XCSoar date? Help needed

[SAM]

Howdy,
I've been using XCSoar on my phone for several years. Recently moved to a 7" Android tablet mounted on the panel. Love it except the log files it's generating are dated 2001 and therefore rejected by OLC. The date reported by the tablet OS is correct and in XCSoar Config/Setup/Time it doesn't matter whether I have "Use GPS time" on or off, it's still reporting the flight date in 2001. Compared to my phone, I find that my phone has no config setting for "Time" although both are android and both are running XCSoar 7
Logger start is set to Auto
Ideas on other settings to check?
Thanks y'all!

[SAM]

Missed a detail, the phone is running 7.7 and the tablet, a Nexus 7, is running XCSoar 7.8

[Martin Gregorie]

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 15:26:07 -0700, SAM wrote:

> Missed a detail, the phone is running 7.7 and the tablet, a Nexus 7, is
> running XCSoar 7.8

As always, when running OSS programs like XCSoar, if you see a
reproducible problem, submit a bug report describing the problem you're
seeing and what you did to make it happen.

The support team need get a clear description of what you did and what
unexpected behaviour it caused before they can fix it. If XCSoar has a
bug reporting channel use it in preference venting here or on their web
forum, and please take the time to carefully describe what you did, what
the result was, and what you'd expected to happen.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Martin Gregorie]

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 22:54:57 +0000, Martin Gregorie wrote:

Should have added: the place to report problems is on the support
website, in this case

https://www.xcsoar.org/

via their bug reporting tool, or,if they don't have one, their forum.
They WILL see anything sent to their support site, but may not be
watching rec.aviation.soaring - why should they, if their support website
has a way of reporting bugs?

[SAM]

Sorry if I came off as venting.
I've submitted a bug report on via the IRC channel linked to at xcsoar.org, but was thinking it might be a configuration error on my part that users here could provide some guidance on.
So, if anyone has advice....

[Tom BravoMike]

What is the source of the GPS data fed to the XCSoar? Is it the tablet's own GPS or does it come from other devices to which the tablet is connected (cable or Bluetooth)? You can check it in the Config-Devices. This looks like the classic GPS rollover bug.

[SAM]

Thanks Tom--it's using the internal GPS

[Tim Swait]

I'm also having this exact issue on a Nexus 7. Did you manage to resolve it? I can't find where you've reported the bug on the bug tracker.

[Chris Behm]

I recently had a great flight (as a solo student pilot, in a 1-26) and had an issue with the igc file date as well, it was labelled as 12-31-1969!!
I sent the file to a friend of mine and he was able to change it to the proper date by opening the file with notepad and manually changing the date to the proper one.
It was easy for him, and that's good since it was my best solo flight yet, at 2h 20m long, and a climb from 4000'msl to 9,000' msl.
That was the end of July.

Since then, the XCSoar on my (Galaxy Note 4) phone was repeatedly crashing (upon opening) for a couple weeks. I uninstalled it, and re-installed it. NO CHANGE!
I was about just buy an android tablet when it suddenly started working again. Never found out what was going on, but it seems to be solid now.

Regards,
"Target"/Chris Behm

[SAM]

On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 4:30:08 AM UTC-5, Tim Swait wrote:
> I'm also having this exact issue on a Nexus 7. Did you manage to resolve it? I can't find where you've reported the bug on the bug tracker.

Had two replace the hw. GPS system did a date rollover in 2019 and many systems weren't upgraded.
Got a Samsung tablet for $150 and it's been great

[kinsell]

On 9/9/21 12:36 PM, Chris Behm wrote:

>
> I recently had a great flight (as a solo student pilot, in a 1-26) and had an issue with the igc file date as well, it was labelled as 12-31-1969!!

12-31-1969 is a special date. On Unix/Linux/Android systems, Jan 1 1970
was chosen as the beginning of time for Greenwich England. With the
time offset in the U.S., that makes it Dec 31, 1969. Somewhere in your
system, time was reported as all zeroes in a 32 bit binary number.

When you work on badges, you'll need a certified logger anyway, maybe
time to upgrade from obsolete phone hardware. For casual logging, I
sometimes use a phone, but good view of the sky also means good view of
the sun, and they can shut down due to overheating on a hot, sunny day.

-Dave

[Martin Gregorie]

There's another snag which affects 1st Generation GPS receivers, i.e.
Garmin GPS II+ units, IGC loggers of similar age, and older PNAs. These
aren't able to determine which GPS epoch is the current one from the GPS
time signal. This means that, if they've been completely unpowered at any
time since the end of the first GPS epoch, in August 1999, they won't
know what time it is or where they are. So, if you have one this old,
replace it.


