Glaser-Dirks insolvent?
Andrea Schlapbach
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrea B. Schlapbach
Waserstrasse 83, CH-8053 Zuerich 7, Switzerland
voice: +41 +1 381 28 36
sch...@phys.chem.ethz.ch
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dirk Brokken
: Anybody heared any rumour saying DG is out of money?
:
Yes, I did. But not more than a rumour, though.
--
Dirk.
Andreas Maurer
>I also heard that the (at least German) repair shops for sailplanes got a
>letter from DG that they are going into composition (I found this term for the
>German "Vergleich mit Glaeubigern" in the Langenscheidt dictionary). This does
>not necessarily mean that they immediatly stopped production.
>Though some say it is only the first sailplane manufacturer yet who is in
>trouble.
Fact is that Glaser Dirks is the only glider manufacturer in Germany
who has absolutely no Glider capable of flying tournaments.
DG-303: No match to any other Standard Class Glider
DG-800: No match either to ASH-26 or ASW-27 (depending on the class).
DG-500/505: No match compared to Duo Discus (IMHO the 505 is a
complete disaster - our club has got the first one).
I work at a company repairing gliders. Its boss has good connections
to Glaser Dirks and he told me that Glaser Dirks was not able to sell
any Glider during the last months of the last year. And I do believe
him.
Would you buy a Glaser glider if you could buy ano other, better
glider for the same costs?
BTW: In a last Year's Aerokurier a company announced that they wanted
to sell or fin an investor. That was Glaser Dirks (although they did
not say that in the announcement). Gerhard Glaser is becoming old and
he has lost his interests in Gliding, so he either wants to sell the
company or close it.
Manufactoring gliders is only a small branch of Glaser's company, and
he seems to look at it like that: If it gains him money, okay. If not,
then get it closed.
Greetings
Andreas
David H. Noyes
>Path: magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!sgigate.sgi.com!nntp.coast.net!fu-berlin.de!golden-gate.owl.de!uni-paderborn.de!news.rwth-aachen.de!WZL-MTQ1.WZL.RWTH-AACHEN.DE!SEE
>From: S...@WZL-MTQ1.WZL.RWTH-AACHEN.DE (Guenther Seemann)
>Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
>Subject: Re: Glaser-Dirks insolvent?
>Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 08:10:18
>Organization: WZL der RWTHA
>Lines: 21
>Distribution: world
>Message-ID: <SEE.1422...@WZL-MTQ1.WZL.RWTH-AACHEN.DE>
>References: <4imjvt$1...@elna.ethz.ch> <4ipbvu$h...@tuegate.tue.nl>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 137.226.65.131
>X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]
>In article <4ipbvu$h...@tuegate.tue.nl> di...@wfw.wtb.tue.nl (Dirk Brokken) writes:
>>: Anybody heared any rumour saying DG is out of money?
>I also heard that the (at least German) repair shops for sailplanes got a
>letter from DG that they are going into composition (I found this term for the
>German "Vergleich mit Glaeubigern" in the Langenscheidt dictionary).
"Composition" may be a British term. I think "agreement with creditors"
might be closer.
Guenther Seemann
>: Anybody heared any rumour saying DG is out of money?
I also heard that the (at least German) repair shops for sailplanes got a
letter from DG that they are going into composition (I found this term for the
German "Vergleich mit Glaeubigern" in the Langenscheidt dictionary). This does
not necessarily mean that they immediatly stopped production.
Though some say it is only the first sailplane manufacturer yet who is in
trouble.
- Guenther
-------------------------------------------
Guenther Seemann ---+---
|
-----------(.)-----------
LS6-a, D-0616, HG
e-mail: S...@WZL-MTQ1.WZL.RWTH-AACHEN.DE
Andrea Schlapbach
>From uq...@uni-karlsruhe.de (Andreas Maurer)
>Subject: Re: Glaser-Dirks insolvent?
>Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 22:34:06 GMT
>Fact is that Glaser Dirks is the only glider manufacturer in Germany
>who has absolutely no Glider capable of flying tournaments.
>
>DG-303: No match to any other Standard Class Glider
>DG-800: No match either to ASH-26 or ASW-27 (depending on the class).
