ASH-26/31Mi owners group?

[John Johnson]

I'm purchasing a ASH-31Mi and furiously trying to absorb as much as I can before visiting Williams for training and MG endorsement. I heard there was a -26/31 google group but the GG "ASH-26E" link didn't work for me. Is there a relevant owners group for AS MG's?

I got through the POH and starting in now on Eric's great guide. Hoping to find a source to tap into -26/31 owner insights.

thx, JJ

[Craig Reinholt]

John,
Contact Tom Serkowski (or Eric Greenwell?) for access to the Schleicher motorglider google group.
https://groups.google.com/g/ash-26e

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

Please contact them, at the Motorglider hang out. Old Bob, The Purist

[John Johnson]

Tom got me signed up - thanks!

[John Johnson]

So Bob, I've only been at this gliding thing a short while and have read your purist posts with a mixture of amusement and sympathetic support. In my hang gliding days, I was that hard core purist. I could not stand ultralights (still don't like them). In fact, I even scoffed at launching with a truck-mounted payout winch (and don't get me started with ultralight tug aerotows). I was of the view that you had to pay your dues by 4-wheeling up a mountain in the back of an over-loaded pickup bed hanging on for dear life through the dust and battering on the way to a marginal downwind foot launch plunge off a cliff. I did eventually sample alternate launch methods and grudgingly admit there was some fun there. But I have never once piloted anything with a motor. The -31 (or rather Rex's -32) will be my first.

So, this -31Mi was a dang difficult decision for me and I still harbor concerns that it was a good decision. For goodness sakes - I just realized I now need to buy a noise blocking headset - WHAT? Not only have I abandoned any purist pretense, but now I find myself in the indefensible position of defending MG's against claims of unfair advantage. I've gone to the dark side and soon my hands will smell like oil and avgas. May God have mercy on my soul.

JJ

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

JJ, please don't take this the wrong way, but the motorglider pilot kinds of reminds me of the transsexual swimmer from Penn, just ain't what it should be! You like myself, have been doing this gig for quiet some time, contrary to Uncle Tom's claim that I don't know much about motorgliders, you may be quiet surprised. I certainly understand your reluctance to cross over the line, the smell of oil and avgas is really a nasty combination. Bose makes a great headset, get one quick and get some Febreeze air freshener for the motorglider. Most of my friends are going to the dark side, yet I am saving big bucks on Christmas and holiday cards, they are off the list.
I am thinking about writing a book about, "Motorglider Syndrome", I should be very interesting at the conclusions that I may draw. Now JJ, if you are ever in Florida, please be my guest, you can fly that contraption off my strip at home, we will have great dinners and after flight refreshments, I might even introduce you to Gov. DeSantis.
If you see Rex and Noel please tell them that I have blessed you decision to go to the dark side, and the Eileen, AKA, Aunt Cathy and I will be out west soon and will stop in and say hello maybe Eileen will fly there again. OBTP

[Eric Greenwell]

On 7/19/2022 1:47 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> I certainly understand your reluctance to cross over the line, the smell of oil and avgas is really a nasty combination. Bose makes a great headset, get one quick and get some Febreeze air freshener for the motorglider.

Ahh, you are just making that up! Your nose is so full of oil and avgas from flying tow
planes, you'd never be able to smell the few molecules that might show up in a motorglider
cockpit. The engine and fuel are _behind_ the pilot on a motorglider, so the only gas odor
comes from the pilot (depending on his lunch).

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

Eric, just the other day I opened a trailer with a very nice motorglider in it, I was almost taken down by the fumes, it smelled like an oil tanker from Kuwait. I know that you MG guys are in denial, but really, glad someone did not strike a match it would have blown up like the Hoover Dam.
On another note I have been given some top secret information about one of our PURIST guys from out west going over to the dark side, I certainly hope that my info is not validated. OBTP

[2G]

The greatest hypocrisy of all comes from someone who calls himself a "purist" as he cranks up his 230hp Pawnee. At sea level it only takes about a half gallon of gas per launch in my 31Mi - how much do you burn in that Pawnee? And, while you're at it, how is the search for a new airstrip going? I can take my 31Mi to ANY public use airport and fly (within reason - Seatac would not want me there, and I wouldn't want to be there).
,
John, you made an excellent choice in buying the 31Mi, and will enjoy the hell out of it. My only complaint is that I can't seem to help but to get some oil on my hands when refilling the oil reservoir. But that is a tiny price to pay for independence. Refueling is a dream if you got the automatic refueling pump option.

If you haven't purchased your ground support equipment yet contact me privately for some advice.

Tom

[Eric Greenwell]

There should be no oil or gas odor in the motorglider trailer, any more than there would
be an oil and gas odor in a hangar with an airplane, or a car in a garage. A stench in any
case is an indication of a leakage or spillage problem, and the owner should be informed
about it immediately, before there is an accident.

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

Ok dumbass, my Pawnee is not 230 hp, once again you do not know what you are talking about. That Pawnee, AKA, Towpecker, makes many more people happier than you do! The new strip is going just fine, I put my money where my mouth is, no wonder Seatac doesn't want you there , your reputation precedes your appearance. OBTP

[Dan Marotta]

I use rubber gloves when fueling my Stemme and my gyro. No gas smell on
my hands, just from my shirt and pants from all the spillage...

Dan
5J

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

I really like to get things rolling here again, it has been so boring with the sailplanes on Mars post. What we need is Fitch back, I will forgive him on the 60 day go straight to jail sentence, kind of like a directed verdict from the bench! Come on guys, "Let's Get Ready To Rumble"! Old Bob, THE PURIST!