--

[kinsell]

On 9/10/21 10:55 AM, kinsell wrote:

> It doesn't have to be really old hardware to have that problem, I worked
> on an original Nano that had been unused in years, likely not charged
> during that time.  It indeed had the epoch problem, but fortunately a
> firmware update fixed it.  GPS time is still wrong, but problem is
> covered up by the software.
>
> Using TopHat this summer on a long flight, landed after midnight GMT,
> and the flight duration was shown as exceeding 24 hours.  The local time
> display is actually GMT, haven't found a setting to fix that.  The
> phone's time is of course set to local time.
>
>

This didn't make it to Google because it had a small picture attached?

[Martin Gregorie]

On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 13:41:20 -0600, kinsell wrote:

> This didn't make it to Google because it had a small picture attached?
>

Dunno about Google, but your post made it here.

I read NNTP via the news.eternal-september.org server using the Pan
newsreader. It claims to be text-only, like most NNTP readers and this
newsgroup, but did show your picture, just not very well.

Its better to put pictures on a website or throw them in pastebin.com and
post the link(s) here.

[kinsell]

On 9/10/21 3:07 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 13:41:20 -0600, kinsell wrote:
>
>> This didn't make it to Google because it had a small picture attached?
>>
> Dunno about Google, but your post made it here.
>
> I read NNTP via the news.eternal-september.org server using the Pan
> newsreader. It claims to be text-only, like most NNTP readers and this
> newsgroup, but did show your picture, just not very well.
>
> Its better to put pictures on a website or throw them in pastebin.com and
> post the link(s) here.
>
>

I use eternal-september with Thunderbird, the pic came back to me just
fine. Sounds like you should upgrade your newsreader and leap to the
20th century. No need to jump to the 21st yet. Just because Google
can't figure out how to handle attachments on the internet, doesn't mean
everyone else needs to be that crippled.

Getting back to the original subject, if a gps module has the wrong
date, it doesn't prohibit the unit from getting a position lock,
although it does slow it down. But yes, people hang onto obsolete
equipment way too long. Causes more headaches than it's worth.

-Dave

[Martin Gregorie]

On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 16:13:21 -0600, kinsell wrote:

> On 9/10/21 3:07 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 13:41:20 -0600, kinsell wrote:
>>
>>> This didn't make it to Google because it had a small picture attached?
>>>
>> Dunno about Google, but your post made it here.
>>
>> I read NNTP via the news.eternal-september.org server using the Pan
>> newsreader. It claims to be text-only, like most NNTP readers and this
>> newsgroup, but did show your picture, just not very well.
>>
>> Its better to put pictures on a website or throw them in pastebin.com
>> and post the link(s) here.
>>
>>
>>
>
> I use eternal-september with Thunderbird, the pic came back to me just
> fine. Sounds like you should upgrade your newsreader and leap to the
> 20th century. No need to jump to the 21st yet. Just because Google
> can't figure out how to handle attachments on the internet, doesn't mean
> everyone else needs to be that crippled.
>

I tried Thunderbird a number of years ago. Ditched it because every few
months it corrupted its configuration and anyway it wasn't a great email
client - for email handling Evolution is streets ahead.

Still, I might look at it again for NNTP.

> Getting back to the original subject, if a gps module has the wrong
> date, it doesn't prohibit the unit from getting a position lock,
> although it does slow it down. But yes, people hang onto obsolete
> equipment way too long. Causes more headaches than it's worth.
>

...except that the GPS ephemeris tables are date-stamped and its unlikely
that you'd get correct positions if the ephemeris isn't recognised as
being for the current epoch. At least, this is apparently where the
problems come from if the epoch number gets zeroed or corrupted.

[kinsell]

On 9/10/21 4:29 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:

>
>> Getting back to the original subject, if a gps module has the wrong
>> date, it doesn't prohibit the unit from getting a position lock,
>> although it does slow it down. But yes, people hang onto obsolete
>> equipment way too long. Causes more headaches than it's worth.
>>
> ...except that the GPS ephemeris tables are date-stamped and its unlikely
> that you'd get correct positions if the ephemeris isn't recognised as
> being for the current epoch. At least, this is apparently where the
> problems come from if the epoch number gets zeroed or corrupted.
>
>

I'm thinking the date stamp comes from the local GPS engine, and is just
used to calculate how old the tables are. If everything is in terms of
the first epoch, then the age calculation should be good,

I can only relate my experiences with the Nano, the utility program
confirms the gps time is wrong by an epoch, and the unit seems to be
quite functional, with good logs produced from extended flights.

-Dave

[Bret Hess]

If you want to "recover" an occasional file with this problem, open it in notepad or another text editor.

