Tost rings on schweizer hooks
Gary Boggs
the end. If we use an adaptor on the Schweizer ring for towing the tost
equipped ships, it gets tangled in the tail wheel. Our highly revered
aviation mechanic said "we can just use the larger ring of the tost rings."
I told him that that was unacceptable because of all the evidence of gliders
not being able to release sometimes using the tost rings on a Schweizer
hook. He said that it was only speculation that the rings caused the
problem, and it has never been proven that it was the rings that caused the
glider to not be able to release. Can anyone help me convince him that
using tost rings on a Schweizer hook is not an acceptable practice please.
Is there hard evidence?
--
Gary Boggs I-5
Hillsboro, Or.
USA
Ray Lovinggood
A friend was flying a 1-23 and could not release from
the the Tost-equipped tow line. The larger of the
two rings was attached to the Schweizer tow hook.
They said, apparently the smaller ring jammed the release.
I don't remember if they intentionally broke the rope,
or, after some gyrations, got the thing to release.
I'm pretty sure the glider did eventually get off
tow and didn't land in tandem with the tow plane.
The 'Wing Runner Course' accessed through the SSA web
page mentions that Tost rings should not be used with
Schweizer hooks. I would think a message like this
from the SSA should be good enough to convince the
mechanic.
Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
highs...@yahoo.com
difficulty releasing while using the tost hook. He said the small
ring can jam the release mechanism. His solution was to put some
slack on the line to free the small ring from the release mechanism.
He was then able to release without problem.
I have been to commercial operations that insist on using Tost rings
on their Schweizer. They claim they do 5,000 tows a year. In the
year previous to my being there they claimed they only had one problem
and putting slack in the line solved it.
Personally I would not use a Tost ring on a Schweizer tow release.
MKEENE221
Slack in the rope helped on all but one that I know of. On that one, the
towpilot thought the glider released and started to descend. With the release
jammed the 1-26 pilot was just a passenger until the rope broke at a speed over
redline.
We use Tost rings on the main rope and Schweizer adapters for all Schweizer
ships now.
Mark
Charles Yeates
Charles
Tony Verhulst
>
> Why not ask Paul Schweizer?
No point. You know what the lawyers will make him say.
Tony "6N"
Steve Corlew
MKEENE221 wrote:
> We had it happen at least three times at TSA. Each time it was on a 1-26.
> Slack in the rope helped on all but one that I know of. On that one, the
> towpilot thought the glider released and started to descend. With the release
> jammed the 1-26 pilot was just a passenger until the rope broke at a speed over
> redline.
>
Not that I needed further evidence, but that last bit there is one scary
story.
Steve
Dan Mockler
Each event occurred after the tow plane slightly tugged the glider while
taking out the slack. This created a small loop in the tow rope. As soon
as the tow pilot saw a taught rope, he hit the power. As the tow plane
started to move forward, the loop collapsed suddenly. If I remember
correctly, the ring would hang on the back of the latch. To release this
type of tow hook, you have to have some force applied to the hook.
Otherwise, the hook will not move out of the way allowing the latch to
disengage. Pull as hard as you like without releasing. You could feel
the latch move some but still would not release. I was one of the lucky
ones. I was able to release by allowing a slight loop in the rope, by
speeding up, and a gentle tug on the release knob. I think that it was a
great day for racing.
As Mark reported, one other pilot did have a little distress before
getting away........
After this event we attempted to reproduce the fault. It was amazing how
often we were able to hang the ring, on the back of the latch, with a
simple flip of the rope.
Dan Mockler
ASW 20 BL - 3M
Formerly
#182 - Sundance
Caracole
>Can anyone help me convince him that
> using tost rings on a Schweizer hook is not an acceptable practice please.
> Is there hard evidence?
There is plenty of history that the wrong rings and worn rings
and worn arms can jam a release mechanism, both SGS and Tosts.
Please use the right equipment with the right glider.
Here's the easy answer.
When you make up the tow rope for the tug, put both
styles of rings on the tow line end inside the protective
cup. No more adapters, no more hang ups on release.
No more banging around your tug tailwheel.
However, if you break the line in training or rough weather
and are teaching to "release your end", you will lose more
hardware.
Cindy B
Caracole Soaring
Stefan
> story.
The scariest part of this story is a tow pilot who doesn't feel that
there's a glider on the hook.
Stefan
Heinz
I have a drawing (in MS WORD) on my computer which shows how the big Tost Ring can slide aft (in a slack line condition) and wrap around the release-lever. Once that happens and tension is re-established, there is no way the Schweizer hock can release; you are Toast!. However, if that happens and you can get slack in the line, it may be possible to shake the ring off the release lever and get un-toasted.
Heinz
"Caracole" <cara...@ccis.com> wrote in message news:72acbc2b.02031...@posting.google.com...
Chip Fitzpatrick
that could result in serious injury or death. Use the right equipment
for the job! If the risks don't get your attention,then, with all the
literature that says don't use a tost with schweitzer, consider the
liability if something happens. Sounds like dialing for dollars to
me.
Chip
Caracole
Could you explain exactly what experiment your talking about.
Those Schweizer pilots who go to operations that typically tow gliders
with Tost releases and therefore may not have additional tow ropes
with Schweizer rings available. Should provide their own weak link
with a Schweizer ring . This not only assures that a Schweizer tow
ring is used, but it also guarantees that the proper rope strength is
provided for their glider.
If the release ever does hang up for any reason, this is by no means
automatic condemnation to certain injury or death. All you need to
do is tell the tow pilot that you can't release, then he can release you.
Of course if your one of the disappointingly large number of pilots who
don't bother to know the tow signals, then you will need to notify him
by radio.
M Eiler
Chip Fitzpatrick
ring, followed by all the attempted freeing of the ring with the
procedure suggested in another post. Sorry if I my comment lead you
to believe something else. This experiment, as I interpreted it,
discussed how to free the jammed tost ring from a sgs hitch. Doesn't
this seem to be a flight test, however unintentional? This is in
addition to exceeding red line in the 1-26, which could be interpreted
as another type of experiment.
My question; why tempt fate and use the wrong ring in the first place
when it is easily avoidable using the procedure as Cindy mentioned in
her post or using a separate adapter as at TSA and other operations.
One should use the signals or make the radio call if one is placed
this situation.
I certainly do know the signals, yet in one case noted, it didn't
appear that anyone did or possibly the stress of the situation
prevented an appropriate reaction. That is not clear. One can safely
land with the rope streaming behind, avoiding trees or lines. However,
it is isn't hard to imagine that if a pilot uses the wrong equipment,
and either he or the tow pilot, or possibly both, are not up to speed
with the signals, if as you state, the majority of pilots are weak,
the end result could well be an accident.
It is my opinion that a the decision to use improper equipment is the
number one link in a chain that could lead to an accident. Accidents
result quite frequently in injury or death.