Alexander Schleicher: Which planes do/did they make?
Jonathan Gogan
People refer to the 'K8' and the Ka8
and so on, e.g. ASK13.
All of which may be abbreviations of
the full title;
K13 = AS K 13
K8 = AS K 8 a
i.e. The K13 is the '13' plane in the 'K' series ?
so, why the 'a' in 'Ka8',
is it, plane 8 in the K series, revision a ?
Also would that make ASW the W series of
Schleicher planes and ASH the H series ?
--
_Jonathan_
¤»¥«¤»§«¤
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
John Wren
K or Ka = Rudolf Kaiser
W= Gerhard Waibel
Jonathan Gogan wrote in message <36063...@145.227.194.253>...
atp
Unfortunately there is no mention of who is the man behind the "H" of ASH25.
Cheers.
pierre
John Wren a écrit dans le message <6u5eo0$ih2$1...@wbnws01.ne.highway1.com>...
Ian Johnston
: i.e. The K13 is the '13' plane in the 'K' series ?
: so, why the 'a' in 'Ka8',
: is it, plane 8 in the K series, revision a ?
The Ka 7 was the seventh design by Kaiser. Since he was the
only designer Schleicher had at the time, they could make it under that
name. His fifth design, incidentally, was made by Scheibe and was therefore
the SF-27 rather than the Ka 5.
Later on Schleicher added other designers and changed the nomenclature to
reflect this, so the system is now
AS (for Alexander Schleicher) <initial of designer's surname> <serial number
of design> <suffix letter for variants>
Note that it's the Schleicher serial number, not the designer's. The Ka12
motor glider was renamed the ASK14 because the 12th Schleicher product was
the Waibel ASW12.
Designers are Kaiser (ASK13), Waibel (ASW12) and Heide (ASH25).
It is pedantically wrong to call a Ka8 (incidentally almost all Ka8's are
actually Ka8b's) a K8 or a Ka6 a K6 but life is too short to worry about
such things.
Ian "SZD30" J
Sander Holthaus
On Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:29:54 +0100, "Jonathan Gogan" wrote about Alexander Schleicher: Which planes do/did they make?:
> Schleicher pundits..
>
> People refer to the 'K8' and the Ka8
> and so on, e.g. ASK13.
> All of which may be abbreviations of
> the full title;
> K13 = AS K 13
> K8 = AS K 8 a
> i.e. The K13 is the '13' plane in the 'K' series ?
> so, why the 'a' in 'Ka8',
> is it, plane 8 in the K series, revision a ?
>
> Also would that make ASW the W series of
> Schleicher planes and ASH the H series ?
>
ASK --> Designer = "Kaiser"
ASW --> Designer = "Waibel"
ASH --> Designer = "Heide"
So, the factory currently produces the ASK-21, ASW-22, ASK-23, ASW-24, ASH-25
ASH-26, ASW-27. For more info, go to Http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar1850
>
> --
> _Jonathan_
> ¤»¥«¤»§«¤
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>
>
--
Sander Holthaus
Sander Holthaus
Raul Blacksten
That is, the:
Ka-1, Ka-2, Ka-3, Ka-4, Ka-6, Ka-7, Ka-8, Ka-10, ASK-13, ASK-14,
ASK-16, ASK-18, ASK-21, ASK-23
The "Ka" stands for "Kaiser." The "ASK" stands for "Alexander
Schleicher Kaiser."
"ASW" stands for "Alexander Schleicher Waibel."
I suspect that "Ka" was used when Kaiser was the sole designer and when
Waibel came along, they changed the nomenclature to "ASK" or "ASW". It
all depends upon which one, Rudy Kaiser or Gernard Waibel, designed the
glider Then too, there is the series called "ASH. . . ."
Jonathan Gogan wrote:
> Schleicher pundits..
>
> People refer to the 'K8' and the Ka8
> and so on, e.g. ASK13.
> All of which may be abbreviations of
> the full title;
> K13 = AS K 13
> K8 = AS K 8 a
> i.e. The K13 is the '13' plane in the 'K' series ?
> so, why the 'a' in 'Ka8',
> is it, plane 8 in the K series, revision a ?
>
> Also would that make ASW the W series of
> Schleicher planes and ASH the H series ?
>
> --
> _Jonathan_
> ¤»¥«¤»§«¤
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
--
***************************************************************
RAUL BLACKSTEN Wishing you green air!
Vintage Sailplane Association Archivist
ra...@earthlink.net
<http://www.earthlink.net/~raulb>
"It may not be smart or correct, but it's one of the things which make
us what we are" --Red Green, The New Red Green Show
Ruud J. Holswilder
>Try http://www.segelflug.de/vereine/hoerbach/schleich.html
>Unfortunately there is no mention of who is the man behind the "H" of ASH25.
