Glasflugel 304 Back in Production!
Wings and Wheels
We all know what a treasure was lost when Eugen Hanle passed away and when
ultimately Glasflugel went out of series production. Most of the current
design innovations we now expect in modern sailplanes actually took place
first with Glasflugel sailplanes.
HpH Ltd of the Czech Republic now owns the original molds, tooling and
production rights and is now producing the Glasflugel 304 15 meter class
sailplane in limited production. The 304 will now be called the Glasflugel
304CZ with only minor changes to the original excellent design, adding
Winglets and Carbon Fibre safety seat. The sailplane does feature very
luxurious cockpit appointments and available custom additions to the
original design as well all at an exceptionally low price, especially for
US buyers with the recent surge in US$/DM exchange rates, however current
production is limited to about 10-12 sailplanes a year to start. Price of a
NEW 304CZ is very competitive with used sailplanes like ASW20, Ventus ect..
Published L/D is 43/1 dry and 44/1 ballasted, full automatic controls
hook-up, hinged canopy/instrument panel, parallelogram control stick,
trailing edge drive brake/flap mechanism (designed by Glasflugel and used
by Schemmp-Hirth in Ventus, Mini-Nimbus ect).
Wings & Wheels is the US exclusive importer or the 304CZ and has
tentatively been assigned production numbers 5,6 and 7 which should be
available for delivery to US customers early 1998 (Feb. for 1st sailplane
and May-June for Ser#6 and 7.
The sailplane was recently featured in the German Magazine "Segelfligen"
and has received attention in "Aerokourier" and other European
publications.
If you have an interest in buying one of these sailplanes please call:
(716)664-6894 @ Wings & Wheels
thanks
tim
--
Wings and Wheels
James Tsillas
In article <01bcc846$3f1778a0$4a7ebec7@Wings> "Wings and Wheels" <wi...@madbbs.com> writes:
NEW 304CZ is very competitive with used sailplanes like ASW20, Ventus ect..
Published L/D is 43/1 dry and 44/1 ballasted, full automatic controls
hook-up, hinged canopy/instrument panel, parallelogram control stick,
trailing edge drive brake/flap mechanism (designed by Glasflugel and used
by Schemmp-Hirth in Ventus, Mini-Nimbus ect).
Sounds great! What is a parallelogram control stick? I've never heard
that term before.
thanks,
-Jim.
--
____***___
\..*...*./
\.*..../
\*...* * Jim Tsillas - Senior Software Engineer *
\**/ * Cascade Communications Corp. *
\/ * 5 Carlisle Road, Westford MA 01886 *
CASCADE
Bo Brunsgaard
Wings and Wheels <wi...@madbbs.com> wrote in article
<01bcc846$3f1778a0$4a7ebec7@Wings>...
> Price of a
> NEW 304CZ is very competitive with used sailplanes like ASW20, Ventus
ect..
Just being curious: how much does it actually cost?
Bo Brunsgaard
Std Libelle OY-XKB
Arnd Wussing
> NEW 304CZ is very competitive with used sailplanes like ASW20, Ventus
ect..
> hook-up, hinged canopy/instrument panel, parallelogram control stick,
> trailing edge drive brake/flap mechanism (designed by Glasflugel and
used
> by Schemmp-Hirth in Ventus, Mini-Nimbus ect).
>
>Sounds great! What is a parallelogram control stick? I've never heard
>that term before.
The parallelogram control stick doesn't have the usual "hinge" that most
other other gliders have (with DG being a notable exception). When you move
the stick to the front or back on a typical glider, it rotates around the
mounting point and it's angle changes in your hand. With a parallelogram
structure the control stick moves just as you are used to with the notable
exception that it's angle remains the same, the whole column moves to the
left/right or front/back. This is a comfortable arrangement which also
serves to reduce possible PIOs.
-Arnd.
Wings and Wheels
--
Wings and Wheels
James Tsillas <jts...@ccs.neu.edu> wrote in article
<JTSILLA.97...@atlas.ccs.neu.edu>...
>
> NEW 304CZ is very competitive with used sailplanes like ASW20, Ventus
ect..
> Published L/D is 43/1 dry and 44/1 ballasted, full automatic controls
> hook-up, hinged canopy/instrument panel, parallelogram control stick,
> trailing edge drive brake/flap mechanism (designed by Glasflugel and
used
> by Schemmp-Hirth in Ventus, Mini-Nimbus ect).
> Sounds great! What is a parallelogram control stick? I've never heard
> that term before.
