negative flaps--what speeds?
303pilot
flaps becomes beneficial during cruise. Any pointers as to what speeds are
associated with -1 and -2 flap positions? Any data on the LD benefits of
negative flaps at higher speeds?
I read Dick Johnson's flight eval (Aug '79) and my take away is that it
makes sense to go to -1 (4.6 degrees) at around 80 kts and that there's
little difference between -1 and -2. I also understood that article to say
that the speed of best LD could be increased by 5 kts by using -1. Is my
understanding on these two points correct? Dick says the weather was poor
and there was a lot of scatter in the data--does anyone have experience that
agrees/disagrees with Johnson's report?
Any help appreciated--specific to the 303 or regarding flap use during
cruise in general. Hey, I'm transitioning from a PW5 to a 15M and it's got
a lot of new thingies to get used to--retractable wheel, flaps, water,
LEGS!!! ;-)
Brent
Udo Rumpf
Dave Martin
>The manual for my 303 Mosquito is silent as to when
>the use of negative
I am a Mosquito owner.
I have found that normal thermalling is best done at
around the 45-50kt range with +1 flap. I have flown
in weak wave where at around 50knots the glider was
sinking and putting the flaps up to 0 enabled the glider
to climb. The drag is obviously less in the higher
(up) flap setting
When cruising I put the flaps in whatever position
feels comfortable with little reference to the ASI,
other than to monitor the chosen cruise speed. The
way to do this is quite simple, once you start to increase
speed move the flap lever into the free position and
without letting go, let it float. You will find that
it adopts a set position which can be felt, for a given
speed, then you can drop it into the closest notch.
After a while this becomes automatic.
Two other simple techniques are
1. When leaving a thermal put the flaps right up
before you accelerate, on some gliders like the ASW20
putting the flaps up causes a quite marked speed increase,
the Mosquito is not quite so marked and need a little
help from the stick. One you have reached your chosen
cruise speed you can then reset the flaps as required.
2. Only put the flaps down when you have slowed after
your pull up into the next thermal.
This means you are accelerating and decelerating with
minimum drag and do not have to worry about the speed
settings as you speed up and slow down.
Landing the Mosquito is a whole new ball game!! The
was a thread running a few months ago on this subject.
Hope this helps
Dave Martin
>
>
Duncan McC
<brentUNDERSCOREsullivanATbmcDOTcom> says...
> The manual for my 303 Mosquito is silent as to when the use of negative
> flaps becomes beneficial during cruise. Any pointers as to what speeds are
> associated with -1 and -2 flap positions? Any data on the LD benefits of
> negative flaps at higher speeds?
<snip>
We have two pdf articles that you might find of value..
"Mosquito Type Conversion" and "Mosquito flight test
evaluation"
You'll find 'em on our temp website page...
http://www.omarama.com - in the Documents section on that page.
--
Duncan
iPilot
approach (not related to specific glider). The idea was that one has to put flaps down WHILE slowing
down, not after. And the reasoning was that flap position is not that much depending on the speed of
the glider, but on angle of attack. So if one attacks thermals aggressively making serious pull-ups,
the increased AOA means one has to advance in flap settings beforehand the lowering speeds. Same
applies to leaving the thermal cause then the AOA decreases. It was told to be making huge
differences.
Regards,
Kaido, who doesn't fly flapped gliders currently.
iPilot
"iPilot" <ipiloot_...@hot.ee> wrote in message news:bfqnbu$plk$1...@kadri.ut.ee...
Dave Martin
Read, 'Advance Cross Country Soaring' by John Delafield.
Pages 81 Flaps
John gives a detailed account of the use of flaps,
which agrees with what I said, or more to the point,
there were few articles written on the correct use
of flaps in 1983 and the information from John helped
me learn how to use the flaps.
In summary he says, 'Flaps should be not be regarded
as anything other than an auxilary control to enable
the pilot to operate the wing efficiently throughout
the speed range. The are straight forward in use and
will become instinctive after only a few hours' practice.'
The method described is simple and reduces the movements
to a minimum and saves the pilot worrying what the
next setting should be.
Flaps UP to slow down. Flaps UP to accelerate, then
once the
required speed has been achieved set them to support
flight at that speed.
The only word of caution is that in large pull ups
and push overs with reduced G at the top and increased
stall speed because of the negative flap setting the
pilot may be in serious danger of spinning.
