Pegasus 101A
LANGE...@macc.wisc.edu
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From: LANGE...@MACC.WISC.EDU (LARDNER)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.soaring
Subject: Pegasus 101A
Date: 16 Jan 1995 19:08:22 GMT
Organization: UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN -- MADISON
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I have been offered the chance to buy a good-looking, 300 hr TT Pegasus 101A.
Can anyone on the net offer comments on the following:
(1) Going prices with std. instruments, audio, radio, chute, O2 and trailer;
(2) Maintenance/rigging quirks and general upkeep issues; and
(3) Flight characteristics and suitability for "first glass" (I hope I don't
resurrect the recent LS-4 thread with the last question!).
Many thanks!
LARDNER
LARDNER
made reference to Schempp-Hirth; meant to say Schleicher. Mea culpa.
Cheers,
Mark
John Cochrane
2% below the Discus' 0.96, not the 5% Gary Kemp generously offered Discus
fliers for their extra $30,000. I.e., don't bother unless you're regularly
scoring 980 in contests, and have sealed and profiled your machine to the
last 1% of performance. Or unless you have this kind of money for the absolute
best.
John Cochrane
john.c...@gsb.uchicago.edu
Ken E. Ward
wrote:
Our club owns a 101a. My guess is that ours is worth $24k. The flying
surfaces were refinished in '92, it has Cambridge electric vario, Winter
mechanical vario, Dittel radio, Terra transponder & encoding altimeter
(Mode C), A8A oxygen, water bags (currently leaking; check them out as to
replace is $$), & Minden fab trailer.
No real rigging quirks. Left wing on, right wing on, one person jiggles a
tip while the second person slips in the big wing retaining slug. Connect
the Hotellier fittings. Check for evidence of belly landings (under nose
scrapes). Check for good canopy fit when closing the latches (sprung
canopy).
Our club is requiring 100 hrs TT PIC and 200 takeoffs/landings PIC before
checkout. I transitioned from a Grob 103 and don't really have any
problems with it, in fact I really love this glider! Did my first 300km O
& R flights in it this last summer in the Sierras, and it was great!!
Two minor things that I don't like: the trim system and the brakes
(although if the brakes were stronger they might end up dumping the glider
on its nose).
chib...@ibmmail.com
..
>No real rigging quirks. Left wing on, right wing on, one person jiggles a
>tip while the second person slips in the big wing retaining slug. Connect
>the Hotellier fittings. Check for evidence of belly landings (under nose
FYI: We had a directive around here that all Hotellier fittings had to be
replaced. I think it was to do with several accidents in which the assembler
had mistakenly believed the connector was locked when it was not. I would
advice any of you flying with these to take a bit of extra care to make
sure they are indeed locked and check with someone in the know whether or
not to replace them.
Hotellier fittings that were replaced (from memory) were: Push/rod
connecotrs used to couple control surfaces such as ailerons etc. The
rod, once connected, was locked in place by a 'rotating triangle' (rather
than the familiar sliding wedge type). I think they stopped production
of these 10 or more years ago. Cirrus, for example, were fitted
with these. Sorry it's all a bit in-exact nature of this post but I am no
airframe engineer!
Keith
GKEMP
AD on replacing Hotellier fittings, flew for the first 9 years without
pinning the wedge but I do now.
Gary
Bruce Hoult
That seems like a lot. The hardest glider at our club to get checked out
on is a Janus (the original one with the flying tailplane). We thought we
were being pretty conservative when we put a 75 hour/100 flight PIC
requirement on it "until we gained some experience", and we haven't had
any problems with it that I know of.
This makes 100 hours and 200 flights seem a lot for a standard class
glider. Why so difficult? I don't know much about the type, but a
glance at Piggott's "Gliding Safety" shows him saying nice things about
the glider and not having any warnings about nasty habits.
On a slightly different subject: I find this tendency to require a certain
number of hours AND a certain number of flights for various ratings most
annoying. In particular when the number of flights is higher than the
number of hours. Why bother quoting a number of hours at all, since
that is most unlikely to be the mark reached last?
I don't think I am unusual in this regard. I currently have 141 hours PIC
in 139 flights, and this one hour per flight average has stayed pretty
constant for a long time -- my 100th flight PIC, for instance also brought
up 100 hours PIC. If you take out the rather large amount of 2-seat
flying I do taking friends for rides (more than half my PIC flights are
passenger flights), my single seat numbers are 93 hours in 67 flights,
for an average of 83 minutes per flight. And friends who have their
own gliders, rather than flying club machines (with a 90 minute limit on
each flight if others are waiting), seem to average closer to three hours
per flight.
At that rate, your club could require 300 to 500 hours PIC before letting
people fly the Pegasus. Which is absurd.
-- Bruce
P.J....@massey.ac.nz
Bruce Hoult <Br...@hoult.actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
>
>On a slightly different subject: I find this tendency to require a certain
>number of hours AND a certain number of flights for various ratings most
>annoying. In particular when the number of flights is higher than the
>number of hours. Why bother quoting a number of hours at all, since
>that is most unlikely to be the mark reached last?
