Status and future of glideport.aero?

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J6 aka Airport Bum

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May 2, 2022, 10:39:31 AMMay 2
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Just inquiring, since the XC season is now getting underway in earnest here in the USA. In particular, some of us who fly small camps/expeditions in remote sites really like having this tracking resource. Much more convenient than exchanging/keeping track of individual satellite tracker "share pages" (this will be our fallback....). glideport.aero has great site-focused and both real-time and persistent (permanent record) tracking display that in my opinion make it the most useful track display tool at this time. OGN can provide some similar tracking functions (even in areas without OGN ground stations, if folk register their satellite trackers via Niv's system) but it doesn't provide the persistent track access that could be critical in a retrieve or rescue situation.

glideport.aero has worked occasionally over the past month or two, but not really enough of the time for sure. Hopefully something is going on to achieve full time functionality for the season.

I recognize and commend the efforts attempting to restore this valuable service, and respect that it will take some (volunteer plus probably some paid professional) time and effort to get it back fully operational. Respect for those working on it.....

Cheers,
Jim J6

Davis Chappins

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May 2, 2022, 11:04:13 AMMay 2
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To clarify:

> OGN can provide some similar tracking functions (even in areas without OGN ground stations, if folk register their satellite trackers via Niv's system)

You are referring to https://groups.google.com/g/rec.aviation.soaring/c/1zYbIJe7AkY/m/b9V3v4MFAQAJ created and hosted by me. This forwards spot and inreach locations to the OGN viewable by any OGN website.

To further clarify, this was meant as a fun project to see if I could do it. Looking towards the future this functionality should be hosted on glideport, so as to not have two places to signup with the same information. However the site has no ownership for now so that will have to wait.

J6 aka Airport Bum

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May 2, 2022, 11:08:14 AMMay 2
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Thanks, Davis, I got mixed up here, apologies.... You have and are doing great work here, much appreciated.

Cheers,
Jim J6

kinsell

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May 2, 2022, 11:16:43 AMMay 2
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On 5/2/22 08:39, J6 aka Airport Bum wrote:

> OGN can provide some similar tracking functions (even in areas without OGN ground stations, if folk register their satellite trackers via Niv's system) but it doesn't provide the persistent track access that could be critical in a retrieve or rescue situation.
>

Look at the SAR section of wiki.glidernet.org
There is some capability of looking at old data, but it would be nice if
the commonly used viewers had a 24 hr persistence option on the track
length.

Dave

Ramy

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May 3, 2022, 1:35:14 PMMay 3
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I also recommend signing up with Niv’s server as described here https://www.pacificsoaring.org/articles/2020/using-ogn/using-ogn.html
Which will display your flarm trace (if within OGN station range) AND your ADS-B on glideport.

Ramy

kinsell

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May 6, 2022, 3:20:36 PMMay 6
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For more discussion, see "SSA - Glider Tracking" thread from last year,
starting July 4. Slightly dated info, but a lot of details.

I just tried to log into glideport.aero, said invalid password. Had to
OK the security exemption due to the invalid certificate. But my Garmin
tracker still shows up on that map.

At the present time, the OGN viewers show Flarm signals from the OGN
receivers, Naviter and IGCDroid traffic through the cell phone network,
and ADS-B signals from ADS-B Exchange. They can also show signals from
low-cost OGN beacons, and SoftRF devices.

Although Glideport was great in its day, people gravitate towards things
that work reliably, and also things that are cost-effective. I just
don't see Glideport catching up to what's already available today from OGN.

-Dave

Ramy

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May 6, 2022, 5:14:34 PMMay 6
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Glideport is capable of showing everything that is on the OGN trackers, if everyone signs up to Niv’s server, and everything works.
I talked to Frank and they are working on resolving the glideport issues.
Meanwhile, I would have hoped that at least one of the developers of the popular OGN trackers would pay attention to the shortfalls described in the reference threads, take a good look at glideport UI, and give the OGN trackers much needed facelift and functionality to make them usable.
I tried multiple OGN trackers and none of them are capable of providing a sorted list of all flights in a certain area and show the full traces of all flights with a single click. It is either impossible or difficult to do with any tracker I tried. If I was the developer of one of those trackers, I wouldn’t sleep until I could provide this very basic functionality. I would expect that at least WeGlide will make an effort to provide such capability in its live tracking feature. Even if the history must be limited to 24 hours due to silly privacy concerns. Is anyone from Weglide listening?

Ramy

kinsell

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May 6, 2022, 10:36:52 PMMay 6
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On 5/6/22 15:14, Ramy wrote:
> Glideport is capable of showing everything that is on the OGN trackers, if everyone signs up to Niv’s server, and everything works.

Those are two mighty big IF's.

> I talked to Frank and they are working on resolving the glideport issues.

