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No interest in controls for disabled pilots?
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Beynes_Pilot
Jun 4, 2014, 5:20:35 PM6/4/14
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Some weeks ago, I posted a message here about a EASA-certified modification kit to allow disabled pilots to fly the Pegase without using the rudder pedals.
AFAIK, this is the only certified aftermarket device of this kind
This kit has been ordered and delivered to 10 clubs or or individuals in France and elsewhere in Europe.
This message was read by about 100 people only; an there was no answers .
Should I think that there is no interest in the rest of the world for the disablded pilots to fly single seat gliders? Or perhaps the Pegase is not a good choice out of France?
(NB : this devellopment is totally non profit, and I have no financial interest in additional production!)
AFAIK, this is the only certified aftermarket device of this kind
This kit has been ordered and delivered to 10 clubs or or individuals in France and elsewhere in Europe.
This message was read by about 100 people only; an there was no answers .
Should I think that there is no interest in the rest of the world for the disablded pilots to fly single seat gliders? Or perhaps the Pegase is not a good choice out of France?
(NB : this devellopment is totally non profit, and I have no financial interest in additional production!)
Kevin Christner
Jun 4, 2014, 7:13:41 PM6/4/14
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SH has a Discus 2T and Duo-Discus with certified hand controls.
C-FFKQ (42)
Jun 4, 2014, 10:18:28 PM6/4/14
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On Wednesday, 4 June 2014 19:13:41 UTC-4, Kevin Christner wrote:
> SH has a Discus 2T and Duo-Discus with certified hand controls.
ASK-21 has an option for hand controls front and rear.
> SH has a Discus 2T and Duo-Discus with certified hand controls.
Grob 103 had some kits out for hand controls. My club has one that we received and STC for controls in both seats of a G-103T, waiting for regulatory go-ahead to install in a second Grob 103 Acro.
Krosno/Peregrine had hand controls.
Perkoz has option for hand controls in the front seat.
It's nice that the Pegase has an option for hand controls. I only knew about the Discus for single-seat ships. However, still need to train in a two-seater with hand controls before they can fly a single ship, if you have one with hand controls.
-John Brake
Freedom's Wings Canada
www.freedomswings.ca
Cookie
Jun 4, 2014, 10:32:42 PM6/4/14
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We are very interested in the hand controls...but we also need the big white thing that they connect to.
Cookie
FWI International
Cookie
FWI International
Chris Nicholas
Jun 5, 2014, 6:00:12 AM6/5/14
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In the absence of other responses, FWIW (I am not an expert but
have heard a bit):
There is definitely some interest in disability aids, but imho not
enough.
Some UK clubs have 2-seaters with hand rudder controls. At least
one 1-armed pilot/instructor flies. At least one paraplegic
pilot/instructor flies too.
The BGA approved some modifications, pre-EASA. I don’t know
what the status of such modifications now is.
(I have a passing interest too – due to wearing a caliper and raised
boot on one leg, I cannot fly as PIC on most K21s because I cannot
get my foot into the rudder pedal hoop, and several glider types I
cannot happily fly because I have difficulty in getting full right
rudder. I can just do it in my Lak 17A FES, so am happy with that.)
I wish more clubs had disability-friendly 2-seaters, but most seem
to do little or nothing until a disabled person joins them and then
they take action. One or two have deliberately adopted a policy of
accommodating disabled pilots, and i wish more had done so.
Chris N
have heard a bit):
There is definitely some interest in disability aids, but imho not
enough.
Some UK clubs have 2-seaters with hand rudder controls. At least
one 1-armed pilot/instructor flies. At least one paraplegic
pilot/instructor flies too.
The BGA approved some modifications, pre-EASA. I don’t know
what the status of such modifications now is.
(I have a passing interest too – due to wearing a caliper and raised
boot on one leg, I cannot fly as PIC on most K21s because I cannot
get my foot into the rudder pedal hoop, and several glider types I
cannot happily fly because I have difficulty in getting full right
rudder. I can just do it in my Lak 17A FES, so am happy with that.)
I wish more clubs had disability-friendly 2-seaters, but most seem
to do little or nothing until a disabled person joins them and then
they take action. One or two have deliberately adopted a policy of
accommodating disabled pilots, and i wish more had done so.
Chris N
son_of_flubber
Jun 5, 2014, 9:14:26 AM6/5/14
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I understand that the post is focused on hand controls, and those are of course a great thing to implement, but the issue of adaptation to disabilities in soaring is in fact a much broader and bigger issue.
For example, the disability that is on the rise in the present growing-older/weaker/heavier USA glider pilot population is simply the inability to get into and out of the glider.
