Glider Rides and Vomit Prevention
Bob Z
>I'd like to get some suggestions that work to prevent vomiting during rides.
>
>1. What should you say before the flight to get the rider in the right mind
>set?
>i.e. How many details should you talk about as to where the sick bag is, where
>they should look,....?
>2. Once they feel ill, is landing the only option?
>3. What should the rider look at(horizon, instrument panel, .... to stop the
>advance of ill feelings?
>
>It seems that any form of thermaling is a good way to get another look at their
> lunch. I've been giving rides for the past 14 years but recently I've smelled
>way too much vomit - please help!
>
>Thanks,
>Jamie
Well.. I can't say for gliders (not rated yet), but for doing acro in
power-planes, I keep it simple. I just recite this simple rule:
"You throw it up, you clean it up."
Works every time. :)
As to your questions, here's my $0.02:
1. I think if they're predisposed to that, and they tell you about
it, that's a strong warning to take it easy. Brief them on the bag,
and tell them not to be afraid to use it.
2. My experience has been once the feeling comes on, it usually
doesnt go away until they're on solid ground. Time to head for the
runway. When they start feeling quesy I do my best to try to distract
them by talking about things that interest them, too.
3. You should always have them look at the horizon. It's a fixed
point of reference. The insrument panel doesn't give any visual cues,
but you still get the inner ear info. Input from just the inner ear =
trouble for queasy folks. It's the same on a boat - keep them staring
at the horizon. Sticking them being below deck where there aren't
fixed visual cues is a quick way to make them sicker.
I occasionally ask if they're ok, too. I've actually only had one
passenger that *almost* puked. I kept her looking at the horizon and
told her the airport was only 5 minutes away (they like that.. 'I can
make it for five minutes'), even though it was more like 15 mins. She
made it, but was awfully pale & sweaty when we got down (and I didn't
even do any acro.. it was all nice, smooth, straight & level flying).
Hope that helps a little.
John H. Campbell
takes some getting used to. It is always worse for an inactive rider than a
pilot (no ability to anticipate the next lurch, no mental goals/duties). A
20-30 min exposure is plenty for a first time out. Novice student pilots
reliably "get over" bouts of nausea the more flights they have logged and
the more familiarity, control, and confidence they have. Handing control to
them when they express discomfort (suggest straight & level at moderately
high speed, though) can clear things up remarkably.
1. Try to screen the "lookers" from the "adventurers". It's about a 50-50%
population mix. The first, who want the "smooth, peaceful, motorless flight
experience" should be scheduled in the early AM when turbulence won't be
distracting. Why tempt fate?
2. Most important is where they should look: Far away at the beautiful
scenery (that is not bouncing and moving). Not at those fascinating
instruments (I often say "ignore these, I don't look at them most of the
time either...we can look at them later but if you don't look at the
mountains and the clouds while we're up you'll lose your chance..."). Not
in their lap. Not at the wingtip or the ground.
3. Beware the folks who want to look through the viewfinder of their camera
or camcorder the whole flight. Bad idea!
4. Keep plenty of fresh air coming in.
5. Belt them in nice and tight, so they feel "part of the machine".
Encourage them to go with the flow, enjoy leaning into turns just like
riding a bicycle...
6. Most riders are in it for the scenic views and for being able to tell
their friends they "survived" the experience of being in an "airplane with
no engine". A lot get their money's worth at the experience of liftoff or
release anyway. Soaring demos, mini flight lessons (if CFI), acro
experiences (if applicable) are gravy. The first should be snuck in if at
all possible because it's the big "secret" no one knows to ask about. The
latter two should be done only if the rider requests it--not everyone likes
these items.
7. Don't get carried away with endless circling. If you can demonstrate
the magic of altitude gain with a half-dozen turns, that's enough.
FAI-worthy prowess is unecessary.