>
>I don't think I am unusual in this regard. I currently have 141 hours PIC
>in 139 flights, and this one hour per flight average has stayed pretty
>constant for a long time -- my 100th flight PIC, for instance also brought
>up 100 hours PIC. If you take out the rather large amount of 2-seat
>flying I do taking friends for rides (more than half my PIC flights are
>passenger flights), my single seat numbers are 93 hours in 67 flights,
>for an average of 83 minutes per flight. And friends who have their
>own gliders, rather than flying club machines (with a 90 minute limit on
>each flight if others are waiting), seem to average closer to three hours
>per flight.
>
That's not a bad average Bruce, but we can't all do that. My average is
less than 30 minutes per flight. That is due to learning at a winch site
and flying at a site where soaring is often difficult.
Perhaps the number of takeoffs and landings is more important than the
number of hours flown? After all, most gliders are fine in the air,
even if you're a bit sloppy, but getting it right is a bit more
critical near the ground.
My club has a minimum of 15 flights in the Libelle before taking
it cross country. There is no minimum hours requirement. I guess
that's because what's really important is being able to land
the thing.
----
Philip Plane
Toby Wright
> > Can anyone on the net offer comments on the following:
It should look good at 300hrs ! ;) Thats only 3 seasons at the most
surely ?
> > (2) Maintenance/rigging quirks and general upkeep issues; and
The Pegase is basically an improved ASW19, and as such rigs in the same
way as 19's and 20's. When Centrair were building asw20f in the 80's
they came up with their own 'new' glider. On close inspection it is
too close to a 19/20 hybrid for it have happened by chance. (my opinion
honest !)
Rigging then is of the 2 pin variety, the latest 'Pegase 90' has self
connect controls, and a much racier cockpit finish. In terms of general
upkeep, the gel appears to be better than the schliecer variety, at my
club, (the soaring centre, UK), we've a Pegase 101A from new that's now 4
years old and shows no signs of deteriation, despite being a club
glider. I doubt an asw19 would be in the same state. The only other
thing of note is that the wings are heavy for a std class glider, but
then they are all glass.
> > (3) Flight characteristics and suitability for "first glass" (I hope I don't
> > resurrect the recent LS-4 thread with the last question!).
> > Many thanks!
In terms of flying the Peg is a very easy, forgiving glider, which any well trained pilot should
find a delight to fly. (I really like it, can you tell ;) ). Controls
are well coordinated, with a high roll rate, good airbrakes and good
stall/spin characteristics. As a cross-country glider it compares
favourably with the LS4, and beats a ASW19 hands down. As you are
flying in the US with 'good' conditions, its ability to carry water is
excellent. Our club Peg is rarely flown without 2 barrels on board, and
this water seems to improve the handling even more.
> Our club is requiring 100 hrs TT PIC and 200 takeoffs/landings PIC before
> checkout. I transitioned from a Grob 103 and don't really have any
As an aside, my club requires 50hrs P1 and to have passed certain check
rides, however this is more a comment on the cost of the glider as a
club ship than its actual handling.
> Two minor things that I don't like: the trim system and the brakes
Well the trimmer is the same as ASW19, 20 and very similiar to the
Discus, or at least our club Discus.
Basically the Peg is an excellent glider for the money, and as long as
the price is about right you shouldn't be disappointed.
Toby Wright \ /
\ / I'd rather be soaring, SHK style
\/\/ But I sold it for a Nimbus :)
-----------------------------------(__)-----------------------------------
John Cochrane
>FYI: We had a directive around here that all Hotellier fittings had to be
>replaced.
I think it was to do with several accidents in which the assembler
>had mistakenly believed the connector was locked when it was not. I would
>advice any of you flying with these to take a bit of extra care to make
>sure they are indeed locked and check with someone in the know whether or
>not to replace them.
We have had several such accidents in the US (not in Pegasi),
but no AD to replace
Hotellier fittings in a Pegasus that I know of (I own a 101B).
>The
>rod, once connected, was locked in place by a 'rotating triangle' (rather
>than the familiar sliding wedge type).
My Pegasus has sliding wedges. Pegasus owners in my area (as well as others)
have started
using safeties on all Hotellier fittings, and there was a recent article
in Soaring reminding us to check for wear during annual inspections.
John Cochrane
john.c...@gsb.uchicago.edu
Sion Beard
>
>
> My club has a minimum of 15 flights in the Libelle before taking
> it cross country. There is no minimum hours requirement. I guess
> that's because what's really important is being able to land
> the thing.
Well this is quite an interesting subject!! How many hours do you
guys have to do at various clubs before you are allowed to fly a
passenger? Also how many hours in the training craft do you need
to fly solo before they let you loose on single seaters?
When you are passenger rated, is it from the front seat. back seat
or what ? be interesting to hear ..........
Regards
SION
Daniel J. Dunkel
: ......Also how many hours in the training craft do you need
: to fly solo before they let you loose on single seaters?
I consider myself lucky. My instructor transitioned me from a ASK-21 to a
Pegasus on my 5th solo flight. Later, I had to transition back to the
ASK-21 to get ready for my license check ride. I found accumulating the
required flight time for my license much more fun in the Pegasus than in
the ASK-21. (Now that I fly aerobatics and give friends rides, I
appreciate each of them for different reasons.)