[2G]

LOL! Then WHAT is it, Peckerhead? And HOW MUCH gas do you use on a glider launch? You SHOULD know this...

[Frank Whiteley]

On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 6:49:26 AM UTC-6, AS wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 10:27:00 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 4:14:07 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 6:57:46 AM UTC-4, stephen.s...@gmail.com wrote:

> > > > On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 10:01:49 PM UTC-4, John Johnson wrote:
> > > > > > JJ, please don't take this the wrong way, but the motorglider pilot kinds of reminds me of the transsexual swimmer from Penn

> > > > > I can't take that the wrong way - its damn funny and kinda fits :-) I think I'd enjoy having a beer or 3 with you, Bob.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'll never argue against a rigorous purist vs MG debate. I see both sides and, frankly learned a lot from the sometimes heated arguments I've read here. I guess that makes me an independent (which is a tough path for a conservative in AZ these days).
> > > > >
> > > > > JJ
> > > > A purist would have hiked up that mountain, and not taken the ride in the bed of the pickup. In buying the MG you were simply coming out of the closet.
> > > We must jive JJ a break on hitching a ride to the top of the mountain, with that in mind it gave him much more flying time. I do have respect for the hang glider guy and gals, when they come on over to the pure glider they seem to do very well, they do know something about thermaling and finding lift. Unfortunately we don't have mountains in south Florida and they do use a ultralight tug for towing. They have some type of camp or commune up near Seminole Lake, I have spotted them on a couple of flights pretty far down south from there.
> > > I never miss the opportunity to poke the MG owners a bit, some of them have very thin skin and go ballistic at the remarks, while the good guys just laugh and throw a few curveballs back. Now about having a beer with JJ, that would be a great event, next time I am in AZ or you in Fl, we must make that happen. OBTP
> > Hey Bob, the NOT so purist, when you use a fucking engine it doesn't matter WHERE the engine is! Now, try getting your ASW24 airborne WITHOUT an engine - that would truly be a sight to behold.
> >
> > Tom
> >> ... airborne WITHOUT an engine - that would truly be a sight to behold. <<
> Couldn't agree more! This is a sight to behold: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbRAqPxd49E
> Rare - but not impossible.
>
> Uli
> 'AS'
Not possible for Florida, though I recall a crazy discussion about building a soaring ridge across part of the UK. Maybe it was while they were looking for places to put the diggings from the chunnel.

Several years ago, Mark Z. almost had Six Flags Houston set to offer winch launches with a Duo Discus (?) as a ride concession. That's what Marc R. and Bob K. had plans to do along I-80 in California. Both might have attracted attention to soaring.

The previews of MI4 (July 2023) have glider scenes.

It would be nice to get some media coverage (beyond social media) for the WGC2024 in Uvalde.

Frank Whiteley

[AS]

Ahh - yes, FL, where the highest elevation can be measured with a roll-up tape. Can't have it all, I guess ;-)
>> ... though I recall a crazy discussion about building a soaring ridge across part of the UK. <<
There was an 'April-fools Day' article in a German aviation magazine decades ago about a proposed XC-soaring park in Saudi-Arabia. An aviation enthusiastic Sheik was said to plan a gas pipeline with remote controlled burners to create lift when needed while flying along that 300k or 500k triangular course.

Uli
'AS'

[jfitch]

Well, Bob, you got your wish! I happen to be anchored this evening within range of a WiFi spot run by the NPS here in Glacier Bay.

JJ - don't pay any attention to Old Bob. He has admitted to no cross country experience in motorgliders, so his opinion is as well informed as asking a 12 year old virgin for advice in bed with Marilyn Monroe. Doesn't stop him from loudly and repeatedly offering such advice though. There is a big difference between hang gliders and ultralights (and yes, I flew hang gliders for many years in the early days of them) - it is not at all comparable to Pawnee launched gliders vs self launched. The hang gliders I flew might more correctly be described as "pure", in that we ran off of a mountain with them. The "pure" gliders that Bob keeps banging on about require a Pawnee to launch them, and a Suburban to retrieve them from a field somewhere. With that kind of support infrastructure required to operate them, "pure" doesn't fit.

After flying a couple of seasons with your 31, you will have to come back here and tell us how your flying has changed. I'll wager it will be in none of the "conclusions" that Bob is writing in his new book.

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

Fitch, I was beginning to get worried about you, your absence, had me on pins and needles! Please refrain from dumping your black water into the bay, I certainly know how nasty you motorglider guys are and please don't kill the whales. Now there you go trying to poison JJ about us dedicated PURIST, he seems to have a better understanding of the purist aspect than most.
Anyway, it is good to see you making a post and I am relieved that you are safe and sound. I guess you will be heading back to that liberal infested area of Washington soon, safe travels and try not to trick your logger on the way home. Your favorite adversary, Old Bob, The Purist.

[2G]

LOL! Notice that Old Bob The Hypocrite doesn't refute a single one of Jon's points; he either nitpicks (his Pawnee is 235hp instead 230) or just resorts to personal attacks. Hey Bobby, have you EVER landed your 24 out? If so, how FAR from the airport was it? I don't expect that you will answer these questions, however.

