'Resort Fees', Hotel Atlantis, Reno NV / FTC Comment Period

[Robert Wander]

From the Hotel Atlantis, Reno, Nevada, website: "A daily $2 tourism surcharge and a resort fee of $35 plus 13% room tax per night of stay apply."
The 'Resort Fee' is usually hidden when booking online, and therefore is NOT incuded in the base price.
Typically, you only learn about it at check-out time, when these fees are added to your bill.
For a five night stay, the 'resort fee' will add $165 (!) to your bill at checkout time.
If you object to these hidden fees, as I do, you can register your views with the Federal Trade Commission, which is looking into whether to ban the practice.
File your comment online at https://www.regulations.gov/document/FTC-2022-0069-0001.
Look for the dark blue "comment" button near the top of the page, and write “Unfair or Deceptive Fees ANPR, R207011” on your response.

If you would rather mail your comment on paper, send it to this address:
Federal Trade Commission, Office of the Secretary
600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Suite CC-5610 (Annex B)
Washington, DC 20580

In either case, January 9, 2023, is the deadline for comments.

Thanks to the Arthur Frommer travel blog website (https://www.frommers.com/blogs/arthur-frommer-online/blog_posts)
for alerting me to this opportunity to register opposition to this deceptive business practice.
BW, SSA member, Cape Coral Florida
-End

[John Sinclair]

That’s Reno’s way of fleecing the touristas , but my memory is more tike a total additional fee of around $12 bucks, but haven’t rented a room up there for maybe 5 years now!
JJ

[Eric Greenwell]

4 years ago, the Resort Fee was $27, I found, so $35 now seems likely. Are we sure the SSA
deal requires us to pay a resort fee, or possibly, it's been waived?

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

There should be a Hampton Inn or Hilton that I could use my million points and get a free room! Old Bob, The Purist

[Paul Agnew]

Resort fees are usually negotiated out or lowered for conventions, but I don't know if SSA did so. I help run a couple of conventions a year for another organization and we get the resort fees dropped.

More egregious is this nugget on their website - "No cigar or pipe smoking allowed on property." Looks like it's just bourbon and a veggie tray on the veranda this year.

PA

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 5:21:54 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:

Looks like that Biden inflation has even hit soaring. Sure would be nice to have the 2025 convention in Florida, sure would be a much warmer destination and probably less expensive airfare. Several areas have off prime convention facilities, Feb in Florida can be quiet nice. OBTP

[Eric Greenwell]

On 12/20/2022 4:51 AM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 5:21:54 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:

...

>>> That’s Reno’s way of fleecing the touristas , but my memory is more tike a total additional fee of around $12 bucks, but haven’t rented a room up there for maybe 5 years now!
>>> JJ
>> 4 years ago, the Resort Fee was $27, I found, so $35 now seems likely. Are we sure the SSA
>> deal requires us to pay a resort fee, or possibly, it's been waived?
>>
>> --
>> Eric Greenwell - USA
>> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> Looks like that Biden inflation has even hit soaring. Sure would be nice to have the 2025 convention in Florida, sure would be a much warmer destination and probably less expensive airfare. Several areas have off prime convention facilities, Feb in Florida can be quiet nice. OBTP

Someone in FL has to submit a bid to hold a convention in FL. That's never happened in the
47 years I've been in the sport, but it's not too late to start! Convention site prices
have routinely gone up in that period, too, as resort fees and other charges were invented
long ago. You can reduce costs by staying somewhere besides the Atlantis, but it sure is
convenient to walk directly to the exhibit hall from the hotel, and be with all the other
soaring people staying there.

For West Coasters like myself, the airfare to FL far exceeds the cost of driving to Reno
from home, and warmer isn't much of a draw for an indoor event. But, if FL holds the
convention, I will come.

[Richard Owen]

Eric, Seminole did propose for the convention to come to Florida over 10 years ago. Lake County had completed a smaller convention venue relatively near the gliderport. Orlando International airport has all the major airlines serving the city and includes many non stop flights from the west coast. Southwest has a major hub in Orlando. The Seniors is held the second Friday in March so if you wanted to drive with your glider to the convention, you could stay for the contest or just fly locally. You have to schedule the convention to avoid major conventions and early spring breakers in Orlando to avoid higher flight fares. Even though Lake County had buses to help move people to the convention area, transportation would be a problem if you didn't have a car. There are so many places to go, a car becomes a necessity. It would be more appealing for a family trip since they would have more places for them to go while you are wondering around the convention floor. They are three operations in the local area to draw volunteers. I fail to mention the possibility of flying in the high performance two seat ships that would be on the floor at Seminole-Lake Gliderport.

Unfortunately, I probably cannot attend the convention. As the CM for the Seniors it would be a little unwise to travel right before the Sailplane Grand Prix that starts the week before the Seniors. So, guess I'll see the lucky folks that want to start their competitive year at the Seniors. If you cannot make it to the Seniors, don't forget Ole Bob the Purist has a month long Soaring Safari at Treasure Coast Soaring near Vero Beach Florida in March.

