Leg/foot cramps while flying

[Eric Greenwell]

The last 2 or 3 years, I sometimes get foot or lower calf leg cramps. Very distracting!
It's hard to do any real stretching, but a variety of small motions (wiggling low leg,
raising the foot/pointing it forward, pressing on the pedals, etc) seems to reduce the
cramp, and then relaxing and being very careful not tense the muscles involved returns the
leg to normal.

I sometimes have the same problem while sleeping in my comfy bed at home, but never while
driving a car or watching TV from my recliner. Does anyone know what causes this and how
to deal with it? My doctor wasn't any help, and I haven't found anything on the Internet
that sounded like it might explain or help the condition.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

[Hank Nixon]

<My wife has this problem, almost always at night. Hydration and chemical balance matters. Look at magnesium type products. Watch out for the effect of too much. We've thought circulation or chemical as cause but can't get a straight answer from the doc either.
UH

[Craig Reinholt]

Eric,
I've fought leg cramps for over a decade. Caffeine and alcohol exacerbates the problem (dehydration). I've gone to decaf coffee (sigh....) and no soda's with caffeine. I severely limit alcohol consumption during the flying season. I usually drink at least 28oz of Power-ade / Gatorade before a flight (sometimes more). Lastly, like Hank commented, magnesium really helps. I now take about 125 mg before bed for leg cramps at night. More and the negative effects kick in. YMMV.
Craig

[Michael Fadden]

I've suffered from night time leg cramps for years as well. They are extremely painful and sometimes I can barely get out of the bed to stretch my calf out. Once, the cramp was so bad that I had bruising appear on my calf a couple of days later. I often thought that if I ever had one while flying, I don't know what I'd do. Just wait it out while in agony, I guess. Fortunately (or not), the bad ones only happen while sleeping. I have gotten minor cramps in my feet while flying and its a matter of trying to press on the rudder pedal with the affected foot while holding the rudder centered with the other. I've done a fair amount of reading on the night cramps and the short answer is that they don't know, for sure, what causes them. Magnesium has not been shown in trials to be of any help. There are many products out there that claim to help but I think most, if not all, are snake oil. I do drink about a quart of a electrolyte drink after exercising and that seems to have reduced the frequency of the cramps. Dehydration plays a part in some cramps but the connection to night time ones isn't so clear. At least not to me. I can be well hydrated and still get them. I might try the magnesium, based on anecdotes mentioned here.

Mike

[JAB]

On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 14:14:00 -0700, Eric Greenwell
<ow...@thegreenwells.netto> wrote:

>I haven't found anything on the Internet
>that sounded like it might explain or help the condition.

Try Mayo - In many cases, however, the cause isn't known.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/muscle-cramp/symptoms-causes/syc-20350820

Good read...some hints there...

>Long periods of exercise or physical labor,
>particularly in hot weather, can lead to muscle cramps.

I did that once, and was on the ground for some twenty minutes, in
pain.

[2G]

Eric,

Here are some more links:
https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/002066.htm#:~:text=A%20charley%20horse%20is%20the,control%20and%20does%20not%20relax.

https://www.webmd.com/pain-management/muscle-spasms-cramps-charley-horse

I have had cramps while flying (usually in my foot) and had no choice but suffer thru it. Salt tablets are a place to start. You need to drink PLENTY of water while flying.

Tom

[Rakel]

As mentioned in the Webmd link posted above, leg cramps can be caused by Statins, the infamous cholesterol lowering medicines.

My doctor put me on several statins and they all caused leg cramps as often as 2 or 3 times a week. No thank you. My cholesterol is about 200, sometimes a bit more or less, which is not that bad. I quit the statins and I have not had a leg cramp since. I mitigate any heart disease risk with life style changes such as diet and exercise.

[Martin Gregorie]

On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 14:14:00 -0700, Eric Greenwell wrote:

> The last 2 or 3 years, I sometimes get foot or lower calf leg cramps.
> Very distracting! It's hard to do any real stretching, but a variety of
> small motions (wiggling low leg, raising the foot/pointing it forward,
> pressing on the pedals, etc) seems to reduce the cramp, and then
> relaxing and being very careful not tense the muscles involved returns
> the leg to normal.
>

Try Gatorade. In a past life, retrieving free flight models during late
summer competitions in California and/or France this worked a treat.