I know older rowers who quit sculling because they cannot get into or out of their boats any more. I know some glider pilots who can barely get out of their gliders and it would be a shame if they quit. Has anyone started to use a hoist to get pilots into their gliders?
Has anyone done some simple modifications that make it easier to get in and out of the glider? A sky-hook would come in handy lots of days.
For example, the disability that is on the rise in the present growing-older/weaker/heavier USA glider pilot population is simply the inability to get into and out of the glider.
I know older rowers who quit sculling because they cannot get into or out of their boats any more. I know some glider pilots who can barely get out of their gliders and it would be a shame if they quit. Has anyone started to use a hoist to get pilots into their gliders?
Has anyone done some simple modifications that make it easier to get in and out of the glider? A sky-hook would come in handy lots of days.
Dan Marotta
Jun 5, 2014, 9:37:22 AM6/5/14
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Remember the "ejection seat" developed by DG several years back? It
involved a bladder which was quickly inflated by a CO2 cartridge and
lifts the pilot high enough to simply roll out in an emergency. I don't
see why a less energetic version could not be developed. Something
inflated much more slowly by a battery powered pump run off of the
ship's battery. With something like this, one wouldn't have to wait for
a hoist or crane to be rolled out.
I find I can still get out of my ship by pulling a foot back and getting
a firm plant on the cockpit floor but, eventually, I might have to start
unstrapping my parachute to climb out.
Dan Marotta
involved a bladder which was quickly inflated by a CO2 cartridge and
lifts the pilot high enough to simply roll out in an emergency. I don't
see why a less energetic version could not be developed. Something
inflated much more slowly by a battery powered pump run off of the
ship's battery. With something like this, one wouldn't have to wait for
a hoist or crane to be rolled out.
I find I can still get out of my ship by pulling a foot back and getting
a firm plant on the cockpit floor but, eventually, I might have to start
unstrapping my parachute to climb out.
Dan Marotta
mzi...@hotmail.com
Jun 5, 2014, 10:04:57 AM6/5/14
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Sounds like something from the movie Wall-e....
C-FFKQ (42)
Jun 5, 2014, 10:52:45 AM6/5/14
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On Thursday, 5 June 2014 09:14:26 UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
> Has anyone done some simple modifications that make it easier to get in and out of the glider? A sky-hook would come in handy lots of days.
My club, York Soaring Association has the founding chapter of Freedom's Wings Canada, started by Charles Petersen after meeting Ray Temchus in Florida with Freedom's Wings International.
> Has anyone done some simple modifications that make it easier to get in and out of the glider? A sky-hook would come in handy lots of days.
One of our members, Martin Sanderse, modified an electric golf cart to have a manual hoist (500lb capacity) that can use either a hoyer-type sling or the Sure Hands lifting device. With this cart, we can lift a person out of the wheel chair and safely place him/her into our glider (2 with hand controls), then reverse the process after the flight. We have done this hundreds of times.
We have also trained pilots with physical disabilities, including the first paraplegic glider instructor in Canada.
-John Brake
Freedom's Wings Canada - Toronto @ York Soaring
son_of_flubber
Jun 5, 2014, 11:51:27 AM6/5/14
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aepv.egy...@gmail.com
Jun 5, 2014, 3:50:39 PM6/5/14
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Le jeudi 5 juin 2014 02:18:28 UTC, C-FFKQ (42) a écrit :
> It's nice that the Pegase has an option for hand controls. I only knew about the Discus for single-seat ships. However, still need to train in a two-seater with hand controls before they can fly a single ship, if you have one with hand controls.
> -John Brake
>
> Freedom's Wings Canada
>
> www.freedomswings.ca
Yes, we know that, and the "only" in my message refered to an aftermarket kit(as Centrair, the original builder of the Pegase, which have in the past marketed their (quite poor)own hand controls kit, has no more interest in this activity.)
> It's nice that the Pegase has an option for hand controls. I only knew about the Discus for single-seat ships. However, still need to train in a two-seater with hand controls before they can fly a single ship, if you have one with hand controls.
> -John Brake
>
> Freedom's Wings Canada
>
> www.freedomswings.ca
In fact, the Beynes soaring club (the soaring airfield closest to downtown Paris ) owns both a K21 and a Duo Discus Turbo originally equiped by the manufacturers with hand controls.
We have a disabled flight instructor; and the question was to transition the disabled solo student pilots to a single seater. The kit was entirely developed and certified by club members on their spare time.
son_of_flubber
Jun 5, 2014, 7:33:24 PM6/5/14
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Coupled to a 12V air compressor, this would probably do the trick http://www.petersenproducts.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ItemCode=16151515
Lift height of 9" and less than an inch thick. Lift capacity is 14 tons!