In my case, it was as simple as changing line 2: HFDTE311269 to HFDTEddmmyy, where ddmmyy is the right date.

The file can be uploaded to WeGlide or skylines.aero, but not OLC. That's another reason to like those first two sites. The flight will be marked "invalid" for contests in WeGlide, but it will score it and it will display like any flight, which is all I care about for a flightbook and to share with buddies.

If XCSoar has to restart during flight, you can also piece together two .igc files in a text editor and post to WeGlide or skylines.aero.

Bret

[Moshe Braner]

I use WeGlide these days, but in the past I've posted hand-edited flight
logs to OLC, it marked them as invalid, but did accept and display them.
For example, when I had logger problems and had to stitch together two
files. Has OLC become more strict on this in recent years?

[Bret Hess]

>...in the past I've posted hand-edited flight

> logs to OLC, it marked them as invalid, but did accept and display them.
> For example, when I had logger problems and had to stitch together two
> files. Has OLC become more strict on this in recent years?

I don't know if OLC has changed, but it has rejected my recent XCSoar flights when I've had some interruptions, with this message:

"Attention: A recording gap over 120 seconds (19:41:14 (UTC) ... 724s) was found, which does not conform to the rules. The allowable soaring performance is therefore limited.
All deadlines for claiming the flight are in the past. You can still claim the flight, but it will receive 0 points."

...and OLC only uploads about 2 minutes or less of the track.

On the other hand, Weglide has no problems with these files.

[kinsell]

If you don't like rules, hope you don't get involved with records,
badges, or contests, because they all have rules you have to follow.

Might be better to put energy into fixing the actual problem, rather
than finding viewers that will display defective files for you. I can
log reliably with a phone mounted upright on a flexible arm, although
also have a certified logger installed.

[Chris Behm]

Yes, I will eventually have a real logger.
For me, it should be noted that I am a STUDENT pilot, flying a club 2-33 that doesn't even have a battery in it. It is "bare bones" and I have to bring my own hand held radio.
A previous instructor at the club was kind enough to use a portable flarm to log all his students' flights to Skylines. I found this of interest, and while flying in a Condor group with Mr. Bret Hess, learned that I could put XCSoar on my phone, and have a separate flight program running while interfaced to Condor, or run it in real life.
Because I certainly didn't want to be messing about with a glide program while learning to fly in real life, I thought it best to learn it at the desk while flying in Condor. Which I did.
Because I know that Bret is somewhat of a computer whiz, when I had a 2h20m flight in the club's 1-26 that got the date error, I asked him to see if he could fix it. And he did, and I am really thankful that I could see that file on Skylines once the date was fixed. Thanks again, Bret.
Yesterday, I had a 3h27m flight in the clubs 2-33, got to 9800'msl, and had a save from 4000' to 6800' late in the flight. So I am getting there.
Will I have a dedicated logger when I get my own plane?? You can bet that I will! But just not yet.
Thanks again Bret for all your support and help with XCSoar and in Condor. I hope to pay some of it forward and have been trying over here with my fellow student pilots.

How funny will it be if I get a 5hr duration flight before my check ride??

Happy landings all of you. I appreciate the knowledge pool here.

R,
Target

[Martin Gregorie]

On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 11:23:10 -0700, Chris Behm wrote:

> How funny will it be if I get a 5hr duration flight before my check
> ride??
>

IIRC ground observation by a designated Official Observer should do for
the Silver C 5 hour duration flight - assuming a lynch mob doesn't form
while you're up there doing it!

If your instructor is happy, there's no reason why you shouldn't get the
height gain leg of your Silver C as well, though you will need to be
carrying a certified logger for that.

Here in the UK its fairly common to get the height and duration legs of
your C badge before being signed off for XC flying, and then be sent off
to do the 50km leg on the first good day after you're signed off.

[Chris Behm]

Thanks Martin.
Sounds like the logger should be the next thing I get, and sooner than later.

R,
Target

[Martin Gregorie]

On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 12:03:17 -0700, Chris Behm wrote:

>
> Thanks Martin.
> Sounds like the logger should be the next thing I get, and sooner than
> later.
>

Yes, a good logger is always good to have. I'm old school, flying a Std
Libelle, using a Medion S3747 PNA running LK8000 for navigation and as a
backup (uncertified) logger, and carrying an EW MicroRecorder as my main
logger.

You may be able to find a used LXNAV Nano on eBay or glider-related
resale sites. These are portable, and so suitable for any glider with a
place to stow cameras, sandwiches etc. and should still have resale value
later if/when you no longer need it.

For that matter, if your club has no portable loggers that new solo
pilots can use, maybe they'd want it.