Field landings and law of trespass (England)
Richard Brisbourne
concerning an unfortunate glider pilot who landed in a field in the
Newbury/Hungerford area two days previously and was faced with a demand
from the land owner for UKP1000 for access for his retrieve. The report
stated that he had paid nothing and was seeking a writ for access.
My understanding was that landowners were in principle allowed to deny
access, but were responsible for maintaining other people's property in
good condition, so in practice it never happened. I also understood
that damages for trespass were dependent on damage caused.
Apart from expressing sympathy for the pilot involved, I am curious as
to how this finally works out, as it has relevance to all of us who fly
cross-country in England. Does anyone know more? Any lawyers out there
with a view on this?
--
Richard Brisbourne
Agnar Renolen
the UK, but sometimes in the US and in Norway as well. Personally, I
happily pay 10 or 20 quid if the farmer treats me nicely. If he is
angry it's not so pleasent to pay. It is in our interest to have
pleasant farmers around where we fly, and I think glider associations in
each country should make a survey regarding which rules apply, in case
of trouble. Also of interest is insureance for damage of crops and
other equipment (e.g.
irrigation tubes).
If anyone have some knowledge about these matters, please post them to
this newsgroup.
Agnar Renolen
NTH FLykulbb.
John Wren
with the same problem. If the pilot landed near the Rivar Hill club, there
were several land owners who were anti gliders. The day I landed the owner
came out and said " I've got you now." He demanded 100 quid and gave me a
lot of verbal abuse. Soon most of the club showed up at the field and then
the police. The officer explain that the land owner could hold the glider,
but he would then be responsible for any damage. My Skylark 3f then went up
in price quickly. We were then allowed to remove the glider. The field was
mowed grass and no damaged was done. For months the land owner would show up
at my door step and demand money. I would gave him my insurance company's
name, but he never put in a claim. This guy just wanted to pester someone.
In the past 20 years there have been many more field landing, but never the
response as I had in Hungerford area.
John Wren
Past Ink Pen club member
Richard Brisbourne wrote in message ...
Thiemo Gorath
> the UK, but sometimes in the US and in Norway as well. Personally, I
> happily pay 10 or 20 quid if the farmer treats me nicely. If he is
> angry it's not so pleasent to pay. It is in our interest to have
well, in Germany things look a little different (to my knowledge).
Over here Landowners certainly have the right to deny the access to a
property, but on the other hand we have law's over here that ensure the
posibility to get the aircraft off that land.
In addition we all have insurances that pay for crop damages and or other
damages caused by those landings. - In other words: If the landowner/
farmer starts to be "unplesant" there is a way to get the aircraft off his
property and have the insurance pay for it.
I persoanlly got to the impression that close to 100% of the farmers are
afarid and check out if anything happened - if they see the landing.
Usually nobody is p.o. from the beginning. And if they ask me if I could
pay a bit for the damages caused, I have no problem doing that - as long
as the amount they ask for is not too much in my eyes. Insurances would
probably pay a lot less - the farmers would be unhappy and would start to
do anything they could against us flying gliders and sometimes landing on
their lands.
Regards,
Thiemo
P.s.: And a lot of times one also gets a nice lunch at the farmhouses,
waiting for the trailor and team to get the aircraft off the
unconventional landing strip.... :-)
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thiemo Gorath private: tgo...@cal.ping.de
http://www.ping.de/~tgorath office: tgo...@pcz.uni-dortmund.de
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Haluza
John Wren wrote in message <6oq3rs$s7t$1...@lwnws01.ne.highway1.com>...
>I too landed in the Hungerford area several times (20 years ago) and was
met
>with the same problem. If the pilot landed near the Rivar Hill club, there
>were several land owners who were anti gliders. The day I landed the owner
>came out and said " I've got you now." He demanded 100 quid and gave me a
>lot of verbal abuse. Soon most of the club showed up at the field and then
>the police. The officer explain that the land owner could hold the glider,
>but he would then be responsible for any damage. My Skylark 3f then went up
>in price quickly. We were then allowed to remove the glider. The field was
>mowed grass and no damaged was done. For months the land owner would show
up
>at my door step and demand money. I would gave him my insurance company's
>name, but he never put in a claim. This guy just wanted to pester someone.