Tom

[Eric Greenwell]

On 7/22/2022 8:08 AM, 2G wrote:
>>
>> Anyway, it is good to see you making a post and I am relieved that you are safe and sound. I guess you will be heading back to that liberal infested area of Washington soon, safe travels and try not to trick your logger on the way home. Your favorite adversary, Old Bob, The Purist.
> LOL! Notice that Old Bob The Hypocrite doesn't refute a single one of Jon's points; he either nitpicks (his Pawnee is 235hp instead 230) or just resorts to personal attacks. Hey Bobby, have you EVER landed your 24 out? If so, how FAR from the airport was it? I don't expect that you will answer these questions, however.

Bob is a puzzle, for sure. He owns a very capable towplane, he knows several towpilots
that can fly it, so he could be reliably retrieved from any airport in the state. And yet,
he chooses to fly so cautiously, he always lands back at the departure airport. Usually,
pilots with a good retrieve system will "stretch their wings" ocasionally: flying farther
or longer, heading into an area where the soaring may not as reliable, or staying with the
good soaring even as the path home begins to stablize. But that's not Bob. Surely, even a
purist remains pure if they land somewhere beside the start?

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

Eric, I wish that I knew more tow pilots that could get me in the air, this old buzzard does way too much towing and at my age I would rather be flying my glider, but I end up towing Eileen most of the time. contrary to your beliefs I have landed out many times, once in a prison baseball yard, many more times with the greatest landout pilot of all time, E9, we both landed out in places within the Everglades that would really amaze you. Cautiously is not in my vocabulary, I do pretty dang good in this swamp laden alligator and snake infested peninsular. Once I landed on a road to a place called Shark River Valley, even Alfonso gave me a A+ on that one.
Now I had my purist investigator at Ely and upon his return I asked him if he had met you and he told me that you unlike Richard Noggin was a very nice gentleman but you only flew once and spent the rest of the event working on your motorglider, what say you? I don't have that problem, I do not have that gasoline smelling problem with my glider and hopefully my new one will not have that either. Eric, please send me another tow pilot, Eileen can fly the King Air350, but not the Pawnee.
I will extend the invitation to you that I have extended to many others, come on down to Vero Beach, you can even stay at the ranch, FD25, enjoy our hospitality, learn something about flying gliders and I will even have you watch Fox News with me at 9pm so that you can become Fair, Balance and Unafraid! Old Bob, The Purist

[Eric Greenwell]

All those landouts are many years in the past, and that's part of the puzzle, because you
used have "purist" adventures. For years now (at least 5), though, you've always landed
back at Hibiscus, which seems contrary to your claim to be a "purist". You tell us how the
purist must accept the uncertainty of soaring flight, and that's what sets him apart from
the motorglider pilots, and makes him a better pilot and a better person. And yet, it's
obvious there is no uncertainty in the outcome of your "pure" flying, as you get home
every time (74+ flights in the last 5 years), just like a motorglider pilot.

I flew two flights at Ely, but had to stop flying when my wheel brake became too weak to
be safe. I first noticed a minor reduction in braking power during a test flight before
going to Parowan. It slowly worsened at Parowan and Ely, despite bleeding it at both
places, so I took it to Schaefer Aviation at Williams. Danny found fine grit in the
caliper and the master cylinder, plus a damaged O-ring in each unit. A rebuild and new
fluid restored it. If it had been a motor problem, I could've taken tows, but there is no
substitute for a wheel brake.

I'd love to fly with you in Florida, but it's a daunting 3700 miles from Richland to you,
and at $5/gallon for the motorhome, about $2100 just for gas - one way. We have done it
before, so maybe next year...

[Eric Greenwell]

On 7/22/2022 1:13 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
>
> I'd love to fly with you in Florida, but it's a daunting 3700 miles from Richland to you,
> and at $5/gallon for the motorhome, about $2100 just for gas - one way. We have done it
> before, so maybe next year...
>

Miscalculated: it's 3000 miles/$1670, one way.

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

You and Richard Noggin need to do better on your homework, not all of those flights resulted in me landing back at X52. You motorglider guys need to tighten up on your research, I certainly know more about you guys than you know about me! Why worry about the brakes, plan your approach accordingly, us Purist have no problem with things like that.
Well, regardless of the cost of fuel, the invitation still stands, in fact I am planning a Motorglider Safari for the future with guest privilege's being sent to Richard Noggin, Herbie, yourself and many more, I hope you all can attend. Old Bob, The Purist

[Eric Greenwell]

On 7/22/2022 2:39 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:

> You and Richard Noggin need to do better on your homework, not all of those flights resulted in me landing back at X52. You motorglider guys need to tighten up on your research, I certainly know more about you guys than you know about me! Why worry about the brakes, plan your approach accordingly, us Purist have no problem with things like that.
> Well, regardless of the cost of fuel, the invitation still stands, in fact I am planning a Motorglider Safari for the future with guest privilege's being sent to Richard Noggin, Herbie, yourself and many more, I hope you all can attend. Old Bob, The Purist

I looked at all 74 flights you've posted on the OLC since 2018. All started and ended at
Hibiscus. If I made an error, please, tell us which flights did not end at Hibiscus.

Would you fly your towplane without wheel brakes? I also taxi, so I need the brake for
that, just as you do. I also use it to ensure I turn off the runway at the correct
taxiway; often, there are other gliders on that taxiway that have just come off the
runway, and haven't had time to move their glider (almost always a "purist"; motorgliders
just fire up and taxi to their tiedown), so I need the brake to avoid hitting them. I
could, of course, do like a purist, and stop on the runway, blocking it for several
minutes until it's finally pushed off the runway :^) I hope I'm not telling you anything
you don't know!

