Advice on Duo Discus conversions needed
Gary Brasher
our club have purchased a Duo Discus which will arrive in just over a month.
We wish to ask those who have experience of the Duo Discus in a club
environment what they believe as to pilot minimum requirements and maybe
general comments for:
solo flight.
dual flight.
cross country.
Many thanks,
Gary Brasher
Gliding Club of Victoria - Benalla Australia.
Al Eddie
How very fortunate for your club to have the opportunity
to own what is, in my view, the best 2-seat glider
on the market. I have about 200 hours on type, and
I am part of the syndicate that operates Duo-Discus
'3D' at Aboyne in Scotland.
To answer your questions about what level to ptich
various authorisations, may I suggest that, as the
Duo is a training aircraft, they should not be any
greater than for whatever intermediate single seaters
you have in the fleet.
Before solo clearance, pilots should demonstrate competence
in speed/airbrake management on the approach and flare
- although the Duo handles like a fighter, it is easy
to forget that it is a big glider and carries a lot
of energy and it is in this last phase of flight where
it is easy to get it all wrong.
Most instructors of modest experience can be cleared
fairly quickly to fly and teach in it. But for teaching
cross country, I would suggest a minimum of Gold with
250-300 hours and in current x-country practice. That
would be acceptable for most x-country training.
Hope that is helpful, feel free to contact me direct
for any other info. I look forward to meeting you sometime
in the future - I haven't had a gliding holiday in
OZ yet, but it is on the cards....
Al
Catherine Conway
Waikerie have one of these - it might be worth talking to Mark Morgan about
their experiences.
-Cath
Adelaide Uni Gliding Club
BAToulson
writes:
>We wish to ask those who have experience of the Duo Discus in a club
>environment what they believe as to pilot minimum requirements and maybe
>general comments for:
>
> solo flight.
> dual flight.
> cross country.
Very simple. Just learn to fly the glider! Apart from having airbrakes which
are less effective than some other gliders now available, the Duo has no vices.
Treat it just like any other glider. If your pupils can fly your IS28's they
can easily convert to the Duo.
Barney
Lincolnshire
UK
Luke Dodd
Club has imposed a 300 hour min pilot experience. I have flown the
glider a few times and it is a delight to fly. Its amazing flying a
two seater that out performs the single seaters I have flown.
Airbrakes are not super effective so speed control is very important
on final. Even 5 knots too fast can add significantly to the distance
covered during the flare and ground roll. You have an LD better than
alot of single seaters with nearly twice the mass, hence dispating
extra energy is difficult. Important for paddock landings.
It will spin, however after about half a turn the spin starts to turn
into a spiral dive.
Roll rate is great for 20metere span.
Its a great machine and a real asset to the Club. The CFI of Kingaroy
would be the man to talk to. I am sure he wouldn't mind chatting to
you.
regards Luke Dodd
Andreas Maurer
wrote:
>The Kingaroy Gliding Club has a Duo-Discus about 200 hours old. The
>Club has imposed a 300 hour min pilot experience.
Typical case of flag-ship syndrome, I think. ;)
My club has got a DG-505 (which is comparable). Required hours: 50 and
at least 10 hours on DG-300 (which can be flown with 40 hours total
after ASK-21 and Ka-8).
Apart from its mediocre airbrakes, the Duo-DIscus is as easy to fly as
any single-place glass glider. Given the fact that it carries a second
place for an instructor, there's no cause to set the rquirement that
high.
Bye
Andreas
Al Eddie
>Apart from its mediocre airbrakes, the Duo-DIscus is
>as easy to fly as
>any single-place glass glider.
>
Where do people get the idea that the Duo-Discus has
'mediocre' or 'inadequate' airbrakes?
The Duo-Discus airbrakes are more than adequate for
a glider of its size. The problem for pilots new to
type is getting the balance between approach attitude
(speed), and rate of descent (airbrake), correct -
just like any other glider. It isn't easy at first
but with practice, like everything else, it shouldn't
be a problem even to pilots of modest experience.
If anyone is unsure about the handling qualities of
the Duo-Discus, please feel free to get in touch with
me direct and keep these ill-advised comments away
from this group.
Al
Dave Nadler
The spoilers are just fine, more than adequate, but they are
"Spoilers" and not "Brakes". I'm surprised by the comments
that they are inadequate, as they're better than many gliders
and pattern speed control is super-easy in this glider.
If somebody messes up and arrives at the ground too fast,
it has a disk brake (imagine, a glider with a wheel brake).
I'd avoid tail-first landings because its a BIG glider
with a small unsprung tailwheel, normally I two-point it.
The Duo is an all-around gentle giant, anybody can fly.
I took a ride a few weeks ago for her first small aircraft
ride, and had her doing turns to a heading, then thermalling,
then most of the flying on a short XC on her first flight,
and doing all with reasonable coordination. The only easier
intro machine is the ASK-21.