>
I beleive the laws are similar in the US. I remember reading a similar
account and, fortunately have never needed to recount it, other than to
other pilots. If you do find a land-owner denying access to the glider, you
must respect his wishes. He does have that right. What you need to do is
explain that you have insurance which will pay for any damages caused to the
farmer. They will also pay for any damages caused to the glider. By denying
access to the glider, the farmer is taking responsibility for its safe
keeping. Since he probably does not know how to protect a fragile glider,
this may cuase further damages. Either way the pilot is covered. However,
since the farmer is denying access to the glider, the insurance company will
go after the farmer to recover their loss. If the farmer doesn't understand
and accept this explanation, a police officer usually will. Let the officer
explain it to the farmer in private.
As for "landing fees" there are two schools of thought. You could demand to
see the airport license that allows the farmer to charge a landing fee. But
this is only likely to cause more aggrevation and leave a bad impression for
the next pilot. Remember, you picked out his field among many, and another
pilot may do the same. My personal thought is that you should consider your
own pay rate at work and the amount of the farmer's time you occupied (over
and above any damages or equipment usage). If the amount he is asking is
less than what you would earn in the same time, pay it.
Tomasz Sielicki
to calm down an angry land owner (which happens very rarely) if you take out the
insurance forms to be filled in in order to get the money. Normally, nobody
wants to bother.
I usually warn farmers that if we don't push the glider away from the field to
the nearest road immediately, excursions of curious people will do much more
harm to the cultivation than my glider wheels did.Only once did I receive some
initial grudging upon an outlanding. In other cases it ended up in a party or a
family grill once the glider was on the trailer.
Tomasz Sielicki
John Wren wrote:
> I too landed in the Hungerford area several times (20 years ago) and was met
> with the same problem. If the pilot landed near the Rivar Hill club, there
> were several land owners who were anti gliders. The day I landed the owner
> came out and said " I've got you now." He demanded 100 quid and gave me a
> lot of verbal abuse. Soon most of the club showed up at the field and then
> the police. The officer explain that the land owner could hold the glider,
> but he would then be responsible for any damage. My Skylark 3f then went up
> in price quickly. We were then allowed to remove the glider. The field was
> mowed grass and no damaged was done. For months the land owner would show up
> at my door step and demand money. I would gave him my insurance company's
> name, but he never put in a claim. This guy just wanted to pester someone.
>
Shaber CJ
<ric...@rbris.demon.co.uk> writes:
>Apart from expressing sympathy for the pilot involved, I am curious as
>to how this finally works out, as it has relevance to all of us who fly
>cross-country in England. Does anyone know more? Any lawyers out there
>with a view on this?
>--
In English common law there is a concept called "Trespass by necessity". If
you have no choice buy to trespass (say for safety reasons) then the law allows
such a trespass, as the higher good is for the safety of the citizens.
However, you must pay for damages incurred by the trespass. Barring some local
law to the contrary, if you trespass by necessity and there are no damages to
the landowner property, then you should not be required by law to pay for a
trespass.
There was an incident in the US about ten years ago where a chicken farmer
claimed that the glider that landed on his farm scared his chickens and causes
some deaths. He was very irate and called the police. The funny thing was his
chickens were kept in an enclosed building where all lighting was controlled to
increase egg output, and the farmer owned and flew a helicopter from the
facility.
Some people are just naturally grumpy.
Emilis Prelgauskas
that the police have in the rare occassions when a farmer has obstructed
a glider retrieve held the farmer at bay while the crew retireved the
glider, then advised the farmer of his compensation right to actual
damage.
at a few sites, known irate farmers are prominently marked on clubroom
wall hung maps,
I know only one case where actual money changed hands, because the claim
was small, and the easy way to ssettle the matter.
My own experiences have always been that farmers are very helpful
(including towing gliders ouyt of soft fields with tractors and so on),
and gl;ider pilots I know try to reciprocate by sending a thank you
letter with a photo of the farm family by the glider (using up the end of
the contest or badge flight film strip).