>DG-500/505: No match compared to Duo Discus (IMHO the 505 is a
>complete disaster - our club has got the first one).
>
>I work at a company repairing gliders. Its boss has good connections
>to Glaser Dirks and he told me that Glaser Dirks was not able to sell
>any Glider during the last months of the last year. And I do believe
>him.
>Would you buy a Glaser glider if you could buy ano other, better
>glider for the same costs?
Sorry to go below communication politeness but your posting
is neither objective nor honest nor true. Please first
consider removing your prepossessions before arguing like that...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrea B. Schlapbach sch...@phys.chem.ethz.ch
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John D. Newell, Jr.
motorglider championships and the US championships have recently been
won by DG 800A gliders. I have heard no one say bad things about the DG
500 and in this newsgroup recently Pieter van der Meer from The
Netherlands posted his evaluations of several two seat gliders including
the DuoDiscus and the DG 505 20 Meter flapped and winglet version, and
his conclusion was the DG-505 20 Meter flapped and winglet version was
the best ship for him and his club. The DG-303 gives Discus performance
with Full ACRO capability. This is also a fine ship.
I have heard it said recently by a top US pilot that all the FAI class
gliders are within 1% of each other. The pilot accounts for 40% of the
ability to win contests given a modern production FAI class german
glider.
I personally have met with Gerard Glaser and I think he is a very
thoughtful, generous, intelligent, and kind man. He has been very
supportive on getting safety features into modern gliders.
I know that gliders are being sold and repaired at DG USA, and there is
no indication of any problems getting parts or DG gliders accept for the
DG 800B model.
I am not affiliated with Glaser Dirks, but I have flown the DG 300 and
DG 400. I also previously owned a DG 400. I do not own a glider at
this time. I am still active in gliding and a current CFI in gliders
and airplanes. I have flown american jet fighters and jet helicopters
and I prefer gliders.
I think the glider community should unite in support of all German
glider manufacturers at this time, since a lot of their troubles have
been brought on by exchange rates and High German taxes.
John Newell email: new...@njc.org
Hans Trautenberg t2466
that at the present time there is enough money to run the operation until
end of April and that Mr. Dirks trys to continue the operation together
with one of the two persons interested in buying the company after the
add in aerokurier last fall.
--
=============================================================================
Dipl. Phys. Hans L. Trautenberg Universitaet Regensburg
Institut fuer Experimentelle und Angewandte Physik D-93040 Regensburg
phone (49) 941 943 2466 fax (49) 941 943 3196
e-mail hans.tra...@physik.uni-regensburg.de Germany
privat
phone (49) 941 949211 fax (49) 941 930792
10161...@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/HLT
Flurstr. 14 D-92348 Berg Germany
=============================================================================
Lou Haas
Andreas Maurer
>I disagree that the DG sailplanes are not competitive. The German
>motorglider championships and the US championships have recently been
>won by DG 800A gliders.
Yes, the 800 is a fine ship. But take a look at the 26 and the
upcoming LS-9...
>I have heard no one say bad things about the DG
>500 and in this newsgroup recently Pieter van der Meer from The
>Netherlands posted his evaluations of several two seat gliders including
>the DuoDiscus and the DG 505 20 Meter flapped and winglet version, and
>his conclusion was the DG-505 20 Meter flapped and winglet version was
>the best ship for him and his club.
That might be true. But: In the German Index List, the 505 without
flaps got an Index of 106 and the Duo of 112.
During the last year I had the pleasure to compare the 505 (without
flaps) and the Duo to several other gliders, e.g. ASW-20, LS-6, DG-300
and LS-8.
The result was: With an Duo you can easily compare with any FAI-Class
ship. With a DG-505 you do not have the slightest chance against an
ASW-20 or an LS-6. The better the wheather becomes, the worse the 505
competes.
The Problem is, that all 500's have al very slow aerofoil. If you fly
with more than 150 km/h, then you tumble out of the laminar airflow
and the glide ratio tends to stone. The flapped versions can avoid
this problem a bit, but the versions without flaps, well...
A Duo even does well at 200 km/h...