These days I use Isostar. Its lemony rather than orangey and not as sweet
as Gatorade. It also works well for night-time leg cramps and, as a bonus,
dissolves really fast when added to a glass of water.

Or, for a home-brew solution, try this WHO recipe:

1) 1/4 level teaspoon salt
2) 1/6 level teaspoon potassium chloride
3) 2.5 level teaspoons sugar
4) 1/3 level teaspoon sodium bicarbonate or sodium citrate.
5) 1 litre of clean drinking water
6) Optional: add lemon juice for flavour.

Combine 1 and 2 to give 2/3 level teaspoon salt, but best made in bigger
quantities and stored until needed.

[mrop...@gmail.com]

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 5:14:12 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:

My father had them for years when he got older. The MDs told
him to take quinine in low quantities which helped some. It was
the reason that he stopped trying for his 1000 Km distance flight
on the ridge. It seemed like they were always worse after a long day
at the airport. Dehydration probably had something to do with it.

I have been getting them at night for a number of years now too.
I have been using Cramp Defense (magnesium malate) for several
years now myself. One pill before bed time (sometimes two if it has
been a strenuous day) seems to work for me to keep the cramps at
bay for the most part.

RO

[Dan Marotta]

I looked at the Mayo Clinic and found this. Hope it's of help.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/magnesium-supplements/faq-20466270

Dan
5J

[Jay Campbell]

I mentioned the night cramps to my massage therapist several years ago and was advised to try a topical: Theraworx. Doubtful that a rub-on topical foam could be of use, I nevertheless applied to affected areas when I got night cramps and within a minute, GONE. Have been using for four years for night cramps, but only as a curative, never as a preventative, as I get such cramps less often now. It works every time and it works fast. I have never (thank goodness) had cramps while flying, cannot imagine trying to apply while in flight, but it might be worth a try as a preventative if you always cramp in the same spot(s). Amazon has it, but you can buy direct too at:< https://theraworxrelief.com/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=Cj0KCQjw6J-SBhCrARIsAH0yMZgsWAOjoiJxQBE5PsKJJ9pAf-DyDMRB6CVPjdW75-a2Y6vw1HeGLAgaAuYqEALw_wcB > One time, the pump ceased to work, their customer service replaced without hesitation. They claim that daily use will prevent cramps, but I have not tried that as I do not have that significant a problem. AND: made in USA!

[John Galloway]

I am a retired family doctor who has advised a lot of people about cramps and who tends to get foot cramps while XC gliding and also leg cramps at night. I support all the advice about good hydration and hypotonic electrolyte solution in flight - especially in hot climates. BUT my main advice about common cramps is that muscles tend to cramp when they are at their most contracted. Calf muscles may cramp in bed when we point out feet while having a stretch, muscles in the sole of our feet cramp in flight when we have been pushing on the pedals with the balls of our feet and flexing our toes down for a long time. It is flexor muscles (eg plantar, calf, hamstrings) that tend to cramp most commonly.

It is rare for cramps to be due to drugs or metabolic issues but I experienced that once when I stupidly took off on a task already dehydrated on a hot day and forgot to carry my water bag. After about 2 hours I started getting spontaneous severe cramps in my quadriceps, jaw and other muscles and was lucky to get on the ground safely.

I never let my feet fully flex in bed and when I have a stretch I always cock my feet upwards rather than downwards. In flight I make sure that I relax my feet on the pedals and always have footwear with enough toe room to all me to extend my toes upwards frequently.

[Bruce Patton]

[JAB]

On Sat, 2 Apr 2022 08:36:36 -0700 (PDT), John Galloway
<jpg...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I support all the advice about good hydration and
>hypotonic electrolyte solution in flight

Years ago, someone suggested Tonic Water, which has quinine (check
label) is dissolved in it. RO suggested this worked for his father.