Emilis
Geoff Butler
>There was a short article in the Daily Telegraph last Thursday
>concerning an unfortunate glider pilot who landed in a field in the
>Newbury/Hungerford area two days previously and was faced with a demand
>from the land owner for UKP1000 for access for his retrieve. The report
>stated that he had paid nothing and was seeking a writ for access.
>
>My understanding was that landowners were in principle allowed to deny
>access, but were responsible for maintaining other people's property in
>good condition, so in practice it never happened. I also understood
>that damages for trespass were dependent on damage caused.
>
>to how this finally works out, as it has relevance to all of us who fly
>cross-country in England. Does anyone know more? Any lawyers out there
>with a view on this?
The pilot is Barry Kerby, who flies from Stratford, although at the time
he was on a BGA cross-country course at Bicester. The landowner is an
ex-judge, ex because it was felt inappropriate for a judge to have so
many drink-driving convictions on his record.
The field was short grass, and no damage was done. The landowner claimed
trespass, and was offensive and abusive to everyone concerned, including
the police. Barry was physically ejected from the land, without being
allowed access to the aircraft to secure it or retrieve even his car
keys from the cockpit.
The police informed the landowner that, if he impounded the aircraft, he
had a duty of care towards it, and would be liable for the repair of any
damage while it was in his care. They were, however, unable to persuade
him to relent. Landowners are entitled to charge 'landing fees' provided
that they are 'reasonable', but nobody considered GBP1000 to be a
reasonable fee. Also, trespass is a civil offence, not a criminal
offence, so the police could not get involved in that.
The conclusion is quite reassuring. The following morning, Barry
informed his insurance company, and it was them who got the injunction
for the landowner to release the aircraft. It was retrieved that day,
undamaged. I have no idea whether that's the end of the affair, though.
Geoff Butler, Stratford on Avon GC
Toulson017
<ric...@rbris.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>There was a short article in the Daily Telegraph last Thursday
>concerning an unfortunate glider pilot who landed in a field in the
>Newbury/Hungerford area two days previously and was faced with a demand
>from the land owner for UKP1000 for access for his retrieve. The report
>stated that he had paid nothing and was seeking a writ for access.
This is an interesting situation. There is, without doubt, a hardening of
attitude of farmers to glider pilots landing in their fields. Much of this
results from the baloonists to whom every XC results in an outlanding on
someone else's property, quite often acompanied by several passengers who have
little idea of farming needs or practises. Additionally, balloonists are
frequently the cause of animals being frightened by low "burns".
Furthermore, there appears to be a reluctance of a minotity of "landers", be
they glider pilots, balloonists, hang glider pilots etc. to recognise that they
are the trespassers on someone else's property and that they are not wanted
(Would anyone want an uninvited visitor into their garden, factory etc.??.) so
there have been incidents where the aviator has not adopted the attitude of a
trespasser and has caused some ill will.
As both an ex farmer and a glider pilot, my sympathies are 100 % with farmers
at the outset. Glider pilots are trespassers and they should expect to be both
extremely apologetic and prepared to pay, via their insurance, for any damage
incurred. However, I accept that many farmers treat trespassers rather roughly
and may make unreasonable demands but controlled courtesy and offers to
reimburse damage through insurance claims procedures will usually placate all
but the most unreasonable.
Wher no agreement can be reached, the glider pilot should tell the farmer,
that, as they cannot agree, he will call the police to resolve the issue.
I cannot over emphasise the need for glider pilots to be extremely polite and
correct when trespassing on farmers fields. Farming is a close knit industry
and one rude or arrogant pilot can cause great difficulty for others across the
entire country. The NFU (National Farmers Union) produce guidelines for farmers
on how to treat glider pilots and balloonists who land in their fields and the
majority of farmers accept, with some reluctance, this invasion, with great
goodwill.
Barney
UK
Armand A. Medeiros
>
> majority of farmers accept, with some reluctance, this invasion, with great
> goodwill.
>
> Barney
> UK
I concure. I had to land in a dried rice field (well, sorta...about one
inch of soft clayish dirt) and the farmer and his son graciously drove
their tractor out to yank me and my trailer out. I sent him a gift
certificate for a good glider ride since he wouldn't accept a dime!