>
This was the control column design that moves the stick fore and aft on two
bearing points rather than one so the stick essentially moves fore and aft
without the tilting of conventional control columns...supposed to reduce
pilot inputs in turbulence (PIO's)
also used in some other Glasflugel designs (I had this in my Hornet "C")
and DG gliders as well as a few others...In actuality, you don't even
notice the difference functionally but it does seem to reduce PIO's and
still moves exceptionally smoothly..
tim
>
>
Wings and Wheels
HpH Ltd of the Czech Republic now owns the original molds, tooling and
production rights and is now producing the Glasflugel 304 15 meter class
sailplane in limited production.
The 304CZ is a terrific buy and the only 15 meter (flapped) sailplane
available
NEW for under US$36,000.00
Karl-Friedrich Weber
Wings and Wheels schrieb:
when you can buy the same as a use glider for about 50% of that price.
And such a used glider will not fly worse than a new Glasfluegel.
Sorry that I do not understand that.
It is not more expensive to manufacture a sailplane with a good airfoil
as to manufacture it with an old-fashoined one. Why should you buy an
old fashoined one in 1998???
--
Always happy landings
K.-F. Weber
Karl-Friedrich Weber DG Flugzeugbau GmbH
Florastrasse 5 Im Schollengarten 20
D-33729 Bielefeld D-76646 Bruchsal
eM: k-f-...@t-online.de eM: dg-flug...@t-online.de
web-site http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de
DG Flugzeugbau - Manufacturer of DG Gliders
JHn
>> >
>Sorry to ask that, but why should you by a technology of the 1970th,
>when you can buy the same as a use glider for about 50% of that price.
>And such a used glider will not fly worse than a new Glasfluegel.
>Sorry that I do not understand that.
>It is not more expensive to manufacture a sailplane with a good airfoil
>as to manufacture it with an old-fashoined one. Why should you buy an
>old fashoined one in 1998???
>K.-F. Weber
> DG Flugzeugbau - Manufacturer of DG Gliders
Well, there are not so many used 304's available on the market and if
you find one, the prices are quite high. And a used glider is allways
a used one and new is new. You should sometime jump out of your DG and
give 304 a try. I think you would find same as the others have.
Excellent ship to handle, light, easy to assemble, very nice cockpit,
nice to fly, superb air brakes and exellent technical sollutions and
quality. I have never heard anyone say a bad word about this glider. I
just hope that the Czech's will get the manufacturing quality right.
Of course the cost of making a modern airfoil would be the same when
thinking about manufacturing. But what about the design and especially
the approval process ? Can you remember how long it took to get all
the approvals for new DG-800 ? What did it cost ? Why do you think
Cessna started manufacturing the same old models ?
304 CS will be good glider for those who want a nice plane and don't
care about the last promille of competition performance.
Regs. Jyrki in Finland
(if you want to send email to me, please remove the PS from the
beginning of my address)
Ian Johnston
Karl-Friedrich Weber (K-F-...@t-online.de) wrote:
: Wings and Wheels schrieb:
: > The 304CZ is a terrific buy and the only 15 meter (flapped) sailplane
: > available
: > NEW for under US$36,000.00
: Sorry to ask that, but why should you by a technology of the 1970th,
: when you can buy the same as a use glider for about 50% of that price.
Can you send me a list of 15m flapped gliders you have for sale at
around $18,000?
: DG Flugzeugbau - Manufacturer of DG Gliders
There are lots of reasons to choose a particular glider. After all (miaow),
people don't seem to buy DG's for their success in competitions ...
Ian
Toby Wright
CUT !!! and I wish other people would learn how to do this .. ffs
<rant> hugh colton..why dont you just quote 234 lines for a 2 line comment
!!</rant>
Karl-Friedrich Weber <K-F-...@t-online.de> wrote in article
<610tig$70i$1...@news01.btx.dtag.de>...
> >
> > >
> Sorry to ask that, but why should you by a technology of the 1970th,
> when you can buy the same as a use glider for about 50% of that price.
50% of the price ???
304's go for around 18000ukp here in the uk,,when you see them..
slight exagerattion maybe...
> And such a used glider will not fly worse than a new Glasfluegel.
true..ish...
however, 12 - 15 years of use will have some effect, on for instance..Gel
coat finish, bearings, and the overall conditon..
How much do you reckon to re-gel a glider back to as new finish ?
4 ? 5 ? or more thousand pounds ??
> Sorry that I do not understand that.
well, in principle I agree actually Karl...but..
were forgetting how lucky we are in Europe...
