Color Platforms for Top Hat/XCSoar

[chip.b...@gmail.com]

What color devices are pilots using for Top Hat/XCSoar? I'm running Top Hat on a Kobo Glo (large eink gray scale--great readability) and a Dell Streak 5 (smaller screen, color, acceptable readability). If the Dell were a little brighter and larger, it would be perfect.

Options seem to range from other mobile phones all the way up to the OpenVario project (at least for XCSoar). What works for you?

Chip Bearden
"JB"

[Mike C]

The 7" Streak works well - if you can find one. About the same brightness as the 5", but easier to read due to the size. I usually use the smaller Streak. These days I think color really is not much of an advantage. The real info is in the info boxes.

Mike

[Dan Marotta]

Though I have a ClearNav II in my Stemme, I also have a Dell Streak 5
running XCSoar on the right side of the cockpit. I find that each
platform delivers information that the other does not or delivers
similar information in a more understandable way. Even when I fly solo,
I run the Streak for the added information. Note that I have the
terrain display turned off as it makes for a much clearer display, not
to mention that I have a high definition canopy displaying the terrain.

--
Dan, 5J

[Martin Gregorie]

On Fri, 23 Jun 2017 12:03:43 -0700, chip.bearden wrote:

> What color devices are pilots using for Top Hat/XCSoar? I'm running Top
> Hat on a Kobo Glo (large eink gray scale--great readability) and a Dell
> Streak 5 (smaller screen, color, acceptable readability). If the Dell
> were a little brighter and larger, it would be perfect.
>

A Medion S.3747. It has a transreflective screen which is more readable
in bright sun than any of the purely backlit devices. It also has an 800
mAH removable battery.

It is a smaller screen - 3.5" - but that is a benefit if, like me, you
fly a glider with the panel inside under the nose fairing (Std Libelle in
my case) because this prevents anything from hanging out over the edge of
the panel. I'm actually running LK8000 rather than XCSoar, but that
doesn't affect this discussion.

IMO the S.3747 is worth grabbing if you can find one.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[jackj...@gmail.com]

I use a Nexus 2013 7 inch. Its best with polarized sunglasses. Otherwise there is a reflection. I have also used a moto g3 which also worked great.

[Dan Daly]

On Friday, June 23, 2017 at 9:50:40 PM UTC-4, jackj...@gmail.com wrote:
> I use a Nexus 2013 7 inch. Its best with polarized sunglasses. Otherwise there is a reflection. I have also used a moto g3 which also worked great.

I use XC Soar on an Oudie Lite; before, on a Streak 5 inch. I had connected the Streak by IOIO board, I now connect the Oudie to a CNv with the Goddard cable. I prefer the Oudie for visibility.

[greeneg...@yahoo.com]

Samsung Galaxy Note 4.
Daylight readable with polarized sunglasses
Internal GPS and barograph for backup system use.
Large very high resolution screen
many spares available
Recent android OS not obsolete windows CE type stuff - will be supported for several more years.
Wifi
Bluetooth
I used it 2 years with XCsoar and it worked great.

[Garrett McEwen]

Currently using LG G3. Works great. Replaceable battery, bright enough screen, works in any orientation with polarized glasses, excellent built in barometer.

[SoaringXCellence]

I'm currently trying an OpenVario with XCSoar. Open source all around. It's a nice system. Check out details at openvario.org. I think TopHat has a Linux version that will work.

[JS]

On Friday, June 23, 2017 at 9:04:47 PM UTC-7, SoaringXCellence wrote:
> I'm currently trying an OpenVario with XCSoar. Open source all around. It's a nice system. Check out details at openvario.org. I think TopHat has a Linux version that will work.

A couple of friends are using OpenVario. Heat can be a problem.
Jim

[chip.b...@gmail.com]

> A couple of friends are using OpenVario. Heat can be a problem.
> Jim

Didn't realize there was much OpenVario action over here. Haven't heard anything about heat problems. Are those related to the display? If so, do you know which one(s)? Yes, Top Hat Linux is available but I haven't heard of anyone who's actually done it yet. Working in the technology field, the most dangerous words are "it *should* work".

Polarized glasses don't work well with the screen of my Portable PowerFLARM.

I'm mostly OK with my Dell Streak 5 except for size so any of the phone devices wouldn't be much of an improvement.