Udo Rumpf
to leave the flap in cruise position till the trajectory has been
established
only then do you feed in flap for any given speed or for the appropriate
CL.
AT lower CL the lowered flap will cause more drag.
When Leaving the thermal , the glider is pushed over
to increase the speed, momentarily at that point the wing is producing
less lift, and the CL can be higher then normal and the flap can be lowered
for
a few second still further then is normal for the thermal setting.
Each flap setting has its optimum range if not in that range It always
will cause more drag.
In any case the process of leaving the thermal should be gradual
and part of the cruising speed should have been attained
before leaving the thermal.
Udo
"iPilot" <ipiloot_...@hot.ee> wrote in message
news:bfqnbu$plk$1...@kadri.ut.ee...
Bert Willing
accelerate by pushing the flaps to negativ, and I deccelerate by pulling
them to positive settings. Works very nicely (but still using the stick :-)
I don't see why I should use negativ flaps to pull up.
Bert
"Dave Martin" <REMOVE_TO_REP...@aol.com> a écrit dans le message
de news:bfqsua$hst4v$1...@ID-49798.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Kaido
Robert Ehrlich
transient phases of flight, while little is said about
the appropriate setting for steady flight, except some
receipe like "this settinng in this speed range" without
justification. The appropriate setting should be derived
from the various polars corresponding to the various settings.
However, in most flight manuals provided by manufacturers,
you find an unique polar which is supposed to combine the
various ones in one with the proper setting at every speed,
and this is of little help and in some way wrong. If you consider
two polars, e.g. for zero setting and the first negative setting,
they intersect each other at some point. At speed above the
speed of this point, clearly the negative setting is better,
at speed below this point, the zero setting is better. But it
is not optimal to switch the setting juste when you cross this
speed. Above the intersection, the two polars have a common
tangent which meets each polar at some point, corresponding
to some speed, a low one for zero setting and a high one
for negative setting. You should never fly a speed between these
both speeds, either slower than the slow one with zero setting
or faster than the high one with negative setting. The choice
between them should be based on the vertical speed correponding
to the point where the common tangent intersect the vertical axis.
If your McCready setting plus sink speed is higher than this
speed, fly in the high speed range, else fly in the low speed range.
A properly designed McCready ring for a flapped ship should have these
both speeds at the same place on the ring marked at the position
of the vertical speed above, and you should switch both speed and
flaps setting when crossing this sink speed.
Well, this is theory, I searched in the various flight manuals of
the gliders in my clubs, only one (Janus) had separate polars for
each setting and the scale for vertical speeds was to low to
allow the determination of the common tangent and the associated
speed, the polars merely overlapped on some range.
In transient phases, there is a load factor F which differs from
1, and I guess that the appropriate setting at speed V is the setting
corresponding to speed V/sqrt(F) in steady flight.
This is true for straight flight, when circling this depends
how strong the thermal decreases with the distance to its core
and I know no other method than trying in each one what gives
the best result, i.e. best climb speed.
303pilot
"Robert Ehrlich" <Robert....@inria.fr> wrote in message
news:3F213286...@inria.fr...
> justification. The appropriate setting should be derived
> from the various polars corresponding to the various settings.
This is what I was trying to do with the three polars in Dick Johnson's
flight eval--the problem is that the weather wasn't optimal, producing a lot
of scatter in the polar curves.
Dave Martin
glider manual only has the single polar curve which
itself is a guestimate from a comparison flight with
a 16 metre Standard Cirrus B
I like to keep my flying simple, John Delafields method
works it is simple and in flight uncomplicated. I
suspect the savings on drag produced by speeding up
or slowing down with flaps in a negative, up, position
is relatively small.
Whereas putting flaps down at speed to slow down appears
very inefficient.
Still if you are happy with this loss of energy then
fine.
Dave Martin
Kirk Stant
> once the
> required speed has been achieved set them to support
> flight at that speed.
>
G (and therefore increase Angle of Attack - AOA - the wing is making
more lift, so having the flaps down (or at least not negative) should
help. The amount of lift needed for a set G is the same, so with less
flap more AOA (and drag) is needed. This can be seen easily during a
low pass (beatup) pull up - pull the flaps as G is applied and check
the altitude gain. Then try the same pull up leaving the flaps in
their negative position until pattern speed is reached - the
difference is remarkable! PS - Don't do this from a slow pass, or you
may have a real low pattern! Yes I found this out the hard way -
fortunately in a Lak-12 so low is a relative term.