I found the transition fairly easy. At that stage in my training, I found
there were only four differences--from a skills point of view.
1) The wheel brake is almost useless. Since then, I have flown 9
different types of gliders. The brake on the Pegasus is the worst. This
has been true of each of the 3 Pegasuses [what the h.ll is the plural of
'Pegasus'?] that I have flown. This makes landing precision even more
important.
2) On take off, until the airspeed picks up, the left wing will drop
(because of tow-plane prop wash) much more readily than does the ASK-21.
3) The CG hook on the Pegasus causes it to weather-vane in cross-wind
takeoffs much more readily than does the ASK-21. It is also quite
unstable in the initial part of tail-wind takeoffs. This can be quite
unsettling to low-time pilots.
4) Of course, you have to remember to lower the wheel before landing!
Again, I consider myself lucky to have had a chance to transition to the
Pegasus early. I think that it made me a better pilot to not become
dependent on the characteristics of only one glider type.
_______
Daniel J. Dunkel (Dan) | Home: (510) 933-3449
Walnut Creek, CA /O\ Work: (510) 748-5244
_________________________________| o |________________________________
\_/ Ask me about Soaring!
Howard Petri
> chib...@ibmmail.com
> John Cochrane
> john.c...@gsb.uchicago.edu
>
I have had a Pegasus 101AP since 1991. There is no AD on the
fittings as yet. I safety mine as the others. I use what is called a
hairpin safety which I found at the local hardware store. I tie them on
to the push rods with a string so I don't lose them by dropping them.
They can easily be inserted blindly by feel. I use a safety pin type
safety on the elevator. No problems so far.
Howard Petri
Pegasus (EJ)
Holger Wentscher
>kw...@apple.com (Ken E. Ward) writes:
>> Our club is requiring 100 hrs TT PIC and 200 takeoffs/landings PIC before
>> checkout. [in the Pegasus]
>
>That seems like a lot.
I agree.
Consider the check out policy of most of the german Akafliegs. Their
members are all university students (as soon as you graduate you are
out and have to join a normal club) and therefore more or less low time pilots.
Nevertheless these guys fly the prototype aircraft like SB10, SB13, FS29,
Mue 27 with spans up to 29 meters and all the toys like Fowler flaps or drag
parachutes.
Seems to me that there must be more than simply hours and
flights that indicates the ability of a pilot to fly a certain glider.
Regards,
Holger
--
___________________________________________________________________________
Holger Wentscher holger.w...@dlr.de
DLR Oberpfaffenhofen fk...@vm.op.dlr.de
___________________________________________________________________________
Bruce Hoult
> P.J....@massey.ac.nz wrote:
> > My club has a minimum of 15 flights in the Libelle before taking
> > it cross country. There is no minimum hours requirement. I guess
> > that's because what's really important is being able to land
> > the thing.
>
> Well this is quite an interesting subject!! How many hours do you
> guys have to do at various clubs before you are allowed to fly a
> passenger?
The NZGA rules say 40 hours PIC minimum before a passenger rating.
> Also how many hours in the training craft do you need
> to fly solo before they let you loose on single seaters?
When I started at Wellington Gliding Club, you required 15 hours solo
in the Blaniks before moving on to the Club Libelle. By the time I got
to that stage, they had bought a Ka6CR which they let people loose in
with 5 hours PIC. The Club Libelle still requires 15 hours PIC, but
it's vastly easier to get there in the K6 :-)
> When you are passenger rated, is it from the front seat. back seat
> or what ? be interesting to hear ..........
Front seat only. There is a back seat passenger rating which requires
200 hours PIC. It seems to be rare for people to have back seat ratings,
as you tend to get asked to be an instructor by then.
-- Bruce
Martin Hoehle
: they came up with their own 'new' glider. On close inspection it is
: too close to a 19/20 hybrid for it have happened by chance. (my opinion
: honest !)
The Pegasus IS an ASW20F without flaps. The only difference is in the
airfoil, which they claim to have invented, but i'd bet that there is a
strange similarity to the 20's Wortmann airfoils...
: Rigging then is of the 2 pin variety, the latest 'Pegase 90' has self
: connect controls, and a much racier cockpit finish. In terms of general
: upkeep, the gel appears to be better than the schliecer variety, at my
: club, (the soaring centre, UK), we've a Pegase 101A from new that's now 4
: years old and shows no signs of deteriation, despite being a club
: glider. I doubt an asw19 would be in the same state. The only other
: thing of note is that the wings are heavy for a std class glider, but
: then they are all glass.
In our club we have two Peg. 90's and their empty weight is 264 and 265kg !
I think that's a bit too much for a standard class sailplane of the 1990's.
It seems that the gel coat is VERY thick in some places.
: Basically the Peg is an excellent glider for the money, and as long as
: the price is about right you shouldn't be disappointed.
I agree !
________________________________________________________________________
/ /
/ Martin Hoehle University of Karlsruhe, Germany /
/ eMail: ub...@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de "Powered aircraft are for KIDS !" /
/______________________________________________________________________ /