BTW: For the unflapped 18 Meter DG500 "Trainer" Glaser Dirks announced
a glide ratio of 1:40 (and still does). Two 500's were checked out by
the IdaFlieg wich resulted in a true glide ratio of 1:36,2.
Me personally I cannot imagine that the same airplane (any 500/505 has
the same airfoil) with 20 Meters should have the 1:46 of a Duo...
>The DG-303 gives Discus performance
>with Full ACRO capability. This is also a fine ship.
Yes, it is. But the LS-8 is quite a bit better than the Discus (btw:
Regard the year of construction of the Disus!). And then there is the
ASW-24B (liked very much in France)...
>I have heard it said recently by a top US pilot that all the FAI class
>gliders are within 1% of each other. The pilot accounts for 40% of the
>ability to win contests given a modern production FAI class german
>glider.
That is absolutely true. ;-))
But, on the other hand: Modern championchips have so many very good
pilots that the "airplane-factor" gets an influence again.
>I personally have met with Gerard Glaser and I think he is a very
>thoughtful, generous, intelligent, and kind man. He has been very
>supportive on getting safety features into modern gliders.
That is true. I do think that NOAH is a great effort regarding safety.
Also other points of the typical DG-design like the very large canopy
are a great effort.
>I know that gliders are being sold and repaired at DG USA, and there is
>no indication of any problems getting parts or DG gliders accept for the
>DG 800B model.
The have - as any other manufacturer- problems with the engine,
because it is not being built any more...
>I think the glider community should unite in support of all German
>glider manufacturers at this time, since a lot of their troubles have
>been brought on by exchange rates and High German taxes.
This is a true point. On the other hand: Why buy an inferior palne, if
you can get the better plane for the same prize?
And, IMHO, this is the current problem of Glaser Dirks: The other
German glider manufacturers have the better planes at the moment...
;-((
Of course, liking or hating a glider is extremely subjective.
I cannot say that I dislike Glaser Dirks airplanes, but at the moment
others are better (and, to be honest, I like them more).
Especially If I regard the people buying new gliders: They buy LS-8,
ASW-27, ASH-26, Ventus2, Discus and Duo. But no DG's... ;-((
(The only well selling DG is the 800. But since all the other
manufacturers offer their new ships, the advantage Glaser Dirks had on
this sector (How long was the 400 without any concurrence - 5,6
years?) is lost.
>John Newell email: new...@njc.org
Bye
Andreas
Andreas Maurer
>Sorry to go below communication politeness but your posting
>is neither objective nor honest nor true.
Thanks for the flame very much. It is always pleasant to read things
like that without any other statement. :-((
I guess you know the facts better than me.
The question was, if Glaser Dirks has got problems. If you do not
think so, why not. I do think so (and, btw, I guess that I have rather
good sources, outherwise I would not post that in this newsgroup.)
If you do know better, just tell me. I would be happy to hear that I'm
wrong, because our club has got three DG's.
I do not intend to post any rumour around here without any cause.
I know that you have recently visited Glaser Dirks. I do visit him
..hmmm... perhaps once per month, sometimes more often.
And If I see that nearly one half of his staff has been given his
notice (ihnen wurde gekuendigt), then I do not think of a strong
company.
Perhaps you do.
>Please first
>consider removing your prepossessions before arguing like that...
Please let me tell you how I found out these "prepossessions" (I guess
you mean prejudice, Vorurteil?):
- I do fly together with Martin and Schorsch Theisinger you will
probably know (at least Martin - No.5 at the world Gliding
Championchip in Sweden and 8 in New Zealand). They usually get the
latest developments for testing. If they tell me (proved on two
championchips) that a DG-800 is definitely more than just a little bit
worse than an LS-6 (of course, they are subjective!)and that the
ASW-27 and Ventus 2 are better than a LS-6, how would you think a
DG-800 will compare to a ASW-27?
BTW: I usually have also the occasion to fly these gliders, so I think
I can compare them at least by having flown them. If I can compete
with Martin or Schorsch, my plane is better. If I can't, my plane is
not better. ASW-27(me) to DG-800: I can compete. DG-800 to LS-6: I can
not compete...(This are my personal thoughts! Of course, the are
extremely subjective, but the tendency is stunning...).