> The only word of caution is that in large pull ups
> and push overs with reduced G at the top and increased
> stall speed because of the negative flap setting the
> pilot may be in serious danger of spinning.
Again, in a large push, G load is low, stall speed is low, really hard
to stall. In a hard pull, stall speed goes up, so flaps should go
down. If the pull is too aggressive and the nose gets too high (and
speed low...) then unload to low G, roll into the thermal and recover.
No spin problem there. Not a good idea in a gaggle, though - but
better than a spin!
My technique is to ease the flaps up as I accelerate, leading the
speed (flaps to the speed position slightly before the speed is
reached). When I slow down, I move the flaps proportional to the rate
of deccelaration, also leading the speed.
Airfoil performance at reduced or negative AOA is also a factor here -
I think I read somewhere that typical high-performance glider airfoils
are really draggy at negative AOAs, so that accelerations should not
be too aggresive.
Comments, anyone?
Kirk
LS6-b "66"
Bob Kuykendall
different polars, and it points towards a question that I've been
wondering for a while:
Why have none of the established manufacturers come out with an
auto-flap system that uses a computer to assess several parameters
(speed, angle of attack, G loading, air density, etc), and an actuator
to adjust the flaps to an appropriate setting?
I suspect that the answer might be, because it really doesn't matter
all that much. Look at the difference between the LS6 and the LS8 -
you can barely tell them apart until you get to about 85 knots.
However, that autoflap arrangement has a lot of whiz-bang appeal, and
I'd like to see someone give it a try.
Thanks, and best regards
Bruce Hoult
Robert Ehrlich <Robert....@inria.fr> wrote:
> If you consider
> two polars, e.g. for zero setting and the first negative setting,
> they intersect each other at some point. At speed above the
> speed of this point, clearly the negative setting is better,
> at speed below this point, the zero setting is better. But it
> is not optimal to switch the setting juste when you cross this
> speed. Above the intersection, the two polars have a common
> tangent which meets each polar at some point, corresponding
> to some speed, a low one for zero setting and a high one
> for negative setting. You should never fly a speed between these
> both speed
Another alternative is to use a flap setting between the detents while
in that speed range.
The performance difference is likely to be minor in any case.
When I fly the Janus -- the only flapped ship I fly, and which (as you
note) gives individual polars in the manual -- I tend to choose between
the lower and higher flap setting based on what I and the air are likely
to be doing. For example, when flying in the 50 - 60 knot range, if the
air is smooth (e.g. in wave) I'll fly in zero flap. If the air is bumpy
and I'm turning from side to side looking for a thermal then I'll use +6
becasue I figure that the better response and performance at the higher
AOA in a gust will outweigh the little extra drag the rest of the time.
At the other end, it was I think the Dick Johnson report that claimed
that there was no speed range in which -4 was better than both 0 and -7,
so don't use it.
-- Bruce
Dave Martin
>
>> The only word of caution is that in large pull ups
>> and push overs with reduced G at the top and increased
>> stall speed because of the negative flap setting the
>> pilot may be in serious danger of spinning.
>
>Again, in a large push, G load is low, stall speed
>is low, really hard
>to stall. In a hard pull, stall speed goes up, so
>flaps should go
>down. If the pull is too aggressive and the nose gets
>too high (and
>speed low...) then unload to low G, roll into the thermal
>and recover.
> No spin problem there. Not a good idea in a gaggle,
>though - but
>better than a spin!
>
Kirk invited comments -- obviously an aerotow man.
Kirk try this in your machine at height I suggest several
thousand feet.
Fly at 60 knots and then pull hard back to about 45
degrees climb attitude, as the speed decays push hard
forwards, as you attain straight and level flight turn
quickly left or right . If you do it correctly you
can enter a spin nicely, IN any machine!!!!!!!
It is the classic spin off a winch launch failure.
Pulling up hard into thermals and pushing hard over
is no different. As an instructor it requires a
little practice to make it work every time. Somehow
students do it with ease
If your description of how you pull up is true then
I will steer clear of you in the sky! May be you were
just taking the p***
Dave Martin
Mike Borgelt
wrote:
Bob,
You don't need a computer. About 20 years ago the Akaflieg
Braunschweig had an auto flap sustem in an LS3. Essentially a weight
on an arm - more g more flapdown. Less g and the faster you go the
airloads push the flap up more. Do this correctly and it all works
nicely I'm told. You do need a damper as you are un mass balancing the
flaps and might be prone to flutter.