AAM
Eric June
a small bottle of premium Scotch or Brandy. When you land in a field
and see the presumed landowner approaching, get out the bottle, rush to
the approaching landowner with a smile, and say something like: "Hello
there, you must be the landowner. I just want to thank you from the
bottom of my heart for having such a great field here when I needed it.
Without your superb field, I would have likely crashed and died when the
wind stopped. Please allow me to give you this bottle of Scotch as a
token of my appreciation!"
Note that most non-pilots believe that the "wind stopping" is a sure way
to make a soaring aircraft crash! Also note that the Scotch/Brandy is
not meant for in-air consumption by the pilot, no matter how frustrating
the day is! :-)
The idea is to diffuse any potentially confrontational situation before
you ever get to the legal issues. Once you get that far, noone wins, no
matter who is actually right.
A key thing to remember is that the landowner is correct, and you are
the trespasser and wrong. If the landowner begins to yell at you to
vent his anger, let him. Don't interrupt. When he finishes, tell him
that he is absolutely right, apologize, say it won't happen again, and
be polite/humble. An irate person *wants* you to argue so that they can
yell more. When you agree with them, they have little else to do. This
happened to me 3 times in one ill-fated XC season, and the technique
worked each time.
--
Regards,
Eric June
er...@kudonet.com
Hang Gliding Page: http://home.kudonet.com/~ericj/hang.htm
rob...@stones.com
>
> As both an ex farmer and a glider pilot, my sympathies are 100 % with farmers
> at the outset. Glider pilots are trespassers and they should expect to be both
> extremely apologetic and prepared to pay, via their insurance, for any damage
> incurred.
I don't want to get into a fight here but what exactly is it that makes a
farmer angry when a glider lands in his field ? I accept that damage may
have been caused but the farmer knows that he will be compensated so what is
left other than an interesting story for the local pub. I am genuinly
confused as to why there are so many stories of farmers going ballistic when
someone lands in an unused grass field. If any one knows the answer don't
flame me, just explain. I don't think that technical trespass is really a
reason for bad temper. If someeone crashed his bike through my hedge and
landed on my front lawn he would be trespassing but I would never dream of
getting angry and I doubt I would even complain about the crushed flowers.
Obviously if it happened a lot I would get irate and I can sympathise with
farmers near Gliding Clubs if they do get a lot of field landings but from
what I can see this is not usually the case.
The NFU (National Farmers Union) produce guidelines for
farmers
> on how to treat glider pilots and balloonists who land in their fields and the
> majority of farmers accept, with some reluctance, this invasion, with great
> goodwill.
>
> Barney
> UK
>
Are we allowed to know what the NFU guidelines are ?
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John Wren
>met
>>with the same problem. If the pilot landed near the Rivar Hill club, there
>>were several land owners who were anti gliders. The day I landed the owner
>>came out and said " I've got you now." He demanded 100 quid and gave me a
>>lot of verbal abuse. Soon most of the club showed up at the field and then
>>the police. The officer explain that the land owner could hold the glider,
>>but he would then be responsible for any damage. My Skylark 3f then went
up
>>in price quickly. We were then allowed to remove the glider. The field was
>>mowed grass and no damaged was done. For months the land owner would show
>up
>>at my door step and demand money. I would gave him my insurance company's
>>name, but he never put in a claim. This guy just wanted to pester someone.
>>
>
>As for "landing fees" there are two schools of thought. You could demand to
>see the airport license that allows the farmer to charge a landing fee. But
>this is only likely to cause more aggrevation and leave a bad impression
for
>the next pilot. Remember, you picked out his field among many, and another
>pilot may do the same. My personal thought is that you should consider your
>own pay rate at work and the amount of the farmer's time you occupied (over
>and above any damages or equipment usage). If the amount he is asking is
>less than what you would earn in the same time, pay it.
Doug, most cross country pilots should be prepared to offer a fee to the
land owner or have some scheme to make the owner feel that you appreciate
the help. In the original thread the fee was near $1600 for just the
landing with no damage. Insurance companies will pay for damage, but they
draw the line at ransom fees. In my case there was clearly no damage and it
was also clear that the individual wanted to make it as tough as he could
for any glider pilot. Twenty years ago 100 quid was nearly a month pay.
