Cambridge GPS-NAV Aero Explorer error on log download

[Eric Foertsch]

I have a Cambridge GPS-NAV. I am trying to download a flight log. It looks like the Aero Explorer software is reading it from the GPS-NAV ok, but then a dialog box pops up with an error msg "Error writing flight log to disk."

I was able to download logs earlier this year, but was running on a different PC with Windows 7 (I think). I now am using a machine with Windows 8.1. I did try turning off the Avast antivirus software with no luck.

I was able to download the log via SeeYou but I wanted to download it via the Cambridge software for use as an official flight for badge purposes.

Any ideas on what to try other than finding a PC with an older version of Windows? (Or upgrading my logger?)

[kinsell]

On 07/13/2018 05:46 AM, Eric Foertsch wrote:
> I have a Cambridge GPS-NAV. I am trying to download a flight log. It looks like the Aero Explorer software is reading it from the GPS-NAV ok, but then a dialog box pops up with an error msg "Error writing flight log to disk."
>
> I was able to download logs earlier this year, but was running on a different PC with Windows 7 (I think). I now am using a machine with Windows 8.1. I did try turning off the Avast antivirus software with no luck.
>
> I was able to download the log via SeeYou but I wanted to download it via the Cambridge software for use as an official flight for badge purposes.

If SeeYou works, just use it. No requirement to use Cambridge software.
Check the dates, many old recorders will show a date 18 years in the
past, invalidating the log. Submit to OLC as an easy check for IGC
security being valid.

Get rid of Windows 8.1, it was a disaster. M$ tried to upgrade everyone
to 10. But using obsolete software and hardware with modern OS's leads
to lots of problems. Update to something like an LXNAV Nano, which acts
like a USB memory device and lets you just copy the file out easily.
Trying to use RS-232 devices in this day and age is a waste of time.

-Dave

[gfbwi...@gmail.com]

>
> If SeeYou works, just use it. No requirement to use Cambridge software.
>

> Get rid of Windows 8.1, it was a disaster.

> Update to something like an LXNAV Nano, which acts like a USB memory device
> and lets you just copy the file out easily.
> Trying to use RS-232 devices in this day and age is a waste of time.
>
> -Dave

I wrote the Cambridge Aero Explorer, and I agree with Dave's comments.

If you still want to use the GPS-NAV with CAE, out of a sense of nostalgia, or whatever, the file write errors you are getting could be due to the workspace not being valid. Make sure it references a valid file location.

You can PM me if you wish further support.

Guy Byars

[kinsell]

If you happen to have PowerFlarm, then enabling the igc logging is
another good alternative. This saved me when the RS-232 link from my
CAI 302 into my Tophat computer stopped working at a camp this year.

The GPS-NAV puts out a binary .cai file, which is secure but
proprietary. Has to be converted to .igc with an external program.
Definitely time to move on.

[Dan Marotta]

I was very disappointed to see that I would have to pay a bounty to get
igc logging with my PF Portable.  Thankfully, both my ClearNav II and
ClearNav XC varios generate an igc file and it's much easier to retrieve
than from the PF.

--
Dan, 5J

[Eric Foertsch]

Thanks Guy.

[kinsell]

Yeah I hate that pricing model, you pay for something, then pay again if
you actually want to use it. I had to pay for both igc secure logging
and ENL to use with the motorglider.

PF does give you a non-secure file by default though, which can be used
with their range-checking software. That's nice to show how much better
range the Core gives than a Portable :-)

-Dave

[Eric Foertsch]

Thanks Kinsell for this and prior comment.

I guess I didn't notice (or forgot) that SeeYou produces a .cai file also.

I am assuming thoug that logs from the GPS-NAV would need to be submitted in .cai format. When I look at the flight in both igc and cai format in SeeYou I get a 'Flight integrity: Unknown?'. But when I check the cai file back in Aero Explored it says it is valid.

Thanks again.

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Could be as stupid as......
Corrupted card.....reformat on new PC (32 bit vs. 64 bit can be an issue).
Failed card
Different type of OS (32 bit vs. 64 bit).

Yep, never liked 8.1.
I use mostly XP, some on 10.

[kinsell]

I haven't flown badges or records for many years, so not sure what
they're doing today with a GPS-NAV. Back in the day, you submitted both
the .cai and .igc files. Kinda silly, since the .cai file was the only
one with real security. Anybody could generate an ersatz .igc from .cai.

Try to find the DOS program VALI-CAM.exe as the best test of security.
Maybe Aero Explorer just uses that, or a related .DLL. Likely does.
Guy would know.

