
>
>

> >I am 6'4" and don't fit in an ASW27.
>
> 6'7" and I fit halfways comfortably into the 27.

I actually don't know how comfortable it would be to fly in, as I cannot get the canopy closed. The panel hits my knees and the plexi hits the top of my head about the same time, but still needs to close about 3 inches to get it latched. I have long legs and a short torso, not sure how this affects things.

[Michael Opitz]

At 00:35 26 November 2017, jfitch wrote:
>On Saturday, November 25, 2017 at 11:38:40 AM UTC-8, Andreas
Maurer wrote:

>> On Sat, 25 Nov 2017 08:38:24 -0800 (PST),=20
>>=20
>>=20

>> >I am 6'4" and don't fit in an ASW27.

>>=20

>> 6'7" and I fit halfways comfortably into the 27.
>
>I actually don't know how comfortable it would be to fly in, as I
cannot

>ge=

>t the canopy closed. The panel hits my knees and the plexi hits the
top of

>=

>my head about the same time, but still needs to close about 3
inches to

>get=

> it latched. I have long legs and a short torso, not sure how this
affects

>=
>things.
>
It could be an "early vs later model" issue like I had with the
ASW-24s. I sold my last -24 in 1999 in order to switch to the
much more comfortable Discus-2b. I remember the Schleicher
dealer telling me at the time that Schleicher had made more
cockpit changes in the interim, and that I'd be more comfortable
if I got another new one. I think he may have mentioned the
ASW-27 as well in that statement, but it was a long time ago...
It may be worth looking into, especially if one can find the
production serial number when the design changed.


Again, try it before you buy it....

RO

[JS]

And what one person thinks as tight, another is OK with.
I (6' 0" / 1.83m) have flown the early model ASW24 that still has "RO" on the tail and found it very comfy. Have not flown ASW24B or E to compare.
Jim

[Dave Nadler]

On Saturday, November 25, 2017 at 8:15:07 PM UTC-5, Michael Opitz wrote:
> Again, try it before you buy it....

Right, also note early '27 cockpit was similarly quite different
from later production...

[chip.b...@gmail.com]

Per RO, first 32 or 36 SNs of ASW 24 had smaller cockpits. Mine later number had a larger cockpit and was also set up at the factory with pedals moved forward, no seat back, and a different instrument panel with higher knee holes. I believe there was at least one other even larger cockpit version later in production.

The parachute makes a huge difference (for me, very thin behind the shoulders, thick in the lumbar region: Softie Wedge model, packed properly) as does the ratio of torso to leg length.

Some types you can rule out (unless, like the late Rick Walters, you are willing to fly with a headrest parachute). But others you just have to try on.

Chip Bearden

[Michael Opitz]

At 01:37 26 November 2017, JS wrote:
>And what one person thinks as tight, another is OK with.
>I (6' 0" / 1.83m) have flown the early model ASW24 that still has
"RO" on
>the tail and found it very comfy. Have not flown ASW24B or E to
compare.
>Jim

Nice try Jim, but I believe you flew RO2 which was my second
ASW-24, which already had the bulkhead moved 4 cm back. (My
original -24 had the tail # switched to 2HI.) Like I said, the
second one was better than the original, but was still tight for me,
especially on long flights.

RO

[JS]

Thought I was bad, having owned three ASW27s!
Anyone feeling a bit cramped in the 27 should look on the Yahoo ASW27 newsgroup for my seat back modification giving additional recline when using the rearward seat position.
Jim

[Michael Opitz]

At 19:38 25 November 2017, Andreas Maurer wrote:
>On Sat, 25 Nov 2017 08:38:24 -0800 (PST), jfitch

>wrote:
>
>
>>I am 6'4" and don't fit in an ASW27.
>
>6'7" and I fit halfways comfortably into the 27.
>

Andreas,

Are you really 2.007 meters tall, or is there maybe a math error?

[albs]

I am 6.4 with long torso and large shoulders. I have either flown or just sat in a handful of single seaters over the years and while I’ve never had problems with leg room, closing the canopy was indeed an issue on most single seat gliders. Pilots of our height might have different opinions as again it’s the leg/torso proportion and the width of your shoulders that matters, not just how tall you are. Also parachute makes a difference; for example softie makes a 16” wide version that helps a little with headroom as it is slightly less thick. You will have no issue with two seaters.
In summary:
LS4 - huge cockpit, no issue very comfortable.
ASG29, Ventus 2b, Discus 2a - impossible, no problem with the legs, but there was no way I could close the canopy and it was tight on shoulders
JS1 - very comfortable on legs, ok on shoulders, however I could not close the canopy
Discus 2b, 2c 18m - I could fit, close the canopy and flew these a handful of times. It was getting uncomfortable though to fly more than a couple hrs.
ASH26 /31 - I did not fly these gliders, just sat in the cockpit. Very comfortable, no prob with legs/feet and could close the canopy. I could “feel” though the fusolage slightly pushing on my shoulders.
HpH Shark - as above, however with slightly more room in the shoulders area. Very comfortable; this is the glider I ended up owning (was looking for a 18m SLMG)

Going to RENO 2018 is obviously a great idea as you will be able to sit and feel the cockpit of all these wonderful machines. If you are in Europe perhaps in April you should go to AERO 2018 and then visit a couple of the German and Eastern European manufacturers. Lastly, a treat of a lifetime is to fly at CNVV in France where you can sit in and try most of the best performing gliders in the market.