As we got our new DG-505 last February, I was really looking forward
to it and to compare it to the Duo Discus (I guess I was the first one
to fly a DG-505 vs. a Duo-Discus in competition). What should I say, I
made two compatitions with it: The first one in Landau at special
circumstances: The first half of the competition I had the Duo, Martin
Theisinger had the 505, the second half I had the 505 and Martin the
Duo.- Guess what happened: The Duo always outclassed the 505, no
matter who the pilot was. And Martin is a few classes better than me.
Hmmm...?
The second competition was in Tannheim. The same problem.
BTW: After 500 km's in a Duo, I am still fresh. After 500 km's in a
505, I'm tired.
To conclude this chapter: Perhaps you can see now that I am trying not
to tell fairy tales.
Please regard the latest DAEC Index-List (especially comparing the
DG-505 to the Duo!), look at any DG-300s or DG-303s or DG-800s or
DG-500's winning (not necessarily international) championchips and
then tell me whether DG's do compare successfully today. The only
international successful DG Pilot I know is, if I'm right, Simon
Leuttenegger.
Tell me the name of any well-known pilot thinking of buying a DG. The
ones I know do buy LS8, LS10 (yes! although it does not exist yet),
ASW-27 and ASH-26. And Duo Discus and Ventus 2, of course.
I do know none who wants to buy a DG. I do not even know a club
thinking of buying a DG-303 or a DG-500/505, but a lot of clubs here
around Bruchsal are buying the latest Schleicher, Lembke and Holighaus
planes. Although they usually bought Glaser Dirks planes.
Perhaps on the paper the DG's are as good as any other, but the
reality shows something different. IMHO.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Or, at least, tell me why I'm
>neither objective nor honest nor true.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Andrea B. Schlapbach sch...@phys.chem.ethz.ch
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Andreas
Andreas Maurer
Andreas Maurer
Andreas Maurer
Nick Leaton
> ones I know do buy LS8, LS10 (yes! although it does not exist yet),
> ASW-27 and ASH-26. And Duo Discus and Ventus 2, of course.
What is an LS10?
Nick
Dennis Galotti
uq...@uni-karlsruhe.de writes:
>Subject: Re: Glaser-Dirks insolvent?
Andreas,
You have taken a lot of net space to explain and justify your objectivity
regarding DG and their sailplanes as well as your preference for others.
But let me try to add a slightly different view of objectivity.
Just for credibility, I have been flying and racing gliders for 20 years.
I have also owned new and used gliders from most of the major
manufacturers (LS, SH, DG, AS) including LS-4, Discus, ASW24, DG800 etc.
In addition, I have flown about 40 different models from some pretty old
ones to some of the newest and from some small ones to some of the
largest. I have also been fortunate to have been able to live and fly in
Europe, England and both coasts of the US as well as flying experience
from Scandinavia to Japan.
Now here is my contribution to your objectivity list:
The results of any one or two race days or even full races, regardless of
who is piloting, often provides little useful information.
In any given race, the more pilots flying a specific type, the more
likely that type will win.
Individual glider preparation is extremely important to it's performance.
For example, even today some racing class gliders come out of the
factory without internal rolling seals for the control surfaces which can
be a very important factor in performance in my opinion.
Dick Johnson has spent many years trying to inject real objectivity into
glider performance and his results are still widely questioned as to
their true value.
AND MAYBE MOST IMPORTANT, in the countries and regions in which I have
spent time, the best glider in any class is more likely to be determined
by which glider the most respected pilots choose to fly than almost
anything else. A good example of this is that you could fit all the
LS-7s in the US into the truck of a Ford Fiesta while ASW24s are in
abundance. When I was in the UK during the same period all the ASW24s in
the UK could fit in the boot of a Mini. Personally I preferred the
Discus. By the way, you may want to add to you objectiveity list that it
has not been uncommon to find that some of those most respected pilots
are/were also dealers of those respective "best" gliders and are able to
buy their ships at prices substantially below what you and I would have
to pay.
Keep up your efforts to gain objectivity, its good for the soul.
Dennis Galotti
Eagle Data
difficulties because of high cost of labor due to heavy tax burdens
associated with employees.
