Misuse of 123.3
Don Peterson
On the way back from an aviation event this last weekend, a couple of my
buddies chose to communicate inter-plane on 123.3 After no more that the
briefest of words to assist in their forming up after takeoff, a couple
of glider pilots came on the air and rudely told my friends to vacate the
frequency immediately, as they were clutter "their" school frequency.
My friends, not being averse to defending themselves from an unjustified
attack, pointed out that their organization had paid $100 to the FCC and
had 123.3 specifically permitted to them for use in their school
activities.
The glider pilots ignored this reasonable assertion of their rights, and
began using the "f" word on the air and threatening all sorts of ugly
things if they didn't get off the "glider" frequency immediately.
My friends just laughed and flew on.
My note is to point out to all you glider types that 123.3 is NOT limited
to gliders. It, along with 123.5, is one of the frequencies available
for any school or training operation to be assigned for their operation.
To legally use it, one is supposed to pay for and be permitted its use.
I doubt many glider operations have done so.
No harm no foul, but let's not be greedy about that which we do not truly
own.
A friend in the skies....
Mark A. Matthews
> On the way back from an aviation event this last weekend, a couple of my
> buddies chose to communicate inter-plane on 123.3 After no more that the
> briefest of words to assist in their forming up after takeoff, a couple
> of glider pilots came on the air and rudely told my friends to vacate the
> frequency immediately, as they were clutter "their" school frequency.
Let's see. Just so we know what we are, a definition:
Sec. 87.5 Definitions.
[...]
Aircraft station. A mobile station in the aeronautical mobile
service other than a survival craft station, located on board an
aircraft.
Subpart F--Aircraft Stations
Sec. 87.185 Scope of service.
(a) Aircraft stations must limit their communications to the
necessities of safe, efficient, and economic operation of aircraft and
the protection of life and property in the air, except as otherwise
specifically provided in this part. Contact with an aeronautical land
station must only be attempted when the aircraft is within the serivce
area of the land station. however, aircraft stations may transmit
advisory information on air traffic control, unicom or aeronautical
multicom frequencies for the benefit and use of other stations
monitoring these frequencies in accordance with FAA recommended traffic
advisory practices.
Sec. 87.187 Frequencies.
(a) Frequencies used for air-ground Communications are listed in
subpart E. Aircraft stations may use frequencies assigned to Government
or non-Government aeronautical stations or radionavigation land stations
if the communications are within the aeronautical or radionavigation
land station scope of service.
[...]
(j) The frequency 122.750 MHz is authoried for use by private fixed
wing aircraft for air-air communications. The frequency 123.025 MHz is
authorized for use by helicopters for air-air Communications.
Those are the only general-purpose air-to-air assignments allowed. By the
FCC rules, if it's not permitted by regulation, it's implicitly
prohibited.
Now, your buddies "school" license is allocated to 123.3 MHz. To be
assigned that frequency, it would have to be an "Aviation Support
Station". Let's see what those are:
Sec. 87.5 Definitions.
[...]
Aviation support station. An aeronautical station used to coordinate
aviation services with aircraft and to communicate with aircraft engaged
in unique or specialized activities. (See subpart K)
Subpart K--Aviation Support Stations
Sec. 87.319 Scope of service.
Aviation support stations are used for the following types of operations:
(a) Pilot training;
(b) Coordination of soaring activities between gliders, tow aircraft
and land stations;
(c) Coordination of activities between free balloons or lighter-
than-air aircraft and ground stations;
(d) Coordination between aircraft and aviation service organizations
located on an airport concerning the safe and efficient portal-to-portal
transit of the aircraft, such as the types of fuel and ground services
available; and
(e) Promotion of safety of life and property.
Sec. 87.323 Frequencies.
(a) 121.500 MHz: Emergency and distress only.
(b) The frequencies 121.950, 123.300 and 123.500 MHz are available
for assignment to aviation support stations used for pilot training,
coordination of lighter-than-air aircraft operations, or coordination of
soaring or free ballooning activities. Applicants for 121.950 MHz must
coordinate their proposal with the appropriate FAA Regional Spectrum
Management Office. A coordination statement must accompany the
application. Applicants for aviation support land stations may request
frequency(ies) based upon their eligibility although the Commission
reserves the right to specify the frequency of assignment. Aviation
support mobile stations will be assigned 123.300 and 123.500 MHz.
However, aviation support mobile stations must operate only on a
noninterference basis to communications between aircraft and aviation
support land stations.
The school Aviation Support License does not cover the aircraft. The
aircraft are regulated by their Aircraft Station Licenses, which is either
a piece of paper, or "by rule" (see 87.18(b)) .
> My friends, not being averse to defending themselves from an unjustified
> attack, pointed out that their organization had paid $100 to the FCC and
> had 123.3 specifically permitted to them for use in their school
> activities.
Since your friends were not in communication with the school, but with
each other, they were in violation of 87.187 and the Radio Police is
coming to take their microphones away.
