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Does Your Club Outsource Bookkeeping?
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Christopher Schrader
Jan 25, 2017, 1:45:08 PM1/25/17
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Does your club outsource their bookkeeping to an accounting firm or to some other bookkeeping consultant (e.g., Quickbooks ProAdviser, etc)?
Does your club use Quickbooks or some other accounting software?
Does your club use a merchant services provider to process credit card payments? If so, who? Do you know if it's tied into your Treasurer's accounting system?
Roughly speaking, what does your club spend annually to perform its bookkeeping obligations and prepare tax returns or Form 990, etc?
Thanks,
Chris Schrader, SSA Director, Region 6
Does your club use Quickbooks or some other accounting software?
Does your club use a merchant services provider to process credit card payments? If so, who? Do you know if it's tied into your Treasurer's accounting system?
Roughly speaking, what does your club spend annually to perform its bookkeeping obligations and prepare tax returns or Form 990, etc?
Thanks,
Chris Schrader, SSA Director, Region 6
bythes...@gmail.com
Jan 25, 2017, 2:29:22 PM1/25/17
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I have been Treasurer (Bookkeeper) for a few clubs I have joined.
Usually it is done by a volunteer - then an audit committee reviews things once a year. Expense is almost always an issue :)
Quickbooks is almost always the program of choice - it is easy and many people know the program, so with a little help a non financial person can do a good job.
If you need help - I or any number of other people can help guide you - it is not undertaking as long as the bookkeeper gets good info. & has good controls (that's the hard part)
WH
Usually it is done by a volunteer - then an audit committee reviews things once a year. Expense is almost always an issue :)
Quickbooks is almost always the program of choice - it is easy and many people know the program, so with a little help a non financial person can do a good job.
If you need help - I or any number of other people can help guide you - it is not undertaking as long as the bookkeeper gets good info. & has good controls (that's the hard part)
WH
IdoMillet
Jan 27, 2017, 1:41:57 PM1/27/17
to
SSA could solve this perennial problem by creating a centralized bookkeeping service and charging for it.
Frank Whiteley
Jan 28, 2017, 12:08:56 AM1/28/17
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On Friday, January 27, 2017 at 11:41:57 AM UTC-7, IdoMillet wrote:
> SSA could solve this perennial problem by creating a centralized bookkeeping service and charging for it.
That has been discussed in the past and was rejected because the SSA did not want the liability for chapter accounting. That was more related to the reliability, robustness, and replication of such a system. At the time it was considered risky.
> SSA could solve this perennial problem by creating a centralized bookkeeping service and charging for it.
Of course, IT solutions are a set of shifting paradigms. Certainly there are interesting options.
However, of necessity, the SSA server for member management and the web site was recently moved to new iron with updated operating and sql server systems. What we have is an enterprise system without the corresponding enterprise budget. The move involved two fully-engaged (at times) volunteers, hired migration services, and a couple others. Took about five weeks start to finish.
I discussed this accounting/bookkeeping service with another SSA director just Thursday, the OP of this thread. Is the 'customer base' large enough? If not the subscription cost would probably not be attractive or the system would not be cost effective.
We discussed also the ability to collect operational information and member, glider, pilot, launch and scheduling information. This was done at PGC on a homegrown project. An instance running for each operation would be interesting because it could allow collection of statistics of significant interest. It would have to be extremely simple at the defined user levels and easily modified, maintained and backed up incrementally and fully on tight schedule, plus it would have to be both accessible and secured and have long term support. Those statistical extensions would be the SSA's organizational buy-in I think.
Frank Whiteley
970-330-2050
bythes...@gmail.com
Jan 28, 2017, 9:32:42 AM1/28/17
to
I don't think the risk or complication of bookkeeping is really the factor that would prevent a SSA service offer from being a good idea.
I think the expense and the difficulty in gathering the data is the hurdle.
I am a fiance guy and have a bookkeeping service for small businesses - I am not so sure most Soaring clubs are really run like businesses. They are dependent on volunteers to stay in the black - and the technical skill of keeping the books is not all that difficult to find in the membership (usually).
Maybe a dedicated google group/ or blog on the SSA web site of Soaring Club Treasures would be a place to start - a place for advice where people can share how they do it.
Just my $.02
WH
I think the expense and the difficulty in gathering the data is the hurdle.
I am a fiance guy and have a bookkeeping service for small businesses - I am not so sure most Soaring clubs are really run like businesses. They are dependent on volunteers to stay in the black - and the technical skill of keeping the books is not all that difficult to find in the membership (usually).
Maybe a dedicated google group/ or blog on the SSA web site of Soaring Club Treasures would be a place to start - a place for advice where people can share how they do it.
Just my $.02
WH
SF
Jan 30, 2017, 1:18:43 PM1/30/17
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Our accounting is done by a couple of volunteers using Quickbooks on a dedicated pc with remote access software. We use a CPA to do the 501c tax return (it's a real bugger). We Don't take credit cards. Fairly simple to accomplish with non accounting volunteers.
SF
SF
Mike Hendron
Jan 31, 2017, 10:58:48 AM1/31/17
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Our club has been on QuickBooks for a couple decades, and transitioned to QuickBooks online a few years ago. It is easy to use in terms of distributed management (access from anywhere, and multiple users), but a bit pricey. I've looked at free options, though, and not found them comparable. QB offers an affordable integrated "pay from bank" self-service option ($0.50 per transaction), and used with e-mail invoicing it significantly reduces the physical paperwork. About 2/3 of our members pay online in response to e-mail invoices.
We also use QB for credit card processing (only for limited uses, during events). They are a bit more expensive than other solutions, but not enough that it is worth the hassle of dealing with another merchant payment solution. Having a single support line (QuickBooks/Intuit) for all financial matters has been nice.
