Astir CS 77
Luke Whitaker
I have seen an Astir CS 77 for sale and would like to know a bit more
about the type. Most of my glass experience is in an ASW15B. The spec
for the Astir looks fairly similar. Is this a correct impression ?
Does the Astir have any vices or weaknesses (Undercarriage, air-brakes,
gel-coat ?).
It is a bit heavier than other similar gliders apparently. What are the
implications of this ? Harder to rig ? Harder to land in a field ?
Any information/impressions/experiences of the Astir CS 77 gratefully
received. I will attempt to summarise anything that is e-mailed to
me back to the group in a week or so.
thanks,
Luke Whitaker, Essex GC, England. (l.whi...@sm.ic.ac.uk)
Kevin Ferguson
>I have seen an Astir CS 77 for sale and would like to know a bit more
>about the type.
Hi Luke,
I have owned (first 1/2, now all) 'CS (1U) for around a year now. I
bought in bercause it has a very roomy cokpit to accomidate this
6'5"er. When I bought in, I felt I was sacraficing a lot of "go" for
the sake of comfort. But I have been pleasantly suprised at how well
she "goes". There is a LOT of wing area, but it doesn't seem to hurt
too much until over 100 kt. (Wet) . Of course I would never claim to
be able to run with a Discus, only that she's faster than I think she
looks, and runs well with her contemperaries. The ballast tanks are a
rather small (by todays standards) 12.5 gal each wing. (May not be an
issue in UK, but with New Mexico lift, I could take a lot more wing
loading). Interestingly, the tanks extend to only about 2 M out each
wing..Crummy span loading, but this may be safer during early launch
phase with much smaller roll & yaw moments to throw around. Nose hook
is a help herealso , and with second hook your OK on a winch as well.
I had flown my club's Liebelle 201 quite a lot previously, so I will
compare to that: Much heavier (though not objetionably so) control
forces. About 2/3 the roll rate available. Thermals much
slower/tighter, but took quite a bit of experiance to "dial-in" to
thermaling in this ship. At best climb speed, roll and yaw are rather
sluggish. I rarley get out thermaled by anything but well piloted
1-26 As (that would be 505) now. I feel that I have longer legs now
than in the Liebelle, though this may be due to the non-paralysis
inducing cockpit dimensions. Both ships stall quite docily, with
ailerons being effective well below min-sink...I've yet to spin either
ship Liebell has better visability due to canopy extending behind
head location. I did some instrument work on both, and the Grob has
much easier acess to the instruments.
Rigging:
The wings ARE heavy, and Grob uses a rather unique system of holding
on the wings, involving LOTS of swiveling sockets/pins. These were a
real pain to get aligned at first. A least there are no loose pieces
to keep track of.I have found that it is essential to get the first
wing (and this must be the right one) aligned exactly, or the second
one is a real pain. Now the wings go on rather painlessly, and I have
rigged with only my (non-East German-olympian) girlfriend to help.
Very wide chord at root may be an issue if arms are shorter than mine.
De-rigging has never been a problem, so you will need only 1 retrieve
crew ever. None of the controls hook up automatically so put this on
the minus list. My Hotellier fittings have been drilled for safety
pins, and it took some training of my big fingers to learn to install
them inside fuse' blind. Flat botttomed fuselage sits very nicely in
my trailer dolly, unlikely to fall over while rigging.
In general, I would discribe Grob's engineering as "clunky" most
things look over-built etc. (flame-bait I bet) "Hell-for-stout"
rather than "elegant" come to mind. One major exception here is the
tailwheel (ground dolly) arraingment. Grob deserves a medal for this
idea. Unless they've patented the scheme I have no idea why other
makers haven't copied this. I keep the wheel in the cockpit, and
always have it after landing. Only drawback may be that the hole
whistles at high speed, but seems a small price for convienience and
knowlege that I will never be tail-heavy because I forgot to remove my
dolly. Only problem here is people come to help me saying "Sorry I
took so long, but I can't find your tail dolly!" (at least half the
time, I swear!)
Maintainace:
Typical gel-coat issues, no worse than average.
There were a couple of "major" ADs on my ship, so be sure it is in
compliance, or you could have an expensive suprise ahead. The major
ones that come to mind are the Main Spar pin inspection and/or
replacement, and replacement of cast metal spoiler over-center cranks
inside the wing (involves cutting through lower wing skin). But have
a mechanic research this for you.
Overall impression: This is a very rugged, docile handeling ship. I
will eventually (already of course) want something faster/sexier, but
this bird will serve me nicely for a few years, and I'm glad I bought
her.
1U, out!
Kevin Ferguson
Luke,
I re-read your post, and here are answers to some of the specifics you
asked:
Weight issue on outlanding:
Due to reasonably low wing loading, and fat airfoil, this ship comes
in slow nicely, requiring no more runway than any other glass bird,
and less than a lot of them, I think. Only one land-out so far.
Tore off a gear door, but otherwise no problem. May be less likely to
spin than some ships (see other post) so there is little reason to
carry excessive speed on approach. (more flame bait for sure..yes
everybody should always fly fast enough, especially low!)
Spoiler effectiveness:
If 'CS, and '103 are indications, this must be a Grob trademark: Full
boards, and it drops like a wet anvil. A bit "snatchy" like the 103
as well. Made dropping in over powerline very simple on my
outlanding. I have made the mistake of holding full boards till
touchdown once.....Very difficult to arrest verticle speed, hit pretty
hard, very much tail first, but no damage ( was landing over runway
obstruction, wanted steep final...I got it!) My wheel brake is on
stick, I like this, and the brake is reasonably effective.
Never flown ASW-15, so can't compare for you.
-1U-