Chip Bearden
"JB"

[JS]

Those are in Australia, Chip.
One of them looked like it was built in a PVC chassis, but I have no idea what goes into building an OpenVario. Prefer to support the people that make stuff for us.
You could probably keep an OpenVario or any other instrument nice and cool by putting it in the panel of a JS3.
Jim

On Saturday, June 24, 2017 at 12:11:42 AM UTC-7, chip.b...@gmail.com wrote:

> Didn't realize there was much OpenVario action over here. Haven't heard anything about heat problems.

> Chip Bearden
> "JB"

[chip.b...@gmail.com]

That's the solution: order a JS3!! :)

I didn't realize there was much OpenVario action anywhere outside of Europe, though I do know of 2 or 3 guys in the U.S. who are experimenting with it. It's an interesting concept for the display options, the cursor options, and as an integration platform. But it's an order of magnitude greater in cost than my Kobo and Dell Streak toys, although still well below the commercial price points.

Just to clarify, I'm looking for a LARGER color display than the Dell Streak 5 so the smartphone alternatives aren't attractive.

I haven't played with a Dell Streak 7 but everything I read in the soaring-specific postings says it's not as readable in sunlight as the 5. I'd heard the same about the Nexus 7 but haven't seen it myself, although polarized sunglasses are a stopper due to my Portable PowerFLARM screen.

My device is mounted on the right side of the canopy rail and neither the Dell nor the Kobo Glo (I'm still swapping them in and out using a Ram X-Grip) obscures any of my instrument panel.

I prefer color, one reason being Top Hat's version of autozoomed climb page that gives an overhead picture of the track through the thermal and surrounding, area, color coded for lift and sink. The gray scale version just isn't as definitive/intuitive for me.

My new ClearNav Vario's thermal assistant works very well but it's a one-circle view of the thermal with an arrow pointing in the direction of the core. I can manually switch into an overhead view similar to Top Hat's that shows my path through the entire thermal area with bubbles of lift. But then I lose the thermal assistant view. So I like to have the overhead view on Top Hat at the same time.

Until last year, the device on the canopy rail was an old Garmin GPS 76 permanently zoomed in to show my path through the thermal and surrounding area, although obviously not coded for lift and sink. More than once while in marginal lift, I've moved over a short distance only to realize I should have stayed, and then unerringly flown directly back along the breadcrumbs to my previous circle and continued climbing slowly. With my new advanced technology, it's not so simple to get the same information--at least not without a few button pushes.

So I want color for that overhead view. The Dell Streak 5 is OK. A bigger, even brighter color screen would be better.

Chip Bearden
"JB"

[greeneg...@yahoo.com]

The note series smart phones have big screens, and the ratio of screen to bezel is better than the older smart phones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_Note_series

how big to you need? a phablet phone might work for you.
Chris

[Dan Marotta]

From personal experience, the Nexus 7 is a non-starter. The screen is
simply not bright enough in sunlight to read effectively. Perhaps
shading it somehow would improve things, but on a recent flight from NM
to UT and back, I found it utterly useless and relegated it to the
bottom of the pile of stuff in the right seat.

The plan view of a thermal is one of the main reasons I run a Streak 5
even when flying solo. Mine is set up to account for wind drift so that
it's easy to simply fly the same displayed path to stay in the best
lift. My ClearNav screen, while much brighter and a terrific display of
the terrain (not withstanding the "canopy view"), does not account for
wind drift so all thermals look like stretched springs except under no
wind conditions and lift strength is indicated by the size of a
"bubble". After a few turns in a thermal, it's a jumble of blobs which
I find useless. If I need guidance back to the center of a thermal, I
simply glance at the Streak.

Yes, the Streak 5 is well obsolete, running Android 2.3.7, but it works
well and I expect mine, plus my two spares, will last the remainder of
my flying days.

--
Dan, 5J

[Papa3]

I bet there are good deals to be had on Note 7. What could possibly go wrong?

[Tom BravoMike]

Yes, Galaxy Note 4 is sun readable and I fly with regular, non-polarized sunglasses. Note 5 is said to be still better; Note 7 which I only had few days before the recall was phenomenal with the screen brightness of over 1000 nits and light sensors on both sides, front and rear, so that the screen kept the same brightness in circling. Now wait for the announced Note 8 to appear in August with the screen of 6.3 inches, probably.