BTW I fly in the states now. In fact, I've been rigging you glider for the
past few weeks. I'll say hi to Jim for ya :-)
--
John Wren
John Wren
Leszek Frasinski
> The field was short grass, and no damage was done.
What is the value of 1 square metre of wheat? Are there more expensive
crops?
--
Leszek Frasinski, paraglider pilot
Tor Olav Steine
> There was a short article in the Daily Telegraph last Thursday
> concerning an unfortunate glider pilot who landed in a field in the
> Newbury/Hungerford area two days previously and was faced with a demand
> from the land owner for UKP1000 for access for his retrieve. The report
> stated that he had paid nothing and was seeking a writ for access.
The best strategy is to be positive and co-operate fully. During a field
landing we have, after all, trespassed someone's property. On the other
hand, any payment or 'landing fee' should be directly related to damage
assessment from a neutral body. In Norway, the saying is that we will pay
for any damage as assessed by the local 'jordstyre' or 'agricultural land
assessment body' (lousy translation, but I guess the intended meaning is
clear). That claim stops most complaints, since the normal value is
negligible.
Some newspapers refer to glider field landings as 'emergency landings', and
you do not pay for 'saving your life'?
> My understanding was that landowners were in principle allowed to deny
> access, but were responsible for maintaining other people's property in
> good condition, so in practice it never happened. I also understood
> that damages for trespass were dependent on damage caused.
>
> Apart from expressing sympathy for the pilot involved, I am curious as
> to how this finally works out, as it has relevance to all of us who fly
> cross-country in England. Does anyone know more? Any lawyers out there
> with a view on this?
> --
> Richard Brisbourne
--
Tor Olav Steine
_________________________________________________________________
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@totem.co.uk Mike Benson
That is the fact that there is an un invited "trespass" onto "my" land.
People get very very protective of property, more so it seems with land.
Fritz Zaucker
> I don't want to get into a fight here but what exactly is it that
> makes a farmer angry when a glider lands in his field ? I accept
> that damage may have been caused but the farmer knows that he will
> be compensated so what is left other than an interesting story for
> the local pub.
A colleague of mine was asked by the owner of the field next to the
one he landed on to drag the glider onto HIS field so that he could
claim to his friends and neighbours that the glider had landed on his
field. My colleague was then invited home to this farmers house and
treated to a nice dinner while waiting for the trailer. He was also
offered a bed for staying over night in case the trailer was late.
This was in Italy, I guess Southerners are a bit mroe relaxed about
these issues ...
Fritz
--
Dr. Fritz Zaucker, Head IT Support Group
Department of Electrical Engineering, Federal Institute of Technology
ETZ J97, Gloriastrasse 35, 8092 Zurich, Switzerland
Tel.: +41-1-632-5241 Fax: +41-1-632-1194 http://www.ee-staff.ethz.ch/~zaucker/
E-mail: zau...@ee.ethz.ch (see home page for PGP key)
F.L. Whiteley
Sometimes, it's hard to find the rancher during a landout, so gaining
access to retrieve a glider is simplified by being prepared.
When going on the retrieve, take bolt cutters, fencing wire, and a padlock.
If you find a gate, you cut the chain and add the lock when leaving.
There are often several locks already on this chain, especially if the gate
is on a dirt road. One more makes no difference. If there is no gate,
then cutting the fence will be required. Always repair the fence when
leaving.
At the Region 9 Sports contest at Canon City a few weeks ago, we sent the
retrieve crew out with the padlock. Since the ranch was abandoned, the
County Sheriff was notified in case a complaint was received. The crew
forgot the bolt cutters but had a hack saw. A sheriif's deputy stopped by
while they were working on the chain and smiled while pointing out that
there was a key to the exisitng lock hanging on a nail on the gatepost;^)
So always have a look around, this is a pretty common practice out here.
F. Whiteley
Colorado Soaring Assn.
Tomasz Sielicki
Tor Olav Steine wrote:(...)
> Some newspapers refer to glider field landings as 'emergency landings', and
> you do not pay for 'saving your life'?
According to the Polish Aviation Law a glider field landing IS an emergency
landing and local authorities are bound by law to render any help needed to
secure the glider.
