Barographs?
Tony
would like to put one or two of these relics back into service
generating FAI Badges. Replogle preferred as that is what I have
experience with, however I'll consider any other model. Thanks!
Tony
jcarlyle
at interserv dot com.
-John
Andy
> I've got an old Replogle you can have. Contact me off line at jcarlyle
> at interserv dot com.
Now you're spoiling the whole "retro" experience with modern
technology! He should be made to smoke foils and learn how to seal
them without blowing the trace away.
Andy
Tim Taylor
I have an OK brand on the shelf that uses smoked foil. And yes my
first 500K was blown away when the official observer hit it too hard
with the hairspray. Had to go back and fly it again.
Tony
i actually would really love to use a smoke barograph, i just don't
have one.
Maybe I should try to find one for use in my upcoming gold and diamond
attempts.
Club lore here is of one fellow who rummaged around in the trunk of
his car for the spray can of stuff to seal the barograph. turns out
he grabbed a can of carb cleaner in the dark. bye bye trace.
Tony
ok maybe ill take the cambridge AND the barograph :)
kirk.stant
glider attached to your barograph...with a Model T as a retrieve
vehicle.
In otherwords, why bother? We pay a lot of tax money to support the
GPS system, get some use out of it!
And be sure to check the SSA site for the recording requirements for
badge flights - barographs are only valid for badge altitude or time
claims, or badge distance without turnpoints.
Probably a lot easier to ask around and borrow a proper GPS logger -
you will definitely make the badge lady happier, and get to relive the
flight via SeeYou afterwards - and let us enjoy it on OLC!
Cheers,
Kirk (Save a tree, fly a plastic glider)
66
Tony
Kirk,
I've got a loaner Cambridge 25 in the Cherokee which I really love.
But Leah's cherokee has no such device and there are a few guys in the
club who are barograph free not to mention the club itself only has 1
barograph but 3 gliders. I just like the idea of having a few
barographs around in case one of my students or friends are going
flying on a day where a badge leg or state record could be claimed.
noel.wade
> club who are barograph free not to mention the club itself only has 1
> barograph but 3 gliders. I just like the idea of having a few
> barographs around in case one of my students or friends are going
> flying on a day where a badge leg or state record could be claimed.
Bah, save yourself a ton of trouble. Buy a self-contained unit like
the ewMicroRecorder. Its perfect for a club setting, has an internal
battery, a simple on-off switch (and no other complications), and
requires just a standard USB cable (or SD card reader) to download
your flight. If you want to get "fancy" you can hook it up to a PDA
for a moving-map navigation system; but if you just want to log
flights you only need what comes in the box!
Take care,
--Noel
Tony
i just saw one used on W&W. Based on what I paid for my last Replogle
we could have 8 barographs ready to go in club ships, privately owned
single seaters, whatever, for the price of one EW.
noel.wade
>
> i just saw one used on W&W. Based on what I paid for my last Replogle
> we could have 8 barographs ready to go in club ships, privately owned
> single seaters, whatever, for the price of one EW.
Yes, but you're not taking into account the maintenance hassles and
failure rates of the barograph; not to mention the fact that it cannot
be used for all badges (see Kirk's comments).
Don't focus on acquisition cost - focus on the "cost of ownership"
over the long run; not just in dollars but in man-hours and stress,
too. Having been through the Silver Badge rigmarole, in my opinion
NOTHING is more discouraging to a budding XC pilot than to go have a
good flight and then be told it won't be accepted because of a
technicality or instrumentation flaw. Be realistic about how many
people are going on badge flights, and how often they will be doing
so. Chances are that any modest-sized club doesn't really need more
than 1 or 2 logger devices. You're much better off getting a
reliable, simple, self-contained unit that is good for every type of
badge and contest.
If the newer club pilots really get into doing these kinds of flights,
they can go out and get their own logger so that they can post their
flights to the OLC and fly badges and contests whenever they want...
its still a lot cheaper to buy a logger than it is to buy your own
glider!
If you give them old equipment that causes them frustration or lost
flights, they'll give up on both the equipment AND on the flying.
My $0.02,
--Noel
Andy
>
> - Show quoted text -
I'll donate my 35mm cameras if you really want to load up with useless
stuff. May even still have an Instamatic but no film available for
those any more. Also have 2 prayer wheels. The 1-26 one should be
about right for the Cherokee.