[moshe....@gmail.com]

I use Tophat on a Nook e-reader with B&W e-ink display. I gladly forego color for the size and sunshine-readability of this display. The Nook runs Android 2.x and they don't make them any more, but hopefully it'll keep running for some years. A disadvantage of the Nook is that it lacks an internal GPS, I've used an external USB GPS puck connected via an OTG Y-cable, now use a serial GPS module that I hardwired into the Nook's motherboard. The latter is more reliable, but the soldering job is demanding.

[Bret Hess]

I fly with the Note 4 with polarized sunglasses. Works fine. Great device.

[Dave Nadler]

On Saturday, June 24, 2017 at 10:16:28 PM UTC-4, moshe....@gmail.com wrote:
> I use Tophat on a Nook e-reader with B&W e-ink display.
> I gladly forego color for the size and sunshine-readability of this display.

> The Nook runs Android 2.x and they don't make them any more...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/292161463922?ul_noapp=true

[6PK]

On the topic of Android devices; it would be nice to have a commercial source for an out of the box IOIO system.
It seams that the IOIO is only available in a kit form, that is in parts... soldering, etc. required, mostly over my head at least in my case.....

[greeneg...@yahoo.com]

> On the topic of Android devices; it would be nice to have a commercial source for an out of the box IOIO system.
> It seams that the IOIO is only available in a kit form, that is in parts... soldering, etc. required, mostly over my head at least in my case.....

I would like a commercial source for one as well.
Chris

[John Wells]

Another vote for Openvario running XCSoar here. I'm using the 7"
modified texim display.

No problems with heat. Did initially have crashes but traced it to a
corrupt install on the SD card. New SD card and re-install solved it. I
expect heat could precipitate existing problems / errors.

[szd5...@gmail.com]

I am using a nifty little device called Androport from Glidertools in the Czech Republic .
I use it to supply my Nook (or any other Android device) with data from my C302 plus enough power to actually charge the Nook while in flight.
When I used the phone I notice that there is insufficient power to actually charge the battery but it does slow down the discharge rate.

Unfortunately, Glidertools seems to be no more as I would like to have had another one. I'm surprised that no one else has produced such a gizmo to fill this void.

Bob 7U

[6PK]

I had several dealings with Vladimir at Glidertools: all good.
Unfortunately this business venture was either not paying off for him or maybe he got busy with other things in life....
At any rate it is rather unfortunate that there is no other source ( worldwide?) for connectors, cables, IOIO devices, etc.
Cumulus sells the Goddard products but primarily for items they market, can't say I fault Paul.

[Luke Szczepaniak]

On 6/23/2017 3:03 PM, chip.b...@gmail.com wrote:
> What color devices are pilots using for Top Hat/XCSoar? I'm running Top Hat on a Kobo Glo (large eink gray scale--great readability) and a Dell Streak 5 (smaller screen, color, acceptable readability). If the Dell were a little brighter and larger, it would be perfect.
>
> Options seem to range from other mobile phones all the way up to the OpenVario project (at least for XCSoar). What works for you?
>
> Chip Bearden
> "JB"
>

Left my XCSoar dedicated Yotaphone 2 (e-ink display) at home this
weekend so ended up flying with my regular phone Samsung S8 instead,
screen was very bright and perfectly sun readable.

FWIW

Luke

[chip.b...@gmail.com]

On Monday, June 26, 2017 at 10:49:05 AM UTC-4, Luke Szczepaniak wrote:

Anyone know how the current Samsung generation compares to, say, the Note 4 and 5? They are reported to be quite usable in sunlight, as well.

Chip Bearden
"JB"

[chip.b...@gmail.com]

Bump.

Still looking for the perfect solution. OK, better than a Dell Streak 5 or Kobo Glo. I just acquired a Pixel 2 XL: superb mobile phone but the display is not much, if any, better in bright sunlight.

We were discussing this the other day and P3 mentioned some newer Chinese phablets that might be suitable. Any ideas?

It also appears that at least one pilot has installed TopHat on an Open Vario platform running Android.