The following recent contest finishes have been made by Glaser-Dirks
planes;
DG-800S FAI 15m class
3rd, European Championships '94, Rieti, Ronald Termaat
5th, World Championships '95, NZ, Gerard Lherm
1st, German NE Championships '95, Andreas Kessler
4th, German NE Championships '95, Martin Ryder
2nd, Dutch National Championships '95, Gerrit Kurstjens
2nd, Swiss National Championships '95, Klaus Lemble
1st, Intl Championships '95 Issoudun '95, Ronald Termaat
DG-800B motorglider class
1st, Gerd Stolle Cup '95, Wilhelm Dirks
DG-800A motorglider class
1st, US National Championships '95, David Volkmann
6th, Gerd Stolle Cup '95, W. Schindelmeiser
DG-600
2nd, Gerd Stolle Cup '95, Bernd Dolba (DG-600M)
2nd, German Soaring Championships, Roland Schmidt, 18m class
5th, German Soaring Championships, Heiko Schumann, 18m class
I would think that Andreas would know about these contest results.
JD
Andreas Maurer
>What is an LS10?
The replacement for the LS-6. Currently under development (I don't
know if it already had its first flight).
>Nick
Bye
Andreas
Andreas Maurer
>In addition, I have flown about 40 different models from some pretty old
>ones to some of the newest and from some small ones to some of the
>largest.
That is about the same experience I have, but you probably have a few
more hours due to my younger age...
>The results of any one or two race days or even full races, regardless of
>who is piloting, often provides little useful information.
I do agree. But, on the other hand, if there is always a difference,
no matter of the wheather and the skill of the pilot, it makes me
think.
Usually one day the one aircraft seems to be better, the other day the
other. To get an objective view, it normally takes a lot of time and
more than one race. The more evident it is IMHO when one airplane is
always inferior, don't you think so?
>In any given race, the more pilots flying a specific type, the more
>likely that type will win.
Of course. The snake bites into its tail: The more victories a
specific type gains, the more pilots will buy one, and so on...
But:
If a plane never can be seen in a race, it also makes me think. Why
does no one fly that plane? Is it only its lack of recent victories or
is it something else?
>Individual glider preparation is extremely important to it's performance.
> For example, even today some racing class gliders come out of the
>factory without internal rolling seals for the control surfaces which can
>be a very important factor in performance in my opinion.
Yes. The planes I compared all had excellent finish (What does not
automatically mean that they had the optimum finish).
>A good example of this is that you could fit all the
>LS-7s in the US into the truck of a Ford Fiesta while ASW24s are in
>abundance.
Like in France...
>By the way, you may want to add to you objectiveity list that it
>has not been uncommon to find that some of those most respected pilots
>are/were also dealers of those respective "best" gliders and are able to
>buy their ships at prices substantially below what you and I would have
>to pay.
Of course. But the pilots I know just get their planes a little bit
earlier than the others, not cheaper. I do agree with you that a Klaus
Holighaus would have never done any tournament with an ASW-22...
>Keep up your efforts to gain objectivity, its good for the soul.
I do think so... ;-))
>Dennis Galotti
Andreas
Andreas Maurer
>I understand that all the german glider manufacturers are having financial
>difficulties because of high cost of labor due to heavy tax burdens
>associated with employees.
That is true... :-((((
At least nearly the whole world is dependent on German glider
manufacturers...
>The following recent contest finishes have been made by Glaser-Dirks
>planes;
>DG-800S FAI 15m class
>3rd, European Championships '94, Rieti, Ronald Termaat
>5th, World Championships '95, NZ, Gerard Lherm
>1st, German NE Championships '95, Andreas Kessler
>4th, German NE Championships '95, Martin Ryder
>2nd, Dutch National Championships '95, Gerrit Kurstjens
>2nd, Swiss National Championships '95, Klaus Lemble
>1st, Intl Championships '95 Issoudun '95, Ronald Termaat
...without the concurrence of the latest generation gliders Ventus 2,
ASW-27 and LS-10 (If we ignore the prototypes of the Ventus 2...).
Sure, the 800 can compete with LS-6, Ventus C and others (although it
has never won an international championchip, if I am right - please
correct me), but it seems that the latest FAI-Class gliders are
better.