Andy
noel.wade
ewMicroRecorder for $425... They're not expensive when you consider
that's less than 10 aerotows or 2 annual inspections almost anywhere
in the USA!
Tony
oh i know all about barograph failures. I had about 3 or 4 before my
Silver Badge 'stuck'
My first Silver distance and altitude claim as an OO just got approved
yesterday for a club member who was borrowing my barograph. It worked
flawlessly.
In a lot of ways its 6 one way and half dozen another. Another club
member has had 2 diamond altitude flights that he didnt submit because
thanks to the GPS they would've been rejected. Both flights would've
been fine if a Barograph had been used.
Tony
>
> - Show quoted text -
Andy -
Turnpoint photos are no longer part of the Sporting Code. Makes life
simpler but forces you to use a flight recorder for Diamond Goal which
is a bummer.
BT
ones to submit a badge claim with a barograph. I think there are two left in
the club. There were some FAI rules changes that may not allow a mechanical
barograph any more.
Calibration requirements with mechanical barographs are a lot more stringent
than with an approved logger.
And turn point photo's are still required for out and back flights.
Bill
"Tony" <abco...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:973f89da-a5bf-4ffe...@f14g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
Tony
> Tony.. check with "The Badge Lady".. a couple of years ago we were the only
> ones to submit a badge claim with a barograph. I think there are two left in
> the club. There were some FAI rules changes that may not allow a mechanical
> barograph any more.
>
> Calibration requirements with mechanical barographs are a lot more stringent
> than with an approved logger.
> And turn point photo's are still required for out and back flights.
>
> Bill
>
Bill,
read the sporting code. It was updated last October.
Barographs are still perfectly acceptable for all badge flights except
Diamond Goal. Turn Point photos no longer exist as far as the FAI is
concerned. The only way to fly a pre declared task any more is with a
gps logger.
I recently OO'd a Silver Distance/Altitude flight using a barograph
and it was approved yesterday.
Martin Gregorie
Keep your eyes open for a used EW model D and a Garmin 12XL[1] or GPS II+
to drive it. The combo should be rather cheaper. The model D is rugged
and simple to use (only one button) and runs off 12v or its one internal
9v battery.
[1] if you go for a Garmin 12, make sure its the 12XL, which takes 6-40v
input just like the GPS II+ and III+ do. The earlier 12 requires 6v and
is destroyed if you connect it to 12v. How I know: a club mate found this
out the hard way.
--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
Andy
> Turnpoint photos are no longer part of the Sporting Code.
Hence the offer of *useless* equipment.
Burt Compton - Marfa
feel good . . . the smooth machined drum for the trace paper . . .
the little fingertip handle as you carry it to the sailplane. I keep
two Replogle barographs ready for altitude flights at Marfa in
southwest Texas. Visiting pilots may borrow one as a backup to their
logger.
Preparing the barograph follows a time-honored and traditional
protocol that is deliberate and in sequence. For luck, we always wind
the clock spring (very slowly and gently) with a US quarter coin from
North Carolina, the issue with the 1903 Wright airplane (motorglider)
on it. The increasing tension of the spring as you wind it and the
sound of the clockworks ticking matches your anticipation of a
"personal-best" soaring flight. The barograph comes to life, and it
has a heartbeat.
On my shelf in my hangar I display a vintage smoke foil mechanical
barograph given to my father Fritz Compton by Wolf Hirth (the German
soaring pioneer) after WWII. Dad used it for his soaring badges and
his Bendix trophy flights beginning in 1948. I used it for my Silver
Badge flights decades ago. Tradition.
You can still have your barograph calibrated in the USA. I use Joe
Trinkwalder in Tonawanda, NY, who calibrates each Ed Replogle
barograph with great care and reverence for his late friend "Rep".
Contact info is in "Soaring" magazine classified ad section under
Instruments, along with other calibration labs.
Here is Ed's Obit: Ed ("Rep") Replogle, an engineer and inventor
whose career as a pilot spanned nearly seven decades, died on February
17, 2002 in Buffalo, NY.
