helicopter towing
David Campbell
act or silly? Any USA issues about "towing aircraft"?
Bruce Hoult
in...@milehighgliding.com (David Campbell) wrote:
> Who knows when and where and by whom it has been done? Great airshow
> act or silly? Any USA issues about "towing aircraft"?
It was done at the opening of the '95 World Champs in NZ. A Hughes 500
towed an ASW-20 by the belly hook. At a couple of thousand feet the
helicopter started to slow down until the glider stalled and hung upside
down under the chopper. The glider then released and did an aerobatic
routine. One of the pilots was Bruce Drake. I've forgotten who the
other was.
-- Bruce
David Russell
"David Campbell" <in...@milehighgliding.com> wrote in message
news:7885068c.03031...@posting.google.com...
> Who knows when and where and by whom it has been done? Great airshow
> act or silly? Any USA issues about "towing aircraft"?
Let me know when you try this. I'll take a day off of work to watch!
BTIZ
perfectly stalled.. and then to do an acro routine.. we like acro routines
(normal aero tow) to start about 4000AGL.. gives a nice 12 to 15 minute
show..
I don't think CFR 61.69 specifies any thing for towing with.. other than
"Aircraft" and by definition.. that could be Airplane, glider, balloon, or
.....
TZ
"Bruce Hoult" <br...@hoult.org> wrote in message
news:bruce-2490F5....@copper.ipg.tsnz.net...
Bob Kuykendall
> Who knows when
1963
> and where
Argentina
> and by whom
Dick Schreder
Bob K.
David Russell
"David Campbell" <in...@milehighgliding.com> wrote in message
news:7885068c.03031...@posting.google.com...
> act or silly? Any USA issues about "towing aircraft"?
from http://www.silentwingsairshows.com/hires.html
ABOUT THE "OT-TOW"
Roger Buis in Otto the Airshow Helicopter, and Bob Carlton of Silent Wings
Airshows in his Salto sailplane, have made aviation history by performing
the first helicopter glider tow in the US. Roger begins the tow by hovering
in for the rope hookup. He then begins the tow facing sideways! After
reaching his maximum side traverse speed, he rotates the nose forward and
accelerates to climb speed. Bob and Roger will be performing the "Ot-Tow" at
selected airshows around the US and Canada this summer.
David Russell
"David Campbell" <in...@milehighgliding.com> wrote in message
news:7885068c.03031...@posting.google.com...
> act or silly? Any USA issues about "towing aircraft"?
Also see:
http://www.airshows.org/magazine/back-issues/2Q2002/Fly%20Bys.pdf
it speaks of practice done at a soaring site in alabama.
might be a good lead
dave r
Judy Ruprecht
>
>'David Campbell' wrote in message
>news:7885068c.03031...@posting.google.com...
>> ... Any USA issues about 'towing aircraft'?
As others have pointed out, applicable US FARs refer
to towing 'aircraft,' leaving the option open. Still,
unless a waiver has been granted, one can but wonder
how your friendly local helicopter pilot would comply
with the experience and training requirements of US
FAR 61.59, which are incorporated by reference in 91.309.
And in the 'for what it's worth' category, the late
Ralph Barnaby's January, 1930 drop from a dirigible
proved that a glider could be used to tender a crewmember
to the ground in order to moor the - er - mother ship.
Don't know whether being 'dropped' constitutes being
'towed,' but in any event, Barnaby's flight took place
before there was an FAR Part 61 or for that matter
an FAA. (According to the history chapter Barnaby and
Vic Saudek wrote as part of The American Soaring Handbook
series, FAA's predecessor, the 'Civil Aviation Authority,'
didn't start exerting control over gliders until about
1932.)
Judy
Bruce Hoult
"BTIZ" <bnosp...@lvcm.delete.com> wrote:
> I think I'd want more than a couple thousand feet to be hanging upside down
> perfectly stalled.. and then to do an acro routine.. we like acro routines
> (normal aero tow) to start about 4000AGL.. gives a nice 12 to 15 minute
> show..
I don't know the exact height, but the glider aerobatics was no more
than a couple of minutes.
I heard that in a practice flight the glider stayed on longer than the
helicopter pilot expected and he radioed to see what was going on.
Seems the glider pilot was having trouble reaching the release. And the
chopper was losing height...
The owner of the helicopter (who I seem to recall was actually flying
the glider in the airshow) also offered to make himself available to do
a helicopter aerotow for anyone for whom the expense was a better option
than possibly having to wait for a trailer retrieve that would last into
the next day. Helicopters have far better initial acceleration than a
Pawnee (they shift a *lot* of air), and they can hover over anything
(water...) to take up slack, so he figured that if a flat spot was big
enough to land a glider in it would always be big enough to helicopter
aerotow out of as well...
-- Bruce
Adam Zieba
I witnessed a helicopter SM-1 towing three gliders Mucha 100.
ta...@lpthe.jussieu.fr
: At 05:24 14 March 2003, David Russell wrote:
:>
:>'David Campbell' wrote in message
:>news:7885068c.03031...@posting.google.com...
:>> ... Any USA issues about 'towing aircraft'?
: As others have pointed out, applicable US FARs refer
: to towing 'aircraft,' leaving the option open. Still,
: unless a waiver has been granted, one can but wonder
: how your friendly local helicopter pilot would comply
: with the experience and training requirements of US
: FAR 61.59, which are incorporated by reference in 91.309.
