Some questions about DG600
Sergi
I am considering to sell my PEGASE 101 and to buy the self-launching
sailplane DG600 M of a friend. I think this is a beautiful glider with a
very good performances (with 18m better), but somebody has told me that
DG600 doesn´t have a good stall, it has a difficult stall recovery.
Please help me. Is this true? Is it hard to fly? Is it a glider for advanced
pilots?
Thank you.
Sergi Valls
Remove "w" from my e-mail to answer.
RHWOODY
600 and installed winglets - which reduced
his stall/thermaling speed by 5 knots.
I don't have his address or phone or email
Karl-Friedrich Weber
> I am considering to sell my PEGASE 101 and to buy the self-launching
> sailplane DG600 M of a friend. I think this is a beautiful glider with a
> very good performances (with 18m better), but somebody has told me that
> DG600 doesn´t have a good stall, it has a difficult stall recovery.
> Please help me. Is this true? Is it hard to fly? Is it a glider for advanced
> pilots?
In principle it is right. The stall characteristic of the 600 is not so
good.
But normally you will fly it with 17m wing span.
That is quite another ship without such problems.
If you are not planning to fly in 15 m FAI "class course", you will not
have any problems.
If you extend the wing span to 18 m or if you install winglets - both is
possible -, the flight performance is identical to DG-800!
Good luck!
--
Always happy landings
Karl-Friedrich Weber (Friedel)
--
http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de
Manufacturer of High-Performance Sailplanes
Karl-Friedrich Weber: DG Flugzeugbau GmbH:
k-f-...@t-online.de dg-flug...@t-online.de
Used Glider Market:
http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/Used-Aircraft.html
Martin
Karl-Friedrich Weber wrote:
>
> If you extend the wing span to 18 m or if you install winglets - both is
> possible -, the flight performance is identical to DG-800!
>
So why should one buy a more expensive DG-800?
Martin
Baarle
I had a Pegase, Than went to a DG-600 17m, then to a DG-600m 18m, then to a
DG-800. With my DG-600's I did more than 500 hours in 3 years.
The first DG-600 17m was without winglets. Performance is good. Among many
long flights, I did 1.000K flight with it.
It is a little tricky when you go on lowest speed. Even more on 15 m. Not a
real problem, but you have to fly steadily holding the stick. Its a nice
handling, very fast on the rolling rudders. But you are always steering.
Never let loose the stick. There is the big difference with the 800. This
one you can let loose the stick for minutes to go. One time I have not moved
to my stick more than 20 minutes in a final glide. That is impossible in a
600. You always "have to fly it".
On stall speed it will drop away on 1 wing without telling you. No
vibrations. On the other hand it immeadiatly comes back flying, within a
second when you push the stick forward. I would advise that you have more
than beginners experience.
It is a beautiful glider with a little "know-how" to have. I needed some 100
hours to fly it on its best. Steady climbing performance is when you do not
fly with the weight to much backwards. It should not be flown to slow.
My second DG was 600M 18m without winglets. This was even a lot better than
the 17m. Now I heard from a number of people that the 17m flies nearly as
nice as the 18m when you put Winglets on the 17m. When you don't go to 18m,
than strongly advise to go on to winglets. But also on 18m they have now
good winglets. Alwin Güntert makes them for 18m, and xxxx (forgot the name)
makes them for 17m.
With the 600M 18m I started in Spain on 1.000 meter (30.000ft) altitude.
Motor was OK. In 25-30 Centigrades still enough lift to get away on 1.000m
asphalt with about 40 kgs water. Simple motor, but does the job.
Good choice to take a DG-600M, when you have enough experience and best take
winglets. On 15m it is not the best ship. And, don't fly too slowly. Climbs
better in little higher speed, because of more stable movement.
Lots of luck,
Bert de Wijs
"soaring is high pleasure"
Sergi heeft geschreven in bericht <7m1lp6$o0b$1...@talia.mad.ttd.net>...
>Hi everybody.
>I am considering to sell my PEGASE 101 and to buy the self-launching
>sailplane DG600 M of a friend. I think this is a beautiful glider with a
>very good performances (with 18m better), but somebody has told me that
>DG600 doesn´t have a good stall, it has a difficult stall recovery.
>Please help me. Is this true? Is it hard to fly? Is it a glider for
advanced
>pilots?
>Thank you.
>Sergi Valls
Sergi
Now I know I have to buy this sailplane and fly it in 17m or 18m with or
without winglets or in 15 with winglets.
So once again thank you.
Good luck.
