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Mounting camera on wing of glider

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Niclas Schopenhauer

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Dec 25, 2001, 8:15:56 AM12/25/01
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Has anyone here tried mounting a camera on the wing (or tail) of a glider?
If so, how did you do it?

All my pictures (from inside the cockpit) are pretty boring in comparison
with the pictures you see in glider magazines. I searched Google, but there
isn't much useful infomation there. A member of my club just taped a small
camera to the wing, but I'd like to use a bigger (1-2 lb/0.5-1 kg) camera,
and I don't like the idea of just taping it to the wing. That can't be good
for the camera OR the wing.

Are there any wing mounts available? Or are gliders designed for these
things. Vaguely remember something about some gliders being delivered with
predrawn wires for the camera trigger...

I'd be using a Cirrus or a Discus, and the camera would be on timer or
infrared trigger, to prevent having to tape a wire to the wing.


JohnPegase

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Dec 25, 2001, 9:46:54 AM12/25/01
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In article <g__V7.1305$8F.22...@news01.chello.se>, "Niclas Schopenhauer"
<nscho@hot_nospam_mail.com> writes:

>Has anyone here tried mounting a camera on the wing (or tail) of a glider?
>If so, how did you do it?

If you have a removeable metal skid on the wing tip, you can make a 1- 1 1/2
foot (30 - 50 cm) extension arm that can be screwed in place between the skid
and the wing, with the end bent up a little to be clear of the ground. Mount
the camera on the end of the arm using a standard screw mount ( and a bit of
tape to stop the screw moving ! ) and this will vastly improve the quality of
your pictures. Mounting it on top in the wing often means that the bottom third
of the picture is just white wing which is very boring. A friend took my
advice and then G load tested the mount by hanging ten times its weight from it
(on the ground), with no problems. The resulting pictures appeared in
Segelflug Bilkalender, including the loop photo.

Or you can make a mould of the leading edge of the wing (or tailplane) and make
a mount, again with an extension arm. this then needs a lot of tap to hold it
in place, and maybe a bungee rope rount the back of the wing. Another couple
of friends tried this method with some success. (One produced his own calendar
one year, and sells the prints as posters). I've even seen pictures taken
from the equivalent nose mount, but never seen the actual mount itself. This
sort of wing mount is addaptable to fit several gliders.

I make no comment of the legallity of this "mod", merely that it's how many
good gliding pictures are taken.


John Wright, 742

Niclas Schopenhauer

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Dec 25, 2001, 1:09:18 PM12/25/01
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"JohnPegase" <johnp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011225094654...@mb-fq.aol.com...

> If you have a removeable metal skid on the wing tip, you can make a 1- 1
1/2
> foot (30 - 50 cm) extension arm that can be screwed in place between the
skid
> and the wing, with the end bent up a little to be clear of the ground.
Mount
> the camera on the end of the arm using a standard screw mount ( and a bit
of
> tape to stop the screw moving ! ) and this will vastly improve the quality
of
> your pictures. Mounting it on top in the wing often means that the bottom
third
> of the picture is just white wing which is very boring. A friend took my
> advice and then G load tested the mount by hanging ten times its weight
from it
> (on the ground), with no problems. The resulting pictures appeared in
> Segelflug Bilkalender, including the loop photo.

Thanks, that extension arm idea sounds like the best one I've heard so far.
Have to check if the Cirrus/Discus has a removeable skid...

Do you know if he made some sort of aerodynamic cover for the camera? I
guess the aerodynamic drag from a camera isn't too big, but it must be
something. A 35mm camera with a good lens is pretty big.

Also, do you know if this changed the behaviour of the aircraft? There must
be a lot of flow separation around the camera, so if the aileron is right
behind it might get bumpy. On the other hand, if I bend up the metal arm, I
should get rid of most of that...


