Boycott Cumulous Soaring Supplies!
sisu1a
Cumulous Soaring Supplies, and in solidarity with my position I would
kindly ask that you rather support the OTHER vendors for your
sailplane needs and supplies (you'll get a better deal too!) in the
future, since his actions were taken with full awareness of what he
was doing. He decided that whatever gains he would get from this
calculated move were worth the price. I just want it to be clear.
In summary, Paul Remde began selling all the glider models I listed on
ras some weeks back (most of the glider models I knew about, a list
compiled over years of stone flipping on this obscure subject). Not
satisfied there, he contacted me about getting in on HpH models too
(which my company, Eagle Brand Products, was the exclusive US rep for
at that point, see:
http://www.hph.cz/ and click on 'contacts' on the scroll tab below
'company'...) I told him that not only was I NOT OK with him pursuing
this relationship with HpH, I also explained to him how what he was
doing with the kits was not making me happy either. Although I knew it
was already too late with the kits and did not expect him to cease
(although that would have been the honorable thing to do...), the HpH
thing required further active participation on his behalf, AFTER
knowing full well my position and wishes. For whatever motivation, he
saw fit to carry through with this relationship though. While this may
be acceptable behavior in some sports/circles, I find it terribly
disconcerting to not only witness it here in the gliding community by
such a prominent figure (that puts up such a different front) but to
also be victim of it.
Like many others, I always assumed Paul Remde was a nice guy, but his
behavior in this matter has been most surprising and I feel the need
to make it a public affair so others may make an informed decision as
to who they should support in the future.
In case you don't know what this is about and did not read my
response post to his newsletter announcement containing the 'exiting
new info' that he has begun a working relationship with HpH models,
here is a cut/paste:
> a.. New - Sailplane Models
Mr. Remde,
You are really some piece of work. Even after our email communication
on the 21 of last month when I told you that I did NOT feeling like
sharing my duties as the US representative for HpH's models, and you
seemed to understand my position in your reply to me on the 26, you
went ahead and pursued a business relationship with HpH anyways?
Despite the fact that there is not even any money in it? I even went
so far as to explain to you how important model sailplanes were to ME,
and how that was MY form of outreach that I was bringing to the table.
Funny you claim to such passionate love for sailplane models in your
newsletter, but you did NOT even know about ANY of those models
(except the 1/32 scale Revells everyone knows about...) until I posted
what models were REALLY available on ras shortly before, then you cut
and pasted the fruits of MY labor to use in your never ending hustle
scheme. I was not going to mention to you how uncomfortable I felt
about it then since you technically beat me to the punch with offering
the kits, but then you even went so far as to contact me about wanting
to edge in on HpH business too, to which I DECLINED you "kind" offer.
This is the first time someone in the glider community has really
offended me and stepped on my toes/stabbed me in the back. (funny it
comes from someone that touts such wholesome family values...) Mr.
Remde did this knowing full well what he was doing, and all just to be
"the man", as there really is no money in the models. I hope people
that read this understand what happened here. Essentially Paul Remde
just ripped me off for all the money I've spent buying and promoting
Eagle Brand Products. At great personal expense, I attended the last 3
conventions with all of my HpH display models. Since this is such a
low dollar deal it is obviously not your greed for money propelling
you in this disrespectful venture (this time...) but clearly your
greed for recognition by the soaring community as being the 'go to
guy'. Clearly you have no honor, but have you no shame either? Are you
in such need of this attention that you had to use your superior
buying position to rub me out of the business?
I know YOU know you don't have the moral high ground here, I just want
others who may fall for your 'innocent christian' act to see what you
are also capable of. (what would Jesus say to you now?) You have lost
ALL respect from me, and I sure hope others respect you less for what
you have so gleefully done here. You KNOWINGLY and WILLINGLY stomped
on my toes, and for that you deserve to be called out. It's people
like you...
Deeply Offended,
Paul HANSON
PS. I already thought less of you when you so rigidly refused to knock
even $20 off a $900+ item I wanted to buy at the last convention
(despite being vendor-to-vendor, you even seemed offended that I dared
to ask...), CASH in hand. Thankfully Richard at Craggy is a more down
to earth than you are (Tim and Tom for that matter too...)
KevinFinke
learned. I remember one of them.