8. You must carry a sic-sac. They must know its location. The trick is to
tip them off to it without suggesting they get sick. I try to make a joke
of it and lean on airline practice as a familiar context. Something like
"...just like in an airliner, we have seatbelts and bunch of dials we mostly
don't need, and just like in an airliner we have these little motion
sickness bags we hardly ever need. Hahaha".
Keep a watch for those sweating necks and listen for that uneasy quiet...
They guy I'll always remember is the one who kept saying "more, more,
faster, higher, this is terrific" and with hardly a pause blew chunks across
the panel.
--JHC
John M. Morgan
sends a
> mild electric pulse to the nerve on the underside of the wrist that is
> reported to block the nausia response associated with morning sickness,
> chemotherapy, as well as motion sickness. I have not used one but I have
seen
> one and heard a first hand account of it's effectiveness when used by a
> passenger in the backseat of a high performance glider on a long
cross-country
> thermal flight. The cost is around $100 and it works for approx. 150
hours of
> use. The advertisements say that recreational air combat operations are
using
> them very successfully. I think it's worth a try for some types of
passenger
> and new student flights. I think there is a website for them called
Aeromedics
> of something like that. Anyone else with experience with these devices?
>
> Matt Michael CFIG
> Flight Training Adventure Camps
> Mile High Gliding
I've mentioned the ReliefBand to the NG before. I'm not affiliated to them
in any way . . . just bought two of them. One for the wife who has
Parkinson's disease and was experiencing nausea with some of her medication.
The Band worked wonders for this. Bought the other one for the passenger
seat in my Stemme. Have only used it on one passenger so far and only when
symptoms started to appear. I went wings level and he put the think on. A
few minutes later and he was again enjoying the flight. Required equipment
for passengers.
--
John "Bumper" Morgan <bump...@castles.com> S10-VT "ZZ"
To REPLY please remove aviation part of address.
"Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines."
JShore3021
WBY0NDER
seems like it matters but I think after all it doesn't. If the air is smooth
and you avoid thermalling turns and aerobatics people rarely get sick; never in
my experience. I know that it is very tempting to show the amazing wonder of
climbing in a thermal but if they get sick (and many will) it just turns them
off to the entire experience. If it's rough, if it's an aerobatic ride, or if
they insist on thermalling then a clear and direct briefing about the effects
and damage control of motion sickness is in order. That said, I will add that
I've noticed some reduction of motion sickness by reducing the movement of the
head and using the eyes to look around. I tell passengers if they begin to
feel sick (or as is usually the case, I notice them getting pale and quiet) to
fix their head firmly against the head rest and use their eyes only to look
around. By this time I've began a rapid, wings level descent to the pattern.
Robert W. Cunningham
MECLIZINE, MECLIZINE, MECLIZINE, MECLIZINE, MECLIZINE, MECLIZINE, MECLIZINE, MECLIZINE, MECLIZINE, MECLIZINE, MECLIZINE, MECLIZINE, MECLIZINE, MECLIZINE, MECLIZINE, MECLIZINE, MECLIZINE, MECLIZINE, MECLIZINE, MECLIZINE, MECLIZINE, MECLIZINE, MECLIZINE, MECLIZINE!
And a few more words to explain that one word:
Of all the remedies I've tried over the years for nausea induced by flying or sailing, MECLIZINE is the only one that has worked for me and for everyone I know of who has tried it. Unlike Dramamine and its cousins, MECLIZINE has no undesirable side effects. Also, MECLIZINE acts fast enough (15 to 30 minutes) that it can be taken at the onset of nausea, though it lasts so long (12 hours) that taking it in advance is easier for me (it is hard to take pills while flying a paraglider).
If you buy a brand-name product that contains MECLIZINE, you will be paying far too much. Most pharmacies offer bottles of generic MECLIZINE (for about US$10-20 per hundred pills, 25mg), but they are not kept on the display shelves. Just ask at the counter. Though I haven't checked, it should also be available online.
Sorry for the excess capitalization...