The flaps on the LS6 barely work according to the DLR polar I have
which is of course why the LS8 works so well.
Mike Borgelt
Andreas Maurer
<wil...@ir-microsystems.com> wrote:
>Flaps are just a pitch control which is more direct than the stick. I do
>accelerate by pushing the flaps to negativ, and I deccelerate by pulling
>them to positive settings. Works very nicely (but still using the stick :-)
>I don't see why I should use negativ flaps to pull up.
Yup. Always keep the AoA constant by using the flaps.
I think the procedure that is described in the ASW-20's manual
describes the physics very well.
Bye
Andreas
Dave Martin
Without wanting to prolong the argument
There appear to be two ways of achieving the same objective,
pilots should just chose the one they are happy with.
I trust the John Delafield theory and find it works,
others prefer yours and Berts
Dave
14:06 26 July 2003, Andreas Maurer wrote:
>On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:31:35 +0200, 'Bert Willing'
Kirk Stant
A man of all tastes - I have winch launched (in Germany) and would do
it if available out here, but in the US aerotow is more common. I'm
also a tow pilot, so have seen it from both ends.
>
> Kirk try this in your machine at height I suggest several
> thousand feet.
>
> Fly at 60 knots and then pull hard back to about 45
> degrees climb attitude, as the speed decays push hard
> forwards, as you attain straight and level flight turn
> quickly left or right . If you do it correctly you
> can enter a spin nicely, IN any machine!!!!!!!
Interesting maneuver. Sounds like a rolling departure - which would
take some real mishandling of the glider to do! I also so some
aerobatics (Grobs, Swifts, Pilatus etc) so I'm a bit familiar with
what a glider will do in unusual attitudes.
>
> It is the classic spin off a winch launch failure.
> Pulling up hard into thermals and pushing hard over
> is no different. As an instructor it requires a
> little practice to make it work every time. Somehow
> students do it with ease
Sounds like you are forcing a negative AOA stall then rolling, causing
an inverted spin from right side up.
>
> If your description of how you pull up is true then
> I will steer clear of you in the sky! May be you were
> just taking the p***
>
Well, In my description I never lose control of my glider, despite a
badly misjudged pullup to well below stall speed - in yours you depart
into a spin! I think I will steer clear of you, too!
> Dave Martin
Cheers,
Kirk
Dave Martin
>Dave Martin wrote in message >
Kirk
The exercise I described is one of the BGA stall reinforcement
exercises. The common cause following a winch launch
failure, pushing hard forward, then as the attitude
looks correct and as the glider is in a reduced G situation
starting a turn. (Without getting the books out that
is as simple as I can describe it) This has caused
several accidents in the UK some of them fatal.
The danger also exists when pulling up sharply in to
a thermal and pushing over hard at the top of the pull
up then starting a turn in reduced G.
Fingers crossed as yet I have never entered a spin
pulling up into thermals. But as an instructor at
a winch launch site, it something you need to be able
to demonstrate.
But we are getting away from the thread...........
Regards
Dave
Eric Greenwell
REMOVE_TO_REP...@aol.com says...
> The danger also exists when pulling up sharply in to
> a thermal and pushing over hard at the top of the pull
> up then starting a turn in reduced G.
Do people really enter thermals this way? I've never seen anyone do
this. I might pull up at as much as 1.5 g momentarily, but just let it
bleed down to 1 g and start a turn. What is the value in pushing hard
at the top, instead of just entering a turn?
--
!Replace DECIMAL.POINT in my e-mail address with just a . to reply
directly
Eric Greenwell
Richland, WA (USA)
Bill Daniels
These are fun maneuvers. I find a Blanik L-23 to be a prefect trainer for
them - it spins easily, recovers easily with little altitude loss or
airspeed gain.
My winch stall maneuver is done at a safe altitude (of course). First, I
ask the student to dive then zoom up at 45 - 50 degrees, then when the
airspeed drops to about 55Kts, I yell "wire break" and expect the student to
push over smartly in a simulated wire break recovery. (This gets the
student used to the attitude and feel of a wire break and the control inputs
needed for a recovery before trying it for real on the winch.)
