AS 33

[Ross]

No K, no W, no H and no G, simply AS 33

https://www.alexander-schleicher.de/en/alexander-schleicher-presentsthe-as33/

Nice

[gregg...@gmail.com]

Brings new meaning to the phrase 'I think I'll fly the thirty three today'

[Paul T]

Big winglets!!!

[Paul T]

Big winglets!!!

[victori...@gmail.com]

The JS-3 is gonna spank it’s pee pee.

[Paul T]

At 19:35 04 July 2018, victori...@gmail.com wrote:
>The JS-3 is gonna spank it=E2=80=99s pee pee.
>
In the looks department anyway.......

[Charlie Quebec]

If the JS3 had quality control it might. Ive seen 4 new ones with faults from factory so far.
I wouldnt touch anything Jonkers after seeing the defects.

[Waveguru]

What were the defects?

Boggs

[benso...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 9:07:47 PM UTC-4, Charlie Quebec wrote:
> If the JS3 had quality control it might. Ive seen 4 new ones with faults from factory so far.
> I wouldnt touch anything Jonkers after seeing the defects.

Please do tell; what registry and ID would they be? And after identifying, please share exactly what defects disturbed you?

[Charlie Quebec]

3 x faulty tail wheel cable swaging.
1x engine hinge hole drilled thru radio coax, and leaking water from outer panel rear drag pin.
All brand new from factory.
That’s all the info you need, in deference to the repairer, that’s all your getting.
All seen by in person.

[Paul T]

At 04:51 05 July 2018, Charlie Quebec wrote:
>3 x faulty tail wheel cable swaging.=20

>1x engine hinge hole drilled thru radio coax, and leaking water from
outer

>=
>panel rear drag pin.=20
>All brand new from factory.=20
>That=E2=80=99s all the info you need, in deference to the repairer,
>that=E2=
>=80=99s all your getting.

>All seen by in person.
>

and S/H DG. ASW etc have had no quality control issues in the past? Come
on.

[Paul T]

At 03:00 05 July 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
>On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 12:35:02 PM UTC-7, victori...@gmail.com
>wrote=

>:
>> The JS-3 is gonna spank it=E2=80=99s pee pee.
>

>Rather bold unsubstantiated claim. While Jonkers is a welcome addition
to
>=
>the list of manufacturers, Schleicher has built more ASG-29's than
Jonkers
>=
>has total aircraft. I bet Schleicher knows a thing or two on how to make
>t=
>heir new glider slip a bit better.
>
Yeah the 28 and 30 and 31 have been real world beaters

[Paul T]

At 04:51 05 July 2018, Charlie Quebec wrote:

>3 x faulty tail wheel cable swaging.=20

>1x engine hinge hole drilled thru radio coax, and leaking water from
outer

>=
>panel rear drag pin.=20
>All brand new from factory.=20

>That=E2=80=99s all the info you need, in deference to the repairer,
>that=E2=
>=80=99s all your getting.

>All seen by in person.
>

First V3a - undercarriage collapse today at the worlds see Adam Woolleys
FB page.

[Ron Gleason]

Adam just popped a tube today, all is good with him and the plane. One more practice day before the real circus begins

[Paul T]

Apologies read his post wrong.

[Charlie Quebec]

Ive never seen any of those brands in the same repair shop with faults from new.
Perhaps instead of hand waving you could show some examples?
Yeh, I thought not.

[Ben Coleman]

To be fair, all the discus family with spar bonding issues iirc.

Cheers Ben

[mark...@aol.com]

Where to start?

AS-W20 wing angle of incidence wrong on many brand new ships. Many -20's required new control surfaces.

Numerous modern ships of all flavors with significant "spar waves". Same with gel coat that was failing from when shipped. If gliders were pickups, there would be class action lawsuits over these issues.

Recent bolt issues in Wankel engines.

Numerous examples of all brands where the as-built ship does not match the blueprints in either the composite structure or the hardware install.

Not that i could ever afford it, but I would never buy a brand new ship. All are one-off handbuilt with lots of opportunity for operator error.