Now this you may not know: a motorglider safari involves taking off at one airport, and
landing at a different one. Repeat for several days, until you have all arrived at the
final destination. What you've been calling a "safari", we call a "soaring camp". I'd be
more interested in a safari than a camp, though I do enjoy both. My crew likes camps that
have caterers show up with dinner in the _early_ evening (no later that 7 pm!), like the
Parowan motorglider camp - just a hint that might help you make your event more popular
than others.

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

Eric, please excuse me for the late reply but I was over on the beach having a couple of Stella's and admiring the scenery, hope you understand. Now you seem to have altered the meaning of safari, Webster never mentions motorgliders or not returning to the same point.
Now about those brakes, yes, I have flown the Pawnee with no brakes on several occasions, anyone who has flown one probably has done the same thing. I never use brakes even when I have them, seems like such a bad habit.
The girl scouts have camps, us Purist have a safari, and at the end of the day we don't have caviar brought in by some vendor we usually throw a burger on the grill and have a few cold beers, I guess you think you guys have much more class than us purist, but actually that is not the case. Caterers are for weddings and family events out west, us down south just have a BBQ or a burger on the grill, charcoal, as our purist grilling preference.
I have been concerned about Fitch, his absence was well noted, hope he gets back soon to join the festivities.
Now keep digging into the OLC flights and you might find what you are missing, I expect nothing but excellence from you.
It is getting close to Hannity time here on the East Coast, I doubt that you will be tuning in for the wisdom from the right, but there is hope for you. Take care, I enjoy the bantering, Old Bob, The Purist

[Dan Marotta]

I've done that three times: Twice with 1,000' rope ground launches and
once with a self-launcher. Each involved boxing up the glider at the
end of the day and all were great fun (except when my partner crashed
following one ground launch).

I thermaled over the meteor crater in Arizona and landed at Winslow,
though I did not "stand on the corner". I did that on a different
adventure with Tom Bjork (RIP). That was not a soaring story but still
great fun...

Dan
5J

[Dan Marotta]

Have strength, Mike. There's still a tidbit of good information on this
board if you'll only engage your fine filter. The rest is pure
entertainment. Treat it that way.

Dan
5J

On 7/23/22 00:26, Michael N. wrote:
> So having watched these ongoing R.A.S. battles of "friendly" (or not) debates on motor gliders vs "pure" gliders, flaps vs no flaps, vintage vs modern, electric vs fuel, etc, etc, etc, ad infinitum....
> I've never quite understood the need of certain individuals (you know who you are) to prove that "my opinion is the only one matters".
>
> Yet tonight I had an epiphany:
>
> Not able to sleep I decided to go to a local tavern for a nightcap. This was near closing time, and I found myself observing the people around me. Most if not all had been there for a while, in the expected state of mind of such a time of the evening.
>
> I'll give you one guess as to my observations... ;-)
>
> I saw everything between a couple of drunken friends saying "I love you bro" including a smelly wet smooch on the cheek, to "hey let's take it outside" only they were too drunk to walk out of the bar to continue what would have been a rather hilarious attempt at a fight.
>
> It was hilarious, and I just inebriated enough to bring it to your attention....
>
> For what it's worth, from now on I am reading R.A.S. after I've had a few, I think it makes more sense.... :-)
>
> Mike
>
> P.S. for those of you who are actually trying to learn or glean a bit of real and valuable information on gliding here: "I love you bro." That's why I originally joined this group. Sadly most of the shite on here ain't worth the electrons it's written on. (Admittedly I have had a few and my filters are off.)

[Mark Mocho]

>. Sadly most of the shite on here ain't worth the electrons it's written on. (Admittedly I have had a few and my filters are off.)

The only problem with drinking and trolling the Internet is that you should have a breathalyzer hooked up to your keyboard. If you blow more than .08, the "Post Message" tab won't work. Could save you a lot of grief. Ask me how I know this.

ps. Applies to email, too.

[2G]

No, Bobby, it is you that has altered the meaning:

History and Etymology for safari
Swahili, journey, from Arabic safarī of a journey

Hard to have a journey when you don't move. And your complaints about not being able to find a tow pilot was the number one reason for most of us in getting a motorglider. We had the towplane, but finding reliable tow pilots was a challenge.

Tom

[Eric Greenwell]

On 7/23/2022 7:12 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I've done that three times:  Twice with 1,000' rope ground launches and once with a
> self-launcher.  Each involved boxing up the glider at the end of the day and all were
> great fun (except when my partner crashed following one ground launch).
>
> I thermaled over the meteor crater in Arizona and landed at Winslow, though I did not
> "stand on the corner".  I did that on a different adventure with Tom Bjork (RIP).  That
> was not a soaring story but still great fun...
>
> Dan
> 5J

Now, that's what a soaring safari really is! Going to soaring operation, staying there for
while, then leaving; well, that's not even a soaring camp! Can be a lot of fun, especially
with some beer and barbecue, but it's no more a safari than going to the zoo to see the
lions is a "safari".

I offer these guidelines for "soaring safaris": The key points are traveling from place to
place, bringing your "launch system" with you, and using takeoff and landing places that
aren't soaring operation.