Tomasz Sielicki
Toulson017
>
>I don't want to get into a fight here but what exactly is it that makes a
>farmer angry when a glider lands in his field ?
Would you be happy if someone parked their car on your lawn?
Somehow I doubt it. That is the comparison. Farmland is more to the owner than
just a workplace and an asset. It is usually his home as well.
Barney
Toulson017
>
>Are we allowed to know what the NFU guidelines are ?
>
They are published and I think the BGA have a copy. If not, ask your local
branch of the National Farmers Union, there is one in every town.
Barney
JohnPegase
writes:
>The best strategy is to be positive and co-operate fully. During a field
>landing we have, after all, trespassed someone's property. On the other
>hand, any payment or 'landing fee' should be directly related to damage
>assessment from a neutral body. In Norway, the saying is that we will pay
>for any damage as assessed by the local 'jordstyre' or 'agricultural land
>assessment body' (lousy translation, but I guess the intended meaning is
>clear). That claim stops most complaints, since the normal value is
>negligible.
>
>Some newspapers refer to glider field landings as 'emergency landings', and
>you do not pay for 'saving your life'?
>
>
>--
>Tor Olav Steine
The rehersed line I use when a famer seems a bit annoyed is as follows:-
"I'm very sorry but I didn't have much choice, it was an emergancy landing,
either crash and die over there on that unlandable ground/crop/field of
animals, or land here and stay alive! If there's any damage,the insurance
company pays up. You simply get your NFU rep and I'll get mine, they'll assess
the damage and the insurers will pay up."
I mention that I have a friend who assesses fields for a living, and the words
"get your NFU rep and I'll get mine " lets them know that I know what to do.
Usually they stop and think about this, and the "crash and die over there"
phrase, and then smile and we're good friends. (My friend once landout out and
ended up walking the farmers field, advising on a better choice of hybrid plant
to use and the nutrients his field seemed to be missing!)
I sometimes add that glider pilots are not like balloonists, the last thing we
want to do is land in a farm field, it's a life or death situation, where as
the balloonists just drop in deliberately because they know they can't possibly
get home. This then diverts the conversation to the problems with balloonists
frightening animals and burning crops, something we glider pilots never do, and
usually they become very pleasant and helpful. Not always unfortunately, but
I've only had two problems in about 50 field landings.
John Wright, 742
Martin Judkins
<ge...@gbutler.demon.LoseThisBit.co.uk> writes
>The conclusion is quite reassuring. The following morning, Barry
>informed his insurance company, and it was them who got the injunction
>for the landowner to release the aircraft. It was retrieved that day,
>undamaged. I have no idea whether that's the end of the affair, though.
>
>Geoff Butler, Stratford on Avon GC
Geoff, can you find out who the insurance company was? Sounds like the
sort of company to be with.
--
Martin at judkins dot demon.co.uk
Willy VINKEN
<spsf...@reading.ac.uk> wrote:
>On Sun, 19 Jul 1998, Geoff Butler wrote:
>
>> The field was short grass, and no damage was done.
>
>What is the value of 1 square metre of wheat? Are there more expensive
>crops?
Most of the time, farmers are quite friendly and helpful people.
I usually pay $ 10 or so for the phonecall, coffee and disturbance.
Plus, of course, a decent compensation for possible damages.
If they don't accept, I give it to the kids. They never say 'no'...
Sometimes, you hit the really stingy fellow. You feel it at first
sight: he wants everything, and more than that. He is convinced
that you are stupid, and that you have no knowledge of farming at all.
When this happens, I come up with a pre-printed form ('for the
insurance company'...) that we are going to fill in together. And
sign.
We assess the real damages as number of plants or surface destroyed.
This can be counted and measured. I take a couple of pictures 'as
proof for the insurance company'.
It shows clearly on his face, when he realizes that I know there is a
difference between sugar-beet and mangel-wurzel. Then I come up with
the best yield per acre for that crop in the last 10 years. We jot it
down on the form and he knows the figures are optimistic, to say the
least. As we proceed, he glances at me more and more, out of the
corner of his eye.
We compute a rule of 3, and for good measure, I multiply the final sum
by a factor of 10, to take into account any 'incidental expenses'.