Happy Holidays and Safe Travels,
Rich Owen

[Eric Greenwell]

I did not remember that proposal; of course, Florida does have the facilities, yet it
hasn't had a convention there. What prevents that? Are there other issues besides the
conflict with the Seniors contest?

If I were much, much closer to Old Bob and TCS, and if it were a real safari instead just
flying at one glider operation, I'd consider going there. In my case, the 6000 mile round
trip to Vero Beach would be the safari; New Hibiscus would be one of many airports I'd use
during the safari. I've done that a couple times, including the Seniors on one of the
trips. I might do it again - much is possible when you have a motorglider.

You can do it finding tows along the way, as I did before I had a motorglider, but I do
get a lot more flying with a lot less effort, using the ASH26E instead of the ASW20C I
previously owned.

[Mark Mocho]

One of the many considerations the SSA deals with when deciding on a Convention location is whether the venue is in a place that makes it easy or difficult for vendors and exhibitors to attend. People like Paul Remde in Minnesota and glider dealers in California may not be willing to make a four- or five-thousand-mile round trip in winter to put their wares on display. Something more centralized than Florida makes it less burdensome for these people. Reno presents the same potential problems, with possibilities of inclement weather, coupled with the potential of difficult road travel in the Sierra Nevada mountains. Air travel to known resort areas may be easier for regular attendees, but we all like to see the nice shiny toys on display. An empty hall is, well, an empty hall.

[Frank Whiteley]

The SSA looked at holding the convention in Florida. Generally, Florida convention venues are very expensive, including accommodations during the desired time frames. One thing that was rather different and contributed to the high prices was the kick-back to the organization. That is, you, the attendee would pay more, but the SSA would get a kickback. For the venue near Seminole Lake, SSA would have received $30,000. However, the cost per room at the hotel would have been rather higher than the current room cost at Reno. As a result, the concern was that it would be lightly attended and the $30,000 kickback would have only covered part of the net loss. Even AMA abandoned their regular venue in Ontario, CA and moved elsewhere and not long holds that convention. They also held an event in Paramus, NJ, for about three years. I just checked their web site and called their office. AMA not longer holds a convention. There are 3-4 large model show/swap meets like ;the Toledo Model show, but it's not an AMA event.

We have also looked at having SSA booths at other venues. The cost of a 10-foot booth at some of these can be 1/3 the cost of having space at AirVenture. Display space at Sun'n'Fun was reasonable, but it requires support of those in Florida. I haven't seen the 2023 budget, but AFAIK, no one has made a request to promote soaring at Sun'n'Fun 2023 that I'm aware of.

Basically, the SSA needs about 1100 paid attendees. We didn't get that at Little Rock, which I thought was a nice venue despite the distance between the hotel (meals) and the convention center. At least we didn't have an ice storm.

Frank Whiteley

[Dan Marotta]

Cigarettes and snuff OK?

Dan
5J

[Frank Whiteley]

Those fees are reduced for an SSA block room under the contract. During one Reno convention, I shared a room with a member of the Air Force Assn. Best rate ever.

Frank

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

Florida would probably be much less expensive than you think, airfare to Florida is cheap compared to other venues. There are many sites in Florida that would make the convention a wonderful family vacation. There are no beaches in Clermont, only rednecks and cowboys and A few Canadian glider pilots, the cultural enlighten occurs on the East Coast. What else would one ask for, Florida the conservative capitol of the USA would be a great place to come for the winter and there is no better place in the USA than the East Coast of Florida. Vero Beach would be a great location, even the "Bum" might just be surprised at our hospitality. Old Bob, The Purist

[Eric Greenwell]

I just made a reservation at the Atlantis for Thur, Fri, Sat, Sun (4 nights). The Resort
Fee was $18/day; the tourism surcharge was $93, shown before payment was taken;
apparently, the SSA gets a substantially reduced Resort Fee. There was no tax listed on my
invoice.

I agree there should be no Resort Fee added to the room fee, unless there is a way to stay
there without paying for the resort amenities (the pretext for the charge).

[Dan Marotta]

Aren't the "resort amenities" the privilege to lose your money at the
casino? They should spot you $50/day to stay there.

Dan
5J

O

[2G]

The cheapest rate I saw at the Atlantis is $167/night + tax + tourism fee + resort fee for a total of $901 for 4 nights. Apparently, that can be reduced by a convention code, but the SSA does not list what that code is. By comparison, Hotels.com has a "mystery hotel" rate of $35/night. With taxes and resort fees the total is $357. The hotels are any one of three 4-star hotels in downtown Reno.

Tom

[2G]

That was Priceline.com, not Hotels.com

[Eric Greenwell]

I just clicked on the "Click Here to Reserve Hotel Room" button in the SSA email. That
took me to an Atlantis page where the code was automatically applied, giving me four
nights for a total of $741, in a "Luxury Tower 2 Queen Beds with View" room.

[Frank Whiteley]

There's a link here https://www.ssa.org/convention/ with a group ID embedded. Have to scroll down the page.

[Bill Tisdale]

The "Resort Fee" is a Nevada statewide fee in certain "resort areas" to gain extra $$$ into their Tax Coffers. It's been around for years.