1st..there just arent the gliders to buy in the US and the southern
hemisphere, (thats one reason why the pw5 is so well recieved over there
and mostly dismissed in europe..).
2nd..The 304 is a an excellent all round x country machine for any club
pilot, who doesnt want 'the latest thing'..ie not going to fly in
nationals..surely making new ones available again cant be a bad thing..
3rd..and finally, maybe it might send a message to the manufactures that we
dont all need / afford (cant say want hehe ), the latest hot ship..Not so
long ago, everyone was asking why didnt schempp release the cirrus molds,
to make a cheap glider, instead of the pw5..Well, this is almost the same
thing....the chance to buy a NEW glider with performance not that far
behind the latest..
> It is not more expensive to manufacture a sailplane with a good airfoil
> as to manufacture it with an old-fashoined one. Why should you buy an
> old fashoined one in 1998???
>
No, your right, if you ignore develpment costs...so why dont manufacturers
sell the latest designs as cheap as these new 304's then ;)
Seriously, it costs say Ford about as much in labour / parts to build a
mondeo as a granada, but they dont charge the same..do they,,,,
> Karl-Friedrich Weber DG Flugzeugbau GmbH
> Florastrasse 5 Im Schollengarten 20
> D-33729 Bielefeld D-76646 Bruchsal
> eM: k-f-...@t-online.de eM: dg-flug...@t-online.de
>
> web-site http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de
>
> DG Flugzeugbau - Manufacturer of DG Gliders
>
hmm, not in the least bit associated with DG then ???
Seriously tho' .
while from a european view buying one of these 'new' 304's might seem a
little irrational, the same could be said for buying a pw5, a dg300 ? or
any other glider thats not the best in its class..When it comes down to it,
if theres a place in the market, it will sell..And if they do, thats got to
be better for the gliding movement as a whole...
personally, if i had the money, I'd consider one, well at least the
winglets...
till then I'll guess I'll have to stick with my Mini Nimbus.....
regards
Hugh D Colton
In article <01bccfdc$14011020$9417...@etlwc23pc23.ericsson.se>,
"Toby Wright" <toby....@ericsson.stuff_your_spam.com> wrote:
>CUT !!! and I wish other people would learn how to do this .. ffs
><rant> hugh colton..why dont you just quote 234 lines for a 2 line comment
>!!</rant>
Please translate.
Am I in the shit or not?
Hugh
Get the best of the south at
http://www.southerncorners.w1.com/southern.shtml
Toulson017
In article <612pkv$8...@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com>, Hugh D Colton
<hugh...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>>CUT !!! and I wish other people would learn how to do this .. ffs
>><rant> hugh colton..why dont you just quote 234 lines for a 2 line comment
>>!!</rant>
>
>Please translate.
>
>Am I in the shit or not?
>
>Hugh
I also have a problem understanding Toby and I've known him for years!!!!!
Barney Toulson
Robert Danewid
Karl-Friedrich Weber wrote:
> Sorry to ask that, but why should you by a technology of the 1970th,
> when you can buy the same as a use glider for about 50% of that price.
> And such a used glider will not fly worse than a new Glasfluegel.
> Sorry that I do not understand that.
> It is not more expensive to manufacture a sailplane with a good airfoil=
> as to manufacture it with an old-fashoined one. Why should you buy an
> old fashoined one in 1998???
Karl-Friedrich
I have owned an original Glasfl=FCgel 304 since 1987, S/N 27 - I know why=
!
The best glider ever built, most comfortable cockpit ever built, nice
flying characteristics, good performance (a little less than the DG-800,
Ventus etc)..... =
I can go on!
Sorry Karl-Friedrich, your DG-gliders are really good, but you still
have not build one to the standards set by the Glasfl=FCgel 304. Life is
more than L/D!
Best Regards
Robert Danewid
H304 NS
Peter and Penny Russell
Robert Danewid wrote:
>
> Karl-Friedrich Weber wrote:
>
> > Sorry to ask that, but why should you by a technology of the 1970th,
> > when you can buy the same as a use glider for about 50% of that price.
> > And such a used glider will not fly worse than a new Glasfluegel.
> > Sorry that I do not understand that.
> > It is not more expensive to manufacture a sailplane with a good airfoil
> > old fashoined one in 1998???
>
> Karl-Friedrich
>
>
> The best glider ever built, most comfortable cockpit ever built, nice
> flying characteristics, good performance (a little less than the DG-800,
> Ventus etc).....