If the student doesn't screw it up on his own, I will demonstrate a botched
recovery by doing nothing until the nose falls on its own then stopping the
pitch-down at the normal gliding attitude. This results in the airspeed at
about 15 knots with the glider held level with near full-up elevator. The
L-23 will usually oblige with a quick flip into a spin even if no turn is
attempted - try a turn and it will spin for sure. No student observing this
has failed to appreciate that the wings should be level and the nose needs
to be well below the normal glide attitude and held there until a safe
airspeed is achieved.
The thermal entry stall/spin only requires that the pilot hold into-the-turn
rudder a second or two longer than needed while trying to reduce airspeed
still further. In most cases, this is a full cross-controlled accelerated
stall from a 45 degree bank - wheee! (I've caught some high time pilots
with this one.)
Bill Daniels
Bill Daniels
"Eric Greenwell" <flyg...@charterDECIMAL.POINTnet> wrote in message
news:MPG.198ceffd6...@news.charter.net...
Depends on how long you hold the 1.5G. Hold it long enough and you might
get a steep pitch up that requires forward stick to get the nose down for
the turn. Rush it and things get interesting.
Bill Daniels
Kirk Stant
> The thermal entry stall/spin only requires that the pilot hold into-the-turn
> rudder a second or two longer than needed while trying to reduce airspeed
> still further. In most cases, this is a full cross-controlled accelerated
> stall from a 45 degree bank - wheee! (I've caught some high time pilots
> with this one.)
>
> Bill Daniels
Interesting exercise. Also sounds like a good way to teach
low-G/low-AOA affects on stall speeds. I can see how it would work
well in something like a Blanik, with a huge elevator. How do
competition ships with small elevators react? I'll have to try with
my LS6, but I have the feeling that the elevator is not powerful
enough to keep the nose from falling through and causing a stall/spin.
On the other hand, in the same nose high/close to stall speed
situation, the LS6 (and any other glider, I'm sure) reacts perfectly
well to an unloaded (low-G) roll in the direction of the intended
turn, followed by an easy nose down acceleration to a safe speed
before pulling on the G necessary for the turn. Not a recommended
normal thermal entry by any means, but a way to recover from a
botched, overenthusiastic zoom-in.
The obvious key is the G (or AOA) versus airspeed relationship.
Trying to turn when the airspeed is down in the teens would show that
the pilot has a certain lack of situational awareness!
Kirk
66
Bruce Hoult
sta...@mindspring.com (Kirk Stant) wrote:
> On the other hand, in the same nose high/close to stall speed
> situation, the LS6 (and any other glider, I'm sure) reacts perfectly
> well to an unloaded (low-G) roll in the direction of the intended
> turn, followed by an easy nose down acceleration to a safe speed
> before pulling on the G necessary for the turn. Not a recommended
> normal thermal entry by any means, but a way to recover from a
> botched, overenthusiastic zoom-in.
>
> The obvious key is the G (or AOA) versus airspeed relationship.
> Trying to turn when the airspeed is down in the teens would show that
> the pilot has a certain lack of situational awareness!
Yeah, I can't see why people would spin from such a situation. I mean,
sure, if you pull the stick all the way back you may well spin, but why
would you do that? If you use the same stick positions as you do at
normal speeds then there is no problem.
-- Bruce
Bill Daniels
"Kirk Stant" <sta...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:dc8b21a6.03072...@posting.google.com...
A stall occurs only when the AOA exceeds about 16 degrees for most airfoils.
Low G, by itself, isn't dangerous and, in fact, reduces the stall speed
since the wing isn't loaded. The stalling AOA comes in at the transition
from low G to > one G.
Most competition ships fly with the CG well aft so, even with small
elevators, they have plenty of elevator authority for some interesting
stalls. I do worry that many competition pilots get very close to a
stall/spin departure without realizing it during an aggressive thermal
entry. This is particularly dangerous when down low (I've GOT to center
this thermal or land out.) Desperately and aggressively trying to center a
small core when under the stress of a pending outlanding is a bad
combination - there have been a more than a few bad outcomes to this
situation.
Bill Daniels
Bert Willing
seater aerobatics).
Bert
"Mike Borgelt" <mbor...@borgeltinstruments.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:8sn3ivg46ih0vmuiv...@4ax.com...
