Ilec vs Cambridge vs others
Sharyn333
Would like to buy current stuff with GPS/logging abilities...Any thoughts on
the capabilities/features in comparing Ilec with Cambridge (or others) would be
helpful. Also, any ideas on the "perfect panel" would be useful too, even if
it turns out I can't really get all of the items suggested. thanks, Sharyn
PS: Please respond to Shar...@aol.com
Mike Schuster
Both Ilec and Cambridge are very good and you wouldn't
go wrong with either. There are pluses and minuses with
each and so it depends on what is most important to you.
The best thing to do is to try them all and find what you
like the most.
I use some of both in my Discus. An Ilec SB-8 along with
an Ilec ASR works as my averager, speed to fly and final
glide computer. I have a separate Ilec SB-9 which is my
fast vario. In addition, I use a Cambridge GPS logger and
display for tasks and navigation. The Cambridge is
connected to the Ilec and supplied GPS data for final
glide and wind speed calculations.
This Ilec system is not the latest design. But I prefer it
because I like the analog display. I think analog is much
easier to read than digital LCD. Also, the Ilec display and
its audio output is excellent in all respects, very responsive
and very informative. In these respect if Ilec is not the
best on the market, it is surely one of the best.
But there are two disadvantages of this setup. First, the
vario numerical output under reads at altitude by the
same factor that your airspeed under reads groundspeed
in still air. This is annoying if you are exchanging climb rates
over the radio with other pilots who use other computers.
Secondly, this setup does not do final glides around a
turnpoint automatically. The more modern systems, both
the newer Ilec as well as the full Cambridge system will do
this.
One more thing. I prefer airspeed and fast vario in the
top row of a panel. Everything else is less important
safety-wise and goes below.
Mike Schuster
Redwood City, CA
Sharyn333 wrote in message <19991027171319...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
John M. Morgan
> I am looking to buy instruments for cross-country/racing use in a Discus.
> Would like to buy current stuff with GPS/logging abilities...Any thoughts
on
> the capabilities/features in comparing Ilec with Cambridge (or others)
would be
> helpful. Also, any ideas on the "perfect panel" would be useful too, even
if
> it turns out I can't really get all of the items suggested. thanks,
Sharyn
> PS: Please respond to Shar...@aol.com
Cambridge has a demo L-NAV on their website. I have the LNAV and GPS-25 in
my Stemme and recently installed a MAC G-7 stick grip which allows all
functions of the LNAV to be addressed from the stick. Neat and an easy and
inexpensive addition (less than $100). Being inexperienced, I can't speak to
the comparative features of Cambridge vs IIlec. However, if service and
responsiveness to customers is a concern, Cambridge is excellent. I had a
minor problem with my LNAV's analog G-meter (damaged in shipping and not
their fault), they upgraded it to their new solid state G-meter free. Nice
people.
bumper
Marc Ramsey
> Any thoughts on optimum cost effective instrumentation
> would really be appreciated. I struggle with the idea of
> doubling my investment in my aircraft to get the latest
> instrumentation, but am not averse to spending a couple
> thousand dollars for the right gear. I currently use
> basic electric audio vario, mechanical vario and basic GPS.
I have been very happy with the Borgelt B40 vario I have in
my DG303, it's fast and smooth, with very pleasant audio
tones (selectable for up/down or up only). For a very basic
setup, I know of no better way to go. I had a B50 in one of
my past ships, it's equally nice, and adds speed to fly
and a digital averager display. Adding a B57 to the B50
allows interfacing a GPS for final glide calculation, but
the cost (and panel space) start getting a bit out of hand.
The LX160 looks like a nice, reasonably priced unit, with
vario, audio, speed to fly, GPS interface, and final glide
in two 57mm slots. Unfortunately, I haven't used one, nor
do I know anyone who has.
The Palm-NAV and WinPilot are also possibilities, you'll
need to find a place to mount the computer, and a vario
and speed to fly (if you use it) will still be required.
--
_____________________________
Marc Ramsey, ma...@ranlog.com
http://www.ranlog.com/ramsey/
Gapagod
>each a
yeah, plusses when you're going up and minuses when you're going down!
Jim Husain
soon to be SZD 48-3 owner
gap...@aol.com
Bruce & Joanne Friesen
different problem. For various reasons that may make sense only to me,
I insist on flying serious cross country (and some sport class contests)
with a 37 year old wooden glider - a Standard Austria "S" model.
Any thoughts on optimum cost effective instrumentation would really be
appreciated. I struggle with the idea of doubling my investment in my
aircraft to get the latest instrumentation, but am not averse to
spending a couple thousand dollars for the right gear. I currently use
basic electric audio vario, mechanical vario and basic GPS.