[Ross]

Having worked for a German manufacturer it is safe to say that there are issues with all of them. Whether it be SH, AS or DG. These are all hand made products, made to the highest standards, but even then it is possible for things to slip through the gaps.

It wasn't the direction I thought this thread should have gone in....

I hope the new 33 is as good as they hope after the marginal success of the 30 and 31.

[Justin Craig]

Not a collapse,

Punctured tyre.

[jpg...@gmail.com]

On delivery. Gliders I have bought new:

LS7: OK
Discus Bt OK - but it was completed and fitted out in the UK.

Duo T - TE tube not connected in the fin.

Discus 2cT - a tailplane rigging knob found to be stuck between the base of the fin and rudder (presumably dropped down form the top in the factor.

JS1c - fin ballast dump valve blocked. I spent 2 full days at the factory inspecting, test flying and collecting that one and we all still missed it.

Like someone else said, they are all hand built. They go through different fittings installations depending on the owner's requirements. I'd happily buy from JS, SH or Schleicher and am waiting for a Ventus at present.

[victori...@gmail.com]

JS-1C............’Da Bomb!!!!

[jpg...@gmail.com]

Another motor glider as successful as the ASH 31? There are 291 Ventus 2cM (including X variants) self launchers listed on the Rcawsey.co.uk site against 154 ASH 31s (although the latter list hadn't been updated recently). Also more self launching than turbo Ventus's are listed. I don't expect these figures to be entirely accurate on a spotter site but the point to the, for me very surprising, fact that SH are a major manufacturer of self launchers that are mostly registered into the large German market.

[bu.u...@yahoo.de]

ASH31 was sold in an amount the other manufactures can dream of!

[Paul T]

At 22:59 06 July 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:


As for the ASW-28, standard is dead, and Schleicher never made a
seriously competitive Standard class glider. Although
>=
>I thought my ASW-24 was on par with a Discus in the run, maybe slightly
>bet=
>ter, I thought it did not climb as well, but it had a forward hinged
>canopy=
> instead of the silly side hinged.


Hmmn Std Class dead? - 2nd largest class by number of entries at the
Worlds, after Club Class. Seem to remember the ASW 19 winning one or
two comps before the LS4 came along, and its won 3 World Champs.

[Ian]

On 07/07/2018 00:59, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

> Schleicher and Schempp have a long history of making great gliders. Jonkers has started that tradition too, however they have only produced a handful of gliders compared to the other two listed.

The Jonkers started out with the aim of building a world class 18m ship.
In the upcoming world championships 17 out of 46 in the 18m class are
Jonkers so I guess they have achieved that.

I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against 28m
gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32
entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries! They
have changed the nature of open class.

Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m championship.
They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday.

Of course there are no Jonkers gliders in the club class! Most of the
club class fleet were built when the Jonker brothers were still at school.

What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they have
designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are
competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they have
managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype to
production and certification.

[Chris Wedgwood]

I agree 100%. What is not said here is that what great and helpful people the Jonkers are.

I don't have one of their planes; but when making the JS-1 for Condor Simulator, they have been really responsive to my questions.

Now its done, I asked for JS-3 data - they sent me the 3D nodel from their CAD system!

[Brett]

I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against 28m
gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32
entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries! They
have changed the nature of open class.

Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m championship.
They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday.

What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they have
designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are
competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they have
managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype to

production and certification.[/QUOTE



... and of course the JS1's hold the current titles in both 18m and
Open classes of the WGC. With a bit of help from their pilots of
course... ;-)




--
Brett

[Paul T]

At 16:18 09 July 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

>On Sunday, July 8, 2018 at 11:26:25 PM UTC-7, Ian wrote:
>> On 07/07/2018 00:59, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

>>=20

>> > Schleicher and Schempp have a long history of making great
gliders.

>Jo=

>nkers has started that tradition too, however they have only produced
a

>han=

>dful of gliders compared to the other two listed.

>>=20

>> The Jonkers started out with the aim of building a world class 18m

ship.=
>=20

>> In the upcoming world championships 17 out of 46 in the 18m class

are=20

>> Jonkers so I guess they have achieved that.

>>=20

>> I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against

28m=20
>> gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32=20

>> entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries!

