Binder EB29R

[krasw]

Binder's latest open class toy:

http://www.aerokurier.de/luftsport/segelflug/erlkoenig-gesichtet-binder-eb29-mit-neuem-superschlankem-fluegel/673720?special_id=673028

Quite respectable wing loading for such span.

[krasw]

Out of curiosity, I watched some competition flights of EB 29 and EB 29R pair flying with SeeYou (http://www.soaringspot.com/en_gb/coppa-internazionale-del-mediterraneo-rieti-2016/results). The R-model systematically glided either faster with same glide ratio or with same speed and better glider ratio. Much better. Interesting to see what happens in Australia.

[Tango Whisky]

Well, the R model has a completely different wing.

[ND]

yeah i mean it's cool, but let's see if it can hang with concordia.

[Tom Kelley #711]

On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 6:32:52 AM UTC-7, ND wrote:
> yeah i mean it's cool, but let's see if it can hang with concordia.

My information says this might need to wait as DB and the Concordia will not be at the WGC in Benalla.

Best. #711.

[JS]

Does the EB29R have modern features like automatic control hookups?
The EB29 does not. Seems pretty poor for a $400,000 single seat glider.
Jim

[dar...@pepperdata.com]

It should come with a German factory technician who rigs it for you...

[rhw...@earthlink.net]

I owned an EB28 Edition for 5 years and 40% of a second EB28 Edition together
with a German pilot and a Slovenian pilot - that 40% I owned for 3.5 years -
the new "R" wing has a reduced chord which lowers the wing area and raises
the wing loading - I provided my EB28 for my Slovenian friend to fly at the
2012 WGC at Uvalde - he flew all the time in the 25.3 m wing span at Uvalde -
at Uvalde during the WGC my Slovenian friend told me he had no problem
to fly with and stay with DB in his Concordia and Tabery in his ASW22 with
28 m wing span - the Concordia was also with 28 m wing span - the "R" wing is not available for the EB28 at this time - but is available for the EB29 - the EB29 has better performance than the EB28 - you can draw your own
conclusions about the Concordia vs the EB29 with the "R" wing - my opinion is
that the EB29 with the "R" wing or with the normal non-R wing is better than
the Concordia - I am reasonably experienced with the EB28 Edition and have flown
60 flights over 1000 km at Bitterwasser in the African country of Namibia - the
EB28 Edition is a 2-seater and the EB29 is a single seater - and the EB29D is
a 2-seater - Walter Binder is presently flying his EB29D at Pokweni in Namibia -

[rhw...@earthlink.net]

On Monday, April 4, 2016 at 9:23:07 AM UTC-6, krasw wrote:

PS the EB28 Edition and the EB29 are about $300,000 with trailer and
the usual equipment - neither have automatic control hookups - both gliders
are incredibly good climbers even when very heavy - the handling is superb
and they are a pleasure to fly -

[rhw...@earthlink.net]

On Monday, April 4, 2016 at 9:23:07 AM UTC-6, krasw wrote:

Binder web site - http://www.binder-flugmotorenbau.de/
Bitterwasser web site - http://www.bitterwasser.com/index.php

[krasw]

You would probably rig and de-rig only couple of times in flying season. It is not a glider you take out of trailer every morning.

[ND]

yeah that's a shame. more of a hypothetical "let's see". hopefully there's a chance to directly compare them in the future.

[Paul T]

Be interesting to see how the much cheaper and smaller JS1C will
stack up against the EB29R.

[rhw...@earthlink.net]

On Monday, April 4, 2016 at 9:23:07 AM UTC-6, krasw wrote:

The "R" wing was a direct response to the JS1's high wing loading -
and the 25.3m wing span was a direct response to the Quintus high wing loading -
the EB gliders are not the kind you assemble frequently - but with the very
good covers by Jaxida and Cloudancer they can be tied down outside - assembly
and disassembly can be done with 2 knowledgeable people using a wing rigger
device - all EB gliders are self-launchers - during 16 consecutive seasons
of flying at Bitterwasser I never landed out but did use the motor to get home
5 times - 3 years ago I sold everything and retired from glider flying

[krasw]

Binder and Sommer on EBs, very interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiI--frRIg4

And not surprisingly, but 29Rs dominated first weak (?) flying day of WGC.

[Pete Smith]

32 points ahead of Andy in the JS1, one heck of a spanking

[uncl...@ix.netcom.com]

Day one was about not doing anything stupid. Scores are essentially a wash for the top few.
Not surprising that 29R with many time world champion is at or near the top, given the conditions.

[krasw]

On Tuesday, 10 January 2017 17:03:57 UTC+2, uncl...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> Day one was about not doing anything stupid. Scores are essentially a wash for the top few.
> Not surprising that 29R with many time world champion is at or near the top, given the conditions.

Watching todays competition flights with seeyou shows that 29R's advantage is absolutely brutal in low speed range. We are talking systematical 10-20% better glide ratio and 0,1-0,2 m/s better climb rate in almost every glide and thermal where other gliders (well, JS1c) are available for comparison.

[Tony]

Strange then that so many JS-1s are so close to the EB's speed then on Day 2, with one faster.

[Steve Leonard]

On Wednesday, January 11, 2017 at 9:55:19 AM UTC-6, Tony wrote:
> Strange then that so many JS-1s are so close to the EB's speed then on Day 2, with one faster.

Or maybe not so strange. Blue day, I hear. Most impressed by the 15 meter crowd. All but three started in a 4 minute window! 18 meter was almost as good. Open looks to have been two packs.

As Hank said about Day One, "Day Two was about not doing anything stupid." Why lead out and not have markers? From the data on the scoresheet, Riccardo did it right. Started just far enough behind the first group that he was able to catch them. Micheal and Tassilo were first out in the second pack and stayed there. Caught some of the first pack.

Just my observation.

Steve Leonard

[lehn...@gmail.com]

It might not be that much of a contradiction - especially if we interpret a gliding competition in essence as an opportunity-risk balancing game. If we assume for a moment that krsaw's observation regarding an advantage of the EB29R is directionally correct, it could well be that comrades Sommer & Bode are using a potential performace edge in their gliders to achieve consistent good scoring results while keeping their risk limited (that is also the implication of the most recent youtube interview with Michael Sommer where he argues that a key benefit of team flying for him is to avoid mistakes), instead of trying to use a potential glider performace advantage to always outpace anybody else. If one follows that perspective, it should be no surprise that other top pilots in the numerous and still excellent JS1cs on any given day are achieving similiar or even better speeds than the two EB29R - but potentially at a slightly higher individual risk and a higher volatility in individual results.

Just a hypothesis and maybe not worth the used bits/bytes

Marc, S2