JUNIOR vs SMYK ( SZD-51 vs PW-5) ...?
Wasyl_P
Who can tell something about simillars and differences in a flight?
Ernie Schneider
find the PW5 is suitable from a first solo to all the gold badge flights and
having fun doing this while the Junior is a safe glider but for sure not
teaching you to SOAR. Just check how many 500 km + flights have been flown
in the Junior and how many in the PW5.
just my 2 cts
cheers
Ernie
"Wasyl_P" <Wasyl_P@Wasyl_P.pl> wrote in message
news:aiepa9$sq6$1...@news.tpi.pl...
Janusz Kesik
At least in Poland, in other countries not, but why? Because one who wants
to fly 500, goes straight for something like LS-4 or beetter, and don't mind
to tense the brain to get it in Junior. In case of PW-5 it's the only type
in it's class, so Your comparison has no sense.
Regards,
--
Janusz Kesik
Aeroclub Czestochowa, Poland
jant...@interia.pl
http://www.soaring.enter.net.pl
Al
The whole worldclass concept appears to have fallen apart just look at the
amount of people with a PW5 rig trying to sell them.
The only reason there are more 500k's in a PW5 than a Junior is as Janusz
points out, they are the only ship in their class.
Now doing a 500K in a PW5 is a great feat I must say 500k in a 1-26 is even
better.
I would equate a Junior to the Baby Grob (102) both have similar performance
and similar function. They are post solo trainer not designed for one
design racing.
Now in the 13m class of ship I would rather have an AC35M or a Salto or even
an SZD59 before I even thought about pay good hard earnt money on a PW5.
The interesting point in the SZD59 at 13M had a better glide than a PW5 a
higher VNE and you could fly loops and acro till you puked in it. It also
made a great wave XC machine.
Al
"Janusz Kesik" <jant...@interia.pl> wrote in message
news:aige8l$loe$1...@news.tpi.pl...
jwren
> Lets face PW5's suck.
>
> The whole worldclass concept appears to have fallen apart just look at the
> amount of people with a PW5 rig trying to sell them.
Hmm, with your fuzzy logic then LS4's must suck also.
There are 70+ PW5's in the US, two for sale in Soaring.
My guess is there are far less LS4's in this country and 7 of that fleet are
on the block.
PW5's have held their own on price recently, the LS4 is worth far less than
a few years ago.
I owned and raced a 4a for seven years and loved it. Went on to a PW5 for 5
years and had a great time with it. Sold the 5 for a PW6 and plan to share
the fun. In fact if I would stop jabbering with you I can get it out to the
field and take my first flight in it today.
jw
Al
"jwren" <gli...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:6MU29.238253$Wt3.214840@rwcrnsc53...
>
> > Lets face PW5's suck.
> >
> > The whole worldclass concept appears to have fallen apart just look at
the
> > amount of people with a PW5 rig trying to sell them.
>
> Hmm, with your fuzzy logic then LS4's must suck also.
No LS4's are a much finer sailplane than any PW5.
>
> There are 70+ PW5's in the US, two for sale in Soaring.
yeah and 2 AC4's, funny though no ASW22's and only 1 Nimbus 4. Guess
open class is booming too according to your logic.
>
> My guess is there are far less LS4's in this country and 7 of that fleet
are
> on the block.
>
> PW5's have held their own on price recently, the LS4 is worth far less
than
> a few years ago.
PW5's have been advertised for high prices are any selling at that? I guess
you call a $9000 1-26 a bargin then.
>
> I owned and raced a 4a for seven years and loved it. Went on to a PW5 for
5
> years and had a great time with it. Sold the 5 for a PW6 and plan to share
> the fun. In fact if I would stop jabbering with you I can get it out to
the
> field and take my first flight in it today.
And go 50Km... woo hoo... life in the fast lane what a rush.
Each to their own, I still and have always stood by my belief that PW5's
suck.
Now you can show another person with your PW6 what a light wieght ugly
glider for 2 can do.
Enjoy sharing your low performance dream.
Al
jwren
> Now you can show another person with your PW6 what a light wieght ugly
> glider for 2 can do.
Like you say, each to their own.
No time to chat. It looks like a good day and I want to get to the field and
get my worthless low performance glider out.
cernezzi
excellent handling, very low thermalling speeds, excellent comfort. But
also very low Xcountry speeds.