Three different ways to have bad files:

1) electronic seal on GPS-NAV could be broken, likely due to dead
battery internally. Or somebody changed the battery w/o keeping the
unit powered up.

2) date could be off.

3) data could be corrupt for other reasons, with bad crc


Good luck.

-Dave

[chip.b...@gmail.com]

IIRC, an IGC file from a Cambridge GPS-NAV is unsecure. You have to use the CAI file. Between that, the lower level of security provided by the original CAI loggers, the date issue, and the reliability problems, I remain to this day a little annoyed at the strong-arm tactics employed when GPS was "introduced" to SSA competition and we were all forced to buy CAI devices.

I love the way everyone thinks you should spend some more of your money to buy another device that does essentially the same thing as your GPS-NAV does. I stopped using mine two years ago not because scorers were refusing to accept CAI files (they were not) but because I bought a PowerFLARM (Portable, which works just fine!) and then, a year later, a ClearNav Vario, both of which produce log files.

I also love the way some think it's unethical for the FLARM folks to charge extra for an ENL or IGC license for their products. The way I see it, they can either spend the extra money to develop those functionalities and charge everyone for them, or just charge those who need/want them on an a la carte basis. You can debate whether the cost for a feature is reasonable but the business model makes sense to me. A big plus is that unlike many upgrades, you don't have to send it back to have the added functionality installed.

Chip Bearden

[JS]

Eric, I no longer own a GPS-NAV, but still keep Aero Explorer Plus on a couple of Win 8.1 64-bit computers.
Win8 was an odd UI but easily fixed with Start8 (looks like Win 7). Compatibility with older programs is better than any other OS I've used including Win 7, 10, OSX and (limited attempt) Ubuntu.
For CAE+, I use compatibility settings for WinXP SP3. I have older programs running in Win95 compatibility.
And Guy, thanks for that software!
Jim

[gfbwi...@gmail.com]

On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 12:50:01 PM UTC-4, chip.b...@gmail.com wrote:

> I remain to this day a little annoyed at the strong-arm tactics employed when GPS was "introduced" to SSA competition and we were all forced to buy CAI devices.

CAI loggers were not a forced requirement. Many pilots used Volksloggers in that era.

[chip.b...@gmail.com]

On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 1:16:17 PM UTC-4, gfbwi...@gmail.com wrote:
> CAI loggers were not a forced requirement. Many pilots used Volksloggers in that era.

You are correct that CAI loggers specifically were not a forced requirement. IIRC, the Omarama WGC was the first occasion of mass use of GPS flight recorders (from CAI) and that was 1995. I located a copy of the SSA Rules for 2000 and cameras were still allowed then. I finally bought my GPS-NAV in 2001 but I'm not sure whether it was because cameras were no longer allowed or if I judged the competition disadvantage of cameras had become too great. I suspect GPS became mandatory that year or for 2002.

Regardless, I found a copy of a Volkslogger user manual online dated 2000 so it appears that logger was in use about the time I felt forced to buy a CAI flight recorder. I knew a few pilots who bought a Volkslogger but the general perception at the time was that if you were serious about contest flying in the U.S., CAI was the way to go. I doubt if either of us could prove/disprove the accuracy of "many pilots" used Volksloggers in "that era" as it would depend on the definitions of those terms. :)

Chip Bearden

[Dan Marotta]

Yeah, I forgot about ENL.  That's another thing my ClearNav products do
for no extra charge.  And I can use the igc files generated by them for
the Flarm range-checking software.

--
Dan, 5J

[kinsell]

You mean it's all just included in the product? That ought to really
piss off Chip. 'Course lots of things seem to piss off Chip.

[Dan Marotta]

As far as I recall, it was all included in the price.  Maybe Evan will
chime in...

--
Dan, 5J

[chip.b...@gmail.com]

On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 4:59:00 PM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
> You mean it's all just included in the product? That ought to really
> piss off Chip. 'Course lots of things seem to piss off Chip.

Not really; it's a short list. So...congratulations! :)

Seriously, I don't have to "like" the way a product is priced. I can complain. But basically we buyers vote with our wallets. I hadn't upgraded my panel in almost 25 years and needed to replace a couple of CAI GPS-NAVs flight recorders so I was willing to pay up for the XC version of the CNv vario, which got me the thermal assistant (extremely important), the IGC-approved logger (very important), and navigation functionality (never used it and would love to have had a delete option). With the PowerFLARM, I have my second flight recorder (also very important). If I were in the market for another instrument and the flight recorder cost extra, I'd have to think about it.