Mayo suggested peddling an exercise bike before going to bed...don't
know if relevant before a flight. Lightly, I assume would be best.

[MNLou]

I have high arches and was getting foot cramps from operating the rudders - a form of pointing one's toes.

I added high arch insoles to my flying shoes. That has greatly helped the issue.

Lou

[kinsell]

On 4/2/22 03:00, Rakel wrote:
> As mentioned in the Webmd link posted above, leg cramps can be caused by Statins, the infamous cholesterol lowering medicines.
>
> My doctor put me on several statins and they all caused leg cramps as often as 2 or 3 times a week. No thank you. My cholesterol is about 200, sometimes a bit more or less, which is not that bad. I quit the statins and I have not had a leg cramp since. I mitigate any heart disease risk with life style changes such as diet and exercise.

Harvard Medical School says the most common side effect of statins is
muscle pain and cramps:

https://www.health.harvard.edu/pain/managing-statin-muscle-pain

I had a particularly bad experience with a blood pressure medicine
(clonidine) which caused leg cramps that would take several weeks to
fully go away.

All drugs and even OTC supplements can cause side effects and you need
to watch carefully for new symptoms after medication changes.

-Dave

[Dee]

Clonadine use is on the FAA's unacceptable list because of its centrally acting issues (e.g. drowsiness, mental confusion). Fortunately there are better antihypertensives that aren't. Caution, one class (diuretics) may exacerbate a hydration problem. As far as statins go (e.g., lipitor), the frequency of muscle spasms reported in over 16,000 patients is 3.6% for lipitor users; but still 3.0% in the placebo arm. So, taking nothing causes nearly as much cramping as taking lipitor. The most frequent side-effect is nasopharyngitis (a cold by any other name) at 8.3% vs 8.2% placebo.

Tonic water: Reported to help some, but is carbonated (bad) and many brands contain sugar.

Coconut water: Hydrating, contains high content of most of the good electrolytes and is low in sugar.

Pickle juice and Vinegar: I've refereed many Hispanic soccer players that swear drinking pickle juice provides almost instant relief of cramps; Vinegar (acetic acid) alone (also in PJ) may relieve cramping. Published results (see below) suggest the positive effects are likely not due to electrolyte/hydration rebalancing, but triggers a neurologic modulation of neuromuscular units (alpha-motor neurons).

Too much water may be bad? Yes, it can be a problem as being overhydrated can dilute your circulating electrolytes (damned if you do, damned if you don't). If you talk with ER physicians/nurses, they will tell you that patients admitted with yet-undiagnosed conditions will improve once a saline IV drip is running.

Compression stockings: Anecdotal findings that they are prophylactic to cramps. They work for me on long intercontinental flights. An ongoing clinical trial (many of which you can sign up for as a test subject) is exploring the value of compression stockings and magnesium supplements on leg cramps. Heat increases circulation and I've used chemical heating pads on my calf (slower activation time at high altitudes). A virtually guaranteed trick for immediate relief of calf cramping is to have someone push your toe hard toward the knee (dorsiflexion). It's difficult to do this alone, so I bring a stiff piece of rope that I can loop around my toe and pull. Helps with exercising your cold feet, too.

A big group to choose from: Widespread use of liquids by athletes purported to work against cramps- "dill and sweet pickle juices, yellow mustard, sweet relish, apple cider vinegar, Hot Shot, PJ Shot, PJ Sport, E-Lyte Sport, Powerade, Gatorade, Smartwater, and Propel+ among others."

Phyllis

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32459412/

Quantitative Analysis of the Acetic Acid Content in Substances Used by Athletes for the Possible Prevention and Alleviation of Exercise-Associated Muscle Cramps - National Institutes of Health
Marosek, SEH, Antharam, V, and Dowlatshahi, K. Quantitative analysis of the acetic acid content in substances used by athletes for the possible prevention and alleviation of exercise-associated muscle cramps. J Strength Cond Res 34(6): 1539-1546, 2020-Athletes regularly consume commercially availabl …
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8628416/