[Eric Greenwell]

On 7/22/2022 5:55 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:

>>
>> Now this you may not know: a motorglider safari involves taking off at one airport, and
>> landing at a different one. Repeat for several days, until you have all arrived at the
>> final destination. What you've been calling a "safari", we call a "soaring camp". I'd be
>> more interested in a safari than a camp, though I do enjoy both. My crew likes camps that
>> have caterers show up with dinner in the _early_ evening (no later that 7 pm!), like the
>> Parowan motorglider camp - just a hint that might help you make your event more popular
>> than others.
>> --
>> Eric Greenwell - USA
>> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> Eric, please excuse me for the late reply but I was over on the beach having a couple of Stella's and admiring the scenery, hope you understand. Now you seem to have altered the meaning of safari, Webster never mentions motorgliders or not returning to the same point.
> Now about those brakes, yes, I have flown the Pawnee with no brakes on several occasions, anyone who has flown one probably has done the same thing. I never use brakes even when I have them, seems like such a bad habit.
> The girl scouts have camps, us Purist have a safari, and at the end of the day we don't have caviar brought in by some vendor we usually throw a burger on the grill and have a few cold beers, I guess you think you guys have much more class than us purist, but actually that is not the case. Caterers are for weddings and family events out west, us down south just have a BBQ or a burger on the grill, charcoal, as our purist grilling preference.
> I have been concerned about Fitch, his absence was well noted, hope he gets back soon to join the festivities.
> Now keep digging into the OLC flights and you might find what you are missing, I expect nothing but excellence from you.
> It is getting close to Hannity time here on the East Coast, I doubt that you will be tuning in for the wisdom from the right, but there is hope for you. Take care, I enjoy the bantering, Old Bob, The Purist

It seems like every time you pontificate on motorgliders, you demonstrate your
unfamiliarity with them. My ASH26E keeps moving, even at idle, so a brake is required to
taxi, and to hold it during the ignition check. If there is wind, there is always the
chance the wing will flip in the other direction while taxiing, requiring rapid and firm
braking to keep the newly "down" wing from hitting something (soft dirt, a taxiway sign),
damaging the wing or turning the glider off the taxiway.

Burgers on the grill is fine for a weekend, but that would become really tiresome for a 12
day camp like the ASA Parowan motorglider event. After a few days, people would be leaving
the airport to go to restaurants for a change, or cook dinner in their motorhome, and the
camaraderie would suffer. Having one of the local restaurants bring food to a hangar at
the airport (with chairs and tables left set up for the duration), at the same time every
evening does wonders for keeping people around. And the wives love it - some one else is
doing the cooking! A few cases of two buck Chuck don't hurt, either.

I seem to have your tacit agreement that all your OLC postings (74 over 5 years) have the
landing at the departure airport, with the exception of two flights where you forgot to
turn the Nano on before takeoff. You used to have adventures like a purist, and land out
sometimes (or at least "land away"), and you can do it again. Surely, there are club
members that would be pleased to retrieve you if a tow pilot isn't available. Leave the
trailer hooked to the car and keys under the seat, and go for it the next time you fly!

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

Eric, being a Purist I never worry about the brakes, I learned long ago to never really depend on them, you should also take that approach. Now about your investigative skills, they are lacking, keep trying you might find the elusive landing that you are looking for.
Now about the PURIST dinners at TCSC, we have one almost every weekend and every day during our wonderful Safari. We do the cooking ourselves and that even makes the camaraderie even more interesting among all of us PURIST and even a few motorglider guest. We usually make sure that the motorglider folks do all the cleanup, you must watch those folks closely as they seem to be a bit on the lazy side. Even today we are having a cookout I am sure there will be a surprise on the grill other than burgers and hot dogs, some fine southern purist is sure to have some fresh gator tail or wild pig pork chops, yes, they are tough but a bit tasty.
I am sure that someday my skills and luck will catch up with me and I once again will call for Eileen to grab the trailer and rescue me from some alligator and python infested hell hole.
Next year before you go to Ely make sure that your motorglider is not broken, all that way for one day of flying is not worth it, plan for a good week of activities.
Well the sun is up here on the East Coast and I must get a few minutes of Fox News in before I depart for the glider club and tow all of those wonderful purist. We must have several young boys and girls to get in the air today, future purist! Old Bob, The Purist

[Eric Greenwell]

> Now about the PURIST dinners at TCSC, we have one almost every weekend and every day during our wonderful Safari. We do the cooking ourselves and that even makes the camaraderie even more interesting among all of us PURIST and even a few motorglider guest. We usually make sure that the motorglider folks do all the cleanup, you must watch those folks closely as they seem to be a bit on the lazy side. Even today we are having a cookout I am sure there will be a surprise on the grill other than burgers and hot dogs, some fine southern purist is sure to have some fresh gator tail or wild pig pork chops, yes, they are tough but a bit tasty.
> I am sure that someday my skills and luck will catch up with me and I once again will call for Eileen to grab the trailer and rescue me from some alligator and python infested hell hole.
> Next year before you go to Ely make sure that your motorglider is not broken, all that way for one day of flying is not worth it, plan for a good week of activities.
> Well the sun is up here on the East Coast and I must get a few minutes of Fox News in before I depart for the glider club and tow all of those wonderful purist. We must have several young boys and girls to get in the air today, future purist! Old Bob, The Purist
>

"keep trying you might find the elusive landing that you are looking for." And there it
is: the tacit agreement there is no posting showing a landing elsewhere than Hibiscus :^)

Just sayin'...my crew is much more likely to suggest we go soaring for a couple weeks at a
place where dinner is brought to us. The barbecue method can work at a place with a club
house that has good kitchen facilities, but even those can be strained when you have 40+
people show up for an event. Parowan has no facilities, Ely has some, Ephrata is great.