Cheers,
Alberto

[K m]

O
>
> Thought I was bad, having owned three ASW27s!
> Anyone feeling a bit cramped in the 27 should look on the Yahoo ASW27 newsgroup for my seat back modification giving additional recline when using the rearward seat position.
> Jim

Jim ,
Did you ever try a 28 panel in your 27? I have not flown with this mod but I sat in one once and the difference in leg room was noticeable.
Kirk

[Branko Stojkovic]

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned these budget gliders, but I'm 6'4", slim with long legs, and I fit perfectly inside Jantar Standard 2 and 3, Ok with special cushions in Russia AC-5M, well inside Baby Grob and Blanik L33. DG-100, DG-300 (and DG-808) are also great for me. Standard Cirrus is OK, but needs a slim parachute and little mod to the instrument panel. Open Cirrus is similar.

Branko

[JS]

A friend let me have a go in his ASW28 at Ely. Since the standard 27/29 panel is fine for me, don't remember the panel as much as the lack of aileron at the start of the takeoff roll!
But the 28 goes like mad when the stick is pushed forward.
That panel is a factory option in ASW27/G29, but the instrument panel housing must be modified to retrofit one.
Jim

[raxy...@gmail.com]

Even for smaller pilots, current cockpits are usually too snug.

I'm normal build and 5'10" so I have no trouble fitting in my Ventus 2cM, and its comfortable, but I can't move much and little stowage space. I always have more 'stuff' than places to stow it where I can reach it. There is space behind the backrest, but I can't reach things there. Things stuffed down the cockpit sides tend to become invisible and unreachable in flight especially since arm movement is very restricted. The side pockets are narrow and already filled. I typically fly with 'stuff' lying on my chest (headset, map, sunglasses, cellphone, peebag, checklists, snacks).

Another comment: I once developed cramp in flight. It was extremely painful since I could not move in a way to relieve it.

[Dan Marotta]

I recall carrying a back scratcher in the cockpit of my LS-6a for when
an ankle got itchy.

--
Dan, 5J

[jfitch]

You could always get a cabin class glider like the Waco CG-4A. It could even be customized with a bathroom in back and a small galley for snacks. And maybe a dirt bike in case you have to land out in the boonies. Better tell the Pawnee pilot you want at least 70 on tow though.

[Dan Marotta]

Not a dirt bike, a Polaris Ranger, so you can self-retrieve.

--
Dan, 5J

[lharri...@gmail.com]

Best bet's for large pilots are

Grob-102

DG-100, 101, 300

[Bruce Hoult]

Club Libelle, 150 kg between empty weight and gross. Hornet, the same but with 100 kg of water as well. Both are roomy. PW5 is roomy, but only 110 kg between empty and gross.

[markde...@gmail.com]

Genesis

[Dave Nadler]

On Wednesday, December 20, 2017 at 11:13:59 AM UTC-5, markde...@gmail.com wrote:
> Genesis

Yup, Gigantic cockpit, easy to fly.

[Bob Kuykendall]

On Friday, November 24, 2017 at 7:30:09 PM UTC-8, Steve Muhli wrote:
> I am planning on going to the SSA convention in Reno in 2018
> to check out the new stuff...

We'll have a customer's HP-24 there, you can try it on for size. Also, it's EAB, so we can easily customize to suit.

--Bob K.

[Bob Salvo]

As long as your shoe size doesn't exceed 12.

RS

[ri...@metlogix.com]

On Friday, November 24, 2017 at 10:30:09 PM UTC-5, Steve Muhli wrote:
> Hi, New to this forum, thought I 'd pose a question..... I have a glider
> rating
> from years ago, I was wondering if anyone can suggest a list of gliders
> that

> are more "roomy" inside since I am 6'4" . I am planning on going to the
> SSA

> convention in Reno in 2018 to check out the new stuff....I've sat in an SZD
>
> 55, that's about it.... Thanks

HPH 304, I am 6' 3" and with the seat back out was just right. If at all posable try one out with a selection of chutes, the one I ended up with was not the one I expected. Flew it for 17 years and loved it. Recently made a major upgrade, and am now flying an ASH-31. It is the first glider that I have flown where I could put the pedals too far forward to reach. So lots of leg room, not as much shoulder room, but not too tight (in the summer).

RR

[reda...@elay.media.pl]

I had exact same problem. I ‘tried’ on many gliders (I am 180). In szd-55 I could not close the canopy.
I fit comfortably in dg-300 (which I ended up buying) and I fit less comfortably in LS-4.

Aside from the size dg-300 is a dream...

S