> The glider pilots ignored this reasonable assertion of their rights, and
> began using the "f" word on the air and threatening all sorts of ugly
> things if they didn't get off the "glider" frequency immediately.
The glider pilots were also in violation of 87.187 by communicating with
your friends and also guilty of impersonating a Radio Cop. The Radio
Police is also going to take their microphones away.
> My note is to point out to all you glider types that 123.3 is NOT limited
> to gliders. It, along with 123.5, is one of the frequencies available
> for any school or training operation to be assigned for their operation.
> To legally use it, one is supposed to pay for and be permitted its use.
> I doubt many glider operations have done so.
I know that many glider operations have done so. I've seen their
respective pieces of paper to prove it.
I will reinforce that the only legal use of 123.3 MHz for your school is
air-ground communications with your school. That is all. Air-to-air
between aircraft (even if they belong to the school) is not part of the
deal.
And yes glider pilots, this applies to you to. The only legal air-to-air
frequency assigned to fixed-wing aircraft is 122.75 MHz. Ain't the feds
funny?
Don Peterson
Matt,
Thanks for a thoughtful approach. I won't debate whether your
interpretations are strictly right or not. You have made a more thorough
study than I care to do. It does point out the important point, though,
doesn't it. The glider guys were behaving poorly when they jumped onto
the two power pilots and rudely told them to leave the freq. Whether
right or wrong, I find that a little deep breathing and quiet tolerance
usually sees an annoying situation past quicker than stirring it up.
Don
Daniel Mockler
Don Peterson wrote:
>
> On the way back from an aviation event this last weekend, a couple of my
> buddies chose to communicate inter-plane on 123.3 After no more that the
> briefest of words to assist in their forming up after takeoff, a couple
> of glider pilots came on the air and rudely told my friends to vacate the
> frequency immediately, as they were clutter "their" school frequency.
>
> attack, pointed out that their organization had paid $100 to the FCC and
> had 123.3 specifically permitted to them for use in their school
> activities.
>
> began using the "f" word on the air and threatening all sorts of ugly
> things if they didn't get off the "glider" frequency immediately.
>
>
> to gliders. It, along with 123.5, is one of the frequencies available
> for any school or training operation to be assigned for their operation.
> To legally use it, one is supposed to pay for and be permitted its use.
> I doubt many glider operations have done so.
>
> own.
>
> A friend in the skies....
Don
I must commend you for this wonderful piece of fiction! Get your facts straight.
Dan Mockler
#182 - Sundance
Daniel Mockler
Following is a reprint of a letter sent out 5/21/97:
Is Don right that for the price of $100.00 one can misuse and abuse a
given frequency? These guys went out of there way to antagonize the
local glider pilots, not the ground station. And went as far as planning
an unannounced high speed low altitude flyby through a high density
training area. i.e. T.S.A. glider port.
As far as his accusation’s are concerned, usually one can find the guilty
party on the backside of a pointed finger. I do not recall the use of
any profanity by either group. The only threat was the request for N
numbers. This seemed to quiet the whole situation, after the power
planes were spotted by a sailplane pilot.
One does not owe another respect!
He has to earn it.
Dan Mockler
#182 - Sundance
>Whether right or wrong, I find that a little deep breathing and quiet tolerance
> usually sees an annoying situation past quicker than stirring it up.
>
> Don
This is some good advice, I hope that you also pass it on to the power pilots involved.
This entire thread has become ridiculous and tiresome. It is also apparent that the
power pilots will not admit to there level of involvement in this incident. That
leaves this thread a waste of time.
Jim Smolen
Mark.A....@tek.com (Mark A. Matthews) wrote:
<<<SNIPPED>>>
>
>I know that many glider operations have done so. I've seen their
>respective pieces of paper to prove it.
>
>I will reinforce that the only legal use of 123.3 MHz for your school is
>air-ground communications with your school. That is all. Air-to-air
>between aircraft (even if they belong to the school) is not part of the
>deal.
>
>And yes glider pilots, this applies to you to. The only legal air-to-air
>frequency assigned to fixed-wing aircraft is 122.75 MHz. Ain't the feds
>funny?
Great job, Mark!
Since I have ties with both the glider and aerobatic communities and
have experienced radio congestion from both ends, I contacted the FCC
a few months ago on this issue. I found out that the situation was
essentially as you described. Glider pilots, flight schools, and
aviation support services all have rights to these frequencies and we
all gotta get along.
Jim
David H. Noyes
> Subpart K--Aviation Support Stations
> Sec. 87.319 Scope of service.
> (b) Coordination of soaring activities between gliders, tow aircraft
> and land stations; ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Probably the "between gliders" is what is interpreted as allowing the use of
123.3 among glider pilots.
Tony Nicol
In article <dnoyes.41...@pop.service.ohio-state.edu>, "David H.
Noyes" <dno...@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> writes
>
>> Sec. 87.319 Scope of service.
>
>
>Probably the "between gliders" is what is interpreted as allowing the use of
>123.3 among glider pilots.