On Thursday, June 5, 2014 9:37:22 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Lift height of 9" and less than an inch thick. Lift capacity is 14 tons!
On Thursday, June 5, 2014 9:37:22 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Martin Sanderse
Jun 6, 2014, 11:22:22 AM6/6/14
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You can find the details of the hoist on page 14 of the "Free Flight"
magazine at the following link:
http://www.sac.ca/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=458&Itemid=88
>One of our members, Martin Sanderse, modified an electric golf cart to
>have=
magazine at the following link:
http://www.sac.ca/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=458&Itemid=88
>One of our members, Martin Sanderse, modified an electric golf cart to
> a manual hoist (500lb capacity) that can use either a hoyer-type sling
or
>=
or
>the Sure Hands lifting device. With this cart, we can lift a person out
>of=
> the wheel chair and safely place him/her into our glider (2 with hand
>cont=
>rols), then reverse the process after the flight. We have done this
>hundre=
>ds of times.
>
>We have also trained pilots with physical disabilities, including the
>first=
>
>We have also trained pilots with physical disabilities, including the
Cookie
Jun 7, 2014, 8:39:45 PM6/7/14
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I have been working on such a device for Freedom's Wings International. One prototype used tire inner tubes...later, better prototype uses a clear plastic 5 gallon water container....really cheap...works great with compressed air from a tank...lifts you easily 9"...brings the butt about level with the gunwales of the Grob 103...AB people can then just wing the legs over and down to the ground...and almost in standing position..
Cookie
Cookie
son_of_flubber
Jun 9, 2014, 9:52:32 AM6/9/14
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On Saturday, June 7, 2014 8:39:45 PM UTC-4, Cookie wrote:
> ... better prototype uses a clear plastic 5 gallon water container....really cheap...works great with compressed air from a tank...lifts you easily 9"...brings the butt about level with the gunwales of the Grob 103..
2Ck%3Acollapsible%20water%20container
That's a clever idea. There are many types of collapsible/inflatable water containers available. Which type works for you?
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=collapsible%20water%20container&sprefix=collapsible+water+co%2Caps&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Acollapsible%20water%20container
We had two mid-80's age glider ride patrons last weekend and even though they were lightweights, getting out afterwards was hard. For occasional use, the airbag approach might be easier to implement than the more elaborate alternatives, and the price is right (the lift bag that I linked costs 100's of dollars).
> ... better prototype uses a clear plastic 5 gallon water container....really cheap...works great with compressed air from a tank...lifts you easily 9"...brings the butt about level with the gunwales of the Grob 103..
2Ck%3Acollapsible%20water%20container
That's a clever idea. There are many types of collapsible/inflatable water containers available. Which type works for you?
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=collapsible%20water%20container&sprefix=collapsible+water+co%2Caps&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Acollapsible%20water%20container
We had two mid-80's age glider ride patrons last weekend and even though they were lightweights, getting out afterwards was hard. For occasional use, the airbag approach might be easier to implement than the more elaborate alternatives, and the price is right (the lift bag that I linked costs 100's of dollars).
Cookie
Jun 9, 2014, 8:49:05 PM6/9/14
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Yep..the one on the top of the page....I got at Wal Mart for about $10...I removed the handle...and installed a long rubber hose that runs up along the back of the glider seat..I just fold and pinch the hose to hold the air...only needs to be full for a short time when entering of exiting..I just use an air gun with a rubber tip attached with an air storage tank. You can go up and down maybe 4 times on a tank of air..The person needs to be able to steady themselves by holding on the the gunwales, or have a helper keep them steady, or else they can tip over while they rise.
I put a thin but firm seat cushion over the water container to make it comfortable to sit on.
I figure the plastic container will eventually crack and leak...so for $10 you get an extra!
Cookie
son_of_flubber
Jun 10, 2014, 8:58:39 AM6/10/14
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On Monday, June 9, 2014 8:49:05 PM UTC-4, Cookie wrote:
> Yep..the one on the top of the page....
You mean this one? http://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Products-Poly-Bagged-Fold-A-Carrier-Collapsible/dp/B001QBZI90/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1402404755&sr=8-1&keywords=collapsible+water+container
> Yep..the one on the top of the page....
(Posting the direct link to this bag for the RAS archives because the Amazon list order will change over time.)
>I got at Wal Mart for about $10...I removed the handle...and installed a long rubber hose that runs up along the back of the glider seat..
david.ni...@gmail.com
Dec 15, 2015, 1:12:20 PM12/15/15
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Details already from Walking on Air and from Handiflight in Belgium via Hans Claes
Of course we're interested but there seems to be a shortage of good used Pegase gliders
Of course we're interested but there seems to be a shortage of good used Pegase gliders
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