JohnPegase

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Dec 25, 2001, 5:26:17 PM12/25/01
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In article <ih3W7.1349$8F.23...@news01.chello.se>, "Niclas Schopenhauer"
<nscho@hot_nospam_mail.com> writes:

>Do you know if he made some sort of aerodynamic cover for the camera? I
>guess the aerodynamic drag from a camera isn't too big, but it must be
>something. A 35mm camera with a good lens is pretty big.

No covers were used

>Also, do you know if this changed the behaviour of the aircraft? There must
>be a lot of flow separation around the camera, so if the aileron is right
>behind it might get bumpy. On the other hand, if I bend up the metal arm, I
>should get rid of most of that...

Appartently it had absolutely no effect on the handling. As I've flown with
one wing full of water and one wing empty due to a leaky valve, I'd have
expected a few pounds difference in weight to have little effect.

Also all the pilots I know who did this used a very long cable release to the
camera and auto wind-on.


John Wright, 742

David Kearns

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Dec 26, 2001, 5:51:52 AM12/26/01
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I have also built/converted a mount for an Astir CS. It was based on a tip
mounted sleeve that was made of fibre glass. An arm was then built of
conticell and glass. The sleeve had been previously used to mount a cine
camera for a promo film for the RAFGSA. The arm was my addition. This was
about 40cm long. As John said, I did hang about 10 times the mass on the
end to check for any problems and had none. I flew it a couple of times
before selling my share of the glider.

Handling - it sat on the RH tip and there was a definate wing drop to the
right. This was controllable and the glider was winch and aerotowed. I
even flew a 100km triangle with the mount on. It was easier to fly RH turns
than left. It was also flown by one of the club instructors who mentioned
this change in handling. Apparently you can balance out the wings by adding
some ballast onto the other tip, but I never tried this.

The camera I used was a Pentax ME super with a 28mm wide angle. A motor
wind was fitted with a long eletrical shutter release. I found that most IR
releases only work up to 5m unless you go for a professional one. No
fairings were used. The camera was held on by tripod mount, cable ties and
a hallyard.

Hope this helps.

Dave Kearns


Niclas Schopenhauer

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Dec 26, 2001, 9:46:11 AM12/26/01
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"David Kearns" <dav...@rmplc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a0ca1b$e96$1...@newsfeed.th.ifl.net...

> I have also built/converted a mount for an Astir CS. It was based on a
tip
> mounted sleeve that was made of fibre glass. An arm was then built of
> conticell and glass. The sleeve had been previously used to mount a cine
> camera for a promo film for the RAFGSA. The arm was my addition. This
was
> about 40cm long. As John said, I did hang about 10 times the mass on the
> end to check for any problems and had none. I flew it a couple of times
> before selling my share of the glider.

Thanks to both of you for the ideas. Now I just have to get the club's
aircraft engineers to accept this idea... :-)


PIK20B

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Dec 28, 2001, 9:12:55 AM12/28/01
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One of our pilots uses a 35mm camera mounted on the wing and use the
autotimer feature of his camera to take a picture every few minutes
continuously for the number of pictures of the film.

Sync the camera timer with his watch, he has made outstanding pictures. No
cable req.

Made a styrofoam mold to hold the camera on the wing , lots of tape and
there you go.

Jean
PIK20B Bravo Mike


Olivier Dancer

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Dec 29, 2001, 4:48:45 AM12/29/01
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In the late 80's , to remote trigger a camera, I modified a cheap one
channel remote control car. Chopped out front and rear wheels, I was left
with the receiver and battery compartment, abt 2 x 1 x 0.5 inches. Taped
that to the camera. Range was about 20m, goof enough to trigger from the
cockpit...
I actually had to modify the camera since it did not have any provision for
remote trigger: Opened it and added a connector with 3 wires in parallel
with the trigger switches. A first contact takes the light measurement and a
second one triggers the actual picture.
I modified the output of the radio receiver with a couple of FET and a
capacitor to generate two signals with a small delay to simulate the pushing
of the button.
Not straightforward, but it worked great.