Wait one more year and any pilot wanting to win a great contest has
got to fly one of the latest constructions (regard the success of the
LS-8 in the Standard Class).
BTW the construction of the current gliders is about ten to fifteen
years old...
>DG-800B motorglider class
>1st, Gerd Stolle Cup '95, Wilhelm Dirks
>DG-800A motorglider class
>1st, US National Championships '95, David Volkmann
>6th, Gerd Stolle Cup '95, W. Schindelmeiser
:-))
>DG-600
>2nd, Gerd Stolle Cup '95, Bernd Dolba (DG-600M)
>2nd, German Soaring Championships, Roland Schmidt, 18m class
>5th, German Soaring Championships, Heiko Schumann, 18m class
>I would think that Andreas would know about these contest results.
Now I know. ;-))
The 800 is not such a bad plane, especially the 800A and B which seem
to be liked very much by former DG-400 owners.
Here it is the same problem: Wait for Ventus 2M and LS-9 and find out
how the 800 will compare...
At the moment it is not sure if the ASH-26 is better than the 800.
But where are the DG-300/303 and the various versions of the
DG-500...?
The point is that all other manufcturers are just about to bring up an
new generation of gliders, but Glaser Dirks does not.
So in my opinion buying a Glaser Dirks Glider is a little bit like
investing into obselete technology.
On the other hand, this discussion has become quite useless now :-((
Let's hope that Glaser Dirks can find an investor to bring the
production up again.
>JD
Andreas
Dennis Galotti
Andreas,
Thanks for taking the time to write your response to my posting. Let me
explain a little why I wrote it.
Your comments regarding DG seems to attack this factory unnecessarily.
And if they are currently suffering hard times, why try to make it worse
for them. It is to the benefit of us all if all the factories can
succeed and give us the widest choice of products in the future.
Everyone who is serious about this sport knows that DG has not been a
driving force in racing class sailplanes (although the DG300 was a
reasonably competitive racer in its time). But their DG400 was very
successful for people who wanted motorgliders in the past and the DG800
is a beautiful and very high quality product. You may also know that a
respected Dutch gliding club did an extensive evaluation of the DG500/505
versus the Duo Discus and others and decided that the 505 was the best
glider FOR THEIR PURPOSES.
Although you may not see reasons to buy DG products yourself, others have
different requirements than you and do buy them. The Manager of
Glaser-Dirks USA recently told me that they imported over 1,000,000 DM
worth of DG products into the US in 1995 and that they are currently
waiting for more than 1,500,000 DM worth of DG sailplanes currently on
order.
Let me also tell you some of the reasons I bought my 800A. For all of us
who do not live near Germany, reliability is a very important factor in
considering a plane like this. The 800A uses the same engine,
installation and electronics of the 400 (which DG has been making and
improving for nearly 15 years). Since the new wings should be as good or
better than the 26, I ultimately felt that I would have much less trouble
with the 800A than with a new design like the DG800B or the 26 which are
likely to have many problems that one expects from any new product of
this complexity. And, in the end, my 800A (now a little more than a year
old) has had no problems of any kind to speak of! It is a beautiful
machine and I like it very much.
But again these facts are not the real issue. The real issue is why try
to hurt them when they are having problems (most of which are related not
to lack of orders, but because they have had many delays in getting and
fitting a new engine which has kept them from shipping the orders they
have). I think you will find in the future that it will reflect better
on you to say something like - isn't it too bad that DG is having this
problem and I wish them well in trying to solve it. In this country,
there is an old saying that mothers teach their children - if you can't
say anything nice, don't say anything at all.
I think you understand my meaning. But as you said, I am probably a
little older than you and I can say that I was also a bit more brash in
my younger days, though some would say the difference is still hard to
see.
Thanks again for your note and I wish you a good soaring season.
Dennis
Andreas Maurer
>Andreas,
>Thanks for taking the time to write your response to my posting. Let me
>explain a little why I wrote it.
>Your comments regarding DG seems to attack this factory unnecessarily.
>And if they are currently suffering hard times, why try to make it worse
>for them.
I see. Perhaps I said my opinion a little bit too clearly. But on the
other hand I do not like telling some "good luck" if there is no cause
to say that.