By then, he wishes he had accepted my first offer.
This is when I reach for my wallet, 'so he won't have to wait for the
insurance company to pay'. He quickly agrees that the insurance
company is not a good option. He probably remembers the 10x factor...
Of course, my early offer is no valid settlement any longer. It only
shows how stupid a pilot can be, when he dabbles in farming ...
This applied-farmer-psychology procedure is exceptional but is
sure-fire in our part of Western-Europe (Belgium - France).
Our country is densily populated: crops are not much damaged by
landing gears. Onlookers are much more dangerous.
By the way: all necessary knowledge is easy to come by: just ask a
friendly farmer. In half an hour, you'll know what crops to expect in
what season, and how much they really get for an acre, when the
harvest is exceptional.
If he isn't in a hurry, listen to the farmer while waiting for the
retrieval crew. You'll learn a lot.
Willy OO-ZNY OO-ZVY OO-ZKM
Chris Rowland
<ge...@gbutler.demon.LoseThisBit.co.uk> wrote:
>Richard Brisbourne <ric...@rbris.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>There was a short article in the Daily Telegraph last Thursday
>>concerning an unfortunate glider pilot who landed in a field in the
>>Newbury/Hungerford area two days previously and was faced with a demand
>>from the land owner for UKP1000 for access for his retrieve. The report
>>stated that he had paid nothing and was seeking a writ for access.
We have been concerned about this at Booker, where the regionals are
on this week. One theory from the 'launch point lawyers' is that to
deprive the pilot of his property is theft, this is the same as if a
garage refuses to hand over your car until you pay the bill.
I wonder if a pilot crashes trying to land in this area while avoiding
this farm, could he claim damages? This may be tenuous in law but it
is a real concern as far at the pilot is concerned.
<snip>
>The field was short grass, and no damage was done. The landowner claimed
>trespass, and was offensive and abusive to everyone concerned, including
>the police. Barry was physically ejected from the land, without being
>allowed access to the aircraft to secure it or retrieve even his car
>keys from the cockpit.
>
>The police informed the landowner that, if he impounded the aircraft, he
>had a duty of care towards it, and would be liable for the repair of any
>damage while it was in his care. They were, however, unable to persuade
>him to relent. Landowners are entitled to charge 'landing fees' provided
>that they are 'reasonable', but nobody considered GBP1000 to be a
>reasonable fee. Also, trespass is a civil offence, not a criminal
>offence, so the police could not get involved in that.
>
>The conclusion is quite reassuring. The following morning, Barry
>informed his insurance company, and it was them who got the injunction
>for the landowner to release the aircraft. It was retrieved that day,
>undamaged. I have no idea whether that's the end of the affair, though.
>
>Geoff Butler, Stratford on Avon GC
Good to hear that the glider is back, I wonder what happens next...
Chris Rowland
Steve Peltz
Chris Rowland <ch...@sapiens.nildram.co.uk> wrote:
>deprive the pilot of his property is theft, this is the same as if a
>garage refuses to hand over your car until you pay the bill.
I'd have thought the concept of a "mechanics lien" originated in English
common law.
The difference between a garage where you've dropped off your car to have
some work done on it, and a field where you were forced to land, is that
in the former case you had a contract (at the least, an implied contract;
usually I'm required to sign a form authorizing the work) to do some work.
I like the concept someone mentioned of "Necessary Trespass". Seems to cover
the situation quite nicely, and fairly.
Grahame Underwood
about 50m from the farmhouse, feeling pretty smug like you do (field was OK,
wind was where I thought, circuit well planned, half-brake approach, not
much mouth-breathing - you know the feeling). By the time I had opened the
canopy and got out, the farmer was standing there with a tray of ice-cold
beer. What a welcome after 5 hot hours . He said a Swiss guy had landed
there the year before in a better glider than mine!
So the stories aren't all bad.
Ian Johnston
: Just an aside: On my first field landing in France, ...
On my first field landing, after my first cross country, the farmer's opening
word were:
1) Did you fall out the sky?
2) Would you like a phone?
3) Have you had lunch?
She was tickled pink by the whole thing - that was in the north of England.