The PW5 is the World Class glider. No other good points IMHO.
Aldo
LAS
"Al" <asw17...@bigwings.org> wrote in message
news:ukpd2sk...@news.supernews.com...
>
> Enjoy sharing your low performance dream.
>
> Al
Oy. What a putz!
John Shelton
that everyone does not share your viewpoint.
"Al" <asw17...@bigwings.org> wrote in message
news:uko0vdk...@news.supernews.com...
Al
Have a great flight and fly safe.
Al
"jwren" <gli...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:no839.46435$Ru5....@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
Bob Kuykendall
> There are 70+ PW5's in the US, two for sale in Soaring.
>
> My guess is there are far less LS4's in this country and 7 of that fleet are
> on the block.
Far less? Far fewer? Er what? By "this country" do you mean the same
U.S. I live in?
There are 77 gliders of types LS-4, LS-4A and LS-4B registered in the
US. Search http://www.landings.com on aircraft type codes 3801250
(LS-4), 3801251 (LS-4a), and 3801252 (LS-4b).
And, let's not forget that the LS-4s are just part of the very
successful LS series. Many people who sell their LS-3 or LS-4 are
doing so because they have ordered or purchased another of the LS
series. One guy I know sold his first-year LS-6 so that he could buy a
brand new LS-6-18.
Al
Can't believe so many people purchased such a great performing aircraft. ;-)
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public"
Henry Louis Mencken (1880 1956)
Al
"Bob Kuykendall" <b...@hpaircraft.com> wrote in message
news:42f0299c.02080...@posting.google.com...
OscarCVox
on the winch. The PW5 will rotate almost uncontrollably into a full climb with
a powerfull winch unless you are carefull. Did the selection team ever try it
on the winch before they selected it as the world class?
Incidentally with similar performance there is the Grob 102. Bags of space,
available with fixed or retractable wheel. Our club has 3 of them and they are
among the most popular gliders in our fleet. We did not consider the PW5 as it
was too delicate and ugly. We sold our Junior 2 yrs ago because of worries over
SZD and ongoing spare part availability
Janusz Kesik
safe
> on the winch. The PW5 will rotate almost uncontrollably into a full climb
with
> a powerfull winch unless you are carefull. Did the selection team ever try
it
> on the winch before they selected it as the world class?
As far as I know, this bug has been already fixed and new series of PW-5s pr
oduced by Bielsko 1 [ www.bielsko1.com ] are aquipped with hook for winching
which has been moved forward. I think whole problem came from that here in P
oland we use rather weak winches (old types usually) so it was tested in our
reality. When PW-5 met a strong winch - it was something which it wasn't des
igned for I think.
We sold our Junior 2 yrs ago because of worries over
> SZD and ongoing spare part availability
At the moment that's no problem - SZD Jezow [ www.szdjezow.com.pl ] ensures
a full range of AD support and supplies whole range of SZD parts including m
ajor ones like new wings or fuselages.
Best regards,
Wasyl_P
Junior SZD-50? I live in Poland, so I have to buy some polish glider...
Piotr
Al
Better than any of the types youve been looking at and great fun.
plus its Polish ;-)
Al
"Wasyl_P" <Wasyl_P@Wasyl_P.pl> wrote in message
news:aik4ql$2uf$1...@news.tpi.pl...
Janusz Kesik
d some 50hrs in PW-5. For me Junior looks much better glider, and here's wh
y. Junior is full 15m sailplane, which will allow You whole range of FAI bad
ges. I know the 500km diamond will be a hard job to complete, but I know som
e people who did it. Mine longest task in Junior was about 400km long. It is
also very comfortable, has huge cockpit, and some trunk space (PW-5 has only
the place for barograph, but where to put some food or just a polartec jacke
t?). In my opinion it has also safer characteristics of flight, better contr
ol balance (I mean the equity of control surface effectiveness), more moment
um (PW-5 will hit the ground as it descends, and Junior will fly many metres
at high angle of attack - it allows You to pull some distance to e.g. jump t
hrough a not spotted ditch which appeared in a field). Junior also has the m
ost effective airbrakes I ever seen.
