Duo Discus vs. DG1000 in a stall?
S Schwartz
DG-1000 before I decide. Has anyone flown the Duo Discus & the DG
1000? I have heard that the Duo is not very comfortable to sit in. Can
you comment on the stall characteristics between the two?
Mark Zivley
time. The Duo doesn't tend to stall in the first place, rather it just
mushes a bit.
BTIZ
I believe it was in the SSA magazine
BT
"S Schwartz" <stuarts...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:a07a1234.04072...@posting.google.com...
Philip Plane
I've only flown the Duo once, but have plenty of experience in the DG1000.
The DG1000 is, as someone else noted, a little tight up front.
No worse than many singles, but not generous. If you're large,
it'll be snug, and in any case you will need to select your footwear
with care.
The rear seat on the other hand is very generous. It's comfortable and
roomy.
Both front and rear have good ventilation. The cockpit is very quiet.
I've flown with several Duo enthusiasts in the DG and while they weren't
easily impressed with the performance or handling they all noticed the
creature comforts in the cockpit and most of all the noise level.
The DG has the ballast system to think about. Because you can easily
get the CG where you want it, the stall and spin characteristics are
adjustable. Near the back limit I find it stalls nicely with plenty
of warning but rarely goes straight. I've only once had it not drop
a wing.
Spins are easy. Ballasted right it spins when encouraged and stops
when told to. I've had it oscillate a couple of times, but when I
checked my CG calculations I was a little light. No drama. Performs
like it should. It'll spin even with the CG forward, just not as easily.
I like the beefy undercart. But it does make getting in and out of
the cockpit a bit of an exercise. The tail is heavy, which makes
getting the tail dolly on a two man job unless you don't need
your back. I'd like one of those nice lifter things I've seen some
other big twins using.
--
Philip Plane _____ phi...@xinqu.net
|
---------------( )---------------
Glider pilots have no visible means of support
Stephen Haley
comfortable. The BIG downside is the total lack space in the front for any
bits and pieces - cant even cary a camelbak there. Evereything needs to be
stored in the back bar a few tiny bits that will fit in the miniscule pocket
in the front. Add the lack of storage space to the fact that the rudder
pedals from the back are open and you have a recipe for disaster with
someone in the front trying to store a bottle beside them and it falling
down and blocking the back rudder pedals. Also I find unless I am carefull
my right elbow is always resting just by the back right pedal and keeps
getting wacked by them. Why the designer left them open is beyond me.
Unfortunately it flys like a dream which makes it hard to criticise with the
one exception that I wish it had more serious dive brakes. I havnt flown a
DG1000 but it is certainly far more comunicative than a 505 and thus very
easy too centre. Again I have never spun one but it certainly tells gives
you plenty of warning.
The only caveat I have over the front seat is that I need to move the seat
back up for landing/takeoff in order to see over the coaming but this can
easily be done and is only necessary for the shorter pilot and I wish the
air brakes were a bit more effective.
rgds
Stephen
"Philip Plane" <phi...@null.xinqu.net> wrote in message
news:slrncg5ppp...@nessie.xinqu.net...
Ruud Holswilder
wrote:
Why is the stall so important to you?
I own a DDT and have about 340 hours in it.
I have not flown a DG1000 yet, but I have lots of hours in contests
flying against a DG1000. (2 nationals and several club contests)
My personal observations are contrary to the DG1000 vs Duo comparison
on the DG web site.
The DG1000 does certainly NOT outperform a Duo; not on the climb and
certainly not on the glide.
Simple aerodynamic rule also says that a wing with higher aspect ratio
has better glide performance than a wing with lower aspect ratio.
The DG1000 has 1 meter more wing area than the Duo at the same span,
so go figure that out.
The lower aspect ratio does however allow the DG1000 to climb better
in very weak lift conditions.
In general the DG1000 has more comfort for tall pilots, the finish of
the glider is better than the Duo and they certainly put in better
"iron works".
Also the landing gear is much more comfortable than the stiff gear of
the Duo.
But I don't care, I make only one landing a day and pick out the
landing area carefully ;-)
I think for a club the multiple purpose "work horse" DG1000 would be
the best choice, but if you're a glider racer, you better buy the
"race horse" Duo Discus.