The H stands for Heide.
Ruud Holswilder.
In case of reply via email, remove the NOSPAM in the return address.
Birger Bulukin
It has always been: Ka-6 but K-8. Ka-8 is wrong! See other postings for the
full story.
Birger W. Bulukin
Ian Johnston <engs...@sable.ox.ac.uk> wrote in article
<6u5l5a$a3s$4...@news.ox.ac.uk>...
Ian Johnston
: One small mistake:
: It has always been: Ka-6 but K-8. Ka-8 is wrong! See other postings for the
: full story.
I have never seen a Ka8b placarded as a K8. My "Gliders and Sailplanes of
the World" lists it as a Ka8. Can you give a source for your claim?
Ian
Andreas Maurer
>Try http://www.segelflug.de/vereine/hoerbach/schleich.html
>Unfortunately there is no mention of who is the man behind the "H" of ASH25.
>Cheers.
Martin Heide.
Bye
Andreas
Jean Richard
>
> Rulolf Kaiser designed the Schleicher gliders with the "K" in them.
> That is, the:
> Ka-1, Ka-2, Ka-3, Ka-4, Ka-6, Ka-7, Ka-8, Ka-10, ASK-13, ASK-14,
> ASK-16, ASK-18, ASK-21, ASK-23
>
> The "Ka" stands for "Kaiser." The "ASK" stands for "Alexander
> Schleicher Kaiser."
>
Some Ka-8b have been built in Finland under licence.
And I think a few ASK-13 has also been built under licence after
Alexandre Schleicher stop production. I don't know how many however, nor
if they kept the AS prefix.
J. Richard
SDijkstra
The Ka stands for Kaiser, the designer of the plane. He was the only designer
working for Schleicher at that time. When Waibel started to work there also,
they changed the type-numbering to AS-x.
The first plane Waibel designed was the ASW-12,so Alexander Schleicher
Waibel-12,
Up to the Ka-11 it was done the old way, after that the first Kaiser design in
the new regime was the ASk-13.
ASH is for Heide,another designer.
So, Ka1,Ka2,Ka3,Ka4,Ka6 up to Ka11,
ASw12,ASk13,ASk14,ASw15,ASk17,ASw17,ASk18,ASw19,ASw20,ASk21,ASw22,ASk23,AS
w24,ASh25,ASh26,ASw27.
Robert Danewid
1987" by R Ferriere (Motorbuchverlag) you find that a Ka6 is a Ka6 and a K8 is in
fact a K8B.
When I was 15 years old I spent my first gliding summer more or less in a K8B,
and I still remember the flight manual and C of A etc etc (I have for some stupid
reason always been very careful to have the right name of a glider in my log
book) and that read K8B (or perhaps K8b).
K8B was the production model of the K8.
It seems like the K7 was the first K glider, up till Ka6 it was Ka.
By the way, the book is good reading
Robert Danewid
Ian Johnston skrev:
Birger Bulukin
sometime in the seventies), and frankly wondered why it was not called the
Ka-8. At least in Scandinavia there has never been any other name than K-8
on that plane. And if my memory serves me right, the Schleicher
documentation I have seen through the years used the same name.
Why not ask Gerhard Waibel?
Birger W. Bulukin
LS-6 "BB"
Ian Johnston <engs...@sable.ox.ac.uk> wrote in article
<6u7umm$a3c$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>...
news
Sander Holthaus heeft geschreven in bericht
<906413343.7312....@news.demon.nl>...
>** To reply in e-mail, remove "lebxix." from address **
>
>
>On Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:29:54 +0100, "Jonathan Gogan" wrote about Alexander
Schleicher: Which planes do/did they make?:
>>
>> People refer to the 'K8' and the Ka8
>> and so on, e.g. ASK13.
>> All of which may be abbreviations of
>> the full title;
>> K13 = AS K 13
>> K8 = AS K 8 a
>> i.e. The K13 is the '13' plane in the 'K' series ?
>> so, why the 'a' in 'Ka8',
>> is it, plane 8 in the K series, revision a ?
>>
>> Also would that make ASW the W series of
>> Schleicher planes and ASH the H series ?
>>
>
Ian Johnston
: In "Rhönsegler - Alexander Schleicher´s Segelflugzeuge und Motorsegler 1951 -
: 1987" by R Ferriere (Motorbuchverlag) you find that a Ka6 is a Ka6 and a K8 is in
: fact a K8B.
: > I have never seen a Ka8b placarded as a K8. My "Gliders and Sailplanes of
: > the World" lists it as a Ka8. Can you give a source for your claim?