Thanks muchly in advance.
Bruce Friesen
Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada
Martin
you need, has a GPS logger and regular software updates. It is of course,
rather expensive, but it is German so it may be relative cheap for
Americans.
What you don't want is stuff from Filser. Lousy user interface, not reliable
and no service.
cheers
Sharyn333 <shar...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991027171319...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
uru...@mail.reach.net
owner of a Cambridge system. I would like you to look at the LX 160,
It may be just the ticket for you. I installed it for a friend of mine
and test flew it. It could be what you want for your type of glider and
flying. Also the Win Pilot may be a good choice.
The service of Filser may not be up to par. If you are not happy with
the product and service send it back. (Tim Mara of Wings and Wheel is
helpful but he does not service the product)
www.winpilot.com
www.wingsandwheels.com (bottom of page 18)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Gliderscum
Ball GC99 soaring flight computer, suitable for hang gliders, para sailers, and
sailplanes. Includes padded carry case, hoses, computer DL cable, manual,
car and wall charger, thigh mount with strap. Unit purchased new in March 99.
Has polars for SGS 1-36 and Centrair 101A installed. Room for 6 more polars!
All in one soaring flight instrument, does what the big guys do for $1000's
less.
See Soaring magazine June 99 or http://www.ballvarios.com for detailed info.
$950.00 including shipping
Mark Navarre Glide...@aol.com
Doug
> > would really be appreciated. I struggle with the idea of
> > doubling my investment in my aircraft to get the latest
> > instrumentation, but am not averse to spending a couple
> > thousand dollars for the right gear. I currently use
> > basic electric audio vario, mechanical vario and basic GPS.
>
> my DG303, it's fast and smooth, with very pleasant audio
> tones (selectable for up/down or up only). For a very basic
> setup, I know of no better way to go. I had a B50 in one of
> my past ships, it's equally nice, and adds speed to fly
> and a digital averager display. Adding a B57 to the B50
> allows interfacing a GPS for final glide calculation, but
> the cost (and panel space) start getting a bit out of hand.
>
> The LX160 looks like a nice, reasonably priced unit, with
> vario, audio, speed to fly, GPS interface, and final glide
> in two 57mm slots. Unfortunately, I haven't used one, nor
> do I know anyone who has.
>
> The Palm-NAV and WinPilot are also possibilities, you'll
> need to find a place to mount the computer, and a vario
> and speed to fly (if you use it) will still be required.
>
> --
> _____________________________
> Marc Ramsey, ma...@ranlog.com
> http://www.ranlog.com/ramsey/
I think that http://www.winpilot.com is worth a hard look. In
particular, the combination of WinPilot Pro plus a Borgelt B50 and a
Volkslogger makes a very powerful combination.
Best regards,
Doug
ina...@tcmail.frco.com
I fly a Ventus B with the standard instruments, plus an audio vario
with a push/pull (vintage Cambridge CNAV-50).
I also have a flight computer and GPS system, total cost today would be
about $550 to $650. It does speed to fly, final glide around a
turnpoint, flight logging, and soon to have thermalling statistics.
Breakdown:
- Garmin II+ GPS: ~ $250
- Windows CE device: $180 to $270 for B&W display
- Garmin cable from gpscables.com $22
- Windows CE cable: $30
- CEGlide: $80
- IGCView: FREE
- Waypoint+: FREE
-------------------------------------------------
Total: $562 to $652
You don't have to double the price of your ship with a few key pieces
of hardware. I wear a kneeboard, but others go the canopy mount way.
http://www.ccsi.com/~inadas/index.htm
Ian
______________________________________________________________________
I also would appreciate some advice, but am struggling with a rather
different problem. For various reasons that may make sense only to me,
I insist on flying serious cross country (and some sport class contests)
with a 37 year old wooden glider - a Standard Austria "S" model.
Any thoughts on optimum cost effective instrumentation would really be
appreciated. I struggle with the idea of doubling my investment in my
aircraft to get the latest instrumentation, but am not averse to
spending a couple thousand dollars for the right gear. I currently use
basic electric audio vario, mechanical vario and basic GPS.
Marc Ramsey
FWIW, the LX 160 is not manufactured or marketed by Filser, it
is in fact a product of a Slovenian company, LX Navigation. The
Colibri data logger is also one of their products. I don't know
the details of the relationships, but LX Navigation also designed
and/or manufactures some of the GPS data loggers and glide
computers sold by Filser and SDI.
They have a web page at:
http://members.xoom.com/lxnav/
Ray L.