Prevention of leg cramps by using compression stockings or magnesium supplements in the 50–84 age group: study protocol for a randomised controlled trial
Leg cramps are painful sensations of tightening in the muscles of the legs that commonly appear during the night and are often associated with secondary insomnia. They are common especially in older age. There is no evidence that any method of prevention ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/pharm/antihyp/

https://www.visitcompletecare.com/blog/urgent-care-iv-fluids-for-dehydration/

Emergency Room IV Fluids for Dehydration - Complete Care
Complete Care recognizes the importance of ensuring that our website is accessible to those with disabilities. This website endeavors to conform to Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.0.and has been built using code compliant with W3C standards for HTML and CSS.
www.visitcompletecare.com


Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners - Federal Aviation Administration
The latest general information on the Coronavirus (COVID-19) is available on Coronavirus.gov.For FAA-specific COVID-19 resources, please visit faa.gov/coronavirus.
www.faa.gov


[JAB]

On Sun, 3 Apr 2022 14:36:01 -0700 (PDT), Dee <phlyi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Tonic water: Reported to help some, but is carbonated (bad) and many brands contain sugar.

What to know about quinine in tonic water
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323692

Footnote - If research dollars don't exist, then this/that does not
get evaluated.

I'm not peddling tonic water, but some people assert it works for
them.

Mayo had a good suggestion about peddling a bike before bed...which
increases blood flow to affected muscle groups, and this would bring
about more nutrients that could be absorbed.

[Michael Bamberg]

I also get the night cramps, but in the glider it seems that the cramps are brought on by cold temperatures. I now have a pair of over-the-calf heavy socks and an insulation boot that fits over my regular shoes.

Mike

[kinsell]

Sounds like a very nice study paid for by the makers of Lipitor. Rakel
will be happy to learn his leg cramps were all in his head.

[Chip Bearden]

All good stuff, leading to the conclusion that there's no universally agreed cause of or magic bullet for leg cramps.

I've been a marathon runner for 45 years and used to suffer calf and hamstring cramps late in the race. Staying hydrated might have helped a bit, as did salt tablets, magnesium, etc. I never worked up the nerve to try pickle juice. One possible cause for cramps--i.e., exercising muscles to exhaustion--is relevant to runners but not to pilots. I did ultimately find relief wearing compression shorts (thigh length) and over-the-calf compression socks, but I can't say they were the magic bullet, either. I may have just slowed down with age such that I wasn't taxing my muscles as severely. I continue to wear compression socks most of the time because of a DVT incident, which is why you often see me at the gliderport in the summer wearing long pants. I just got tired of explaining the socks. :)

I've had leg cramps at night, too, which are readily dispatched by doing a "wall pushup" to stretch out the offending calf or hamstring muscle. That's no big deal if you're alone but can alarm a partner when you wake up yelling and leap out of bed. It's more easily explained than the socks, though.

I hadn't heard of other pilots having leg cramps in flight. It was the first day of the 1980 15M Nationals and I pulled up hard into a thermal at about 80 kts. The surge kept going and kicked the left wing up a little so I pushed over, then rolled left and pushed the left rudder pedal hard. Instantly, my left calf knotted up extremely painfully. All kinds of thoughts went thru my mind, including "I can't f***ing believe it; am I gonna have to land and throw away the contest I've been prepping for all year?"

Pulling my toe back to mimic the wall pushup (dorsiflexion) had zero effect. In desperation and pain, I was scrabbling about with my toes trying to find something to push against when my feet came to rest on a rib or ledge in the underside of the LS3 nose cone. So I pushed my toes against it hard. Instant relief!!! Both legs threatened to cramp the rest of the flight so I avoided using the rudder as much as possible. I didn't bother trying to explain my erratic thermaling style that day.

Yes, it's possible to drink so much water that you upset the sodium balance in your body (hyponatremia), which can lead to cramps and all kinds of other nasty things. It's an issue for marathoners and other endurance athletes. But I can't imagine it would be a problem for most soaring pilots, who seem far more likely to be in a constant state of mild dehydration. But there are some circumstances that could apply, including diuretics, so it's probably worth a read on hyponatremia if you're having cramps.