I've been treasurer on every board I've been on (PTA, HOA, gliding club, other community non-profits) partly because I do have professional experience with finance and accounting, but also because I actually enjoy it (crazy, I know). And I've trained a number of non-accounting people on systems as well. I agree that those who are detail-oriented and interested in doing the work should be able to do this. But it isn't for everyone.
The PTA in Texas had a free accounting option available to local chapters when I was involved, but I found it clunky and problematic, and just as hard or harder to learn/use compared to professional systems. It would be hard to improve upon market-solutions out there if the SSA were to try to get into that business. And it wouldn't be a cheap endeavor.
The bigger challenge I have seen is that treasurer tasks can snowball, and they really aren't that easy to offload or distribute. It really does require a single-point of contact for payments of bills, dues collections, etc. Add to that the payment tracking of maintenance/repairs/insurance claims, buying and selling gliders and trailers (and the registrations, taxes, etc.), plus myriad other small charges and reimbursements, and it becomes a relatively constant stream of tasks. Add events on top of that (e.g., our Nephi OLC events) and tows or winch charges (if you have those as well) and that can greatly multiply the work.
Outsourcing the basic processing, while keeping the oversight and coordination with the treasurer (such as reconciling accounts to check things and producing summary reports), would be a more fair approach to spread the cost/pain across all members, rather than forcing a single person to carry the full burden. But finding a solution like that takes work as well. Sometimes easier just to stick with the status quo.
Mike Hendron
Utah Soaring Assoc.
We also use QB for credit card processing (only for limited uses, during events). They are a bit more expensive than other solutions, but not enough that it is worth the hassle of dealing with another merchant payment solution. Having a single support line (QuickBooks/Intuit) for all financial matters has been nice.
I've been treasurer on every board I've been on (PTA, HOA, gliding club, other community non-profits) partly because I do have professional experience with finance and accounting, but also because I actually enjoy it (crazy, I know). And I've trained a number of non-accounting people on systems as well. I agree that those who are detail-oriented and interested in doing the work should be able to do this. But it isn't for everyone.
The PTA in Texas had a free accounting option available to local chapters when I was involved, but I found it clunky and problematic, and just as hard or harder to learn/use compared to professional systems. It would be hard to improve upon market-solutions out there if the SSA were to try to get into that business. And it wouldn't be a cheap endeavor.
The bigger challenge I have seen is that treasurer tasks can snowball, and they really aren't that easy to offload or distribute. It really does require a single-point of contact for payments of bills, dues collections, etc. Add to that the payment tracking of maintenance/repairs/insurance claims, buying and selling gliders and trailers (and the registrations, taxes, etc.), plus myriad other small charges and reimbursements, and it becomes a relatively constant stream of tasks. Add events on top of that (e.g., our Nephi OLC events) and tows or winch charges (if you have those as well) and that can greatly multiply the work.
Outsourcing the basic processing, while keeping the oversight and coordination with the treasurer (such as reconciling accounts to check things and producing summary reports), would be a more fair approach to spread the cost/pain across all members, rather than forcing a single person to carry the full burden. But finding a solution like that takes work as well. Sometimes easier just to stick with the status quo.
Mike Hendron
Utah Soaring Assoc.
shunr...@gmail.com
Jan 31, 2017, 12:54:10 PM1/31/17
to
Bruce Hoult
Jan 31, 2017, 1:54:09 PM1/31/17
to
I believe the tablet software (which is web pages with local storage) copes ok with loss of connection, saves everything, and sends it when a connection is restores (possibly on wifi at the end of the day).
JS
Jan 31, 2017, 2:14:52 PM1/31/17
to
A way to automatically input pilots, aircraft, flight times, launch heights, etc and automatically upload to your accounting software is with Dittolog.
http://www.dittolog.com/
And of course the accounting software can automatically send invoices.
It requires a ground station and hardware from Dittolog and a FLARM in every aircraft, plus annual subscription of 30 Euros per pilot.
Perhaps just look what can be done?
Jim
Paul Agnew
Apr 12, 2017, 1:41:09 PM4/12/17
to
Back to the original question. Does anyone outsource their club bookeeping?
Taking a different tack, does anyone co-op with other clubs to share bookkeeping costs and minimize re-invention of the wheel?
We're off and running with a Quickbooks system, but our Treasurer is already running the books for his primary club and is looking to pass the job along to someone else locally. We're exploring the value of hiring a bookkeeping service, automating with a tablet to cloud system, or just finding a club volunteer to take over.
With all of the experience out there among the other clubs, I really hate to start re-inventing a system when others have already sorted out all of the details of good club accounting and invoicing.
I appreciate any input and ideas. As I tell everyone, stating a new club means a long To-Do List - and everything is at the top!
Enough talking...let's fly!
Cheers!
Paul Agnew
VP - Treasure Coast Soaring Club
Vero Beach, FL
Taking a different tack, does anyone co-op with other clubs to share bookkeeping costs and minimize re-invention of the wheel?
We're off and running with a Quickbooks system, but our Treasurer is already running the books for his primary club and is looking to pass the job along to someone else locally. We're exploring the value of hiring a bookkeeping service, automating with a tablet to cloud system, or just finding a club volunteer to take over.
With all of the experience out there among the other clubs, I really hate to start re-inventing a system when others have already sorted out all of the details of good club accounting and invoicing.
I appreciate any input and ideas. As I tell everyone, stating a new club means a long To-Do List - and everything is at the top!
Enough talking...let's fly!
Cheers!
Paul Agnew
VP - Treasure Coast Soaring Club
Vero Beach, FL
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