>
aircraft and gliders and land stations - NOT between gliders and
gliders.
JMHO
--
Tony Nicol (a...@monkegie.demon.co.uk)
Also on the web at www.monkegie.demon.co.uk
Tony Nicol
In article <3383CA...@flash.net>, Don Peterson <auto...@flash.net>
writes
>Mark A. Matthews wrote:
(snip horrendously long and totally unnecessary re-post of Mark's ENTIRE
article)
>
>Matt,
(Who?)
>
>Thanks for a thoughtful approach.
> It does point out the important point, though,
>doesn't it. The glider guys were behaving poorly when they jumped onto
>the two power pilots and rudely told them to leave the freq. Whether
>right or wrong, I find that a little deep breathing and quiet tolerance
>usually sees an annoying situation past quicker than stirring it up.
>
>Don
Just as you were behaving poorly by making me download Matt's article
twice. Well, OK, maybe not. Perhaps it was just thoughtlessness on your
part. (See what deep breathing can do!)
PS: I've just told my wife it is your fault that the phone bill is so
high, Don, so keep your head down!
Steve Peltz
In article <Mark.A.Matthews-...@grue.vnd.tek.com>,
Mark A. Matthews <Mark.A....@tek.com> wrote:
>And yes glider pilots, this applies to you to. The only legal air-to-air
>frequency assigned to fixed-wing aircraft is 122.75 MHz. Ain't the feds
>funny?
Thanks for some useful information.
So what are we supposed to do when ATC asks us to relay to another
aircraft that is, e.g., too low to receive? Do we say - "sorry, FCC
says that is an illegal use of this frequency"? Or do we simply transmit
advisories on the frequency : "advising any aircraft with the call letters
N1234P that ATC wants you to climb and maintain 5000 feet". Of course,
the other aircraft responds with "advising any aircraft that is relaying
for ATC that N1234P is climbing to maintain 5000 feet".
So when some aircraft calls on the multicom frequency and asks for traffic
advisories, when we answer (from the air), we're not really transmitting
air-to-air, we're just transmitting advisories in the blind? Maybe when I
want to tell the towplane that I've changed my mind and want to go to 3K
instead of 2K, I'll just transmit a traffic advisory to that effect.
I guess what we really need are radios that monitor three frequencies,
and can flip-flop easily to any of the three: CTAF, 123.3, 122.75 for
example. Then we can just transmit on whichever is the legal frequency
without worrying that the other person is monitoring the "wrong" channel.
Jeffrey M. Matthews
In article <orYTqFAM...@demon.co.uk>,
Tony Nicol <a...@monkegie.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <dnoyes.41...@pop.service.ohio-state.edu>, "David H.
>Noyes" <dno...@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> writes
>>In article <Mark.A.Matthews-...@grue.vnd.tek.com>
>>Mark.A....@tek.com (Mark A. Matthews) writes:
>>
>>> Subpart K--Aviation Support Stations
>>
>>> Sec. 87.319 Scope of service.
>>
>>> (b) Coordination of soaring activities between gliders, tow aircraft
>>> and land stations; ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>Probably the "between gliders" is what is interpreted as allowing the use of
>>123.3 among glider pilots.
>>
>Which implies that it is allocated for use between gliders and tow
>aircraft and gliders and land stations - NOT between gliders and
>gliders.
>
>JMHO
I don't agree. If glider-glider communication is not covered, then it seems
glider-towplane communication would also be against the regulation unless a
land station is included in the conversation. Nothing in the reg says that
you must have one and only one of each.
I have also heard pilots loudly complaining about those #$%^& glider pilots
on the "Company Frequency". so we don't have a monopoly on the ignorance.
In years gone by, when I used the radio more, I frequently heard of groups
appropriating "vacant" frequencies, and referring to them as the company
frequency, so as to make tracing their frequency hopping more difficult.
Pilots aware of that practice, but whose organization had been officially
allowed the use of a frequency, just assumed that anyone else on it must
be a bootlegger.
Jeff Matthews
Don Peterson
>>I don't agree. If glider-glider communication is not covered, then it seems glider-towplane communication would also be against the regulation
unless a land station is included in the conversation. Nothing in the
reg says that you must have one and only one of each.<<
Jeff,
I have no problem with your interpretation, and rather think that the
real-world practice seems to accept aircraft to aircraft communication on
these assigned, and permitted, frequencies. The same interpretation
would allow power aircraft to use the frequency for interplane
conversation, presumably pertinant to school or organizational business.
Interestingly enough, in the middle of the event which I originally
related, a corporate aircraft could be heard having a relatively
lengthy conversation with some sort of ground-based station down near
Houston. I found it amusing that the ill-mannered glider pilots did not
jump all over them, and focused solely on the two nearby power pilots -
who had spoken only enough to formate up for their flight home.
Oh well. This has been an informative thread. Teaching me something new
about the radio regs, and confirming my impression of the persons in a
certain local glider club. And now, we turn your station back to
reality.
Don