Chip Bearden
JB

[david heffel]

so i have had this problem. once in a while but for the last couple years, ive noticed on the longer and higher flights it gets worse.

i asked a buddy who is a fancy surgeon about this. He laughed at me......."get your ass to the gym, old man" was his response.

he said this is very typical when you are in one position for hours on end and lack of circulation is what is really going on.

today, i took my GF to an outpatient facility for a minor surgical issue. while prepping her, they put these inflatable calf sleeves on her.

i asked what these were for, and they informed me, much like when they take your blood pressure, they inflate/deflate squeezing the legs helping with circulation.

then i wondered....why not try this in the glider? sure enough....a quick search found all sorts of these things on amazon.

obviously not a replacement for the gym and cardio health.....but hey...why not give it a try?

[Dan Daly]

I occasionally have cramps in the sole of my feet when sleeping. I have found that pinching the upper lip firmly for 30 secs then releasing solves the problem - apparently a acupuncture pressure point. In any case, it works for me.

[Eric Greenwell]

His analysis doesn't explain why many of us, including me, get the same cramps while
sleeping at night; also, I am at least as fit now as I was five years ago. The IPC
(intermittent pneumatic compression) device is interesting, but too cumbersome to use in a
glider.

[kiwiindenver]

My wife has had night cramps forever. She strongly recommends the stop cramp product available here https://nznaturalformulas.co.nz

Its small, easy to use and quick acting. Ideal for a cockpit.

[John Foster]

On Wednesday, April 20, 2022 at 1:40:40 PM UTC-6, kiwiindenver wrote:
> My wife has had night cramps forever. She strongly recommends the stop cramp product available here https://nznaturalformulas.co.nz
>
> Its small, easy to use and quick acting. Ideal for a cockpit.

I've had a few people tell me that a shot glass of pickle juice helps with night-time leg cramps. Something to do with the salt/electrolytes in the pickle juice that helps prevent this.

[Turkey Vulture]

I get these cramps as well after long flights, sometimes on short flights. I get them in both cold and hot conditions.

I started getting cramps in my new ship. I never got cramps before. Slight positional change?
Perhaps we don't realize how tense we are up there flying a plane with no engine. My entire leg can get involved with moving the rudder rather than just using my calves and foot muscles. I seem to do better when I keep reminding myself to relax all my muscles. No tension!

I actually reconfigured my panel to allow for more leg movement to massage out the cramp when they come.

Wouldn't eating actual pickles be the same as a shot of pickle juice? Probably gonna smell up the cockpit for awhile if you spill some pickle juice.
I'll try that lip-pinching technique next time.

It really can be scary when your foot is completely locked up.

[Eric Greenwell]

On 4/1/2022 2:14 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> The last 2 or 3 years, I sometimes get foot or lower calf leg cramps. Very distracting!
> It's hard to do any real stretching, but a variety of small motions (wiggling low leg,
> raising the foot/pointing it forward, pressing on the pedals, etc) seems to reduce the
> cramp, and then relaxing and being very careful not tense the muscles involved returns the
> leg to normal.
>
> I sometimes have the same problem while sleeping in my comfy bed at home, but never while
> driving a car or watching TV from my recliner. Does anyone know what causes this and how
> to deal with it? My doctor wasn't any help, and I haven't found anything on the Internet
> that sounded like it might explain or help the condition.
>

The first two flights this year, I had severe leg and foot cramps after 3 hours of flying.
The next four flights of 4 to 6 hours, no cramps. Was that due to the 125mg of magnesium
and the 20 oz of diluted Gatorade I had before each flight? It's too soon to say, but I'll
continue using both for two more flights, then stop using one of them to see if the cramps
return.

I did try knee-high socks on one flight - still had the cramps - so they don't seem to be
a solution for me.

[Mike the Strike]

Magnesium worked for me - until I had a DVT!

Mike

[Eric Greenwell]

Did the magnesium cause the DVT? Or did the cramps return, even with use of magnesium?

[Mike the Strike]

[Mike the Strike]

I had leg cramps for many years - mostly at night, but also when flying. I was recommended foods high in magnesium and potassium rather than supplements and found that it did work for me.