None of this stuff is "free". If the manufacturer incurs costs to add features, we're going to pay for it one way or the other. I'd just rather shift the cost to those for whom it's really important.

Now is a CNv Club version vario (i.e., no thermal assistant or flight recorder) a great deal? Not for me. But for someone on a budget, it might be, especially knowing they can buy a license in the future to add the cool stuff later. If ClearNav wants to "bundle" the license so it's cheaper to buy the XC version now than the Club version with an add-on XC license later, so be it. That's a pricing decision. No one is forced to buy anything. I'm amazed at the profusion of soaring equipment manufacturers who somehow eek out a living selling electronic devices into the tiny soaring marketplace.

I've gone the open source/freeware route with Top Hat for my flight computer so that's my protest against high-cost soaring equipment!

Chip Bearden

[PMSC]

If any of you guys want to send your outdated Cambridge Flight Recorders to the Post Mills Soaring Club, they would be welcome. We use them all the time, and they have excellent local support.

-Rick Sheppe

> On 07/13/2018 07:21 AM, kinsell wrote:
> > Trying to use RS-232 devices in this day and age is a waste of time.
> >

and

[2KA]

For badges and US state records you should just be able to use conv-cam.exe in the .CAI file you download with SeeYou. conv-cam.exe is available on the IGC website at:

https://www.fai.org/igc-documents

(Look for the Cambridge folder under Flight Recorders->FR Manaufacturer's exe files)

For the OLC, ClearNav also has instructions for using Model 10/20/25 on the OLC here:

https://clearnav.net/main/cn-CAI-OLC.html

Don't know if this will work for GPS-NAV though.

Lynn Alley
2KA

[Tim Newport-Peace]

At 20:02 24 July 2018, 2KA wrote:
>For badges and US state records you should just be able to use
conv-cam.exe
>in the .CAI file you download with SeeYou. conv-cam.exe is available on
>the IGC website at:
>
>https://www.fai.org/igc-documents
>
>(Look for the Cambridge folder under Flight Recorders->FR Manaufacturer's
>exe files)

Which will only run on 32-bit systems!

[kinsell]

I believe the models 10, 20, and 25 were all called GPS-NAV devices.

Perhaps the O.P. can update us on his progress. Are the dates good in
the (phoney) IGC file? Is the seal on the GPS-NAV good?

[2KA]

This can easily be resolved by running vDos. See this link:

https://www.vdos.info/download.html

Of course all this is a little bit of bother, but to those on a tight budget it is an alternative to buying a new logger.

L.

[kinsell]

For those on a real tight budget, I've got a few cases of Verichrome Pan
in the basement somewhere, and my club has a couple Replogle's we'd make
somebody a real deal on. We'll throw in a can of hair spray for free.

Really, the IGC enable for PF is $89. The PF of course is pricey, but
what's a life worth? Keeping Win8.1 on a pc so you can run ancient
software has its own costs in time and frustration.

The really nice thing about beating your head against the wall for 25
years is that feeling you get when you stop.

-Dave

[Richard Pfiffner]

PowerFlarms now come with the IGC enabled. If you need a calibration $75

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Windows 8.1!?!?
XP or 10.,,,,

BTW, when in doubt, many DOS commands still work.
;-)

[kinsell]

Someone was claiming 8.1 was the OS of choice when running in really old
compatibility modes. I would think a 32 bit installation of Win7 would
be a good overall choice when running antique software. Better yet, get
rid of the antique software.

[JS]

I've discovered that Win 8.1 Pro, 64-bit but a PITA without Start8, is very good with old stuff. Win 7 was good, 8.1 better, 10 not so good. OSX with Wine works very well for many programs.
Tough to get rid of antiques (an example outside of soaring: Sidekick 99) if nobody has produced a replacement.
Jim

[Steve Leonard]

You mean you guys don't have a Windows 98 Laptop with a real, working serial port and 3.5 inch floppy drive to hook to your Cambridge 10/20/25? WTH is wrong with you? :-) And then a USB 3.5 floppy drive to hook to an XP machine to do the conversion for OLC, then on to Vista or Windows 10 with that USB floppy drive to upload.

Sheesh. Next thing you know, I will be hearing of "wet cell battery replacements". Hee hee.

Steve Leonard
Yep, I have a bunch of Model 20s and 25s. And L-Navs and S-Navs, too.

[Dan Marotta]

I've got an old Dell tower and an official Windows 2000 installation
disk.  Make me an offer!