Your decisions regarding who can take the Duo XC may be
more dictated by its cost than its handling, really...
Hope to fly with you again one of these days,
Best Regards, Dave
"Gary Brasher" <icf...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:3ba0...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
Geir Raudsandmoen
an aircraft is not based on how difficult/complex/demanding
it is to fly, but on how expensive it is to crash.See also George Moffat: Winning on the Wind, first
chapter.GeirAt 23:20 13 September 2001, Luke Dodd wrote:>The Kingaroy Gliding Club has a Duo-Discus about 200
>hours old. The>Club has imposed a 300 hour min pilot experience. I
Jean Richard
>
> The Duo is an all-around gentle giant, anybody can fly.
> (...)
> The only easier intro machine is the ASK-21.
I came to the same conclusion.
Bruce Hoult
<REMOVE_TO_RE...@lineone.net> wrote:
> At 11:08 14 September 2001, Andreas Maurer wrote:
>
> >Apart from its mediocre airbrakes, the Duo-DIscus is
> >as easy to fly as
> >any single-place glass glider.
> >
>
> Where do people get the idea that the Duo-Discus has
> 'mediocre' or 'inadequate' airbrakes?
>
> The Duo-Discus airbrakes are more than adequate for
> a glider of its size.
I've never heard this said before, but on my one flight so far in a Duo
I *was* surprised at how ineffective the brakes were and ended up
needing full brake for an uncomfortable amount of time. Not that there
was any real danger -- in the end I got it to the threshold at the right
speed for a short landing -- but I was surprised.
And it's not that I'm unused to similar gliders. I fly a Janus a lot
and did what would be a quite normal approach in the Janus -- which is
every bit as big and heavy as the Duo and has just as high an L/D.
The difference, obviously, is that the Janus has flaps. The Janus
airbrakes *themselves* are probably a little weaker than the Duo's, but
add in landing flap and it really comes down. I would therefore have
expected the Duo to have considerably better brakes than the Janus. It
didn't seem to.
I also fly Grob twins, which also have lots and lots of mass, and no
flaps. But the brakes are excellent.
-- Bruce
Duane Eisenbeiss
DuoDiscus are not effective. I have many flights in a DuoDiscus and the
spoilers effectiveness seem similar to my single place Discus. I have not
bothered to measure the spoiler effectiveness on the Duo, But on the Discus
B it is about 1800 ft/min at 65 kts. And like I stated, the Duo seems
similar. A normal approach sink would be more like 500 ft/min. By the way,
the Duo manual states the it will do a 6 to 1 glide ratio with full
spoilers. Just what kind of an approach do the dissenters want ?
Duane
Marc Ramsey
many flights in the DuoDiscus, and regard the spoilers
as relatively ineffective (and alter my approaches
accordingly). Energy management is important. With
two aboard it is a large, heavy, slippery glider which
can use a lot of runway if you don't plan your approach
properly. Not a problem with practice, but I most
certainly would not attempt to get into some of the
fields I've managed in the past with my DG-303, for
example.
I respect your opinion, mine is simply different.
_____________________________
Marc Ramsey, ma...@ranlog.com
http://www.ranlog.com/ramsey/
Jjglider
>Different strokes for different folks. I, too, have
>many flights in the DuoDiscus, and regard the spoilers
>as relatively ineffective (and alter my approaches
>accordingly). Energy managem
Yo Marc,
Could it be just a matter of wing loading? With two guys in our ASH-25, we
are coming over the fence with 50 knots or so (it's like landing with a full
load of water) The only other comment I have on the DUO is to get off the wheel
brake at the end of landing roll, or she will come over on the nose, then stop
and the tail will drop rather hard.
JJ
John Cochrane
The duo is a very nice easy to fly glider. But it is different from single seat
gliders like the Discus, it is quite different from low wingloading and low
performance trainers, and it's worth pointing out the differences to a pilot
transitioning to the glider.
The glider is heavier, and the wingloading is higher. I think this is what
translates to the impression of "ineffective brakes" which Duane Eisenbeiss nicely
pointed out just isn't true. You'll get as steep an approach as you like, but there
will be more energy to dissipate. If you jam the brakes open without changing
attitude, the glider won't slow down as fast as a lighter glider.
The wings are longer and heavier, with more mass farther out, so roll and yaw
initiations feel a little different. I found myself doing a bit of a yaw
oscillation on the first flight. No big deal, just something different that needs
getting used to. The bent up wingtips also give a different roll/yaw feedback from
straight-winged planes.
In the 2 duos I've flown, I have noticed that airspeed control requires a bit more
attention. You can look down and find yourself thermaling at 55 if you're not
paying attention. This may reflect great performance and a quiet cockpit too. I
haven't experimented with c.g. to see how this changes. Again, once pointed out, it
clears up quickly.
John Cochrane