Sergi Valls
ma...@atlas.cz
Other important thing is that I have no experience with the cockpit dimension. Does anybody know if the cockpit has the same shape as the DG 200 one ? I am 191 cm tall and weigh 110 kg.
DG 200 cockpit is big enough for me.
Thank tou for any experience
Dan
Dne neděle 11. července 1999 9:00:00 UTC+2 Sergi napsal(a):
BG
> Hi everybody.
> I am considering to sell my PEGASE 101 and to buy the self-launching
> sailplane DG600 M of a friend. I think this is a beautiful glider with a
> very good performances (with 18m better), but somebody has told me that
> DG600 doesn´t have a good stall, it has a difficult stall recovery.
> Please help me. Is this true? Is it hard to fly? Is it a glider for advanced
> pilots?
>
> The DG 600 is known for having bad stall characteristics and will break into a spin very easily. Also it is known its performance degrades significantly in rain with a higher stall speed. Definitely not a glider for a pilot with minimal experience. Its vintage will also require an annual payment to DG for technical support including buying parts. There is a reason it was built in such limited numbers.
As said the DG 800 is a completely different experience, very forgiving and handles rain very well. I have been flying the 800 now for over 7 years and trust its great design in the most challenging conditions.
Buzz Graves
Glidergeek
Glidergeek
http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/dg-25-jahre-e.html
"Due to a fire in the wing production room in the year 1992 the DG-600 production had to be shut down with 112 units produced, as the wing moulds had been severely damaged"
Steve Hill
> Hi everybody.
>
> I am considering to sell my PEGASE 101 and to buy the self-launching
> sailplane DG600 M of a friend. I think this is a beautiful glider with a
> very good performances (with 18m better), but somebody has told me that
> DG600 doesn´t have a good stall, it has a difficult stall recovery.
> Please help me. Is this true? Is it hard to fly? Is it a glider for advanced
> pilots?
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> Remove "w" from my e-mail to answer.
Eric Munk
and in 15, 17 or 18 metre version (pure glider, don;t know about the M).
scoring...@gmail.com
I love the 600 for its very fast roll rate, the ease of building up speed, the excellent glide even at high speeds, especially when compared with the market value. I never flew the 18M variant (most popular and desirable variant), mine came with 17m fixed winglet extensions, and the original flat 15M tip. I later found 15m fixed winglets, which I was very happy to add to the ship's set.
The only configuration I really don't like is the flat 15M tip. It goes like hell in a straight glide (probably best config for wave flying), but any pull-up from speed must be very smooth or the drag losses are high.
In 17M WL, it used to have a slightly too high European handicap, so not very good in competition. Now reduced to a very reasonable 113 in 17m, one point lower perfo than V2/15m and ASW27. Also, as a self-launcher, the MTOW is too limited ending up with a non-competitive wing loading in the 18m class. Not very easy to maintain good thermalling coordination.
In 15m WL, I like it very much. Forget about self-launching, put some ballast and it will thermal more easily.
Nvertheless, just a bit too much ballast and it just won't seem to climb in average thermals. Please note that I'm 100kg myself, and I used to add no more than 50L for a TOW of about 480kg. Anything more would kill the climb.
At 42 kg/sq.m. I could fly long tasks along with ballasted LS-8 and Discus 2.
Nevertheless, my CG is not optimized. I installed a heavier tailwheel, but that doesn't seem to be enough. When I gave the glider to a friend weighing just 70 kg, and with the standard tailwheel, he was very very happy with the handling and climb performance, among other hotter 15M ships.
The stall-spin behaviour is in my opinion, and here's where opinions differ greatly, quite unusual. It can drop a wing very very quickly even during a stabilized thermalling spiral, with practically no pre-stall warning. That can happen when a stronger lift bubble hits the wing: you see the vario going up, and a wing falls. That's at 90 km/h and no ballast. The glider responds very quickly to a standard recovery (a little forward stick and external rudder). So quickly, that you may actually remain reasonably centered in the thermal.
When trying to describe this, I usually make the Porsche-over-wet-slippery-tarmac analogy. I like this behaviour but it's something to be aware about.
Other pilots say they never had any wingdrop during thermalling. Maybe I'm flying a little too slow. +5 km/h make a lot of difference.
On the other hand, it is very easy to land correctly. If you like the reclined position, it's very comfortable for pilots up to 190cm. Taller is possible but may be less comfy.
Can be flown safely by anyone, provided they are current and get some advice. Lots of perfo for the money, probably a bit more difficult to sell than other types.
I still own it, and plan to take it back to the air next season.
cheers,
aldo cernezzi
www.voloavela.it