--
Dan, 5J

[Steve Leonard]

On Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at 11:42:44 AM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I've got an old Dell tower and an official Windows 2000 installation
> disk.  Make me an offer!
>

> Dan, 5J

Nah, they messed it up and started making the serial port useless with 2000. I have an ME machine, and it has the port, but doesn't work. I will stick with the old TI Extenza running W98.

Steve Leonard

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

I have laptops with 98SE, since, it's "more betterer" than just 98.
;-)

I loved XP Pro, I deal with 10.

As field service, I had 95, 98SE, all service packs (most on thumbdrives) but had some stuff on floppies since I ran into some OS's that didn't support USB (like, Windows NT).

[kinsell]

On 07/25/2018 10:27 AM, Steve Leonard wrote:

> Steve Leonard
> Yep, I have a bunch of Model 20s and 25s. And L-Navs and S-Navs, too.
>

And when you whine on RAS about OLC not taking your GPS-NAV files, it's
both sad and a source of amusement at the same time.

If someone tries to use them for badges/records, I suppose they'd have
to find someone who can still handle the calibration.

[Steve Leonard]

Glad I can provide amusement for you, kinsell. I may have a short memory, but I don't recall whining about it on RAS for a while. I am sure you can take the time to find exactly when it was. I think I have discovered the issue I was having, and now have it resolved. Without having to buy something newer that doesn't work as well as the system I currently have.

As far as calibration, I think any lab will tell you it is simple. Just like any other logger, for that matter.

Steve Leonard

[kinsell]

Thanks to search engines, it was a July 2017 posting I was remembering:


Yeah, I know I should "buy a new logger". But, I fly old sailplanes.
:-) Anyone had success uploading a file from a Model 20 and getting a
valid score? I am 0 for 3. The first two, I wrote off to too few
satellites a couple of times during the flight. Didn't have that issue
today, but still a big red V.

I am using the same conversion program I used last year, and it says it
is making a valid file. It worked fine last year, but doesn't now.
Maybe they would like me better if I gave them money? And, please, no
"Use Skylines" comments.

Suggestions welcome.

Steve Leonard






Also came across the 2012 thread where OLC stopped accepting GPS-NAV
files for a while (not sure how long that lasted), and the 2014
discussion when the date problems started showing up. Since you can
record OLC-acceptable files now with a $10 app, it seems to me to be a
bit of false economy to stick with the old stuff. To each his own.

-Dave

[Steve Leonard]

On Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at 2:23:50 PM UTC-5, kinsell wrote:
>
> Thanks to search engines, it was a July 2017 posting I was remembering:
>
>
> Yeah, I know I should "buy a new logger". But, I fly old sailplanes.
> :-) Anyone had success uploading a file from a Model 20 and getting a
> valid score? I am 0 for 3. The first two, I wrote off to too few
> satellites a couple of times during the flight. Didn't have that issue
> today, but still a big red V.
>
> I am using the same conversion program I used last year, and it says it
> is making a valid file. It worked fine last year, but doesn't now.
> Maybe they would like me better if I gave them money? And, please, no
> "Use Skylines" comments.
>
> Suggestions welcome.
>
> Steve Leonard
>
>
> Also came across the 2012 thread where OLC stopped accepting GPS-NAV
> files for a while (not sure how long that lasted), and the 2014
> discussion when the date problems started showing up. Since you can
> record OLC-acceptable files now with a $10 app, it seems to me to be a
> bit of false economy to stick with the old stuff. To each his own.
>
> -Dave

Knew you could do it. :-)

As for "false economy", the phone I have won't run the $10 App, so I would need a different phone. It will also have a more expensive monthly phone plan, too. Keep working on the "false economy" argument if you like... Also, the phone won't interface with my L-Nav, so I still need to keep my "old junk" working to get what I really want, which is integrated variometer and glide computer in the cockpit. OLC is neat and great fun. Especially when something like this happens.

https://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-3.0/gliding/daily.html?st=olcp&rt=olc&df=2017-07-22&sp=2017&c=C0&sc=

There are plenty of cool things to see in the sky. We all need to get out and see more of them.

Steve Leonard

[kinsell]

On 07/25/2018 09:37 AM, JS wrote:

> Tough to get rid of antiques (an example outside of soaring: Sidekick 99) if nobody has produced a replacement.
> Jim
>

I was keeping a couple XP systems around for a different program,
outside of soaring. Then one day one of the free anti-virus programs
loaded an update that destroyed the systems. Assumed at the time it was
M$ pushing a poison pill, but found out later it was AVG or Avast, can't
remember which.

-Dave