The DVT was a separate issue - a combination of positional immobility, dehydration, oxygen starvation and an inherited genetic mutation for thrombophilia - basically economy class syndrome in a glider!

Mike

[cschra...@gmail.com]

Recently a fit, 30-yr old who was a passenger in a glider being flown in the Seniors suffered from serious dehydration and his muscles seized up. The pilot landed shortly thereafter and the passenger was met by an ambulance that put him on an IV to get him rehydrated. It was scary for all involved. Coincidentally the next day's safety meeting featured a pilot who was a nurse anesthetist who described the dangers of dehydration and the physiological processes that body undergoes when it doesn't have enough water and electrolytes (your organs shut down). Bottom line folks: stay hydrated and drink your watered down Gatorade mixture in the air. You need the electrolytes. For those worried about extra sugar intake, Gatorade makes zero calorie options.

A good article on the subject of dehydration and heat stroke, see: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/dehydration-and-heat-stroke

- Chris Schrader

[kinsell]

Low potassium is a prime cause of muscle cramps, and Gatorade has very
little potassium. You're much better off drinking milk if potassium is
a problem.

[danlj]

The professionals have given some good advice above. I'm an internist and I've had cramps also. In addition to the advice about maintaining fluid/electrolyte hydration, wiggling, stretching, I"d add
- stay physically active, as toned muscles seem less likely to cramp in my own experience than flaccid, deconditioned ones.
- Statins for cholesterol are possibly the biggest source of muscle cramps at and beyond middle age in the West. I couldn't tolerate any statin despite severe cramps, even with normal doses of QoQ10, but after my heart attack and stent, my friend Armistead, a diabetic with the same need and problem recommended *Kirkland* brand *300 mg* CoQ10 twice daily. No cramps since, and tolerating a statin well, with cholesterol <100 mg/dl
DanLJ

[cschra...@gmail.com]

> Low potassium is a prime cause of muscle cramps, and Gatorade has very
> little potassium. You're much better off drinking milk if potassium is
> a problem.

https://pedialyte.com/products/sport-liter/lemon-lime (this product line has both electrolytes and potassium)

[Eric Greenwell]

It is interesting that this sports drink touts the sodium in it for cramp avoidance, and
not the potassium and magnesium (which it also contains) other posters have
suggested/recommended for cramp avoidance. This article mentions insufficient calcium (and
magnesium) as a potential cause, so is it calcium, magnesium, potassium, sodium or? Maybe
it's one or two of those for each person, but which one(s) vary between people.

A common issue in all the articles and advice is dehydration, so that might be the best
place to start. My levels of calcium, magnesium, potassium, and sodium are all in the
normal range, so perhaps my problem is primarily dehydration, even though I think I'm
getting enough to drink before a flight. Two more flights without cramps, and I'll stop
taking the magnesium, but continue swilling the diluted Gatorade. If that's all it takes,
great!

[kinsell]

With the problem showing up in early season flying in the NW, I would
think dehydration or electrolyte depletion is not a likely candidate.

Since this first showed up several years ago, does it correlate with any
medication changes? Drugs can and do have significant side effects,
contrary to what you might have read here.

-Dave

[danlj]

On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 11:15:51 AM UTC-5, kinsell wrote:

NO!!!
https://www.webmd.com/diet/foods-rich-in-potassium

[kinsell]

????????


"An 8-ounce bottle of the original, fruit-flavored, ready-to-drink
Gatorade has only 37 milligrams of potassium. Even by the standards set
by the National Kidney Foundation, this is a very small amount of
potassium. By way of comparison, 8 ounces of nonfat liquid milk have 382
milligrams of potassium."

https://www.livestrong.com/article/502971-can-gatorade-elevate-potassium-levels-in-the-blood/

The link you posted sez: Certain dairy products, such as milk and
yogurt, are high in potassium (low-fat or fat-free is best).

Can you explain what the source of your "NO!!!" comment is?

[Eric Greenwell]

No medication changes for almost 3 years. I do take simvastatin, and have for 10+ years.