Finally, I think the Duo certainly looks much better ;-)
John Galloway
front cockpit design but after a couple of hundred
hours in a Duo T and Duo I thought a bit differently.
I tied my Camelbak horizontally behind the top of
the seat back and it worked fine. Maps tucked conveniently
beside me in the seatpan. My sandwiches (or camera)
fitted nicely into the empty ballast weight bin just
in front of the seat pan under my right thigh. I liked
the way my elbow nestled down into the space in front
of the rear pedal and only got an occasional nudge
from the pedal if they were in the forward position.
If the rear pedals had been covered then my elbows
would have been uncomfortably high. Before delivery
I was quite critical to the factory about the issue
of objects falling in front of the rear rudder pedals
and in principle it would be better to have more separated
cockpits. I have dropped things down there but never
caused any problems.
Like all modern Schempp-Hirth unflapped gliders the
view over the front panel is not good if you are seated
too low and it is best to use shock absorbing cushioning
to raise the seating position appropriately. I had
no practical problems with visibilty although I don't
like Duos to have a compass on top of the front panel.
Duo brakes are perfectly adequate and get 8 knots sink
rate at landing speed - about 6.7:1 compared with about
5.5:1 for a Discus B - so not a huge difference.
They seem to leave the factory with the brake handle
actuated hydraulic disk brake set to come on to soon
and this makes it very hard to pull full brake in these
gliders - especially if they do not have the airbrake
actuation mod that noticeably reduces the forces -
with the mod and the wheel brake adjusted things are
a lot more easy.
It would be hard to imagine a more benign glider than
the Duo for low speed and thermal handling. You can
very easily hear the airflow buffeting when you get
too near the stall when thermalling. Pull the stick
back further and it generally just keeps turning in
a mushed but controllable condition.
The unsprung undercarriage is the one thing that remains
in my mind as a serious criticism and landings on rough
ground can be very uncomfortable in the rear seat without
proper cushioning.
Never seen a DG 1000 yet. They look ugly in pictures
to my eye but obviously a fine glider from all the
reports. Does it have the feel and feedback of a Duo?
John Galloway
Philip Plane
> Never seen a DG 1000 yet. They look ugly in pictures
> to my eye but obviously a fine glider from all the
> reports. Does it have the feel and feedback of a Duo?
eh. They're a fine looking glider. :)
The DG1000 is not as light on the controls as the Duo.
But it's nicer than any two seater I've flown except the Duo.
Also better than many older singles. Very smooth and well balanced.
But you do need the trim.
Brakes are simlar too. I did some descents from 15-16,000 to 8,000ft
at 100 knots with full brake and the Duo stayed right by the DG all
the way at round 20 knots vertical.
Sander van Doormaal
The comfort in both gliders is also very good.
But I think the DG is a bit more comfortable.
I only flew the DG-1000 from the back seat but
this like a royal throne.
A great thing about the backseat is that it is
bit higher then the front seat so forward
visibility from the backseat is better then in a
Duo-Discus.
But to quote the Dutch soccer scientist Cruiff
"every advantage has a dis-advantage"
You need a ladder to get in the backseat due to
the high position of the backseat and because the
DG-1000 was fitted with a landing gear suitable for
a B-52 this also goes for the front seat.
But I agree with Ruud the Duo-Discus looks much better
Sander
Gldcomp
DG-1000 is much nicer.
The Duo has the annoying opening between the pilot's elbows and the backseat
occupant's feet.
You can't really carry anythig in the front seat at all.
The DG is well ahead in comfort.
"Philip Plane" <phi...@null.xinqu.net> wrote in message
news:slrncg98pa...@nessie.xinqu.net...
Ruud
wrote:
>Anybody who has flown both gliders from the front seat has to agree the
>DG-1000 is much nicer.
>The Duo has the annoying opening between the pilot's elbows and the backseat
>occupant's feet.
>You can't really carry anythig in the front seat at all.
>The DG is well ahead in comfort.
>
As an option Schempp-Hirth is offering covers on the backseat rudder
pedals that are also nice elbow rests for the front seat.