"Life isn't fair! Now get over it."
Welcome to the world of business.
Rather than whine about how you think you've been cheated out of
something, why not step up to the plate and try and win back this
business you've supposedly lost by offering better service? Isn't it
really up to HpH to decide if they would like another distributor?
Perhaps they've been unhappy with your efforts to market their
products in the US?
As for stealing all of your hard work, it looks like to me on the post
you allude to,
You have found some links and posted them publicly for the whole world
to use. If you had been planning on making these models available to
others via your business/website and had been planning on establishing
contacts with these vendors to make that possible, all Mr. Remde seems
guilty of is working harder and faster than you to provide this
service. To the best of my knowledge, in a free market society, this
is neither illegal nor un-ethical. Especially after said information
was made available via a public forum.
I realize this isn't very sympathetic and I feel sorry for you. I
think that whining and moaning isn't very high class and honorable
either.
My 2 cents...
garyd...@cox.net
directed to HpH. If there was an exclusive distributor relationship it
appears to have been cancelled. That would have been a decision by
HpH.
309
Alas, no 1-26 models.
Tuno
I feel for your situation, I really do, but I have to chime in with
Kevin on this one.
Paul (R) may sound a little holier-than-thou on occasion and he may
even be guilty as charged in this case but when a bigger bird pooped
on me in my humble business venture some time ago, nobody listened
when I whined about it, but people did respond when I put my nose to
the grindstone and built a better product at a better price. That
works a heck of a lot better than rants and accusations, no matter
what product or service you're providing.
I suggest you take up the matter with HPH and not use this forum to
seek justice.
And to all a good night,
~ted/2NO
gk7...@gmail.com
comments are now doubt valid, I would like to defend Paul Hanson's
right to feel aggrieved.
While there is no doubt that the foibles of the business world can be
cruel, I must say that it seems there is at least a chance that Paul
Remde has not handled things well here. It may be hph's right to have
an additional distributor, and it may be fair for Paul R. to get into
Paul Hanson's business, but could these hard feelings have been
avoided? Did Paul R. take the time to explain these harsh facts to
Paul H? Did Paul R. play the role of mentor to Paul H? (As pilots, we
should all recall the importance of someone with more experience and
insight helping us learn the ropes.) Perhaps he did, but if not, I
have some empathy with Paul H's anger.
I met Paul Hanson briefly at an antique gilder fly-in a while back. I
was very heartened by this young man's enthusiasm and commitment to
soaring! (Don't we need all the young people we can find in soaring)?
If he was of the mind-set that this community had a little more of
family feel than that of a bunch of businessmen, is that a bad thing?
I don't know all the details, but I do know that often, when someone
is angry, there is a good reason.
What do you say, Paul R., is there anything you could have done
differently here?
I love the community feel of Soaring. On New Year's eve, let's have a
toast to all the Paul R's and Paul H's who work to support soaring!
Cheers,
Gary Kent
Paul Remde
Actually, I think that 1-26 models are available. I am awaiting a response
from HPH on that subject.
Good Soaring,
Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
"309" <pdo...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:b63b780a-49d2-4e31...@p2g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Greg Arnold
> Hi,
>
> Actually, I think that 1-26 models are available. I am awaiting a response
> from HPH on that subject.
1-26 is listed on the HpH webpage. Go to hph.cz, click on "Models," and
page down to the list of models. Also is listed on Paul's webpage.
Paul Remde
As I stated in my other post in this thread - I will take your comment below
as constructive criticism and will make a conscious effort not to be
"holier-than-thou". I'm being sincere. I have been told before that I can
sometimes come off as arrogant. That is really not my intention. I do a
lot of self promoting, but I really don't think I'm better than anyone
else - anywhere. I have some specific, technical, soaring related knowledge
that some customers find helpful, but I know that I don't "know everything".
Sincerely,
Paul Remde
"Tuno" <tedcw...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7da20ea1-a487-4c58...@q30g2000prq.googlegroups.com...
Paul Remde
I think that your post below is way out of line. I hope you will consider
an apology. I am working hard to earn all my living from supporting soaring
customers. I'm not perfect, but I do aim to do a good job for my customers.
Please see my comments below.