Born in 1916 in Columbus, OH, Rep soloed in 1932 in a Gypsy Moth
biplane. His soaring career began in a Franklin Utility at a glider
club at the University of Michigan, where he graduated with a degree
in Aeronautical Engineering in 1938. His distinguished engineering
career included stints with Budd, Kaiser Fleetwing, Bellanca and Bell
Aircraft; finishing up as an independent inventor with over 20 patents
to his credit.
Rep's record as a competitive soaring pilot included wins the 1-26
(Region 1 1968, 21st Wright Memorial), standard (Region 1 1974, Region
6 South 1988) and 15 meter (Region 4 1983, Region 6 1983) classes.
Nonetheless, he is probably best known in soaring circles for his
Replogle Barograph, which has sold over 3000 units since its
introduction in 1965. Rep is survived by his wife June, and sons
Doug and Ron.
Ed Replogle's heartbeat continues as clockwork ticks in his
barographs . . .
Burt
Marfa, west Texas
USA
Westbender
calibrating baragraphs used for soaring badges.
I sent mine to a company that was very responsive and provided a quick
turn-around. However, the calibration documentation was not accepted
when I submitted it with my flight. The beginning and ending altitude
(sea-level) was not labeled next to the bottom "steps" on the lab
trace. So, if you don't use someone like Joe Trinkwalder, you might
think about asking Judy to verify the calibration before bothering to
use it. She will reject on the slightest technicality. Although that's
no fault of hers. She's just going by the book.
Grider Pirate
I also had a badge claim rejected due to mistakes on the calibration.
If you have a previous calibration trace, compare it to the new one to
see if anything is amiss!
mattm
> X-no-archive: yes
> In article <6ee2ec5c-b126-4507-9d0d-da0e1035e...@q8g2000vbm.googlegroups
> .com>, Tony <abcon...@gmail.com> writes
> Recorders (seehttp://www.fai.org/gliding/position_recorders) were
> added, and it is a condition for most of these (because they do not have
> pressure recording) that a Barograph is also carried.
>
> Barographs are not dead yet!
>
> Tim Newport-Peace t...@spsys.demon.co.uk
>
> "Indecision is the Key to Flexibility."
Approval for position recorders is up to each national organization.
Currently there's a few of us working on approving some units for
US badge claims. The FlyWithCE recorder that Wings & Wheels
carries should be approved any time now, based on the approval
that Australia already did for the unit. Tim carries that unit for
a very reasonable price. You can use that (if you also carry
a barograph) for badge claims up through Gold.
I was going to say, Noel's offer for his extra EW is very generous
also. They're great units -- they can run off their internal battery
for a long while (long enough for any flight you can make), they
can power your PDA if you hook them up to your 12V system,
and they have lots of internal storage. Tim also carries the Erixx
logger, which is smaller and holds even more flight time. Both
of those loggers are good for any badge or record claim.
You can also see offers to sell various other used recorders at
http://www.segelflug.de/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi
Look under "Biete Instrumente" (and an ability to read some
German helps). You often see Colibris, LX20s, and Volksloggers
for sale there.
-- Matt
Tony
> Approval for position recorders is up to each national organization.
> Currently there's a few of us working on approving some units for
> US badge claims. The FlyWithCE recorder that Wings & Wheels
> carries should be approved any time now, based on the approval
> that Australia already did for the unit. Tim carries that unit for
> a very reasonable price. You can use that (if you also carry
> a barograph) for badge claims up through Gold.
The position recorder/barograph combo that was added to the Sporting
Code last October is definitely an exciting step in the right
direction but I'm not sure what problem it really solves. Any badge
flight you can claim with the position recorder/barograph combo can be
done with the barograph alone.
The only badge leg that cannot be accomplished with a Barograph only
is Diamond Goal and the position recorder cannot be used for Diamond
claims.
I suppose it will be handy for people who dont want to land away from
home. But my feelings on free distance are pretty well documented
here :) I'd rather spend the 100 bucks on 5 more tows or some gas for
the crew car so I get to explore new places.
quietpilot
I have had been gifted a barograph long ago. and may start having a
use for it. where can I learn this art? and get foils/tracepaper. I
have looked and come up empty
uncl...@ix.netcom.com
He also invented the inertia reel seatbelt.
An Amazing guy I was lucky enough to know.
UH
Jim S
Tim Taylor
> 10 year old thread but anybody know where to find a mechanical barograph? Thanks.
James Metcalfe
Also a packet of foils (it'll work with smoked paper, but foil is better).