They=20

>> have changed the nature of open class.

>>=20

>> Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m

championship.=20

>> They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday.

>>=20

>> Of course there are no Jonkers gliders in the club class! Most of

the=20

>> club class fleet were built when the Jonker brothers were still at

>school=
>..
>>=20

>> What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they

have=20
>> designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are=20

>> competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they

have=20

>> managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype

to=20
>> production and certification.
>
>Jonkers have saved the open class. Too bad the Quintus didn't make it
to
>f=
>ull production, I understand it handles MUCH better than a JS-c-21.
>Hoping=
> SH makes a Nimbus 5 or Quintus 2 or AS makes a follow on to their
amazing
>=
>ASW-22. I loved the open class, in the air, not so much on the ground.

You could have bought an Antares 23......
>

[jpg...@gmail.com]

On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 5:18:30 PM UTC+1, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

> Jonkers have saved the open class. Too bad the Quintus didn't make it to full production, I understand it handles MUCH better than a JS-c-21. Hoping SH makes a Nimbus 5 or Quintus 2 or AS makes a follow on to their amazing ASW-22. I loved the open class, in the air, not so much on the ground.

The handling of the JS1c 21m is very nice indeed - not much different off tow from the original 18m version. I had one for 4 years and never had the slightest problem with it. The only (and now well known) issue is that the fully ballasted wing loading of about 60 kg/m2 requires that the pilot ensures that the aerotow speed is adequate.

[Andor Holtsmark]

At 19:37 09 July 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

>
>No, if Lange couldn't work with SH to get them the data they needed to
get
>the quintus certified, they why would they work with me any better?
>

Incorrect,
S-H has had all data from Lange required to certify the Quintus for many
years now. Lange actually re-did the certification documentation multiple
times in order to accommodate for more weight of non-loading parts.

"Wer lesen kann ist klar im vorteil"

https://www.lange-aviation.com/en/produkte/andere-produkte/quintus/

.And if you like the Q, then you really ought to try the A23..

[christoph...@googlemail.com]

Now with the AS33, the trend towards higher wing loading continues.

If you have 18m and open class in one competition (which is often the case), tow planes should be capable of towing 60kg/m² gliders at a safe speed with decent climb rates. They should also allow for 850kg MTOW on the rope for the Nimbus 4T waiting in the grid. There are not so many tugs available with this combination.

What would you consider to be a safe aerotow speed with a 21m-JS1c when fully ballasted?

[jpg...@gmail.com]

Fully ballasted 70 knots minimum at all times (especially low down) what the manual specified. NB I interpreted that as being on the glider ASI as some tug types ASIs over-read significantly in the air. Pawnees seem to over-read by 5-7 knots probably due to not having accurate static pressure inputs so I asked for 75 knots with them. I always kept radio contact with the tug pilot.

My own club only had a 100 hp Eurofox so I never aerotowed the 21m there at more than 550kg and it wafted along happily at 65 knots.

[krasw]

For race, you would want exatcly "low energy glider", competitions are not flown at vne & FL180. I wouldn't call V3 that, but if it will come out as good climbing glider it is a winner. Historically, almost all really succesful gliders are best climbers in it's class ( Discus, V2, LS8 etc.) Haven't had chance to compare my ASG29 to V3 yet but i do think that JS3's are not better (with 15m tips). With 18m wings it might be different story.

[louis.a...@gmail.com]

You are wrong concerning the 28 : it never made results in the standard class. It never broke the LS8 and discus2A domination. A good glider but not a beater.
The 30 was a failure in competition : too heavy, exceeding weight limit. Definitely not à beater.
The 31 is a good cross country glider but not a beater in competition.
The ASG29 was and still is a beater in competition !

[Colten Coughlin]

On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 8:59:16 AM UTC-5, gregg...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 6:46:45 AM UTC-4, Ross wrote:
> > No K, no W, no H and no G, simply AS 33
> >
> > https://www.alexander-schleicher.de/en/alexander-schleicher-presentsthe-as33/
> >
> > Nice
>
> Brings new meaning to the phrase 'I think I'll fly the thirty three today'

ha! lol