Good Soaring,
Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
"sisu1a" <pa...@eaglebrandproducts.com> wrote in message
news:fcc473cd-1059-4fc6...@v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
> All, I have been deeply offended and done wrong by Paul Remde of
> Cumulous Soaring Supplies, and in solidarity with my position I would
> kindly ask that you rather support the OTHER vendors for your
> sailplane needs and supplies (you'll get a better deal too!) in the
> future, since his actions were taken with full awareness of what he
> was doing. He decided that whatever gains he would get from this
> calculated move were worth the price. I just want it to be clear.
>
- I'm OK with customers buying from the dealer they prefer. I'm even OK
with customers making a statement in this newsgroup if I have let them down.
Of course, I would prefer that they contact me first, because I will then
have the chance to make it right. But I am surprised that you would go so
far as to propose a "boycott" of my company. I feel that I am working hard
to support soaring customers and that I should have the opportunity to earn
a living doing so. Please refer to my other recent reply under the thread
"December Cumulus Soaring, Inc. Newsletter Available". I did my best there
to explain why I sincerely don't feel that I deserve your harsh and extreme
comments.
- I'm very sorry that you feel that I have offended you or tried to steal
from you. I sincerely don't see it that way.
> In summary, Paul Remde began selling all the glider models I listed on
> ras some weeks back (most of the glider models I knew about, a list
> compiled over years of stone flipping on this obscure subject). Not
> satisfied there, he contacted me about getting in on HpH models too
> (which my company, Eagle Brand Products, was the exclusive US rep for
> at that point, see:
> http://www.hph.cz/ and click on 'contacts' on the scroll tab below
> 'company'...) I told him that not only was I NOT OK with him pursuing
> this relationship with HpH, I also explained to him how what he was
> doing with the kits was not making me happy either. Although I knew it
> was already too late with the kits and did not expect him to cease
> (although that would have been the honorable thing to do...), the HpH
> thing required further active participation on his behalf, AFTER
> knowing full well my position and wishes. For whatever motivation, he
> saw fit to carry through with this relationship though. While this may
> be acceptable behavior in some sports/circles, I find it terribly
> disconcerting to not only witness it here in the gliding community by
> such a prominent figure (that puts up such a different front) but to
> also be victim of it.
- I'm sorry that you feel that my effort have been directed at you. That
was not the case. I have worked hard to add interesting new products to my
web site - most of which you do not sell and have never sold. I feel that I
have a right to sell any products I choose to. HPH seems to agree that it
will be in their best interest to add me as a dealer. I hope you will
continue to be a dealer for their products.
>
> Like many others, I always assumed Paul Remde was a nice guy, but his
> behavior in this matter has been most surprising and I feel the need
> to make it a public affair so others may make an informed decision as
> to who they should support in the future.
- I'm certainly not perfect. But I do try to be friendly and helpful to my
customers and I do work hard to do a good job supporting my customers. I'm
sure I have off days like everyone else. I hope you will notice that in all
off my replies to your harsh posts, I have not once said anything negative
about you or your company.
Paul Remde
I respect your opinions. Please read my reply to Paul Hanson's harsh posts
to me and let me know if my responses do not help clarify the situation.
Please also see my notes below. Let me know if you still feel that I have
behaved unethically or incorrectly. If I have, then I am sincerely sorry.
But I really don't think I have.
Sincerely,
Paul Remde
<gk7...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:90f104d9-46b0-4223...@z27g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>I would like to add a alternative view here. While all of the previous
> comments are now doubt valid, I would like to defend Paul Hanson's
> right to feel aggrieved.
>
> While there is no doubt that the foibles of the business world can be
> cruel, I must say that it seems there is at least a chance that Paul
> Remde has not handled things well here. It may be hph's right to have
> an additional distributor, and it may be fair for Paul R. to get into
> Paul Hanson's business, but could these hard feelings have been
> avoided? Did Paul R. take the time to explain these harsh facts to
> Paul H? Did Paul R. play the role of mentor to Paul H? (As pilots, we
> should all recall the importance of someone with more experience and
> insight helping us learn the ropes.) Perhaps he did, but if not, I
> have some empathy with Paul H's anger.
