ASW 20 cockpit size

[Randy Shumaker]

Hi,
Unfortunately I am unable to find any ASW 20s close by to look at so wondering if any one can help guide me on their cockpit size. I'm 6'1 220lbs and broad across the shoulders. Are they smaller than the Discus 2b's?

[Michael Fadden]

On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 10:41:39 AM UTC-4, Randy Shumaker wrote:
> Hi,
> Unfortunately I am unable to find any ASW 20s close by to look at so wondering if any one can help guide me on their cockpit size. I'm 6'1 220lbs and broad across the shoulders. Are they smaller than the Discus 2b's?

Where are you? I'm 6'1" 195 and fly a Pegasus, purportedly the same fuselage as a 20. I have plenty of room but you're quite a bit bigger. Check for any Pegs in your area. I'm in SE Pennsylvania, BTW.

Mike

[Martin Gregorie]

Agreed. The ASW 19, ASW 20 and Pegase all have the same fuselage and
cockpit: if you're comfortable in one of them you should be OK in the
others too.

Some background: Centrair originally built the ASW 20 under license as the
ASW 20F, but didn't renew the license when it ended and, instead, rolled
out the Pegase with revised wings but with the same fuselage and tail
surfaces. There are minor improvements such as:
- a front hinged canopy and panel.
- a nose cockpit ventilation inlet: if you look carefully under a Peg
wing you can see where the ASW 19/20 cockpit air inlets used to be.
- the later Pegase 90 has fully self-connecting controls: the earlier
Pegase 101 models, like the ASW 19 and 20, have Hoteliers.


--

Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[gfon...@xtra.co.nz]

I am a similar size to you and the ASW19 ASW20 are a pot bellied shape and you can slide down
in them, I used to fit with the seat back still in and with a parachute on but you can fly them with
out the seat back.
You need to try one out, try ASW20 in particular as she is a real pilots ship best of that era I think.
Get coached on ASW20 A model and their "Jesus landing flap option" prior to test flying ,B and C do not have that problem

[Charles Longley]

I am almost exactly your size and fit just fine in my ASW-20. I have 10 lbs of ballast in the tail so you need to be aware of the CG in any ship you buy. The Jesus flap isn’t a big deal (flaps 5). You can use flaps 4 initially per the POH. Good luck on your search! My ASW20L is for sale FYI. Won the Region 8 sports class with it this year.

[Dan Marotta]

Ninety degree landing flaps are wonderful! My first glider was a
Mosquito and the flap/dive brake combination was terminal velocity
limiting according to the book. I tried it and confirmed it. You're
never too high in a Mosquito. I imagine the ASW-20A flaps provide
similar capability.

Dan
5J

[Stéphane Vander Veken]

Le dimanche 7 août 2022 à 17:29:51 UTC+2, Dan Marotta a écrit :
> Ninety degree landing flaps are wonderful! My first glider was a
> Mosquito and the flap/dive brake combination was terminal velocity
> limiting according to the book. I tried it and confirmed it. You're
> never too high in a Mosquito. I imagine the ASW-20A flaps provide
> similar capability.

Well, it's impossible to check that! With the original ASW-20 in full landing flap (it is not 90°, it's 55° - with the ailerons negative -), the allowed airspeed is limited to 120km/h (65 kts), and even with full airbrakes it will want to go faster than that if you really put the nose down. If it's speed-limiting, it's outside of the allowed flight envelope, at least with somebody of my size and weight (95 kg - 210 lb, 1m85 - 6 ft 1). But you can come in very steeply indeed, and with full aileron authority.

By the way, I fit comfortably in the ASW-20, flying without the backrest, but with a parachute and a stiff cushion in the back. I can fly with the backrest, but it is a bit cramped for me.

Stéphane

[Eric Greenwell]

On 8/7/2022 8:20 AM, Charles Longley wrote:

>>>
>>> Martin | martin at
>>> Gregorie | gregorie dot org
>> I am a similar size to you and the ASW19 ASW20 are a pot bellied shape and you can slide down
>> in them, I used to fit with the seat back still in and with a parachute on but you can fly them with
>> out the seat back.
>> You need to try one out, try ASW20 in particular as she is a real pilots ship best of that era I think.
>> Get coached on ASW20 A model and their "Jesus landing flap option" prior to test flying ,B and C do not have that problem
> I am almost exactly your size and fit just fine in my ASW-20. I have 10 lbs of ballast in the tail so you need to be aware of the CG in any ship you buy. The Jesus flap isn’t a big deal (flaps 5). You can use flaps 4 initially per the POH. Good luck on your search! My ASW20L is for sale FYI. Won the Region 8 sports class with it this year.

The original ASW20 (aka "ASW20A") landing flap (55-60 degrees) allowed a steeper landing
than the later B & C models (40 degrees). It requires a bit more care to avoid undershoot
and during the flare. It was more likely to damage a pushrod in a hard landing when using
landing flap because of the extra flap deflection, and hard landings were more likely
because the flare was harder to manage.

I had a C model, and like the B model, it had a superb Cleveland disk brake. The B model
could carry more ballast, and the wings were heavier because of that.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

[R-gmail]

I believe you were asking about "cockpit size":

I'm 6'1" and 200#. Long torso.
I have sat in two versions of the -20--One was a straight -20 and the other a -20C.
The former was a tight squeeze and the latter was the largest cockpit I've ever experienced.
The -20C was roomier than my LS-4, which is a glider recognized to be quite accommodating.

Good hunting!

On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 10:41:39 AM UTC-4, Randy Shumaker wrote:

[Eric Greenwell]

I should elaborate: The ASW20A/B/C is a great glider. I flew my C model for 11 years/1500
hours, and the only reason I sold it was to buy a self-launcher, and not just any
self-launcher, but the ASH26E, because it was very much like my ASW20C: the marvelous flap
and aileron mixer with the 40 degree landing flap, lovely handling, comfortable cockpit,
and that superb Cleveland disk brake.

Charlie should also mention the ASW20 is a great ride in turbulence, as it's bendy
fiberglass wings absorb a lot of the bumps.

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

The -20a&c had the bendy wings, but limited to 9lbs wing loading.
The -20b had stiffer wings, but could go heavier.
As to the -20a landing flaps, my first couple patterns in the spring were in thermal flap. Then come in stupid high and hang it all out (full spoilers and landing flap) and watch the ground come up fast. Good to practice at home.

I have a few hundred hours in -20a&c with and without winglets, much nicer ship with winglets.

[krasw]

On Monday, 8 August 2022 at 19:59:04 UTC+3, R-gmail wrote:
> I believe you were asking about "cockpit size":
>
> I'm 6'1" and 200#. Long torso.
> I have sat in two versions of the -20--One was a straight -20 and the other a -20C.
> The former was a tight squeeze and the latter was the largest cockpit I've ever experienced.

How an earth is this possible? They share identical fuselage and cockpit.

I flew '20 for 1000 hours, and have several hundred hours in D2b. I'm 6 foot 5 and 220, no problems at all. Just had to take '20 seatback off, like in almost any glider. Discus-2b cockpit is longer (only glider I have flown with seatback), a bit narrower, and ergonomics of the seat is better. 20' is a nice glider and a lot of performance for it's price, but Discus2b is 25 years younger design and beats '20 in all aspects, except maybe landing distance (D2b has massive airbrakes, so even that is debatable). Performance difference is small when flown dry, '20 might actually have an edge in high speed. D2b needs water and high wingloading most of the time.