Just checked in Janes World sailplanes and Motor Gliders. Ka6, Ka7, Ka8. So
it's currently 2-1 against your book.
Ian
Peter Lemmens
Ian Johnston wrote:
> Birger Bulukin (Birger.W...@dnv.com) wrote:
> : One small mistake:
> : It has always been: Ka-6 but K-8. Ka-8 is wrong! See other postings for the
> : full story.
>
> I have never seen a Ka8b placarded as a K8. My "Gliders and Sailplanes of
> the World" lists it as a Ka8. Can you give a source for your claim?
>
> Ian
Sure thing Ian, the flight manual also says Ka8(b)
Peter
Stig Oye
I have a copy of a flight manual (german version) right here in front of me.
The front page looks like this (it is typewritten exactly like this, spaces and all):
- K 8 -
ALEXANDER SCHLEICHER SEGELFLUGZEUGBAU
POPPENHAUSEN/RHÖN
Flug- und Betriebshandbuch
für das Segelflugzeugmuster
" K 8 "
Ausgabe 15.11.1961
My conclusion: The name is K 8 (with a space) not K-8 or Ka8.
Stig
Ian Johnston
: In article <360891D4...@oce.nl>, Peter Lemmens <pl...@oce.nl> says:
: > Sure thing Ian, the flight manual also says Ka8(b)
: I have a copy of a flight manual (german version) right here in front of me.
: The front page looks like this (it is typewritten exactly like this, spaces and all):
: - K 8 -
So it looks as if there are two names out there, both approved or at least
used by Schleicher. My guess is that just as we in the UK call ASH25's
Ash-twenty-fives, so German pilots called the Ka8 a ka-acht, which
was subsequently misinterpreted during a phone call as a K8 (since ka is
the German pronunciation of "K"). Or, of course, it may have happened
exactly the other way round.
Incidentally, it would be interesting to know what the flight manual for
a Ka (or Ka- or K or K-) 8B (or b) says.
Ian
Stig Oye
Actually, the manual I have was issued for a K 8 B.
Section 8 on page 11 says the following:
8. Zugelassene Baureihen
K 8 zugelassen am 27. Mai 1958
K 8 B Ausführung wie K 8, jedoch geänder-
ter Hauptbeschlag und vergrösserte
Querruder. Zugelassen am 12. Mai 59.
My translation:
8. Certified versions
K 8 certified on May 27, 1958
K 8 B Like K 8, but with modified main spar
fitting and enlarged ailerons. Certified
on May 12, 59
Stig
Martin
Extremely interesting thread!
Please continue.
Robert Danewid
Another source: "Die Evolution de Segellfugzeuge" by Hans Zacher and Gunter Brinkman
has a table which it says is the official LBA (German CAA) numbers on glider registered
in Germany on May 26th 1992. This table says K8B and Ka6.
Current standing: 2-2
Robert
Ian Johnston skrev:
> Robert Danewid (robert....@segelflyget.se) wrote:
> : In "Rhönsegler - Alexander Schleicher´s Segelflugzeuge und Motorsegler 1951 -
> : 1987" by R Ferriere (Motorbuchverlag) you find that a Ka6 is a Ka6 and a K8 is in
> : fact a K8B.
>
> : > I have never seen a Ka8b placarded as a K8. My "Gliders and Sailplanes of
> : > the World" lists it as a Ka8. Can you give a source for your claim?
>
Jean Richard
>
> Ian
>
> Another source: "Die Evolution de Segellfugzeuge" by Hans Zacher and Gunter Brinkman
> has a table which it says is the official LBA (German CAA) numbers on glider registered
> in Germany on May 26th 1992. This table says K8B and Ka6.
>
> Current standing: 2-2
In Transports Canada database, you can find that in Canada, there's four
K8b and one Ka8 registrated. This last one have a special homebuilt
airworthyness certificate, but one K8b also have a special flight
permit while other ones have a regular C of A.
I know that at least one of those was built in Finland and not in
Germany (I flown it...).
J. Richard
mil...@tcraft.umd.edu
> In article <360891D4...@oce.nl>, Peter Lemmens <pl...@oce.nl> says:
> >Ian Johnston wrote:
> >> Birger Bulukin (Birger.W...@dnv.com) wrote:
> >> : It has always been: Ka-6 but K-8. Ka-8 is wrong! See other
> << : postings for the
>
> I have a copy of a flight manual (german version) right here in
> front of me. The front page looks like this (it is typewritten
> exactly like this, spaces and all):
>
> - K 8 -
I have a factory sales brochure that speaks to the virtues of the K8B,
"evolved from the K6". And a pamphlet titled, "Operating Instructions
for the Sailplane Schleicher K8 and K8 B" (English of previously
mentioned manual). And a Soaring Mag from January '65 with a
Zacher-measured speed polar for a "K8" (though this may have been
Soaring's doing.).