The ASH26E has been a tremendously reliable glider for me. During the 27 years (4200
hours) I've owned it, I've only missed flying about 10-15 days because of mechanical
problems. Most of those days lost were due to glider problems (like the brake), not motor
problems. By comparison, I lost many more flying days when I was flying towed gliders due
to towplane or towpilot problems.

[Dan Marotta]

My partner in the Cessna 180, a tow pilot and glider pilot, asked if we
could install a release and go on safari. The plan was to switch off
each day and cover the Rockies. The insurance company squashed that
idea with a resounding "NO!"

Pretty chintzy of them, if you ask me...

Dan
5J

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

Eric, you investigative skills are lacking, what do I have to do take you to the promise land? Keep looking and you will find it, even a blind man should see that one. Old Bob, The Purist

[jfitch]

Old Bob, don't worry too much about me. Back on the internet, this time due to some temporary cell coverage in Haines, AK. Not too much soaring here - it has rained for 2 weeks straight, and in any case ice fields are poor producers of thermals. I haven't killed any whales yet, they are hard to chase down in this 7 knot boat.

A primary component of any definition of "safari" is that it is an expedition, meaning going somewhere, not a cookout in the back yard. To do a soaring safari with Pawnee launched gliders requires that a Pawnee tag along the whole distance. Has been done many times of course, but is expensive and the guy driving the Pawnee has no fun. In contrast you can do a solo safari in a motorglider, we met such a person in Ely one year, had landed his trailer in New Orleans from Germany, assembled it there, and was flying his DG-800 all around the western states, about 2 months in.

Eric - I don't blame Old Bob for trying to get back to the airport in that swamp of a state. But the idea of land outs as a badge of manliness needs to be discouraged as it costs me money. Something like 40% of the sailplane landing accident claims are from off-field landings. Since these comprise only perhaps <1% of the total landings, that makes an insurance claim (paid for by premiums from you and me) 40x more likely in an off-field landing than an on-field.

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.
Yes, landing back at the start point is not a bad idea, isn't that what you big dogs are supposed to do! Anyway I did do my share of developing young Purist today and then took a hop in my neighbors BT13, now that baby sucks some fuel, 17 tows and then a hop in history was not a bad day.
Sorry about the ice up there in AK, it was certainly hot here on the Florida coast today, we are setting heat records almost everyday with very little rain for this time of the year. Eric is all consumed with this landout ordeal, he may just figure it out soon. Take care of yourself, don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste. Old Bob, The Purist

[2G]

> Sorry about the ice up there in AK, it was certainly hot here on the Florida coast today, we are setting heat records almost everyday with very little rain for this time of the year. Eric is all consumed with this landout ordeal, he may just figure it out soon. Take care of yourself, don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste. Old Bob, The Purister

Hey Bobby The Hypocrite,

You can't even admit that you were DEAD WRONG on the definition of "safari", so you continue your bloviating about being a "purist." The truth is you rarely creep out of gliding range of New Hibriscus. I have examined ALL of your OLC posted and have concluded this: your purported experience as a cross country glider pilot is a FRAUD! Your average flight distance is just 168 km - that hardly gets you out of glide distance of your home airport. The MAXIMUM flight distance you have had in 5 years is barely over 400km - that would be considered a DISASTER here at Ely. Add to that that your average speed is a paltry 36kt! This is LESS THAN stall speed!!

Bobby, you are a JOKE masquerading as a glider pilot. To be criticizing those of us that make REAL cross country glider flights is a DISGRACE! Keith Essex recently did a 1,535km flight on THERMALS ALONE, a REMARKABLE feat that you met with SILENCE. Yet, you would DISMISS that flight because he flew a MOTORGLIDER!

Bobby, I recommend that you GET A LIFE and smell the roses. You are a pathetic glider pilot who only wants to denigrate others of superior airmanship skills.

Tom

[jean-mari...@gadz.org]

Le vendredi 22 juillet 2022 à 22:13:24 UTC+2, Eric Greenwell a écrit :
> On 7/22/2022 12:06 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:

Hello my friends,
In order to have a more complete view of what can be a real safari with and without tow and other service planes, I suggest you read the 1986 Soaring Magazine article about the Andean Safari, i.e. crossing Atacama desert in Chile, in which they did not succeed to overfly the volcanoes even though making a stop in Calama.
https://topfly-aero.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/ANDEAN-ODYSSEY-Wally-Scott-1986.pdf
And then, read the article on the same website for a much successful safari in 2019 using a 25-year old self-launching motorglider also based in Calama, who could fly almost every day above the volcanoes (stones up to 20000 ft), without any help from outside, NEVER using the engine for coming back home, discovering new meteorological phenomena.
BTW, I am also a sailor, and you may remember that the use of engine for entering or leaving a port is mandatory, at least here.
All the best to all,

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

Hey Richard Noggin, or DH, you are certainly worthy of either title. Sorry that the truth about the dark side of soaring gets you so irritated, you should get a better grip on yourself, calm down and maybe take a few valium.
You are trying to bring Motorglider Wokeness, to the great activity and honestly it is not working. All of us true purist understand the motorglider gig for what it is and accept the fact that your diminished skills are obvious. Bring that old Motorglider down to Florida and we will go for a flight, you can be part of the 2023 Soaring Safari. Your best friend, Old Bob, The Purist

[Eric Greenwell]

On 7/24/2022 5:24 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:

"don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste."