Uh huh. And how many years have they been working on this?

> Meanwhile, I would have hoped that at least one of the developers of the popular OGN trackers would pay attention to the shortfalls described in the reference threads, take a good look at glideport UI, and give the OGN trackers much needed facelift and functionality to make them usable.

Many people think they are already usable. At least they work reliably,
which puts them far ahead of glideport.

> I tried multiple OGN trackers and none of them are capable of providing a sorted list of all flights in a certain area and show the full traces of all flights with a single click. It is either impossible or difficult to do with any tracker I tried. If I was the developer of one of those trackers, I wouldn’t sleep until I could provide this very basic functionality.

If it's so easy, why don't you just do it yourself?


> I would expect that at least WeGlide will make an effort to provide such capability in its live tracking feature. Even if the history must be limited to 24 hours due to silly privacy concerns.

That limit is not from silly privacy concerns, it's EU law. 24 hrs
should be enough for SAR work. As I previously stated, 24 hrs on all
viewers would be nice, but there already is one that provides that.

Dave

Andy Blackburn

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May 7, 2022, 6:29:35 PMMay 7
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On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 2:14:34 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
> I tried multiple OGN trackers and none of them are capable of providing a sorted list of all flights in a certain area and show the full traces of all flights with a single click. It is either impossible or difficult to do with any tracker I tried. If I was the developer of one of those trackers, I wouldn’t sleep until I could provide this very basic functionality. I would expect that at least WeGlide will make an effort to provide such capability in its live tracking feature. Even if the history must be limited to 24 hours due to silly privacy concerns. Is anyone from Weglide listening?

I'm pretty sure they are listening.

What I think would make sense is a list of all flights contained within the current defined window over the past 24 hours (maybe prior 24-hour periods as well for US where we don't have the EU restrictions - if that's possible) , select/deselect gliders on the list to show their tracks (ideally for an X-minute time window that the user can specify) and the ability to play/pause at different multiples of real time as well as scrub through the time strip/barogram.

Anything else? I'm making a feature request.

I'm skeptical that glidepwort.aero will ever get the development support it would need to do anything but limp along held together with duct tape.

Andy Blackburn
9B

Davis Chappins

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May 7, 2022, 8:52:02 PMMay 7
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The answer to all of the questions asked in this thread is the same: money.

There is no money in developing trackers for gliders and no money paid to site owners to make existing ones better. Worse yet, the only revenue stream available for any tracking website comes from glider pilots themselves (or sponsors who advertise to glider pilots so indirectly still the pilots).

To my knowledge the only tracker under active development is weglide. They offer a few paid plans but in reality it probably barely covers their server costs + developer costs https://www.weglide.org/plans
So if you are a glider pilot and want to see something different/better/new and not contributing then you are part of the problem. It's simple. (this is not directed at anyone in particular, but rather glider pilots as a whole)

Otherwise, there are existing options that are listed above and elsewhere.

Ramy

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May 8, 2022, 8:47:12 PMMay 8
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I believe many would be happy to donate few bucks or pay subscription for a good reliable solution. I would.
Quiet a few services are able to cover their costs with donations, subscriptions and advertisements (skysight, OLC etc).
Weglide is definitely at the phase of trying to improve functionality and attract more users so I hope they will invest more in live tracking.

Ramy

kinsell

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May 10, 2022, 1:02:30 AMMay 10
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Where is the registration for enabling the ADS-B to OGN relay?

Ramy

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May 15, 2022, 1:09:10 PMMay 15
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I believe this is done automatically by Davis integration. If you registered your flarm on OGN, OGN already has your Mode S code which is used to sync up with ADS-B targets.

Ramy

kinsell

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May 15, 2022, 7:08:09 PMMay 15
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Davis told me that he relays any ADS-B signal squawking 1202. Also Mode
S transponders that can be located with MLAT (on the ADS-B Exchange).
Obviously a U.S. specific solution.

Many PF's are set up to use the flarm serial number instead of ICAO
code, so you can't just use a flarm registration.

Ramy

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May 16, 2022, 12:42:03 AMMay 16
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I forgot about the option to use flarm serial number instead of Mode S code. I didn’t think anyone doing so. Only make sense when a portable is used in multiple gliders. Also I think this only works with Mode C transponders. I am pretty sure with Mode S and ADS-B you need to use the mode S code for proper functionality.

Ramy

kinsell

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May 16, 2022, 10:39:31 AMMay 16
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Oh contraire. When I installed my Core 5-6 years ago, the instructions
said to use the serial number, but the ICAO code was another option.
You can even make up your own random number if you want. Not a great
idea, but it works.

If you have Mode S or ADS-B, there's another section in the config file
for putting in your ICAO code, to help in rejecting your own xponder
signal. It's not really linked to what your Flarm is sending out.
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