What is IGCview and where can I learn more about it?
Thanks,
Ray Lovinggood, Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Luke Dodd
MNAV was a great vario final glide computer simple and uncluttered, if
you can find one second hand it is worth considering. The SN10 is a
very powerful flight computer vario and is a significant step up from
an LNAV. However instrumentation such as this is nice to have and
confers some benefits for competition, but all you need to fly cross
country is a map, a vario and a plastic final glide calculator for $20.
You will learn the true art of X-country soaring with these simple
tools.
Bert Willing
Luke Dodd wrote:
> an LNAV. However instrumentation such as this is nice to have and
> confers some benefits for competition, but all you need to fly cross
> country is a map, a vario and a plastic final glide calculator for $20.
> You will learn the true art of X-country soaring with these simple
> tools.
That's a bit of exaggerated, and a good instrument gives you far more time to
look out of the window.
However, I always do carry those items you describe with me - I'm sure that on
the day when I ommit them, those electrons will mess up in their tiny cables...
--
Bert Willing
-----------
Caproni Calif A21S D-6600
Come fly at La Motte du Caire in the French Alps:
http://www.decollage.org/la_motte/
Martin
> confers some benefits for competition, but all you need to fly cross
Some benefits??????????????
In my humble opinion, GPS navigation & loggers means a revolution X-country
flying. Just consider the elimination of "home advantage" in international
competitions (you don't need to recognise the waypoints anymore). The safety
is increased dramaticly thanks to "turn when you hear beep" functionality".
And violation of control zones is eliminated.
Martin
ina...@tcmail.frco.com
IGCView can be downloaded from
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/1850/igcview/
There are a few idiosyncracies with it. Install it in a root
directory (I have it at c:\). Have a file that you have downloaded
from a GPS in Gardown format. If you don't have one, I can mail
you one. You also have to input the turnpoints, because the only
way I've found to see the track is to zoom into the route, which is
a menu item.
I am not sure if the stats are correct, but the trace is, and you
can see when you stopped for thermals because the glider icon starts
spinning around.
Ian
____________________________________________________
Ray L. <rdlovinggo...@transystems.com.invalid> wrote:
Ian,
What is IGCview and where can I learn more about it?
Thanks,
Ray Lovinggood, Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
Shaber CJ
and seems to be the most popular in the US. The SN10 is much more powerful,
than the LNAV. I currently have two gliders and one has an LNAV whcih I am
going to replace with a SN10.
Rich Carr
: (you don't need to recognise the waypoints anymore).
: "turn when you hear beep" functionality".
Dang, I had no idea what I was missing.
- Rich Carr
Alan & Kathryn O'Regan
Martin <as...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:r2cS3.372$Y44.3724@client...
>
> . . . . .the elimination of "home advantage" in international
> competitions (you don't need to recognise the waypoints anymore).
Actually, not true. The real benefit is that you don't need to recognise
the TRACK (also, you spend more time not needing to recognise 'track'). It
is still very useful to recognise the turnpoint to avoid those embarrassing
unnecessary turns for lift close the turnpoint.
Also, there are a lot more factors (other than recognising turnpoints) that
influence 'home advantage'. Mafikeng in 2001 will be the first 'real'
flat-land WGC for a number of years - win at Mafikeng, and you are a
Champions of Champions!
. . . but I'm not biased . . . The cups are being polished, come 'n get 'em!
a
Ernst W. Schneider
comparison to what it offers. I'd say an SN10 offers a much better price %
value
Ernie (had LNAV -> go SN10 now)
Snead1 <sne...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991029235544...@ng-fc1.aol.com...
> I put a Cambridge L-Nav and GPS data logger in my PW-5, They added quite
a bit
> to the cost of the glider but I have enjoyed them both. The GPS and
logger is
> more important than the L-Nav
Al
In the ASW22 wanted one of the best flight computer set ups I could lay my
hands on, I came up with the panel which can be seen here.
http://www.silentflight.com/P0003059.JPG
Ok here goes.
The S-Nav (of L-Nav) gave me audio and TE final glide around a turnpoint
when driven by the GPS NAV.
The Lowrance Airmap GPS is a back GPS unit + gives me moving map and
airspace information.
The Lowrance I also used to mark significant lift and for plot.
The GPS NAV drives the SNAV and the Palm Nav / Winpilot. software on the
Casio CE computer.
The Casio gives me back up to the Lowrance display as well as wind and
course information as well as task.
The whole system I made double redundant with the 2 switches on the top
right of the panel. These switches let me drive either flight computer from
either GPS unit. so if the main batteries died I could switch to the
lowrance and Winpilot for an independent battery powered glide computer.