-BobC
Tom West
Medicine here in Austin, TX. This ancient tradition has identified an accupuncture
point to combat nausea. I will now share this wisdom with you, Sky Riders in the
Sun.
Apply pressure, deep and rotating, (in the absence of an inflight accupuncture
treatment needle) to the following point. On the inside center of the forearm,
approximately two inches up from the wrist, is the point. On a smaller person, make
it 1 1/2" up.
Tom West
HP-11
n821z
Peter Wilson
also forgot where I hear it from, it may even have been on this NG.
If any of the students or trial flight passengers are starting to feel
unwell, spin them a line about a rebreathing technique that involves
them pulling their shirt up over their nose and concentrating on the
horizon, tell them its to do with the enriched carbon diaoxide in the
rebreathed air that has an effect on the brains queesiness neurones.
Actually what you are doing is EITHER .... using the power of suggestion
to calm their queesiness OR... if they go over the edge, at least they
fill their shirt and not the cockpit...
I loaughed whe I heard it but it seems to meak good sense to me...
Peter
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Wilson Email: peter.a...@uk.sun.com Audix : x10668
Systems Engineer Tel: +44 (0) 1207 585568 Fax: +44 (0) 1207 585595
Sun Microsystems Inc., Medomsley Road, Consett, Co. Durham, DH8 6TJ, UK
------------------------------------------------------------------------
mdc1
> JShore3021 wrote:
>
> > I'd like to get some suggestions that work to prevent vomiting during rides.
. I've been giving rides for the past 14 years but recently I've smelled
> > way too much vomit - please help!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jamie
Jamie
Suggestions that we use here in York:
1) Don't take first timers up if it is very hazy.
2) Don't go if it is really thermic and bumpy unless you elect to
keep the flight within 25 minutes total, and keep turns shallow,
no more than 20 degrees or so of bank.
3) Don;t go if it is a howling gale, and moderate turbulence.
4) Don't do continuous turns for more than a turn or so
5) Get the pupil on the controls fairly soon after releasing,
and let him/her have control for as much of the flight as possible after
teaching the basics
6) Don't get the pupil to turn their head suddenly to look at some
feature a long way from where they are currently looking.
7) Don;t get them looking at the upper wing in a turn.
8) Don;t take anyone who has consumed alcohol that day.
9) Make sure they are fully briefed on what to expect of the flight
10 Take control if they are making excessive excursions in pitch/bank
We take a lot of first timers up, and no more than 6 occasions in a year
do we need the sick bags ! (They usually miss anyway and get the
seat/parachute/instruments/jacket/jeans/......
Good luck
Mike
Doug Smith
Doug
JShore3021 <jshor...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990925220410...@ng-ft1.aol.com...
> I'd like to get some suggestions that work to prevent vomiting during
rides.
>
> 1. What should you say before the flight to get the rider in the right
mind
> set?
> i.e. How many details should you talk about as to where the sick bag is,
where
> they should look,....?
> 2. Once they feel ill, is landing the only option?
> 3. What should the rider look at(horizon, instrument panel, .... to stop
the
> advance of ill feelings?
>
> It seems that any form of thermaling is a good way to get another look at
their
> lunch. I've been giving rides for the past 14 years but recently I've
Brent Sullivan
you shouldn't learn thermalling technique until you've mastered airspeed control.
You be getting your airspeed predominantly from a variety of other cues (sound,
attitude, buffeting, tightness of the circle you are maintaining, etc.) so that you
can keep your head out of the cockpit--alert for other traffic and forming an image
of what that thermal's structure looks like.
Angelomant wrote:
>
> 3) STARING AT THE INSTRUMENT PANEL - My instructor told me to constantly watch
> my airspeed while thermaling, that this was the only way to keep my airspeed
> constant, and that I should look out only once a 360 (is this right?)
> Angelo Mantas
JohnPegase
(Angelomant) writes:
>3) STARING AT THE INSTRUMENT PANEL - My instructor told me to constantly watch
>my airspeed while thermaling, that this was the only way to keep my airspeed
>constant, and that I should look out only once a 360 (is this right?)