Ian
Keith
Grahame Underwood <gra...@digby.demon.co.uk> writes
that I was going to land out about 15K out on a silver badge flight.
They worked out from the map reference that the farmer was a known
hostile native. The Chipmunk Tug was immediately dispatched with a full
silver P2, and they practically followed me down the approach.
I was unceremoniously dragged from the cockpit, ordered to hold the
wing tip, and given instructions to run like hell for the main road once
they had taken off. As the aerotow disappeared over the far boundary the
farmer bounced into view atop a charging tractor, but I didn't stay
around to chat. I was finally picked up an hour later.
By the time I had paid for the aerotow retrieve, the pick up car, and
the inevitable round of drinks I would have been cheaper paying the
farmer!
--
20 years ago I was
Scannalot
John Wilton
really appreciated your efforts.
John Wilton
Keith wrote in message ...
Mike Paley
to>Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
to>In article <6ovan3$9r3$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, rob...@stones.com
to>writes: >
to>>I don't want to get into a fight here but what exactly is it that
to>>makes a farmer angry when a glider lands in his field ?
to>Would you be happy if someone parked their car on your lawn?
to>Somehow I doubt it. That is the comparison. Farmland is more to the
to>owner than just a workplace and an asset. It is usually his home as
to>well. Barney
I know of a farmer with his own airfield. It is of course littered with sheep
and things, but never-the-less just about landable on. The farmer gets
a bottle annually at Christmas which helps him understand.
Thing is, (and unusually, I'm being serious), he's got a new crop on
his airfield which makes landing quite tricky since it's becoming a wind farm !
--
Comm again, Mike.
Many people have said to me: "If you had a brain, you'd be dangerous." Fortunately, I haven't
Ex Turnpike user, Ex Demon customer WordStar worshipper,
Ex Windows 95 user, Ex Pentium believer Windows 98 got as far as cre
Net-Tamer V 1.09.2 - Test Drive
Mike Paley
em>My own experiences have always been that farmers are very helpful
em>(including towing gliders ouyt of soft fields with tractors and so
em>on), and gl;ider pilots I know try to reciprocate by sending a
em>thank you letter with a photo of the farm family by the glider
em>(using up the end of the contest or badge flight film strip).
Wot ? No aerial photo of their farm for them (taken prior to landing).
So you've just landed... "'Scuse me, would you be interested in an aerial
photograph of your farm I've just taken ?"
Mike Paley
ro>I am genuinly confused as to why there are so many
ro>stories of farmers going ballistic when someone lands in an unused
ro>grass field.
It's the nature of the beasts.
Possibly to do with having a 24 hour working day 365 days a year.
edwards alexander
America, undercariage mounted directly onto the low mounted wing) after
the engine would not restart. I think it may not be true but is a good
story anyway.
The motorglider landed on a disused private airstrip that due to
errosion now had a rough surface. During the landing roll the tail wheel
broke off.
The owner of the glider is known for not being very subtle. When the
farmer approached the pilot complained bitterly about the condition of
the airstrip and it was lucky that he was not going to demand the the
farmer pay for the damage to the glider.
The pilot was picked up by a car and was to return in a week with the
parts to repair the wheel.
When the pilot returned he found the airstrip all plowed except for the
patch that the plane sat on. As anyone who has seen the Xamgio can
confirm a crane is required to derig to support the fuselage.
Farmer: 1
Pilot: 0
Jean Richard
>
> I was told a story once about an out landing in a Xamgio(??Made in South
> America, undercariage mounted directly onto the low mounted wing)
You probably mean Ximango - A Fournier design built in Brazil -
composite motor sailplane with a Rotax engine.
J. Richard
Christopher H Thorpe
Operating in engine-on "touring" mode, pilot continued flying into
deteriorating weather conditions. Eventually turned back and landed on ag
strip, damaging tailwheel assembly. Minor damage.
Story about abusing farmer and having paddock plowed is true (was related to
me by the GFA Director of Operations).
Christopher Thorpe
http://users.netconnect.com.au/~pbuskens/
edwards alexander wrote in message <35BBEB...@lab.eng.usyd.edu.au>...
>I was told a story once about an out landing in a Xamgio(??Made in South