Next point for Junior in this competition is that it fits perfectly to widel
y used "Krakus" type open trailers. PW-5 has to have it's horizontal stabili
zer placed whereever else (but where? inside the car? We have placed it on t
he roof but the police will surely write You a penalty when it spots it - th
at's a problem).
Landing wheel - point for Junior - huge wheel allows to land safely in roguh
fields, same as whole airframe which is a bit too delicate in PW-5, especial
ly for first, sometimes harder touchdowns of beginner pilot in rough grass f
ields (I suppose You fly in Poland, where most of the clubs operate from gra
ss).
Finally, Junior is present in most of Polish clubs including specialized sch
ools in Leszno and Zar Mountain Gliding School, and it allows to use their e
quipment. PW-5 is owned only by few clubs in Poland (10 gliders as far as I
know in whole country, currently two damaged), and extremely reluctantly ren
ted to pilots from other clubs, which might be even stronger after the PW-5
which occured during the transition at Rudniki airfield in time of World Cla
ss Nationals in July.
Wave flights in Poland are being made in 90% in Junior, so when You'll be us
ed to this type it will be easier for You (PW-5 has the altitude limit of 50
00m above sea level).
Personally, my own feelings are that Junior offers much higher safety level,
it's easier to fly it, and allows you to fly cross country flights in wide r
ange of distances. Also the performance offered by Junior is significantly b
etter than PW-5. It's not a revolutionary difference, however a noticeable o
ne, especially when flying with headwind.
In my opinion - go straight for Junior only, if You can buy it (it might be
hard, but try - it's really worth of it).
Contact Avionic [ www.avionic.pl ] and / or SZD Jezow [ www.szdjezow.com.p
] to get details on pricing (SZD Jezow might have a used one for sale too)
If You need any further info, just write an e-mail. You may use Polish, as i
t's my mother tongue.
Best regards,
--
Janusz Kesik
Aeroclub Czestochowa, Poland
jant...@interia.pl
http://www.soaring.enter.net.pl
Użytkownik Wasyl_P <Wasyl_P@Wasyl_P.pl> w wiadomości do grup dyskusyjnych na
pisał:aik4ql$2uf$1...@news.tpi.pl...
Janusz Kesik
Knowing local realities of our club, I would suggest Junior, which doesn't m
ean the '59' is bad.
Instructors might be reluctant to allow freshman to fly '59' here. I know it
sounds strange, but that's a fact.
Additionally the '59' is out of prodiction and looks it has no chances to be
back on the market AFAIK which makes it impossible to get one (it's not pres
ent in Poland at all - all of the '59's were made for export customers).
Regards,
Janusz.
Użytkownik Al <asw17...@bigwings.org> w wiadomości do grup dyskusyjnych na
pisał:ukr6f9p...@news.supernews.com...
> SZD59
> Al
Al
Al
"Janusz Kesik" <jant...@interia.pl> wrote in message
news:aik6us$pd3$1...@news2.tpi.pl...
Lennie the Lurker
> The illustrious Mr Wren did pound the keyboard and uttered forth....
>
> "jwren" <gli...@attbi.com> wrote in message
> news:6MU29.238253$Wt3.214840@rwcrnsc53...
> >
> > > Lets face PW5's suck.
> > >
> > > The whole worldclass concept appears to have fallen apart just look at
> the
> > > amount of people with a PW5 rig trying to sell them.
> >
> > Hmm, with your fuzzy logic then LS4's must suck also.
>
> No LS4's are a much finer sailplane than any PW5.
Your opinion, dude. And worth what was paid for it.
>
><Snippage>
> PW5's have been advertised for high prices are any selling at that? I guess
> you call a $9000 1-26 a bargin then.
Not a bad price for an E model.
>
> And go 50Km... woo hoo... life in the fast lane what a rush.
Does standing on the ground and watching beat that?
>
> Each to their own, I still and have always stood by my belief that PW5's
> suck.
We all know. You've stated your opinion repeatedly.
>
> Now you can show another person with your PW6 what a light wieght ugly
> glider for 2 can do.
Ummmm, Al. There is no such thing as a pretty plastic plane. They
all suck, just that some need a small committee to put together, every
day.
>
> Enjoy sharing your low performance dream.
>
Anybody got a 2-22 for sale?
Lennie
Janos Bauer
Buy a Jantar (open, std?) for less money. That's real fun...
/Janos