NO This "advice" is lethal!! Unless of course you have misunderstood /
misheard the advice. Anyone sharing a thermal with someone doing this is
likely to be rammed. Look out continually, and glance at the instruments once
every 360 is a lot safer. The easiest way to control airspeed is to check the
attitude of the glider at regular intervals while looking for enemy aircraft
that may come to close to you.
>As several posters have already pointed out, this is a great way to get
airsick!
>What about those patches you put behind behind your ear? Do they work, and do
>they make you drowsey?
>Angelo Mantas
John Wright, 742
JohnPegase
a little bit faster which will make the glider more stable, less susceptible to
turbulence and that "this always cures the problem, people can't be sick when
we fly fast". As they have believed everything else I've told them so far,
they tend to believe me when I then say it seems to stop anyone feeling a bit
off. Next I tell them how long it will take to get down (based on 4 kts down)
because "we seem to be coming down a bit now" As I'm usually at 70 or 80 kts
with a little airbrake out as well, I usually try to achieve 6 or 8 down. So
they think they have to hold on for say 4 mins, and we land after 2 - 2.5 mins,
about half what they expect. Then when on the ground get the canopy open
quickly!
It has worked well for the last 8 years until a month ago when a student threw
up at 200-300' on approach, having held on well from about 1600' for 2 mins.
john wright, 742
John Wright, 742
John Cochrane
Just being up in the air, the swish of the wind, the beautiful view, and the launch and landing are plenty exiting for almost all passengers on the first flight. If you leave them wanting more, they'll come back. If you leave them woozy and worried about getting sick, they'll say "that was great, but I can't handle it." If they actually puke, they'll never come back.
John Cochrane
William Thar G8
Taken about 45 minutes before take-off and about 1-2 hours thereafter,
ginger tablets work wonders for many novice passengers. They can be
purchased at most Nutrition/Vitamin outlets. My first experience with them
was during a reef dive. The dive master passed out the ginger tablets on a
rough day out with excellent results for most divers. I have used them
successfully with my own 2-32 passengers.
Bill G8
Doug Smith <doug...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:pVNH3.4557$ZK5....@ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net...
Johannes Lemburg
>
> Don't eat tuna fish sandwiches before the flight.
Don´t go to Mc D. or BK before ;-)
Lemmi
Tony Cavanna
The following is advice given to me and some of my own thoughts on this.
1) Apart from telling the passenger what the controls and instruments do -
emphasise that If they feel uncomfortable not to be afraid to speak up. You
can come back to the strip quickly using your air brakes to loose height
rapidly to get you to your circuit joining area for a normal circuit.
2) Whilst on tow check that the passenger is ok. If not then release at a
safe height for a normal circuit and landing.
3) Fly smoothly. Avoid a steep angle of bank when thermalling, 30 degrees
seems quite steep for most passengers.
4) Don't make the flight too long. 20-30 minutes is quite sufficient to for
showing the passenger how we gain altitude in thermals, demonstrating
the effects of the controls and letting them have a go (assuming you are
rated
to do this).
5) Direct the passenger's head out of the cockpit. Get the passenger
involved looking for other aircraft, point out landmarks and how far away
they
are if you know, the local town, the highway they may have used to get to
your gliding site, the clouds, what a great sunny day it is. If the
passenger goes quiet on you and seems to be looking inside then they may not
be feeling good, check.
6) If your passenger is feeling uncomfortable or ill then returning as soon
as possible is the only option. Have some consideration for your passenger
and for whoever is going to use the aircraft next.
7) I haven't had anyone vomit on me, so to speak, in the time I've been
giving trial instructional flights.
Regards, Tony Cavanna.
JShore3021 wrote in message
<19990925220410...@ng-ft1.aol.com>...