[kinsell]

On 4/27/22 14:28, Eric Greenwell wrote:

> No medication changes for almost 3 years. I do take simvastatin, and
> have for 10+ years.
>

Well, you said it first showed up 2-3 years ago. I wouldn't be too
quick to rule out medication changes as the source of the problem.

[paulst...@msn.com]

I don't ever have cramps in my calves until get into a glider. This normally occurs early in the season. It seems to dissipate as I fly more often. This suggests that there is an acclimation process at work. My glider buddy (who is an ER Doctor) pointed out that the cramps could be caused by the seat position and my parachute/cushions pressing on the bundle of nerves in my lumbar region. I rarely get cramps in my ASW 20, I frequently get cramps in my LS3, I get unbearable, unrelenting cramps when I fly the club Grob 103. All of these ships have different relative seat positions. I am diligent about hydration before and during flight and most of the time these cramps occur while on tow. I understand that there are a multitude of reasons why we cramp. I suspect that our "nest" of cushions and parachute may have something to do with the problem. Keep experimenting with your comfort in a glider.

Paul, 9P & MO

[Mark Mocho]

I don't get "crippling" cramps, but I have noticed that early in the season, when I am trying to concentrate on not screwing up, I tend to put excessive pressure on the rudder pedals. This results in pain in my calves and ankles, which eventually could lead to muscle spasms or cramps. Some of this has to do with the "unusual" angle of my feet; twisted inwards, toes pointed with stress on the muscles that have not been exercised in this position over the winter layoff. As I get more comfortable during the season, I can concentrate on relaxing the pressure, flexing my ankles and legs as much as possible and after a few flights, the pain goes away, or doesn't even occur. I also started taking some advice from some of my friends who are rock climbers. They recommended bananas as a great source of energy and potassium, so I sometimes have one before launch. YMMV

[Paul]

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 10:12:53 PM UTC-5, Mark Mocho wrote:
> I don't get "crippling" cramps, but I have noticed that early in the season, when I am trying to concentrate on not screwing up, I tend to put excessive pressure on the rudder pedals. This results in pain in my calves and ankles, which eventually could lead to muscle spasms or cramps. Some of this has to do with the "unusual" angle of my feet; twisted inwards, toes pointed with stress on the muscles that have not been exercised in this position over the winter layoff. As I get more comfortable during the season, I can concentrate on relaxing the pressure, flexing my ankles and legs as much as possible and after a few flights, the pain goes away, or doesn't even occur. I also started taking some advice from some of my friends who are rock climbers. They recommended bananas as a great source of energy and potassium, so I sometimes have one before launch. YMMV

Bananas are supposed to be a good preventative and/or remedy for muscle cramps. High in potassium and magnesium. Also manageable in-flight food.

p.

[Eric Greenwell]

That was my error. I reviewed my notes, and I've occasional cramping for 10 years or so,
but this year, they were more severe and almost uncontrollable, instead of just a nuisance.

[Craig Reinholt]

On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 3:45:53 PM UTC-7, Craig Reinholt wrote:
> Eric,
> I've fought leg cramps for over a decade. Caffeine and alcohol exacerbates the problem (dehydration). I've gone to decaf coffee (sigh....) and no soda's with caffeine. I severely limit alcohol consumption during the flying season. I usually drink at least 28oz of Power-ade / Gatorade before a flight (sometimes more). Lastly, like Hank commented, magnesium really helps. I now take about 125 mg before bed for leg cramps at night. More and the negative effects kick in. YMMV.
> Craig

While the Mg and careful hydration management helped my leg cramps, come to find out the main culprit was a calcium deficiency. I did a minor amount of research and one of the main symptoms of calcium deficiency is regular leg cramping. I haven't drank milk in decades for no particular reason (no lactose intolerance). After a few glasses, bingo! No leg cramps. I tried calcium supplements and they work as well.
What a relief not to worry about cramping after all these years.
Craig

[Dan Marotta]

Too much calcium can lead to kidney stones. Moderation in everything.