I forgot to mention the Cambridge remote stick controller. This was the
best thing I put in the plane!! It allows you to page through the menus on
the cambridge without reaching up for the panel. In a flapped ship its
great, you pull up into a thermal, pull back the flap and use your thumb to
page over to the climb page information on the S-NAV.
Its also great to make jokes about drink dispensers on the ramp before
flight.
you with me so far?
Now the Analogue stuff..
My main vario is the Sage SV. this is the best mechanical vario (sage in
general I would have loved a CVA)
and is the instrument I use to fly the plane in thermals this works great
when using the cambrigde for audio.
So if everything battery powered looses power I still have enough to get me
home!
Oh and the compass.... that incase the plastic jesus stopped pointing
towards Minden.
Any Questions?
Moral of the tale mix and match components to suit your needs.
Snead1
Luke Dodd
wrote:
> > an LNAV. However instrumentation such as this is nice to have and
> > confers some benefits for competition, but all you need to fly
> cross
> Some benefits??????????????
> In my humble opinion, GPS navigation & loggers means a revolution
> X-country
> international
> competitions (you don't need to recognise the waypoints anymore).
> is increased dramaticly thanks to "turn when you hear beep"
> functionality".
> And violation of control zones is eliminated.
> Martin
I am curious to know how a GPS eliminates hometown advantage. Also You
don't need to visually recognise waypoints so do you just stare at the
gps as you navigate to a busy turnpoint. Ceratinly flying in busy
airspace is eased with a GPS and moving Map display, and turnpoint
confirmation is great to have, but not essential.
Martin
Al <acro...@www.silentflight.com> wrote in message
news:s1l3ks...@news.supernews.com...
> Ok you guys dragged in here..
>
> In the ASW22 wanted one of the best flight computer set ups I could lay my
> hands on, I came up with the panel which can be seen here.
> http://www.silentflight.com/P0003059.JPG
>
looks great, but I would fly a little bit faster with -5 on the vario :-)
Martin
Larry Goddard
> I am curious to know how a GPS eliminates hometown advantage.
If you have been flying competition or cross country in an area for some time,
you will know by look and feel pretty much where you are in the task area...
relieving you of the biggest question in navigating: "Where the ???? am I?" The
GPS does the same thing for the pilot new to the area. The "home" advantage has
been leveled by both pilots knowing where they are within the task area.
> Also You
> don't need to visually recognise waypoints so do you just stare at the
> gps as you navigate to a busy turnpoint.
This has not been my experience. I use the gps direction/track/speed just like
I do the altimeter, airspeed, compass, etc. I glance at it occasionally.
Actually, using the gps keeps more of my attention OUTSIDE the glider.. For
instance, when I am flying to a turnpoint, I am actually only generally flying
the direction of the "arrow". I am actually flying 'externally', looking for
clouds, lift sources, etc. in the general direction of the turnpoint... trying
to devise a strategy that will take me appropriately staged near the turnpoint.
It is therefore incumbent for me to visually "locate" the turnpoint when I am
still 10-20 miles away ( or more if possible) so I can decide by looking at the
sky and the ground (and other gliders up ahead) how I am going to attempt to
make the turnpoint. When I am closer, the gps relieves me of having to be
looking at the ground, putting my glider in unusual gyrations so I can see if it
is time to start my photo turn, etc. I am free, with an occasional glance at
the gps direction/distance indicator, to look out for other traffic at my level,
in my space... where it really matters.
> Certianly flying in busy
> airspace is eased with a GPS and moving Map display, and turnpoint
> confirmation is great to have, but not essential.
Hmmm? I don't understand this at all. Other than a good start and finish, the
only important thing to have is confirmation that you have made the
turnpoint(s). That is THE reason for all of this: cameras, photo sectors,
turnpoint radii, dataloggers, evaluation software, etc.
Larry Goddard
"01" USA
Al
>
Had a great Sunday afternoon this weekend flying acro.
What a riot 5000ft tow to 0 in 10mins total gratuitous waste of height!!
Regards
Al.
Bert Willing
Al wrote:
> >
> Had a great Sunday afternoon this weekend flying acro.
> What a riot 5000ft tow to 0 in 10mins total gratuitous waste of height!!
What I didn't understand, Al:
Why has that Plastic Jesus such a silliy grin on his face, and why do you sit
with your back to the direction of flight?!
Al
> What I didn't understand, Al:
> Why has that Plastic Jesus such a silliy grin on his face, and why do you
sit
> with your back to the direction of flight?!
I can rub my belly and tap my head at the same time as well you know!!