- I agree that it would (perhaps) have avoided this whole mess if I would
have sent a not to Paul explaining my reasons for adding the products to my
web site. I am sorry that I did not do that. However, I feel it was really
HPH's job to inform him, not mine. Actually, I did send him several
friendly notes explaining my actions. The only thing I did not do was tell
him a few weeks later that HPH offered a dealership to me.
>
> I met Paul Hanson briefly at an antique gilder fly-in a while back. I
> was very heartened by this young man's enthusiasm and commitment to
> soaring! (Don't we need all the young people we can find in soaring)?
> If he was of the mind-set that this community had a little more of
> family feel than that of a bunch of businessmen, is that a bad thing?
>
- I'm certain that Paul has done a lot to contribute to soaring. I respect
that. I don't think of myself as a cold-hearted business person. Like
Paul, I am also passionate about sailplane models. I think that hard work
that I have put into my web site shows my enthusiasm for glider models. The
amount of work I put into the pages was probably not finincially wise
because I'll never sell enough glider models to make up for the time put
into the web pages. For example, I did more than just list the available
glider models. I spent hours scanning each glider kit's parts, decals,
assembly instructions, etc. I didn't need to do that. I did it so glider
pilots could see exactly what each kit offered - before they bought it.
Can't both Paul Hanson AND Paul Remde be passionate about glider models?
> I don't know all the details, but I do know that often, when someone
> is angry, there is a good reason.
- I think the explanation here is just that Paul H. is passionate about
soaring, and glider models, and his business. Most glider pilots are
passionate about soaring. That is to be applauded. I just don't agree with
how he chose to react to my decision to enter the market.
>
> What do you say, Paul R., is there anything you could have done
> differently here?
- As mentioned above, I agree that it would have been better if I had sent
him a note explaining that HPH had made me a dealer and expressing my sincer
wish that we be friendly competitors. I think we market through different
channels and to mainly different customers.
>
> I love the community feel of Soaring. On New Year's eve, let's have a
> toast to all the Paul R's and Paul H's who work to support soaring!
- I'll drink to that! Thanks. I agree that Paul H. also deserves praise
for what he does for glider pilots, as do my other competitors.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Gary Kent
Paul Remde
You are correct sir. It is listed on my web site as well. I was
remembering incorrectly. There are many Schweizer models that are mentioned
on Paul Hanson's web site, that are not mentioned in the price list I
received from HPH. I sent a note to HPH asking them to add them to the
price list if they are available.
Thanks,
Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
"Greg Arnold" <Soa...@REMOVEcox.net> wrote in message
news:3ox5l.2876$u17....@newsfe20.iad...
Ken Ward
and service to me for a number of years. I will not be boycotting Paul,
but will be looking for ways to send him more of my business.
I also want to say that Tim Mara at Wings & Wheels has also provided
good service to me. Between the two of them, I've been able to get
everything that I need.
Regards,
Ken
PMSC Member
you lose a bit of credibility in your recruitment efforts, don't you
think?
Paul will continue to get my business.
S2
flyingmr2
us make much better buying decisions with his online demo videos and
training videos. I would rather pay an average price and buy the
right equipment now than have to buy the wrong one discounted only to
have to buy it again. Paul's prices are also good to average. This
posting should end up boosting Cumulus Soaring supplies with all the
free publicity and controversy. I will not be boycotting good
service!
kd6veb
and software from Paul and have appreciated his excellent service and
knowledge. His news letter is outstanding. From my own experience I
would 100% recommend buying from Paul.
Dave
soar...@myway.com
I would disagree about the prices. Cumulus Soaring's Prices are
higher to the highest.
Henry
Paul Remde
This is my best shot at a response to the note below stating that my prices
are high.
Please note that my prices are not always higher than my competitors. For
some products, at some times, they are lower. For products from outside the
USA you will find a lot of variation. I update my web site prices when I
receive shipments from vendors outside the USA. When the US $ is
increasing in value (as it did last month) my prices were lower than some of
my competitors because I received some shipments at that time. When the US$
is decreasing in value my prices may be higher than my competitors if I
received a shipment when the cost was high.
I have heard that at least one of my competitors doesn't always update his
web prices when the cost goes up, he just informs the customer when they
call to place an order. To be fair, it is tough to keep everything up to
date when you sell thousands of items. So it is not possible to directly
compare my accurate web prices with other (perhaps not up to date) web
prices. I am not pointing to a particular competitor at all. If you were
thinking of a particular soaring vendor when you read the note above, I may
have been thinking of a different competitor. I am just passing on what
some others have told me.