Chip Bearden

[Martin Gregorie]

On Fri, 27 Apr 2018 15:01:45 -0700, chip.bearden wrote:

> It also appears that at least one pilot has installed TopHat on an Open
> Vario platform running Android.
>

If you can find one and don't mind a 3.5" screen, I'd recommend the Medion
S.3747 navigation device. Its got a nice, bright transreflective screen,
so is readable with direct sun on it. The colours are a lot denser than
they were on the somewhat pastel iPAQs. It has a built-in pressure
sensor, 1600 mAh and easily accessable battery, a micro-SD slot (under
the battery so you're unlikely to lose the card),
can transfer data between a PC and the micro-SD card, and is a lot better
made than the average PNA, probably because it was intended for use by
walkers as well as drivers. I got mine in 2014 and run LK8000 on it.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[SoaringXCellence]

> It also appears that at least one pilot has installed TopHat on an Open Vario platform running Android.
>
> Chip Bearden

The Open Vario runs a version of Linux on a Cubieboard 2. Much faster than Android. The kits from Stefan Langer are a delight to assemble and can be "stalk" mounted if you want.
https://www.stefly.aero/

Caz Yokoyama has ported the TopHat software to the Open Vario and you can actually select either XCSoar, TopHat or LK8000 at boot, in the current system image. I've flown with both the 5.7 and 7" screens from Texim and they're both easy to see in direct sunlight.

Mike

[mikesta...@gmail.com]

Im using a Sony xperia Z3, and it works very well in sunlight. Tried a friends Samsung Galaxy 7 that worked well too.

[juli...@gmail.com]

I fly in the USA with an OpenVario I built, with a Texim 5.7" screen running XCSoar. Very readable in all conditions. I have over 160 hours on it so far over a year and a half of flying, wide variety of environmental conditions, no heating problems. It has worked great except for two in-flight freezes early on, which seem to have been resolved, perhaps by an SD card image update.

I am intrigued with TopHat for the OpenVario. Does it require a touchscreen? I currently do not have a touchscreen on my OpenVario, although I could hook one up, the interface is there. But I don't want to degrade the excellent sunlight readability by integrating a touch screen. I currently have a remote (SteFly's stick buttons/Arduino with modified code) and also SteFly's dual rotary encoder unit, and would like to stick with them. Also, any links to a download for TopHat for OpenVario?

Cheers,
Jim Hogue J6

[chip.b...@gmail.com]

Jim,

I like Top Hat and am intrigued with the OpenVario, as you will recall from my interest in your installation last fall at R4N. There is a Linux download of Top Hat on their site as I write this and I've seen reports of at least two OpenVario users who have installed Top Hat, one Android and the other Linux. No info on how well it functions.

One important factor is that Top Hat (derived from XCSoar but focused on competition) has some nice features for a touchscreen interface, the most critical one being the navigation bar at the top of the main screen. Slide it right or left to advance/return to a next/previous TP. Touch to bring up a task menu with various options. It seems to work fine on my PC in a click-and-drag mode. Can that be done with OpenVario with your input devices (SteFly stick and/or rotary controller)? I suspect, though don't know, that most of the info boxes, menus, and inputs would work similar to XCSoar.

Chip Bearden

[Ben Hirashima]

Recent Samsung Galaxy S phones have very bright OLED screens. My Galaxy S8 is quite readable in sunlight, and it's certainly better than a Dell Streak. Even my old Galaxy S6 was better than the Streak. TFT displays are overrated, IMO. The raw brightness of modern OLED displays gives you better sunlight readability.

[Dan Marotta]

What about battery useage?

On 5/4/2018 12:05 AM, Ben Hirashima wrote:
> Recent Samsung Galaxy S phones have very bright OLED screens. My Galaxy S8 is quite readable in sunlight, and it's certainly better than a Dell Streak. Even my old Galaxy S6 was better than the Streak. TFT displays are overrated, IMO. The raw brightness of modern OLED displays gives you better sunlight readability.

--
Dan, 5J

[Senna Van den Bosch]

Op vrijdag 4 mei 2018 16:04:06 UTC+2 schreef Dan Marotta:

I use an Honor 9 which can do about 6 hours on battery using full brightness, mobile data and gps. I do use a 10k powerbank to keep it topped up.

[Dan Marotta]

Battery usage - that's a non-issue.  I use the Streak because there was
nothing else even close when I started using XCSoar.  Then, since you
can occasionally get a Streak new in the box for $50, I got two spares,
so my 3 Streaks cost about 1/3 to 1/4 the cost of one Samsung. 
Battery?  I have a cable to the ship's battery.