Dan
5J

[Frank Whiteley]

I quit drinking milk several years ago. Milk is fortified with vitamin D which is essential to the absorption of calcium. After about eight years I found myself with a number of issues, including nerve pain especially in my legs, due to calcium deficiency. I eventually tried a Caltrate 600D which had profound effects after 20 minutes with regard to the nerve pain relief and continued on a course of those and supplemental vitamin D, all with positive results. You can overdue it, so periodic blood work is essential and adjusting intact to keep the levels in range. The key was probably the vitamin D as I still ate cheese, yogurt, and cottage cheese, just no milk, and was probably not eating enough of vitamin D foods. Hydration is also essential and other pilots have mentioned less tolerance of heat with aging. I've always liked diluted Gatorade.
Frank

[Martin Gregorie]

For some years I've preferred the taste of IsoStar Lemon to Gatorade
because its less strongly flavoured and not as sweet, but YMMV.

IIRC it and Gatorade became available at around the same time, but
Gatorade is probably easier to find in the USA.


--

Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Eric Greenwell]

I'm glad you found the answer to your cramps! I drink a couple glasses of milk a day and
take calcium supplement, so that's not my problem. So far, the magnesium supplement and
drinking Gatorade in the morning before flying seems to be working, though I do sometimes
get twinges after a few hours.

[2G]

The Mayo Clinic says (https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/muscle-cramp/symptoms-causes/syc-20350820):

"Mineral depletion. Too little potassium, calcium or magnesium in your diet can contribute to leg cramps. Diuretics — medications often prescribed for high blood pressure — also can deplete these minerals."

Best talk to your doctor about the situation since medications you are on can affect cramps. All of the sites I looked at recommended exercise, massaging and proper hydration to prevent cramps. Once in the cockpit exercise and massaging are not possible. Not one recommended taking mineral supplements, but it couldn't hurt. Here's one that contains all three:
https://www.amazon.com/Country-Life-Target-Mins-Magnesium/dp/B00117ZTOS/ref=sr_1_5?gclid=Cj0KCQjworiXBhDJARIsAMuzAuzRrcAE5O39awnmYtX12jzqPCsNH0x6U8iMcABQPyy6BLoPnFUPJs0aAtJ8EALw_wcB&hvadid=282619068640&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9033822&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=11733798361341060938&hvtargid=kwd-667391613792&hydadcr=21908_9712296&keywords=potassium+calcium+or+magnesium&qid=1659847036&sr=8-5

[kinsell]

Dan, you're so old fashioned. That used to be the conventional wisdom.

Current thinking is that milk actually helps prevent kidney stones:

https://www.webmd.com/kidney-stones/kidney-stones-food-causes

https://wellness.uoguelph.ca/services/health-services/all-health-services/dietitian-services/does-drinking-milk-increase-my-risk

[Amy Johnson]

adjusting my chute leg straps has helped a TON.

not one cramp this year.

what i found is when i put my chute on and adjust it for comfort, it was too tight in my seating position and slightly cutting off circulation.

what a difference.

[Karl Striedieck]

I get the occasional middle of the night calf muscle cramp which has to run its coarse - about a minute. Hurts

This also happens when applying rudder in the ASW-27 but not the Duo. I can feel it coming and stop it by letting off the rudder and accepting the sideways yaw string. Full rudder in the 27 requires a much more pointed foot/extended toes than the Duo. It may help to rerig the rudder peddles so that they are tilted back more at the top and thus require less contraction of the calf muscle?

KS

[Eric Greenwell]

I have a similar situation in ASH26E (where I get cramps) vs the Phoenix (where I don't get
cramps). Something to try.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[John Galloway]

KS is exactly right and making the same point that I did on 2nd April. The great majority of calf cramps in gliders can be prevented by avoiding pushing your foot into the downwards-pointing position in which the calf muscle is fully contracted. Even if (like me) you are taking a drug such as a statin that makes cramps a bit more likely, they won't happen when the calf muscle is in a slightly or fully stretched state. Same principle goes for cramps in bed and for cramps in other muscles such as the quadriceps. If anyone is getting completely spontaneous cramps irrespective of position because of dehydration or medication or whatever they ought to get on the ground asap and sort out the issue before flying again.