"Motorboat waste"? Did you miss the part about him being on a sailboat? Check out his blog:

https://yachtanomaly.wordpress.com/about/

> Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.

Sailboats and sailplanes tend to attract the same kind of person. George Moffat was an
excellent example of someone successful at racing both types of "sailcraft". Talk about
poor research! All you had to do was look a few of Jon's OLC entries to see the motor is
used for launching, not tooling around the sky at high speed.

[Eric Greenwell]

On 7/25/2022 3:13 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 7/24/2022 5:24 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> "don't poison any wildlife with you motorboat waste."
>
> "Motorboat waste"? Did you miss the part about him being on a sailboat? Check out his blog:
>
>     https://yachtanomaly.wordpress.com/about/
>
>> Fitch, I cannot imagine a motorglider guy trucking around the North Pacific in a trawler
>> at 7 knots.I would have taken you for a Fedship guy tooling around the high seas with
>> that big MTU spilling carbon credits all over the sky.
>
> Sailboats and sailplanes tend to attract the same kind of person. George Moffat was an
> excellent example of someone successful at racing both types of "sailcraft". Talk about
> poor research! All you had to do was look a few of Jon's OLC entries to see the motor is
> used for launching, not tooling around the sky at high speed.
>

I didn't read far enough into the blog the first time, and just assumed they were in their
sailboat; apparently they are traveling in their tugboat this trip.

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

Thanks Eric, I took a look and saw only two or three flights in six years, I would have thought Fitch would have been much more active, I can only surmise that he could not get the motor started on the motorglider and no-one would give him a tow. Wish I would have had my Pawnee there I would have gladly towed the guy. Old Bob, The Purist

[Eric Greenwell]

I'm surprised, too. I just assumed he posted all his flights on OLC, but apparently not.
Here is a link to four flights this year on Flightaware for N26GJ (ADSB equipped):

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N26GJ

You can buy a listing of all his flights from FlightAware, but it's not cheap!

[jfitch]

While I do own a sailboat, I have sailed it home to SF Bay where the wind blows, and bought this little trawler for the PNW where there is rarely wind, and it rains a lot. It is the first motorboat I've ever owned. A sailboat is the wrong tool for cruising up here, sailboats are commonly called "trawlers with masts" because they spend about 99% of the time motoring. I had the sailboat here for 4 seasons before giving up and sailing it down the coast.

I rarely post on OLC, the only time I have done so was when it was the required way to submit results in a competition. I have no interest in posting to OLC. This year the only flying I've done was at the Region 11 FAI (in fact flew home interrupting the cruise to do it). Have spent the rest of the time on the boat. The trawler is not as efficient as the motorglider: I can burn <2 liters of 100LL in the ASH26Mi for launch (it is almost always the same 8 minutes tach time from start to shutoff in the first thermal) and then fly 500 miles in 6 hours. If you had a contest where the amount of fuel used for launches was limited, the motorgliders would win over the Pawnee towed gliders hands down every time.

The trawler gets about 3.7 mpg burning diesel if I keep the speed at 7 knots. It will do about 15 max, with the mpg degraded to well <1 mpg. So we go 7 knots. Last bought fuel in Ketchikan, $1200 was the bill for 1/2 tank. It isn't a cheap (or environmentally sensitive) way to travel. The sailboat is a little better on fuel, around 6 mpg if motoring (and it's 50% longer too). Of course sailing, no diesel is burnt, but it isn't free either - I just ordered a new mainsail (the last one has about 16,000 miles on it) and the price is just short of $20K. So motoring might actually be cheaper on the sailboat than sailing.

[jfitch]

I'm not sure why, but not all flights show up on FlightAware or other such websites. Seems to miss many of them, even though ADSB out is on for all.

[Eric Greenwell]

Odd, and suggests there is something amiss with your ADSB. All my Phoenix flights show up
on FlightAware. Do other ADSB gliders flying from Truckee have the same problem?

[2G]

Spoken like a true FRAUD - deflect and hope that nobody notices. Sorry, I noticed, and you didn't refute a SINGLE point I made. Hence, you AGREE!

Tom

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

Eric, you know that I certainly enjoy bantering back and forth with olé Fitch, really a worthy opponent and from all of his motorglider comments I had no idea that he was a three flight man! Like you guys say, "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not Happen". Do you think that maybe he was tweaking his data logger and screwed it up, you certainly know how those motorglider guys are.
I certainly understand his love of the seas, the wife and I stayed a lot on the water back before 2004 when hurricanes Frances and Jean pretty much destroyed the Morgan OI 51, yet getting too old these days to do that kind of thing anymore, yet still do a bit of fishing in the deep blue. Old Bob, The Purist

[Eric Greenwell]

Apparently, you missed his remarks on 7/25 at 6:23pm and 6:26pm.

I didn't originate the "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not Happen" statement, but I would
amend it to include ADSB, as more and and more gliders are equipping with it, and it
records the flight, even if the pilot forgets to turn the Nano on.

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

FAI probably will not accept ADSB, let me know if it does! You motorglider guys have a history of tricking recorders. Old Bob, The Purist

[2G]

I notice that you did not cite even a single case of that happening - not surprising coming from a fraudster.