Brett Jaffee
flown in a sailplane once, and I almost got sick. :)
I took a lesson (thanks Bill) a while back on a very hot day in California
City. I didn't start feeling quesy until we started thermaling. I had a
bottle of cold water with me, which helped keep me away from the edge of
actually barfing. Don't know about most other people, but when I'm feeling
sick, cool=better. Anyway, we managed to make it back to the airport with the
front cockpit in the same condition that I found it.
For the moment, I'm sticking to the r/c sailplanes, but if/when I go for full
scale soaring again...any suggestions? I'm sure I can get used to the motion
after a few flights, but any other suggestions would help. Are there any
motion sickness drugs that won't interfere with a flying lesson, at least on
the very first flight?
In article <19990925220410...@ng-ft1.aol.com>, jshor...@aol.com
(JShore3021) wrote:
>I'd like to get some suggestions that work to prevent vomiting during rides.
>
>1. What should you say before the flight to get the rider in the right mind
>set?
>i.e. How many details should you talk about as to where the sick bag is, where
>they should look,....?
>2. Once they feel ill, is landing the only option?
>3. What should the rider look at(horizon, instrument panel, .... to stop the
>advance of ill feelings?
>
>It seems that any form of thermaling is a good way to get another look at their
> lunch. I've been giving rides for the past 14 years but recently I've smelled
>way too much vomit - please help!
>
>Thanks,
>Jamie
__________________________________________________________________________
Brett Jaffee
Brett's Slope and Power Home Page:
http://home.earthlink.net/~jaffee
The Unoffical Extra 300 Home Page:
http://www.bayarea.net/~nathan/extra300/
OnTheWay: Quake 2 & 3 server utility
http://www.planetquake.com/ontheway
REMOVE THE "NOSPAM" FROM MY EMAIL ADDRESS BEFORE REPLYING!
__________________________________________________________________________
Shawn Curry
> snip
>
> If you leave them woozy and worried about getting sick, they'll say
> "that was great, but I can't handle it." If they actually puke,
> they'll never come back.
>
> John Cochrane
Wrong! I took a ride with (defunct) Cloud Base in Boulder about eight
years ago. Puked my guts out. Now I've got 200 hours and a share of a
glider. (please no comments on what I should have learned from the
experience).
Shawn
John M. Morgan
Brett Jaffee <NOSPAM...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:7spvbi$ilo$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Wow....I'm in the unique position of being the expert here - in that I've
only
> flown in a sailplane once, and I almost got sick. :)
full
> scale soaring again...any suggestions
Brett,
I'm a recent convert to soaring (September last year). My only experience
being power planes and just three backseat rides in sailplanes, one of which
involved thermalling. I was queasy - - and I *hate* being sick.
There is a huge difference between being a passenger and pilot. The pilot
has the advantage of knowing what the ship is going to do. This seems to
smooth the coupling between the inner ear, eyes and brain. In a very few
flights, you will likely be used to the circling so that it isn't
uncomfortable at all. Put the RC stuff on static display and go for it!
bumper
Larry Goddard
> One prevention that I did not see mentioned is the use of ginger tablets.
> Taken about 45 minutes before take-off and about 1-2 hours thereafter,
> ginger tablets work wonders for many novice passengers. They can be
> purchased at most Nutrition/Vitamin outlets. My first experience with them
> was during a reef dive. The dive master passed out the ginger tablets on a
> rough day out with excellent results for most divers. I have used them
> successfully with my own 2-32 passengers.
>
I tried them several years ago during a contest out west and they made me
drowsy. Not the greatest thing to have happen in a Uvalde thermal with 30 other
gliders.
Larry Goddard
"01" USA
LS484
I'm not sure as to what to say before the flight, but a couple things I think
help are: 1) Put an air vent directly on the passenger's face, 2) Have them
look straight ahead and try to fly straight and level at the first sign of air
sickness.
I try to keep them talking. If I have a passenger that begins to clam up, I
suspect air sickness and try to be gentle with my turns and fly as smoothly as
possible. I also ask them very directly "how they are feeling." I've also
found that few non-pilots can take more than 30 minutes on the 1st flight.
