New Pulse Demand Oxygen Systems?

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

I am giving a presentation at the 2023 Reno SSA Convention on oxygen systems with my partner Dr Dan Johnson. My portion will be the how-to practical side while Dr Dan will cover the medical side.

The current version of my presentation can be found at;
http://aviation.derosaweb.net/presentations/#oxygen. 

My questions are;

- Who else but Mountain High sells a pulse-demand system? I have done some searching and have not found any other manufacturer.
- A friend has a 100% mechanical pulse-demand system (Aerox) which seems no longer to be made. Any others on the market?

Thanks for any information. 

- John (OHM)

[2G]

I did find this pulse demand regulator, but it is for CGA-870 fittings and does not do altitude compensation:
https://www.oxygenconcentratorsupplies.com/precision-easypulse-5-6-oxygen-conserving-regulator?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=&scid=scplp198712&sc_intid=198712&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-JacBhC0ARIsAIxybyN0bKpGQQ39zDMvBT3pYE3ht2r8YGCZ_SJm6_DLQyM9iEH4p9V3jk4aAuQpEALw_wcB

Tom

[Mark Mocho]

I've been a dealer for Mountain High since the early 90s, and to my knowledge, Patrick McLaughlin took a pulse demand system and added the altitude compensation feature, for which he received a patent. This is the primary reason that there is no other altitude compensated pulse demand system. This information may be out of date, but it is the only explanation I have at this time.

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

I have been informed that there is another pulse oxygen system that does automatic altitude control of the pulse volume.

However, the Aithre system appears to require the cell phone application (IOS only) to do two important things;

- Automatic altitude control of the pulse volume
- Audio alerts for error conditions (no O2 or no breathing)

- John (OHM)

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

I did some research on the Aithre system. I added information on this system in the latest version of my Oxygen Systems presentation.

I also did a pro/con analysis between the Mountain High system and the Aithre system (as well on the pages for non-pulse systems).

Take a look and let me know your comments or suggestions.

http://aviation.derosaweb.net/presentations/#oxygen

Thanks John (OHM)

[John Johnson]

John - the material is great and the pulse systems comparison looks valid to me.
Looks like the material is staying away from a deep dive into high altitude O2 solutions and risks. That's probably a good idea but some references to other sources would be nice (and a very stern caution that a simple O2 problem at high altitudes can kill you fast and find experts to consult with)
On the refill section : The 3 formal fill stations I've seen all have the fill tanks interconnected. That allows a 'close then open' valve sequence after filling to recapture some of the higher pressure air in the lines back into the lower pressure fill cylinder(s).

Nice work and I really like how your info page continues to grow.

JJ

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

JJ,

My online presentation does stay away from the heavy-duty medical side. I only put some in there to get people's attention. I don't have the expertise to delve deeper.

This medical portion will be pulled for my convention presentation and Dr Dan will take over as a tag-team. He has spoken/written on this topic several times. He does have the expertise that I lack and I am very happy he has stepped up to help.

- John (OHM)

[jean-mari...@gadz.org]

Hi John,
I have read and appreciated your presentation about oxygen. In the list of resources, I regret that you do not mention my book “Dancing with the Wind”, chapter 12, which goes much further in-depth about O2 issues. In particular, Dr Schaffner and myself discovered some hidden issues in the MH pressure regulator, we also explain why it is not possible to increase the flow of O2 above 20,000 ft (with all associated dangers), why the face mask is dangerous and cannulas should always be used. We also give indication on how to set you EDS according to your age, pathologies, smoker or not, a.s.o. All based upon facts, laboratory and in-flight measurements. The book is available at the major resellers in US and Europe, or my website www.topfly.aero.
I can give you the right to use some pictures, providing you quote the source with a link to the website.
Congratulations again, season greetings,

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

Jean-Marie,

Thank you for your information. I will add a reference to your book (and others).

This presentation started out as simply a how-to create an oxygen system for novice sailplane pilots as they begin to fly at altitudes where oxygen is needed. I was at this point myself when I first began traveling to the western United States and flying along the Rocky Mountains.

On the medical side of my presentation I only touch on a few medical details before launching into the primary details of explaining oxygen systems.