I remember once in Montpellier (France) a glider crashed on
the Pic St Loup (many years ago). They had the bright idea to
rescue it with an helicopter. Result one of the wing got into
the rotor of the helicopter and the helicopter crashed also.
Fortunately there were no casualties.
--
Michel TALON
Marc Ramsey
<ta...@lpthe.jussieu.fr> wrote...
> I remember once in Montpellier (France) a glider crashed on
> the Pic St Loup (many years ago). They had the bright idea to
> rescue it with an helicopter. Result one of the wing got into
> the rotor of the helicopter and the helicopter crashed also.
> Fortunately there were no casualties.
Some pictures of a helicopter retrieve from two weeks ago:
http://williamssoaring.com/stories_main.htm
Most of the pictures are of a practice lift, before the actual
retrieve took place. Note use of long cables...
Marc
Markus Feyerabend
>be hanging upside down>perfectly stalled.. and then to do an acro routine..
>we like acro routines>(normal aero tow) to start about 4000AGL.. gives a
15 minutes acro from 4000ft/AGL, would you?!We start at 4000ft/AGL and end 4 minutes later in 700ft/AGL,
that“s roughly 800ft/min!!!Regards,Markus
Ian Strachan
In addition to those also described on this thread:
>> Who knows when
9 August 1958
>> and where
Lee-on-Solent Naval Air Station, UK
(during a public air show)
>> and by whom
Humphry Dimock
Glider: Slingsby T-21
Tow pilot: John Sproule
Towplane: Whirlwind helicopter (Westland-built S-55)
Dimock and Sproule were both Lieutenant Commanders in the Royal Navy.
John Sproule, amongst other things, I think flew 37 hours on the ridge
at Dunstable in 1938 for a UK two-seat duration record.
I remember Humphry Dimock winning a day in a UK Nationals. He was seen
by all of the rest of us to be flying very fast between what were rather
weak thermals. When we asked him why, it appeared that he had his
electric vario on a 2:1 setting (included for increased sensitivity) and
thought that the thermals were twice as strong as they really were!
In the S&G article, Dimock also notes that Peter Scott (an ex UK
National Champion and ex-Chairman of the BGA) had earlier seen a
helicopter two in Poland where the glider was "dangled on the tow rope"
before releasing.
Source: Sailplane and Gliding, October 1958 edition page 285
--
Ian Strachan
Mike B
given the bill for a helicopter aerotow!!
Mike
On 13 Mar 2003 18:23:07 -0800, in...@milehighgliding.com (David
Pete Smith
still flies, although it is rarey towed, usually winched
- maybe we scared it!.
BTIZ
weekend in April.. we'll time it together.. ohh... you have a .de account...
glider used is an SZD-59A
TIZ
"Markus Feyerabend" <REMOVE_TO_RE...@web.de> wrote in message
news:b4s9ti$22pd9u$1...@ID-49798.news.dfncis.de...
BTIZ
retrieved off a "dry" or not so dry lake in northern NV a few years ago.
TIZ
"Marc Ramsey" <ma...@ranlog.com> wrote in message
news:7phca.808$JI7...@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
Greg Arnold
"Marc Ramsey" <ma...@ranlog.com> wrote in message
news:7phca.808$JI7...@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
> Some pictures of a helicopter retrieve from two weeks ago:
Marc Ramsey
> Any idea what that retrieve cost?
The owner of the helicopter refused to accept payment,
it's a pretty close-knit community out there in Williams...
BTIZ
> "Greg Arnold" <Soa...@REMOVEcox.net> wrote:
> > Any idea what that retrieve cost?
>
> The owner of the helicopter refused to accept payment,
> it's a pretty close-knit community out there in Williams...
>
>
Williams is a Great place... great people.. and I'm sure the helo owner will
use the pictures to show (advertise) the capability or service of his
machine..
Marc.. say hi to Noelle and Rex for me..
Simon Carr
Ian Strachan wrote
> In the S&G article, Dimock also notes that Peter Scott (an ex UK
> National Champion and ex-Chairman of the BGA) had earlier seen a
> helicopter two in Poland where the glider was "dangled on the tow rope"
> before releasing.
>
> Source: Sailplane and Gliding, October 1958 edition page 285
That was probably Alan Yates.
Simon Carr
BTIZ
of the glider..
as in the case of the retrieve from a muddy field at Williams Ca
a previous thread mentioned the helicopter was starting to descend with the
glider still attached...
as the Tow, is underway.. the helo only needs to tug.. the pulling weight of
the glider.. it is making it's own lift.. but as the helo slows to "suspend"
the glider for the air show acro routine, as the glider gently stalls and
swings inverted below the helo, now the helo must support the entire weight,
600-800# for a single seat? or more?
I'd want to be sure I had an emergency release available, and that the CG
hook would not inadvertently back release under pressure..
TZ
"David Campbell" <in...@milehighgliding.com> wrote in message
news:7885068c.03031...@posting.google.com...
bambuko
> act or silly? Any USA issues about "towing aircraft"?
you can see some photos of Bocian being aerotowed by helicopter during
1958 World Championship in Leszno on:
http://www.gorpol.krakow.pl/lotnictwo/szybowce/bw01/szyb03.html
rgrds Chris
Janusz Kesik
The show included also hanging the glider under the hovering helicopter.
Janusz.