"Niclas Schopenhauer" <nscho@hot_nospam_mail.com> a écrit dans le message
news: TolW7.1447$8F.24...@news01.chello.se...

Svein Hubinette

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Dec 29, 2001, 9:17:44 PM12/29/01
to
There is a discussion on this topic on the Canadian Soaring Associations web
"ROUNDTABLE" discussion page (www.sac.ca) titled "Taking Air-to-Air Photos
of Gliders" from last July. The photo in question won an international award
and was printed in Aviation Week. Steve flies at SOSA gliding club and is a
professional photographer. If you look at their web site
(www.sosaglidingclub.com) you might find more of his work.

Svein


OscarCVox

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Dec 30, 2001, 12:40:19 PM12/30/01
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To folks in the UK I believe that Southdown Aero Services at Lasham have wing
and nose mount brackets for sale or rent 01256 381359.

To see the sort of results that can be achieved see www.whiteplanes.co.uk

FunSoar

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Jan 5, 2002, 3:24:37 PM1/5/02
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How many FAR'S can you violate when taking a photograph?

In the quest for just the right photo that captures the emotion and beauty of
soaring, what are we willing to sacrifice? How many FAR'S can one violate when
taking a photograph?
It begins by realizing that photos taken from the cockpit are a dime a dozen
and rarely inspire oneself or others. So, with hopes of a more dramatic photo,
one builds an external camera mount for the aircraft and flies without the
required (337) paperwork.?
Next you find that the photos taken in normal flight lacks the action and
background you setout to capture. So the next attempt is air to air. One
quickly realizes that very close proximity is required to photograph another
glider, because a camera lens distorts the distance and makes a close glider
look far away. All tight air to air photos should be rehearsed on the ground
using the sailplanes along with a review of airspeeds, overtaking, exit and
emergency procedures. You will find very few who want to have their wings
overlapping a glider who's pilot is trying to take a photo. The logistics of a
having good soaring conditions, the right gliders in the same place and near to
an interesting background when you are camera equipped, is another matter.
After scaring yourself and others, you abandoned air to air, and try
aerobatics with your external camera. This is the point when a weight and
balance is the most critical, assuming you have not had the glider near its
aerodynamic limits prior to now. Aerobatics fill the foreground with activity
but, due to the high altitude, the backgrounds still lacks the color and
inspiration needed. Realizing altitude and distance diminishes the background
color and crisp contrast necessary, for a good photo, you try maneuvers near
the ground, clouds, mountains or large identifiable structures. Large bank or
pitch angles just before landing, below 1500ft and over a populated area will
produce a dramatic photo. Another good area is next to mountains and ridges,
but you need to be close enough to see the squirrels and groundhogs.

To produce real good soaring photos, one has to:
1) Attach a external camera to the glider ( lack of a 337 ) ( no weight &
balance )
2) Perform unusual maneuvers
3) Be close to objects and ground

Partial list of FAR'S one can violate.
1) Unapproved camera mount ( lack of a 337 )
2) Weight and balance out of bounds
3) Aerobatics in an aircraft that is not rated for the aerobatics
4) Aerobatics without a parachute
5) Aerobatics under, or within 5 NM of, an airway
6) Aerobatics below 1500ft
7) Flights closer than 500ft to a structure
8) Flights closer to clouds than is permitted

The most FAR'S violated by one photo taken by myself is and published by SSA
is: 5


Dale

JohnPegase

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Jan 6, 2002, 6:58:03 PM1/6/02
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In article <20020105152437...@mb-fs.aol.com>, fun...@aol.com
(FunSoar) writes:

>How many FAR'S can you violate when taking a photograph?
>
>In the quest for just the right photo that captures the emotion and beauty of
>soaring, what are we willing to sacrifice? How many FAR'S can one violate
>when taking a photograph?

On the other hand you could fly in a country where FARs don't apply, and use
common sense when taking the photo by thinking about the things you mention
before leaving the ground. Proir Planning Prevents P*** Poor Pilot's Photos.