Tom

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

Eric, I know the answer, Ole Fitch did not want anyone to know that he started his motor to get home, so he never posted the flights. Old Bob, The Purist

[Eric Greenwell]

On 7/26/2022 1:22 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:

>>>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
>>> Eric, you know that I certainly enjoy bantering back and forth with olé Fitch, really a worthy opponent and from all of his motorglider comments I had no idea that he was a three flight man! Like you guys say, "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not Happen". Do you think that maybe he was tweaking his data logger and screwed it up, you certainly know how those motorglider guys are.
>>> I certainly understand his love of the seas, the wife and I stayed a lot on the water back before 2004 when hurricanes Frances and Jean pretty much destroyed the Morgan OI 51, yet getting too old these days to do that kind of thing anymore, yet still do a bit of fishing in the deep blue. Old Bob, The Purist
>> Apparently, you missed his remarks on 7/25 at 6:23pm and 6:26pm.
>>
>> I didn't originate the "If It Is Not On OLC , It Did Not Happen" statement, but I would
>> amend it to include ADSB, as more and and more gliders are equipping with it, and it
>> records the flight, even if the pilot forgets to turn the Nano on.
>> --
>> Eric Greenwell - USA
>> - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
>> https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> FAI probably will not accept ADSB, let me know if it does! You motorglider guys have a history of tricking recorders. Old Bob, The Purist

The "If it's not on OLC..." doesn't have anything to do with the FAI, which doesn't accept
OLC for validating flights. What's your point?

[2G]

Bobby the Hypocrite's point is libel and obfuscation. He is NOT a real X-country glider pilot and only wants to demean those that are. He can't even cite a SINGLE case of an MG pilot "tricking" the flight recorder.

Tom

[jfitch]

Old Bob, you know very little about what I do and don't do. Fortunately I don't care what you (or others) might think about my flying, which is why I don't bother posting on OLC. People who know me, and fly with me, know what I do. But if you are obsessed with my flying, you can find some of these recorded in the SSA competition archives and yes, it is more than 3 flights in the last few years, and no, the motor was not used for retrieves.

You need to come out to Truckee and fly where getting home can be a challenge, then you can boast about it. Or do some cross country in a motorglider, then you could at least talk about it intelligently.

[jfitch]

Some missing flights from Truckee, and I think one at least from Williams. I can't explain why. Most flights from Truckee I am talking to Norcal Approach and they clearly see me. We are also (at Truckee) a tower controlled airport now and the tower can see me. My ADSB is a TABS install, perhaps some of the FlightAware receiving network is discounting those?

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

Fitch, I really don't care about your flights, it was Eric that told me to take a look at your flights and I would be impressed, that turned out not to be the case. Eric, was probably not aware that you were a three flight man, had he known that he would probably not used you as an example.
Some individuals do not post their flights when they land out or violate airspace, I certainly hope that was not the issue. You know back in the day, around the mid 70's to late 80's we flew most every day and never recorded a flight unless we were going for some type of flight achievement. Back around the early 80's Alfonso and I took off out of Thermal Research and crossed he everglades and flew to about where Seminole Lake is today and returned to Thermal Research after crossing the everglades again for the return home, To this day it is probably the best out and return ever for Florida, yet we had no way of proving it, so I accept the consequences of no record, no flight. Old Bob, The Purist

[Glenn Betzoldt]

Sorry Old Bob but Andy McQuigg has the longest Out & Return in the state of Florida 418 miles in 1984 and he could prove it if he was still with us..

[Eric Greenwell]

On 7/27/2022 4:36 AM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> Fitch, I really don't care about your flights, it was Eric that told me to take a look at your flights and I would be impressed, that turned out not to be the case. Eric, was probably not aware that you were a three flight man, had he known that he would probably not used you as an example.

Short-term memory lapse? I already gave you a FlightAware link showing four of Jon's
flights for 2022!

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N26GJ

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

Thanks for the correction Glenn, E9 and we did our flight in about 1981-82, I had a new 20 and Alfonso was flying Checho's 20 at the time. Ours was about 180 plus nautical miles one way, I do not recall which track Andy took.
Andy would fly with us often , seems like he had a new glider most every year. Next time you see Billy Kearns ask him how Andy got along with 41, you may get a few laughs!

[Herbert Kilian]

Folks, don't listen to the Pompous Purist, he has no clue. John Good wrote this today in his daily report from Szeged, Hungary, the location of the current Worlds for 18m, 20m two seat and Open Class.

"I checked with the contest Scoring Office today and learned that of the 82 gliders in WGC2022, just five are unmotorized (all in 18-Meter class). I understand the reasons for this: modern gliders carry weight well; modern pilots like the assurance of getting home, and have the money to pay for it. But I can’t help feeling that this seems a bit “off”. I imagine a future World Championships at which an interested but naïve spectator is a visitor. Friendly competitors are proudly showing him their aircraft, explaining that this is the world championship of motorless flight, and how in the right weather they race around 500 km tasks at 130 kph using just the sun’s energy. He’s suitably impressed, and examines one glider carefully. He’s curious about a sort of hatch on top of the fuselage, and it's opened for him.
“So, what’s this thing inside, that looks like it has a propeller attached to it?”
“That’s the engine – all the gliders here have engines.”
“But I thought you said it was a competition of motorless flight.”
“It is – but you must have an engine to be competitive.”
“You need a motor to do motorless flight?”
“Well, we hope we don’t have to use it – but you can’t realistically expect to win without one.”"

Herb (not Herbie), J7

[Eric Greenwell]

This is extraordinary thread drift! Let's start a new thread: Do you need a motor to win
competitions?"

I've started this new thread. Please continue the discussion there!