On 5/4/2018 8:04 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> What about battery usage?

[Mike C]

On Saturday, April 28, 2018 at 3:31:38 AM UTC-6, mikesta...@gmail.com wrote:
> Im using a Sony xperia Z3, and it works very well in sunlight. Tried a friends Samsung Galaxy 7 that worked well too.

I have a Galaxy 5S with an AMOLED screen which is supposed to be great in direct sunlight, but it is not nearly as visible in direct sunlight as my sold Streak was. Are the LCD screens any better? Are the newer AMOLD screens better than the earlier generation AMOLD screens?

Thanks for any insight.

Mike

[Dan Marotta]

Hi Mike,

If you're really in need, and want a Streak, I have two spares, loaded
with XCSoar, and I can fix you up.  I got the spares because I like them
so much but they've proven to be quite reliable.  See me at the airport
or shoot me a PM.

Dan

--
Dan, 5J

[Mike C]

Thanks Dan.

Would rather have a more modern device with a pressure sensor, if I can find a screen as good as the Streak. There are reports of some being as good or better but the OLED screen (supposedly the best type) used on the Galaxy 5S is not nearly as good. The cheap Moto E phone from Republic Wireless has a better screen than the Galaxy 5S in direct sunlight, much to may surprise. Don't want to make a $500.00 mistake.

Mike

[Tom BravoMike]

Has anyone tried yet the DJI CrystalSky 5.5" High-Brightness Monitor (1000 nits)? It runs on Android, and at least in the bigger versions (UltraBright up to 2000 nits) allows installation of 3rd party apps:


https://forum.dji.com/thread-119496-1-1.html

[Richard Pfiffner]

The Ultimate LE 57 runs SeeYou or LK8000. It is actually Sunlight readable and most varios and PowerFlarm, GPS connect easily.

http://www.craggyaero.com/ultimate_le_5_7.htm

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[6PK]

I owned an S5 for about three years,and I have TopHat installed on it. I rarely used it for flying as it is very poor at best in direct sunlight.
I been using a Kobo Glow with good success, although I still would like some color for roads, lakes and landables turning green, also audible airspace warnings, etc....
I compared the S5 to a friend's S6 and there is a very notable difference, I believe it is better than a Streak ( I flown with one of those too).
Just about a week ago I finally updated to a Galaxy S9+ and wow that is really something!
I can't say for sure if it is much better than the S6 but maybe the size and the back lighting makes a difference.
Now if I could just find a reliable source for a commercially available IOIO device to work with the flight computer, it would be a no brainer.
I have tried Bluetooth connections with the Streak and I was not too impressed, but than maybe it's just me......

[Wyll Surf Air]

I use a Galaxy S7 edge as my primary glide computer and I have never had the readability in sunlight be an issue. As long as the brightest is all the way up it us great. 2 things you need to think about Is the android has an auto brightens function that should be turned off to avoid the phone changing the brightness when you fly it becomes shaded. Also any type if screen protector can hinder the sunlight readability, especially ones that are not glass.

[Dan Marotta]

Bluetooth/Streak worked wonderfully for me, but Mike's right - the Streak is getting too old and there's little or no support for it.

I have a Nexus 7 which would also work for running the program but it's absolutely useless in direct sunlight.  I considered making a sun shade for it, but found THIS on Amazon.  It's padded, flexible, and sticks to the front face of the screen.  Looks like it'll work and it was cheap enough to simply toss if it doesn't.

--
Dan, 5J

[Ben Hirashima]

On Sunday, May 27, 2018 at 6:52:40 PM UTC-7, Mike C wrote:
> I have a Galaxy 5S with an AMOLED screen which is supposed to be great in direct sunlight, but it is not nearly as visible in direct sunlight as my sold Streak was. Are the LCD screens any better? Are the newer AMOLD screens better than the earlier generation AMOLD screens?

Yes, newer AMOLED screens are definitely brighter. They get brighter and brighter every year, and they are certainly brighter than LCD screens.

[Richard Pfiffner]

Screen Brightness has little to do with sunlight readability. A very bright backlight will make a Poor screen sort of readable in the sun.