John Wright, 742

FunSoar

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Jan 7, 2002, 7:53:55 PM1/7/02
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You put in one line my opinion that experience and planning will improve you
chances for success, but remember planning to be dumb will never make you
smart! And how far is the out (of the USA) and return to a country that is not
so regulated?

Dale

JohnPegase

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Jan 9, 2002, 7:54:27 PM1/9/02
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In article <20020107195355...@mb-bg.aol.com>, fun...@aol.com
(FunSoar) writes:


UK a nice O/R for you. Rather a long way to go just for a picture though.


John Wright, 742

lync...@gmail.com

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Aug 26, 2014, 5:59:03 PM8/26/14
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You can mount a camera by using a very thin piece of ally, or steel, from a buiscit tin. First you need to build an aerodynamic cradle using wood. One that streamlines the camera from the slipstream, while holding it rigid. Mount the camera to the cradle, by drilling a dole through your sheet metal, then knocking the countersunk head of the screw to recess it. Typically 1/4 UNC. then simply tape the sheet metal to the wing using 2" tape (white) orientating the streamlined end of the mount with the direction of the glider. You can either use a remote control to take stills, or leave the movie mode on!! Alternatively a wooden cradle can be made to mount it to the fin of the glider.

Bruce Hoult

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Aug 26, 2014, 6:32:49 PM8/26/14
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There are a lot of gliders around with GoPro shoes permanently glued to
the wingtip! They don't come off (by accident), don't add much drag
when not being used, and have adaptors available to regular 1/4" screw
mount as well as to GoPro cameras.

Mike the Strike

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Aug 26, 2014, 7:50:21 PM8/26/14
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Cameras have also got much smaller and lighter since the OP's post of 2001!

Mike

Martin Gregorie

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Aug 26, 2014, 9:05:29 PM8/26/14
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On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 16:50:21 -0700, Mike the Strike wrote:

> Cameras have also got much smaller and lighter since the OP's post of
> 2001!
>
Yep.

My one attempt (so far) at using an external camera involved a keyfob cam
and wing tape. It worked: the camera was steady enough to give a stable,
unblurred picture and was still there after the flight.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Sierra Whiskey

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Aug 26, 2014, 11:09:27 PM8/26/14
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQqq_SDCwnA&sns=em

GoPro, Suction Mount, lots of Tape. Worked Great at high speeds and through the rain.

Message has been deleted

anderson....@gmail.com

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Aug 27, 2014, 2:11:43 PM8/27/14
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On Tuesday, August 26, 2014 8:09:27 PM UTC-7, Sierra Whiskey wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQqq_SDCwnA&sns=em
>
>
>
> GoPro, Suction Mount, lots of Tape. Worked Great at high speeds and through the rain.

I second the vote for tape.

For a suction cup mount to work you have to use a really good one that still "sucks" at the maximum altitude you ultimately reach. Judicious use of gaffers tape helps just in case you guess wrong, but with an unsprung suction cup the mount can get wobbly. you can also make a small metal plate with a felt on the bottom and a 1/4-20 bolt sticking out the top for a standard camera screw mount (or affix a GoPro mount if that's what you are using). You can tape this down to practically any reasonably flat surface.

drguya...@gmail.com

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Aug 27, 2014, 6:33:49 PM8/27/14
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Get a GoPro Hero 3. Great suction cup mounts. Remote control for video or stills using your cell phone or their remote button.

Sean Fidler

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Aug 27, 2014, 10:38:08 PM8/27/14
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+1.