Thanks again, John (OHM)

[Herbert Kilian]

On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 2:38:34 AM UTC-6, jean-mari...@gadz.org wrote:

Jean-Marie did an excellent presentation on O2 at the last Reno Conference. He saved my bacon when I experienced symptoms he had described when flying out of Parowan at 17,000 ft. I went down to 13,000 and headed toward home. I then increased the flow rate on MH system and recovered, being able to continue the flight. MH later got my system for a check and found a fault that was repaired. Send your box to them every 2 years as has been already recommended in this space.
Jean-Marie, thanks for your lecture!

Herb, J7

[Eric Greenwell]

On 12/2/2022 6:56 PM, Herbert Kilian wrote:
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 2:38:34 AM UTC-6, jean-mari...@gadz.org wrote:

...

>> Hi John,
>> I have read and appreciated your presentation about oxygen. In the list of resources, I regret that you do not mention my book “Dancing with the Wind”, chapter 12, which goes much further in-depth about O2 issues. In particular, Dr Schaffner and myself discovered some hidden issues in the MH pressure regulator, we also explain why it is not possible to increase the flow of O2 above 20,000 ft (with all associated dangers), why the face mask is dangerous and cannulas should always be used. We also give indication on how to set you EDS according to your age, pathologies, smoker or not, a.s.o. All based upon facts, laboratory and in-flight measurements. The book is available at the major resellers in US and Europe, or my website www.topfly.aero.
>> I can give you the right to use some pictures, providing you quote the source with a link to the website.
>> Congratulations again, season greetings,
> Jean-Marie did an excellent presentation on O2 at the last Reno Conference. He saved my bacon when I experienced symptoms he had described when flying out of Parowan at 17,000 ft. I went down to 13,000 and headed toward home. I then increased the flow rate on MH system and recovered, being able to continue the flight. MH later got my system for a check and found a fault that was repaired. Send your box to them every 2 years as has been already recommended in this space.
> Jean-Marie, thanks for your lecture!
>
> Herb, J7

Were you checking your SPO2% periodically? I check at least every half hour, and have
discovered over the years that I need to turn the oxygen on at lower and lower altitudes,
and sometimes use a higher flow setting on my O2D1 EDS.

I recently purchased a "O2Ring" by Wellue that is, well, a ring shaped oximeter with
adjustable vibration alerts. It' comfortable enough to wear for the whole flight, and
small enough it doesn't interfere with operating the controls.
--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

[dys...@gmail.com]

Here is an open source pulse demand system built by a glider pilot. If you can source the parts in the US it could be great. http://nortd.github.io/WaveGlide/

[dys...@gmail.com]

Also quick plug for Garmin watches that have sp02 monitoring built in. I have the Fenix 6x pro, it constantly monitors my 02 and heart rate. Great addition to any cockpit imho.

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 8:51:51 AM UTC-6, dys...@gmail.com wrote:

> Also quick plug for Garmin watches that have sp02 monitoring built in. I have the Fenix 6x pro, it constantly monitors my 02 and heart rate. Great addition to any cockpit imho.

Sorry but I have to disagree with the Garmin watches being a good spO2 monitor.

Before the 2022 season I purchased a Garmin D2 aviation watch. Very nice with lots of aviation centric functions - except for the primary reason I purchased it. Which is during flight I could just glace at my watch and get a quick O2 reading - or even needing a button push, then wait a bit, and get a reading.

Maybe it was just my person physiology, or a D2 issue, but 90%+ of the time I was told to "hold still". Hold still while flying a glider? Even in still air between thermals it was a challenge. Even then I had to wait up to 60 seconds to get a reading.

I reverted to a (LCD sunlight readable) finger tip spO2 unit. Never failed giving a reading in 10-15 seconds.

My $0.02.

John (OHM)

[Eric Greenwell]

I recently began using an oximeter that is comfortable to wear for an entire flight, does
not interfere with control operation, tolerates motion very well, updates the % and heart
rate reading every 5 seconds, logs all the readings, and has adjustable vibration alerts
for O2% and heart beat. Search for "Wellue O2Ring Oxygen Monitor with Vibration Alarm" on
Amazon, Walmart, etc, for prices that vary from $180 and down (I paid $150 from their
website).