Mike Borgelt
<wil...@ir-microsystems.com> wrote:
>It's been the Akaflieg Munich, and the glider was/is the Mü 28 (single
>seater aerobatics).
>
>Bert
>
You are right it was Munich but they did have an LS3 as well with the
auto flap.
Mike Borgelt
Steve Pawling
I was trying some different settings and noticed that at 100 knots,
the flaps could be moved between 0 and -7 with no issues. At 120 knots
the flaps wanted to stay at about -3 and when I moved them to -7,
which required some pressure, it created a humming noise. Seems that
-7 should be better at higher speeds but the noise and pressure on the
flap handle tells me otherwise.
Also, the LS-3a Flight Manual has the following instructions:
Up to 103 knots - Flaps should be between 0 and -7, depending on
desired speed. Once the aircraft is trimmed for thermaling, no
additional trim adjustment is required for high speed flight. Any
stick forces can be removed by adjusting the flap position. This
results in the correct flap position for all speeds.
103 ~ 146 knots - Flap position -7. Stick forces should be reduced to
zero through trim adjustment.
All the best,
Steve
Dave Martin <REMOVE_TO_REP...@aol.com> wrote in message news:<bfps6u$h0qrb$1...@ID-49798.news.uni-berlin.de>...
snip
>
> When cruising I put the flaps in whatever position
> feels comfortable with little reference to the ASI,
> other than to monitor the chosen cruise speed. The
> way to do this is quite simple, once you start to increase
> speed move the flap lever into the free position and
> without letting go, let it float. You will find that
> it adopts a set position which can be felt, for a given
> speed, then you can drop it into the closest notch.
> After a while this becomes automatic.
>
snip
>
> Dave Martin
> >
> >
Robert Ehrlich
> ...
> Yup. Always keep the AoA constant by using the flaps.
> I think the procedure that is described in the ASW-20's manual
> describes the physics very well.
Isn't the attitude rather than the AoA you are keeping constant?
As far as I can say from experience on LS6, it flies with nearly
the same attitude at high speed with negative flaps and at low speeds
with zero or positive flaps, which means that the Aoa (defined as the
angle between the direction of the airflow and the wing chord, i.e.
the line frm leading to (moving) trailing edge) varies.
Robert Ehrlich
>
> Robert raises some good points about interpolating between the
> different polars, and it points towards a question that I've been
> wondering for a while:
>
> Why have none of the established manufacturers come out with an
> auto-flap system that uses a computer to assess several parameters
> (speed, angle of attack, G loading, air density, etc), and an actuator
> to adjust the flaps to an appropriate setting?
>
I think one of the reason for not doing that is that it would make the
use of some (probably eletrical) power supply mandatory. I don't know
if it is a part of the certification requirements, but the fact is that
in all gliders, the basic operation is always possible without any such
power. E.g. in France at least only the basic pneumatic instruments are
mandatory, and they must be pneumatic.
Andreas Maurer
Yes and no.
Indeed - all flapped ships show this behaviour.
If you define the wing chord as the connection between the leading
edge and the (moving) trailing edge of the wing, of course the AoA
varies.
But if you define the chord as the connection between leading edge and
trailing edge with flaps neutral (= best L/D) the AoA is kept
constant.
Schleicher describes the need for the latter definition like this: The
optimum laminar airflow (= least drag) on an airfoil only happens on a
certain AoA - and since the laminar airflow happens on the fixed part
of the airfoil, one needs to keep the AoA of this part of the airfoil
constant. The lift is controlled by the flap setting.
Physically not entirely correct, but logical. :)
Under varying g-loads of course you have to adjust the flaps to keep
this AoA constant:
Positive g-loads: Flaps positive (relative to the current flaps
position).
G-load under 1: Flaps negative (relative to the current flaps
position).
The 20 reacts particularly sensitive to flap settings - by constantly
adjusting flap setting to the current g-load one can get a significant
increased perfrmance. The 27 for example is a lot less sensitive in
this regard.
Bye
Andreas
Shaber CJ
>which is of course why the LS8 works so well.
>
>Mike Borgelt
Mike any idea where I can get polar data on the V2C?
Shaber CJ
set flap positions, Sean Franke's Ventus has this. I I do not know how it
works but was hoping someone has used sucha device and could comment.
Craig