I also use the GoPro suction cup and duct tape. This method has not failed me yet. I used to simply not bother with tape and had no problems for roughly 2 years (dozens of flights). Then, I had an unfortunate event where the suction cut let go after a bump on the runway. Fortunately the GoPro was completely fine. Fortunately the GoPro did not fall onto anyone from altitude. After that, I realized that the suction cup alone was irresponsible. From that point forward I always use plenty of white duct tape in a square pattern making sure do it very tightly with no gaps. Seal tape (or electrical tape) is probably not strong enough nor would it survive rain. The tape needs to be as strong as possible. Duct tape and Gorilla tape seems best and I have never had any issues with it damaging the wing surface (gelcoat or poly).

The duct taped mount method is so strong in fact that I suspect it would survive a decent size bird strike. It is extremely secure. Just make sure that the surface you are taping the mount to is clean and that you are (important) NOT trying to suction onto to an area of the wing (or tail or especially fuselage) that has a lot of curvature. I try to use the flattest possible part of the airfoil, usually 65-85% aft of the leading edge.

Happy filming!

Sean

anderson....@gmail.com

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Aug 28, 2014, 1:21:28 AM8/28/14
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I'd still recommend Gaffer tape over duct tape. It's not expensive and comes in white. Gaffer tape is a tough, cotton cloth pressure-sensitive tape with strong adhesive properties. It is used in theater, film and television productions as well as any kind of stage work. While related to duct tape, it differs in that it can be removed cleanly because it uses a synthetic petroleum-based adhesive rather than a natural rubber adhesive.

Waveguru

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Aug 28, 2014, 10:24:39 AM8/28/14
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Where can we find "gaffer tape"?

Boggs

Vaughn

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Aug 28, 2014, 10:38:53 AM8/28/14
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On 8/28/2014 10:24 AM, Waveguru wrote:
> Where can we find "gaffer tape"?

You find it where you find everything else, Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/JVCC-GAFF30YD-Premium-Grade-Gaffers/dp/B000QC7APK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1409236675&sr=8-3&keywords=gaffers+tape

JS

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Aug 28, 2014, 12:29:45 PM8/28/14
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A good place to get gaffer tape or AA/AAA/9V batteries is TMB.
http://www.tmb.com/
If your order doesn't fill the box, they use white socks for filler. Always a hit.
Gaffer tape is to duct tape what Bowlus tape is to cheap electrical tape.
Far superior, but more expensive.
Jim

Sean Fidler

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Aug 28, 2014, 8:31:24 PM8/28/14
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On Thursday, August 28, 2014 1:21:28 AM UTC-4, anderson....@gmail.com wrote:
> I'd still recommend Gaffer tape over duct tape. It's not expensive and comes in white. Gaffer tape is a tough, cotton cloth pressure-sensitive tape with strong adhesive properties. It is used in theater, film and television productions as well as any kind of stage work. While related to duct tape, it differs in that it can be removed cleanly because it uses a synthetic petroleum-based adhesive rather than a natural rubber adhesive.

Interesting. Ordered some and will try.

Thanks,

Sean

Eric Greenwell

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Aug 28, 2014, 11:52:42 PM8/28/14
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The info for the referenced tape uses natural rubber adhesive, but it
also says it " Will not leave adhesive residue behind when removed"

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

Frank Whiteley

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Aug 29, 2014, 7:16:16 PM8/29/14
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I'll ask my son when I see him. He's a theater lighting and sound stage guy and uses gaffer's tape regularly. He even had some holding part of the front body work on his car recently.

Frank Whiteley

Sierra Whiskey

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Aug 30, 2014, 1:14:23 AM8/30/14
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I use Gaffers Tape at work for various applications. It does leave residue when exposed to heat (Direct Sunlight) for some period of time. It works VERY well, however when I took my wingtip video I opted not to use gaffers tape in fear of pulling up the gel coat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVBIIHNt7Rg
This was a video I shot with the same GoPro Hero 3. I used the suction mount again on the horizontal, and secured it with regular white bowlus gap seal. It worked great! See my YouTube Channel for more Tail Mounted videos. The GoPro Hero 3 wireless control option is great for taking videos like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQqq_SDCwnA
This video I shared earlier, but again with my GoPro Hero 3 on a suction mount and secured with tape. On this attempt I used the Cloth Tape (Usually used as control surface gap seal). It worked well, and provided a better surface area for me to work with.