On the other hand, I recall another factory document with handwritten
entry, "Ka-8" (didn't keep a copy when I sold the ship, was just a
protective cover for the flight manual, I think). So not everyone at
the factory was in agreement on this.
Of course, Ian is right: life is too short.
- Judah
(who once actually lived on "W. Ave. K-8" in Lancaster, California).
Zulufive
In article <6uaa0f$am4$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>, engs...@sable.ox.ac.uk (Ian Johnston)
writes:
>
>Robert Danewid (robert....@segelflyget.se) wrote:
>: In "Rhönsegler - Alexander Schleicher´s Segelflugzeuge und Motorsegler 1951
>-
>: 1987" by R Ferriere (Motorbuchverlag) you find that a Ka6 is a Ka6 and a K8
>is in
>: fact a K8B.
>
>: > I have never seen a Ka8b placarded as a K8. My "Gliders and Sailplanes of
>: > the World" lists it as a Ka8. Can you give a source for your claim?
>
>Just checked in Janes World sailplanes and Motor Gliders. Ka6, Ka7, Ka8. So
>it's currently 2-1 against your book.
>
>Ian
My copy of "The World's Sailplanes II" has K-8B.
Steve Bralla
I've never seen one.
jsha...@my-dejanews.com
the country of origin. According to the LBA (German Airworthiness
Authorities) the correct names for Alexander Schleicher Gliders are as
follows:
Type Cert No. Model Name
203 Ka 2b
L-164 Rhonlerche II (note this is known as the K4)
205 Ka 6
Ka 6/0
Ka 6 B
Ka 6 BR
Ka 6 BR-Pe
Ka 6 C
Ka 6 CR
Ka 6 CR-Pe
Ka 6 E
211 K 7
267 K8
K8B
K8C
267 AS-K 13
684 K 12
ASK 14
All gliders after this are either:
ASK - Designed by Rudolph Kaiser, now deceased
ASW - Designed by Gerhard Waibel
ASH - Designed by Martin Heide
With appropriate model numbers and letters eg ASH 25M.
There are other Schleicher types but I do not have access to the Type
Certificates to confirm ther correct designations
Jonathan
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jsha...@my-dejanews.com
the country of origin. According to the LBA (German Airworthiness
follows:
Type Cert No. Type Name
203 Ka 2b
L-164 Rhonlerche II (note this is known as the K4)
205 Ka 6
Ka 6/0
Ka 6 B
Ka 6 BR
Ka 6 BR-Pe
Ka 6 C
Ka 6 CR
Ka 6 CR-Pe
In article <6uaa0f$am4$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>,
engs...@sable.ox.ac.uk (Ian Johnston) wrote:
> Robert Danewid (robert....@segelflyget.se) wrote:
> : In "Rhönsegler - Alexander Schleicher´s Segelflugzeuge und Motorsegler 1951 -
> : 1987" by R Ferriere (Motorbuchverlag) you find that a Ka6 is a Ka6 and a K8 is in
> : fact a K8B.
>
> : > I have never seen a Ka8b placarded as a K8. My "Gliders and Sailplanes of
> : > the World" lists it as a Ka8. Can you give a source for your claim?
>
> Just checked in Janes World sailplanes and Motor Gliders. Ka6, Ka7, Ka8. So
> it's currently 2-1 against your book.
>
> Ian
>
>
Jonathan Gogan
Martin wrote in message
<6ub5ee$pma$1...@news.Leiden.NL.net>...
>
>Extremely interesting thread!
>Please continue.
>
>
Are you being sarcastic perchance ?
_Jonathan_
¤»¥«¤»§«¤
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Fritz Zaucker
Some guy in a club near Hannover, Germany, had an out-landing with his
glider a few years several hundred miles from his home port. He phoned
home and found some people to get the trailer and pick him up. When they
arrived at his landing site and opened the trailer, it was full of
furniture which another club member had meant to move the next day.
Having driven for quite some hours and not being very amused with the
trailer full of furniture they unloaded them on the field, put the
glider into the trailer and drove home.
Fritz
--
Dr. Fritz Zaucker, Head IT Support Group
Department of Electrical Engineering, Federal Institute of Technology
ETZ J97, Gloriastrasse 35, 8092 Zurich, Switzerland
Tel.: +41-1-632-5241 Fax: +41-1-632-1194 http://www.ee-staff.ethz.ch/~zaucker/
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