Please understand that I am certainly not trying to gouge or get
unreasonably high profits. I try to set my prices at fair levels. Many
soaring instrument manufacturers offer nice discounts, but some don't. Since
it is expensive to stock expensive soaring instruments, I don't feel I can
offer the same prices that some of my competitors offer. Some of them stock
the products and some don't. Also, sometimes you will see low prices as
dealers "dump" out of date products. I can't compete with that.
Also, please note that I am NOT getting rich doing this. I have a long way
to go to pay off my bank debt. I work very long hours for pretty low pay.
That will improve as my business continues to grow and I pay down my bank
debt. I am in this for the long haul.
As mentioned below, I do work hard to offer many value added items on my web
site such as products comparisons, detailed product photos and descriptions,
product overview videos, "Tips" documents, polar data, product selection
guides, etc. I think they are valuable. Many customers buy from me because
they feel that those features are valuable. I appreciate their support and
their business. I work hard to make my customers happy.
I realize that my competitors also work hard to support their customers. I
am not trying to knock anyone else - that is not my style. I would prefer
to have a friendly relationship with my competitors. We have a lot in
common and I respect them. I'm just trying to give at least a little
feedback to the note below.
Good Soaring,
Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com
<soar...@myway.com> wrote in message
news:cfe1bd12-c86b-4f27...@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
jpg...@googlemail.com
>
> news:cfe1bd12-c86b-4f27...@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 31, 9:38 am, flyingmr2 <flying...@ackerson.org> wrote:
>
> > Cumulus Soaring has the best buying guides second to none. Paul helps
> > us make much better buying decisions with his online demo videos and
> > training videos. I would rather pay an average price and buy the
> > right equipment now than have to buy the wrong one discounted only to
> > have to buy it again. Paul's prices are also good to average. This
> > posting should end up boosting Cumulus Soaring supplies with all the
> > free publicity and controversy. I will not be boycotting good
> > service!
>
> I would disagree about the prices. Cumulus Soaring's Prices are
> higher to the highest.
>
> Henry
For me the level of service and the added value of the information on
his website makes it well worth buying from Paul - even from across
the Atlantic
John Galloway
Gavin Short
>For me the level of service and the added value of the information on
>his website makes it well worth buying from Paul - even from across
>the Atlantic
>
>John Galloway
>
Exactly the same point of view here. I have bought from Paul Remde 3 or 4
times including a suite of Borgelt instrumentation. As I am paid in a
mixture of GBP and Euros I took advantage last winter of the good (for
British & Europeans) exchange rates and bought from Paul and paid the
customs fees and VAT (TVA) on arrival in Belgium. The latter involves a
considerable bureaucratic paperwork challenge which was eased by Paul
comprehensive documentation.
The level of support; website, e-mail and on one occasion via phone made
the purchase from Paul in the USA a logical and a safe choice each time
rather than a leap in the dark.
I could have chosen from 3 UK supplies and a Dutch and German supplier for
the varios. The Dutch supplier is only 50 miles from me.
Not withstanding the (then good) exchange rates Paul supplies things that
every glider pilot needs but at times are very difficult to source.
Everything from instrument blanks, connectors, pda cradles and mounting
arms. Lots of other suppliers supply some of them but not so many all in
one location. It is also very reassuring to know that Paul has done the
research and has established that A will fit with B and B will work with C
etc or that D & E may be a better option.
I know that Paul has many European customers. That is an amazing
testament to his business. The competition between soaring suppliers in
Europe is stiff and there are many of them. Within the European Union
goods can be traded seamlessly across borders with no customs/national
fees and VAT paid at the purchase location. Within the Eurozone itself
there are no currency exchange fees and no bank fees either (for internet
bank transfer between the purchasers account and the supplier - no credit
card (and charges) required, just carriage. So most purchases can be
achieved on line. So normally few would consider purchasing from the
USA.
Happy New Year
Gavin
Std Cirrus, CNN now G-SCNN, #173
LSV Viersen, Keiheuvel, Belgium
nimbus
Bruno Maes
ASH26E
Royal Verviers Aviation.