In Both videos, you can see that the Suction mount with LOTS of added tape is fairly rigid and works well at high speeds. I don't trust the suction mount which is why I add so much tape. The nice thing about the suction mount is that there is a lot of surface area to use when securing the mount with tape.

-SW

glidergreg

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Sep 5, 2014, 9:13:59 AM9/5/14
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On Tuesday, December 25, 2001 7:15:06 AM UTC-6, Niclas Schopenhauer wrote:
> Has anyone here tried mounting a camera on the wing (or tail) of a glider?
> If so, how did you do it?
>
> All my pictures (from inside the cockpit) are pretty boring in comparison
> with the pictures you see in glider magazines. I searched Google, but there
> isn't much useful infomation there. A member of my club just taped a small
> camera to the wing, but I'd like to use a bigger (1-2 lb/0.5-1 kg) camera,
> and I don't like the idea of just taping it to the wing. That can't be good
> for the camera OR the wing.
>
> Are there any wing mounts available? Or are gliders designed for these
> things. Vaguely remember something about some gliders being delivered with
> predrawn wires for the camera trigger...
>
> I'd be using a Cirrus or a Discus, and the camera would be on timer or
> infrared trigger, to prevent having to tape a wire to the wing.

My go-Pro 2 came with a nice square plastic plate as part of the packaging box. It has the two Go-Pro mounting tangs for the mounts. I added 8 small soft adhesive rubber/plastic feet to the bottom to give it some grip and protect the gelcoat. They were the little small clear dot type you would find under almost anything sitting on a desk. I then used real white Gaff tape to secure the plastic plate it to the wing and tail. Gaff tape will not come off in flight about $8 to $10 bucks a roll but much cheaper than a lost camera. This works great and does not depend on a suction cup holding. Unlike the Go-Pro adhesive mounts, Gaff tape can be easily removed and does not leave any residue, just don't leave it on for two many days.

(F) Greg

David Kinsell

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Sep 8, 2014, 11:14:19 PM9/8/14
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On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 15:33:49 -0700, drguyacheson wrote:

> Get a GoPro Hero 3. Great suction cup mounts. Remote control for video
> or stills using your cell phone or their remote button.

I'd never trust a suction cup by itself. Might work 19 times out of 20,
then you're out a GoPro.

Adhesive mounts for GoPro generally use 3M VHB (very high bond) tape,
intended to be permanent, but can be removed cleanly with difficulty
using heat. See "Parowan Motorglider" on youtube. Next time I think
I'll go with the gaffer's tape over suction cup mount.

david....@gmail.com

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Sep 10, 2014, 2:38:10 PM9/10/14
to
On Tuesday, December 25, 2001 5:15:06 AM UTC-8, Niclas Schopenhauer wrote:
> Has anyone here tried mounting a camera on the wing (or tail) of a glider?
> If so, how did you do it?
>
> All my pictures (from inside the cockpit) are pretty boring in comparison
> with the pictures you see in glider magazines. I searched Google, but there
> isn't much useful infomation there. A member of my club just taped a small
> camera to the wing, but I'd like to use a bigger (1-2 lb/0.5-1 kg) camera,
> and I don't like the idea of just taping it to the wing. That can't be good
> for the camera OR the wing.
>
> Are there any wing mounts available? Or are gliders designed for these
> things. Vaguely remember something about some gliders being delivered with
> predrawn wires for the camera trigger...
>
> I'd be using a Cirrus or a Discus, and the camera would be on timer or
> infrared trigger, to prevent having to tape a wire to the wing.

cant beat the go pro. use wifi to control. I have mounted them on the fuselage, tail and wing with the standard adhesive mounts with the camera, flown in excess of 125k airspeed with no issue. only problem is short battery life due to the cold at high altitudes. get the external additional battery pack.
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