My only complaint is the ring display is hard to read in full sunlight while flying, but
the vibration alarm is what I'd rely on, anyway. The phone app shows the readings, so
that's a way to see them if you need a better display inflight. It also has a good
graphing function for after flight review of readings.

[Dan Marotta]

I've been flying for 50 years without anything like that. I learned my
hypoxia symptoms in the altitude chamber back in 73 and 75. I do have
am electronic CO meter in my Cessna, however.

Dan
5J

[Eric Greenwell]

How do you know your symptoms are the same, 47 years later? Putting it another way: How do
you know your are functioning adequately as long you don't have those symptoms?

The advantage of using an oximeter is it can warn you before your O2% has decreased too
far, and maybe before you have symptoms.

Eric

On 12/6/2022 3:44 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I've been flying for 50 years without anything like that.  I learned my hypoxia symptoms
> in the altitude chamber back in 73 and 75.  I do have am electronic CO meter in my Cessna,
> however.
>
> Dan
> 5J
>
> On 12/6/22 09:08, Eric Greenwell wrote:

...

[Dan Marotta]

I use an O2D2, change the batteries annually, have the system to deliver
oxygen at the surface, and I keep tabs on system pressure. I'm happy
with those.


Dan
5J

[Eric Greenwell]

All good things to do, and I also do them however, the last few years my oximeter showed
me I was exhibiting Cheyne-Stokes breathing above 7000', dipping into the high 80s with no
symptoms. I don't know if that's a potential problem, but I don't think spending minutes
between 85 and 90 is a good for me, so I go to F5 on the O2D1 to increase O2 delivery.

Eric

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 5:58:23 PM UTC-6, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> All good things to do, and I also do them however, the last few years my oximeter showed
> me I was exhibiting Cheyne-Stokes breathing above 7000', dipping into the high 80s with no
> symptoms. I don't know if that's a potential problem, but I don't think spending minutes
> between 85 and 90 is a good for me, so I go to F5 on the O2D1 to increase O2 delivery.
>
> Eric

Eric,

Interesting comment about "I go to F5 on the O2D1 to increase O2 delivery". As a Chicago based "flat lander" I was using D5 out West but moved to F5 as I aged.

If everyone didn't know F5 is different than D5 on Mountain High 1st generation systems by increased oxygen flow. Per the 1st generation manual;

"The F mode settings (F5, F10, F15, and F20) are called the “Floor” or “Face mask” settings. They supplement the standard oxygen flow by adding approximately the selected number of feet (in thousands) to the MH EDS-O2D2’s perceived altitude. Example: If you are at a pressure altitude of 5,000 ft. and select the F10 setting you will receive the effective flow rate of 5,000 + 10,000 = 15,000 ft. The “F” modes are useful for people for whom the standard oxygen supply does not achieve the desired blood oxygen saturation or for those who prefer to use a face mask rather than a cannula."

On the 2nd generation Mountain High systems F5, F10, F15, and F20 settings are replaced with F1, F2, F3 and F4 settings which have a different description. Per the 2nd generation manual;

"The F settings are for use with a Facemask or when more oxygen is required with a cannula. F settings augment the amount of oxygen otherwise provided at a given pressure altitude
in order to compensate for the additional plenum volume associated a facemask. Each successive F-setting provides a progressively larger dose of oxygen. F-Mode settings are calibrated for use with the various sizes of the MH EDS or ALPS facemasks ..."

https://www.mhoxygen.com/docs/

[jean-mari...@gadz.org]

Hi,
At page 275 and followings of my book “Dancing with the Wind” you can see the curve of O2 flow vs. positions F of the EDS from ground to FL200.
In few words, the conclusions are:
• If you are not any more young or a smoker or if taking some tablets against hypertension or heart light disease, you MUST go to F5 or F10 starting from the ground in order to maintain the correct O2 saturation. I personally use F10 all the time (I am 78, not smoker, HT treated). The flow is almost the double of the N position, but this is my “life insurance”, at the extra cost of 5$ per day of O2 in wave.
• There is NO WAY to maintain your nominal SpO2 above FL200 with an EDS or any other atmospheric O2 distribution system, regardless of the model. You then need a pressurized system, which is not for us (except Perlan).
• The D positions should be totally banned. We believe delaying delivery is an error.
Happy landings to all!