Good luck and keep the bag handy just in case.
Rob
Tony Corbett
Have you ever met a car driver that got car sick ...?!
Regards,
Tony
Regards,
Tony
--
Systems Maintenance Engineer Email : to...@powernet.co.uk
Power Internet Limited Phone : 01908 605188
Milton Keynes, UK Fax : 01908 242099
Jim Vause
Angelomant <angel...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990926121652...@ng-ci1.aol.com...
> What about those patches you put behind behind your ear? Do they work, and
do
> they make you drowsey?
> Angelo Mantas
Patches usually are scopaderm: a hyoscine type drug that make people drowsy:
not to be used flying..I tried them once sailing across the pacific: used
them on my chest and absorbed the drug too rapidly: bad side effects.
Jim
Garret I. Willat
you cant look at your airspeed while flying, you must look at your nose with
realtion to the horizon. If you do look at the airspeed indicator, you will
get behind due to its lag. Also with the thermalling, if its a good day you
might as well introduce thermalling, if not your wasting a day and the money
of the student. you need to show them how to have fun too, thermalling is
an excellent way.
Garret "some new kid instructor"
Brent Sullivan <brent_s...@REMOVETOREPLYbmc.com> wrote in message
news:37EFBD3B...@REMOVETOREPLYbmc.com...
> I'm not an instructor, nor do I play one on TV, but... My humble opinion
is that
> you shouldn't learn thermalling technique until you've mastered airspeed
control.
> You be getting your airspeed predominantly from a variety of other cues
(sound,
> attitude, buffeting, tightness of the circle you are maintaining, etc.) so
that you
> can keep your head out of the cockpit--alert for other traffic and forming
an image
> of what that thermal's structure looks like.
>
> Angelomant wrote:
>
> >
> > 3) STARING AT THE INSTRUMENT PANEL - My instructor told me to constantly
watch
> > my airspeed while thermaling, that this was the only way to keep my
airspeed
> > constant, and that I should look out only once a 360 (is this right?)
> > Angelo Mantas
>
Larry Goddard
> As an instructor:
> you cant look at your airspeed while flying, you must look at your nose with
> realtion to the horizon. If you do look at the airspeed indicator, you will
> get behind due to its lag.
Nope. The airspeed indicator is virtually instantaneous... unlike a variometer
which does have lag.
The only 'lag' is in the speed of the aircraft referenced to your attitude. For
instance, at a stable speed pull back on the stick a little. Your nose rises
and the speed of the glider gradually begins to slow down. There was a "lag"
between the time you gave the control input bringing the nose up and the
decrease in speed. However, your airspeed indicator would have given you
correct airspeed indications throughout the entire maneuver.
Please understand that I am not advocating watching the airspeed indicator for
speed control. External attitude is much better for normal speed control,
keeping your eyes outside the cockpit. But the airspeed indicator is an
accurate indicator of your speed at a given point in time.
Larry Goddard
"01" USA
Rolf Jeppsson
>Please understand that I am not advocating watching the airspeed indicator
for
>speed control. External attitude is much better for normal speed control,
>keeping your eyes outside the cockpit. But the airspeed indicator is an
>accurate indicator of your speed at a given point in time.
>
>Larry Goddard
>"01" USA
>
>
It is better to look outside and watch out for other aircraft that might
otherwise end your flight in an unpleasent way
Ian Johnston
: Patches usually are scopaderm: a hyoscine type drug that make people drowsy:
: not to be used flying..I tried them once sailing across the pacific: used
: them on my chest and absorbed the drug too rapidly: bad side effects.
I used to use Scopaderm for sailing - I found it superb, with no drowsiness
at all (different people react different ways to hyoscine). However, Ciba
pulled it from the market several years ago in a welter of contradictory
and confusing explanations, and as far as I know it hasn't come back.
Ian