> It is to the benefit of us all if all the factories can
>succeed and give us the widest choice of products in the future.
My club has got three Glaser Dirks planes: Two 300 and the first 505
prototype. Glaser told us 6 weeks ago that he would do all the
modifications to our first prototype of the 505 that were made to the
later serial planes (and these are great modifications, e.g. water
ballast in the rudder fin). If he does not exist any more, you can
imagine how many modifications we may get.
So I guess that you see that it was not in my mind to make their
situation worse.
>Everyone who is serious about this sport knows that DG has not been a
>driving force in racing class sailplanes (although the DG300 was a
>reasonably competitive racer in its time). But their DG400 was very
>successful for people who wanted motorgliders in the past and the DG800
>is a beautiful and very high quality product. You may also know that a
>respected Dutch gliding club did an extensive evaluation of the DG500/505
>versus the Duo Discus and others and decided that the 505 was the best
>glider FOR THEIR PURPOSES.
I read that. Of course, there may be several circumstances making it
better to buy the plane others would never buy. But if I look around
here in Germany I see clubs buying anything else but 505's...
>Although you may not see reasons to buy DG products yourself, others have
>different requirements than you and do buy them. The Manager of
>Glaser-Dirks USA recently told me that they imported over 1,000,000 DM
>worth of DG products into the US in 1995 and that they are currently
>waiting for more than 1,500,000 DM worth of DG sailplanes currently on
>order.
1.000.000 DM makes...hmmm... 140.000 DM per plane... 7 planes per
year. I know that during the same time Schleicher sold more than 50
ASH-26, although I cannot say how many of them were sold to the US.
>Let me also tell you some of the reasons I bought my 800A. For all of us
>who do not live near Germany, reliability is a very important factor in
>considering a plane like this. The 800A uses the same engine,
>installation and electronics of the 400 (which DG has been making and
>improving for nearly 15 years).
In my opinion the success of motor gliders is based on Glaseer's
DG-400...
>Since the new wings should be as good or
>better than the 26, I ultimately felt that I would have much less trouble
>with the 800A than with a new design like the DG800B or the 26 which are
>likely to have many problems that one expects from any new product of
>this complexity. And, in the end, my 800A (now a little more than a year
>old) has had no problems of any kind to speak of! It is a beautiful
>machine and I like it very much.
:-)))
Of course, me personally I do also like the 800 (but like the ASH-26
more).
>But again these facts are not the real issue. The real issue is why try
>to hurt them when they are having problems (most of which are related not
>to lack of orders, but because they have had many delays in getting and
>fitting a new engine which has kept them from shipping the orders they
>have).
I do not agree in this. In my opinion the crucial problem was the lack
of a good-selling fleet of gliders. Look at the recent developments of
Glaser Dirks:
-500: quite good-selling, but the Duo Discus made it nearly impossible
to sell any others.
-600: quite a flop, like the LS-7. Of course, the 600 sold well in the
beginning, but it soon got a very bad reputation (being difficult to
fly), although it was as good as any other FAI-class glider. But a bad
reputation makes it impossible to sell an aircraft.
-DG-303: Not the progress compared to the 300 which also lacks of a
bad reputation.
It is very difficult to overcome a glider that does not sell very
good, and Glaser had this problem three times now. Schneider only had
these problems with his LS-7 and nearly survived.
> I think you will find in the future that it will reflect better
>on you to say something like - isn't it too bad that DG is having this
>problem and I wish them well in trying to solve it. In this country,
>there is an old saying that mothers teach their children - if you can't
>say anything nice, don't say anything at all.
Hmmm...you may be right.
On the other hand: If it is asked for any news or opinion, why pretend
to be optimistic while there is absolutely no cause for that?
Perhaps you will not believe that, but I really do wish Glaser Dirks
any good for the future, but I am not very optimistic... :-((
Let's see.
>I think you understand my meaning. But as you said, I am probably a
>little older than you and I can say that I was also a bit more brash in
>my younger days, though some would say the difference is still hard to
>see.
;-)
>Thanks again for your note and I wish you a good soaring season.
It has begun quite nicely here in Germany. The first weekend prduced a
450 km triangle...
I also wish you a good soaring season!
>Dennis
Andreas