True Sunlight readable displays have a very high contrast ratio, and two specialized coatings anti-glare and anti-reflective. If a display has these features brightness is not a factor.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[moshe....@gmail.com]

Uh? Suppose that the light coming from the screen is at level 1000 in the white areas and 1 in the black areas. Good contrast in a dark room. Now add 10,000 units of sunshine. If the screen reflects even only 10% of that, the "black" areas are now 1001 and the white areas 2000 - contrast gone to hell. Brightness matters.

That's why I'm using a device with an e-ink purely-reflective display: in that case, more incident light does not change the contrast at all.

[Richard Pfiffner]

moshe,

I have been building flight computers since 2008. The Craggy Aero Ultimate, Ultimate Le, Ultimate Le 57. My first sale was to a customer that saw the display in my glider, the display was in the shade no direct sunlight, colors looked great. Then he said turn the glider so the sun is on the screen. I turned the glider and there was a shade line from the panel cover on the panel but it was not seen on the display. Then I turned down the backlight little change, shade line still not visible on the display. A true sunlight readable display. It has the following specifications extremely high contrast ratio, two specialized coatings and an adjustable backlight. Brightness matters but as not much as you think, the glare and the reflection is the biggest problem.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[Richard Pfiffner]

Or look at the YouTube on this page to see for yourself.

http://www.craggyaero.com/ultimates.htm

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[moshe....@gmail.com]

Is your display reflective? I.e., if you were to turn the backlight completely off and shown a flashlight on it, could you see the info on the screen clearly? Then that's not what I am talking about. Rather, I am talking about display types that have no backlight but rather each pixel generates its own light. I believe all recent model cellphones are like that. With enough ambient light, these displays lose contrast.

[bythes...@gmail.com]

> I have a Nexus 7 which would also work for running the program but
> it's absolutely useless in direct sunlight.  I considered making a
> sun shade for it, but found THIS

I use the Nexus 7 all the time and never have a sunlight issue - Are you positive you went into setting and have it manually set to full brightness?

The default allows the tablet to adjust.... it needs to be set on full. Best $130 bucks I have spent.

I have 2 Nexus 7's and both work great!

WH

[Dan Marotta]

Thanks, I'll try that!

I just tried the sunshade outside in the NM sunshine and it works well. 
I think I'll start it up again, check the brightness, and go back
outside.  I'll report back.

--
Dan, 5J

[chip.b...@gmail.com]

How does the sunshade impact your ability to use it as a touchscreen device? I worry that it would be more awkward, especially when trying to brace your hand against the bezel to steady your finger as it selects a screen element.

But I haven't tried it.

Chip Bearden

[Dan Marotta]

That worked really well!  Not as bright as my ClearNav, but certainly
readable.  With my sunshade installed it should really work well.

I was really tired the glacially slow performance of the Nexus 7 2012
with Android 5.1.1 so I found a way to root it and then flashed a pared
down custom ROM.  It now boots in 40 seconds, has no bloatware, and is
really fast.  The ROM is SLIMKat.  Look it up if you're a tinkerer.

[Dan Marotta]

You have to reach in pretty deeply but that shouldn't be much of a
problem for my application.  I plan to run Avare on it and feed that
from an XGPS-170 WAAS GPS and dual band ADS-B In receiver.  This will be
in my Stemme and I can set it up before takeoff and never touch it again
throughout the flight.  If I needed to manipulate it a lot, the bottom
section of the screen is removable which would allow my whole hand to
get in there.  Unfortunately, my Stemme is down following a prop strike
and it may be a while before it gets back in the air.  Waiting on parts...

--
Dan, 5J

[Mike C]

Took a chance and bought a Sony Xperia Z3 as it was suggested to be very good in direct sunlight. It does work very well and is equivalent to my wife's Samsung S8+. Open box new for $130.00. Thank you everyone for advice and info.

Mike

[mikesta...@gmail.com]

Im vry happy with mine, though I made the mistake of buying a Z3 compact, a smaller model, something to watch for.
The compact are model numbers 5xxx wheras the larger units are 6xxx.
Battery life tests have shown I can get about 9 hours at full brightness, which must be selected in settings.

[Mike C]

Flew with the Z3 for the first time today, under streets and through blue holes-really an excellent modern and affordable device.

Enthusiastically recommend it.

Mike.