But ... it's in the UK, and I have no idea how well it would travel, nor
what the authorities would make of chunks of metal for shipping!
J. (MetcalfeIJ {at} gmail.com)
Dan Daly
> 10 year old thread but anybody know where to find a mechanical barograph? Thanks.
1.4 BADGE and RECORD REQUIREMENTS
1.4.1 General
Electronic flight data and a DECLARATION are required except where specifically exempt.
3.3.3 Altitude evidence
a. Up to 15,000 metres, pressure data recorded by an FR shall be used.
NAC (read SSA)-approved position recorders can be used, with GPS altitude, with an altitude penalty, up to the end of the Gold Badge.
To read the Sporting Code, go to https://www.fai.org/igc-documents . Then scroll down and select 'Gliding'. Then select 'Sporting Code - Section 3 Gliding'. Then select 'Current Sporting Code for Gliding'. Then there's a drop-down list. You want the 'Sporting Code Section 3' - which has the definitions; and Annex C, which is the 'how-to'.
Eric Greenwell
> 10 year old thread but anybody know where to find a mechanical barograph? Thanks.
>
ticks after winding - that served me well during my badge hunts in the 70's. It's sitting next
to a Bayside 2 channel, crystal controlled radio, a 121.5 ELT bought when contests required
them, and a $700 moving "map" GPS that took 10 minutes to acquire 5 or 6 satellites, then
display a few airports on the 2.4" B&W screen. Oh, and an Instamatic camera.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
Jim S
I’m not a collector necessarily in aviation items but I do have two aviation sextants (A-10) and a drift meter. Although I don’t shoot stars, the sun and the moon from the cockpit, I have spent a fair amount of time shooting the sun in my backyard.
Wanting a workable barograph is in line with these interests.
Eric Greenwell
sensitive chart paper was much easier to use. I did use smoked foil a few times on a ???
barograph, but it was messy to smoke the foil, and misting some lacquer on it after the flight
was tricky - so easy to smudge the smoke on the foil and lose the trace. So, smoked foil to GPS
traces - I prefer the GPS traces for flying, but the Replogle is prominent on my "shelf museum".
Jim S
Eric Greenwell
heavier, and more expensive, as I recall.
Papa3
We're having a club Maintenance Day tomorrow, so we'll be going through the shed and the shop. I'm pretty sure we have at least one of each of the common models. I can't believe our BOD would want to hang on to them at this point.
Where are you located?
Erik Mann (P3)
AS
And I bet you it was/is pretty unhealthy to do so as well! I hope you did that in the confines of you own home with no impressionable youngsters around. ;-)
Uli
'AS'
Eric Greenwell
with all the black smoke particles floating around. Pretty sure coming out of the trailer
hacking and coughing made any impressionables think they'd stick to skateboards :^)
Roy B.
ROY
Guy Acheson
> I've two old Peravia barographs - with a couple rolls of paper. These were very elegant mechanisms that punched a tiny perforation in a continuous roll of waxed paper every 6 seconds. The drums marked the paper for time so that it was possible with a Peravia to record both altitude and the exact time of the altitude. The paper became quite scarce but it could be made out of household wax paper. Free to a good home. You pay for shipping.
> ROY
give me you e-mail and or phone and we can make a deal?
Jim S
Jim S
> I've two old Peravia barographs - with a couple rolls of paper. These were very elegant mechanisms that punched a tiny perforation in a continuous roll of waxed paper every 6 seconds. The drums marked the paper for time so that it was possible with a Peravia to record both altitude and the exact time of the altitude. The paper became quite scarce but it could be made out of household wax paper. Free to a good home. You pay for shipping.
> ROY
Can you message me? I would love to have one and get it working.
Jim
Jim S
> ROY
Is my email
Roy B.
ROY
Jim S
> Well, the barographs got snapped up and I am happy about that. While looking for them I also found (from the same era) 2 Kodak Instamatic 126 cameras fitted to a turn point mount and 8 boxes of unused Verichome Pan B&W film for them. State of the art . . . 45 years ago. Free for shipping. Any takers?
> ROY
Roy B.
Jim S
Frank Whiteley
Frank Whiteley
Dan Marotta
I got all my Diamonds with a Replogle and an Instamatic. Great fun!
Dan, 5J