>
> Sorry Karl-Friedrich, your DG-gliders are really good, but you still
> more than L/D!
>
> Best Regards
>
> Robert Danewid
>
> H304 NS
I have to say as the owner of the only 304 in the United States I feel
very fortnate to own this glider and cannot imagine selling it to buy a
higher performance machine the features of this glider make it much more
valuable than many other gliders on the market, automatic control hookup
(I dont know why this is not standard on all gliders today) cockpit
comfort(it's like geting in the bathtub), handling qualities(very easy to
fly well) to name a few of the things that make this a special glider to
own. As for the performance do you really want to spend 50 thousand more
to get 2 or 3 more points of preformance? I think that the pleasant
handling of this glider more than make up for the diffrence of a few
points of preformance.
Pete Russell
Sage Variometers
N1304T
SV1
Wings and Wheels
--
Wings and Wheels
Karl-Friedrich Weber
DG Flugzeugbau - Manufacturer of DG Gliders<K-F-...@t-online.de> wrote in
article <610tig$70i$1...@news01.btx.dtag.de>...
> Wings and Wheels schrieb:
> >
> > HpH Ltd of the Czech Republic now owns the original molds, tooling and
> > production rights and is now producing the Glasflugel 304 15 meter
class
> > sailplane in limited production.
> > The 304CZ is a terrific buy and the only 15 meter (flapped) sailplane
> > available
> > NEW for under US$36,000.00
> Sorry to ask that, but why should you by a technology of the 1970th,
> when you can buy the same as a use glider for about 50% of that price.
> And such a used glider will not fly worse than a new Glasfluegel.
> Sorry that I do not understand that.
> It is not more expensive to manufacture a sailplane with a good airfoil
> as to manufacture it with an old-fashoined one. Why should you buy an
> old fashoined one in 1998???
Technology of the 1970's?? I don't think so...let's be realistic, the 304
never entered production until 1980's, and granted, it's now the 90's, but
most of the world is still happily flying 70's and 80's technology as they
cannot afford equivalent 90's technology.........and besides, the airfoil
on the 304 was never a "Bad" airfoil, the glider just had misfortunes with
the loss of the company and it's master....
I do believe Glaser Dirks did cop a lot of Mr. Hanles innovations....
What Flapped 15 meter glider do you have for under DM65,000 ? and just how
competitive is your glider....or is this even the question?
I certainly would not nock any DG glider.....They have a good reputation
and a special following, but, DG buyers buy these sailplanes NOT because
they are the fastest ships out there regardless of what airfoil was
"designed" for them...They buy them because they Like the DG glider....it
looks pretty....it flies nicely....and is well made...
JUST like the Glasflugel 304....
AND......Please keep in mind.....I will buy ALL of your Used Gliders at 50%
of this price (US$18,000.00) with this same (43-44/1 LD) even if it is a
bit tired.....
You may start shipping these to me tomorrow.......or tonight if you're
ready!
Thanks for your interest!
(did you want me to send you an order blank?) :))
tim
Toby
Hugh D Colton wrote in message <612pkv$8...@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com>...
>In article <01bccfdc$14011020$9417...@etlwc23pc23.ericsson.se>,
> "Toby Wright" <toby....@ericsson.stuff_your_spam.com> wrote:
>
>>CUT !!! and I wish other people would learn how to do this .. ffs
>><rant> hugh colton..why dont you just quote 234 lines for a 2 line comment
>>!!</rant>
>
>Please translate.
>
>Am I in the shit or not?
>
>Hugh
Hugh, of course not !! But....
As I said in my comment, ( ok so maybe I didn't choose the best way of
expressing myself, I was trying to give you a friendly hint..) ..
In that particular posting, you quoted 234 lines of somebody else's posting,
just to say...
yep, I agree'..
Now, I'm sure if you think about this, its just a bit on the wasteful side..
Unfortunately, the majority of readers of this group, dont have the luxury
of free local calls, or of access from work.. As a result we pay by the
minute to download our news, mail etc..
We are paying twice to receive the message you posted, because 234 of your
236 lines were posted previously in the thread....
Now, obviously if this was a one off, then thats fair enough, but..it seems
to be becoming prevalent in this group.. ( and I wasn't trying to pick on
Hugh, sorry if it seemed that way )
So, what I was trying to say, in my garbled way was..
Please, if you reply to a posting, try and edit what you quote to a minimum,
just what is needed to make your posting intelligible.
thanks
toby..
From home this time..thus the address