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Winglets for SZD55
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Tom and Jane Gilbert
Oct 13, 2003, 5:29:23 PM10/13/03
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Any 55 owners fitted winglets to their ships? Thoughts... comments??
Tom Gilbert
Janusz Kesik
Oct 14, 2003, 12:48:22 AM10/14/03
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I have never seen any. The wingtip shape disables use of wingtips I think, and also there's no need because tapering wingtip also reduces induced drag as the wingtip does.
Regards,
--
Janusz Kesik
janusz.kesik...@gazeta.pl
visit www.leszno.pl - home of the www.css-leszno.it.pl
Tom and Jane Gilbert
Oct 14, 2003, 5:37:44 AM10/14/03
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I have seen photos of two different types of winglets installed on the
SZD55. One I thought was a factory approved set (slightly kicked up) and
another set were large swept types (M&H??)
The 55 tends to drop a wing on take off and could use a bit more aileron
response at low speed. The winglets should help.
SZD55. One I thought was a factory approved set (slightly kicked up) and
another set were large swept types (M&H??)
The 55 tends to drop a wing on take off and could use a bit more aileron
response at low speed. The winglets should help.
Tom
"Janusz Kesik" <zielon...@zajada.dzem.int> wrote in message
news:bmfuvv$l5h$1...@inews.gazeta.pl...
SNOOP
Oct 14, 2003, 9:07:59 PM10/14/03
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>
>My eighteen year old son and I flew our 55 over 120 plus hours since
February, and yes occasionally the wing drops. I've watched the
current U.S. 15 Meter Champ (also a former SZD55 owner) in his Discus
A, drop a wing in the dirt one day at our home field. David just
popped out the spoilers, picked it up and off he went. Same thing in
the 55. No big deal.
>My eighteen year old son and I flew our 55 over 120 plus hours since
February, and yes occasionally the wing drops. I've watched the
current U.S. 15 Meter Champ (also a former SZD55 owner) in his Discus
A, drop a wing in the dirt one day at our home field. David just
popped out the spoilers, picked it up and off he went. Same thing in
the 55. No big deal.
It's a non- event. The 55 is a great ship, with a beautiful wing that
doesn't need winglets. There is a paper written by,I beleive it was
Peter Masak,here on Google, about the SZD55's construction, and it's
wing. I'll try to find it. In short, Peter said nothing but great
things about the weight and construction of this fine glider.
The dealer for the 55 is Windpath Corp. outside of Toronto, Canada.
They are doing a great job of supporting this ship. Look for them on
the internet!
SNOOP
Oct 14, 2003, 9:12:49 PM10/14/03
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"Tom and Jane Gilbert" <tnjgi...@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:<ItPib.150468$bo1.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> I have seen photos of two different types of winglets installed on the
> SZD55. One I thought was a factory approved set (slightly kicked up) and
> another set were large swept types (M&H??)
> The 55 tends to drop a wing on take off and could use a bit more aileron
> response at low speed. The winglets should help.
>
> Tom
>I found it. Just go to the Google search and type in Peter Masak
SZD55, and you'll have his comments. Cheers!
> I have seen photos of two different types of winglets installed on the
> SZD55. One I thought was a factory approved set (slightly kicked up) and
> another set were large swept types (M&H??)
> The 55 tends to drop a wing on take off and could use a bit more aileron
> response at low speed. The winglets should help.
>
> Tom
SZD55, and you'll have his comments. Cheers!
Nick Gilbert
Oct 16, 2003, 3:21:45 AM10/16/03
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Wing dropping can be a problem with part-water on board. If the wing is down
for long enough the water sloshes to the tip and the wing NEVER comes back
up!
for long enough the water sloshes to the tip and the wing NEVER comes back
up!
Nobody is questioning the performance or the construction of the glider. It
does have a wing dropping problem that could possibly be rectified with
winglets.
Regards,
Nick.
"SNOOP" <mwes...@kcc.com> wrote in message
news:62e174e1.03101...@posting.google.com...
SNOOP
Oct 16, 2003, 4:48:41 PM10/16/03
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"Nick Gilbert" <sz...@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:<dGrjb.152841$bo1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> Wing dropping can be a problem with part-water on board. If the wing is down
> for long enough the water sloshes to the tip and the wing NEVER comes back
> up!
No arguement on that point, but we have not seen it in the 55.
Various water loadings, which, actually seem to help stop the drop,
have been used. When it has dropped, it has typically popped back up
as fast as it went down, if it did drop at all. I would offer that
using the forward (chin) tost hook versus the c.g. hook helps to
alleviate the inevitable ground loop that happens to ships with c.g.
hooks when the wing goes down. Plus the 55 has quite a powerful rudder
which helps keep you tracking straight.
> Wing dropping can be a problem with part-water on board. If the wing is down
> for long enough the water sloshes to the tip and the wing NEVER comes back
> up!
Various water loadings, which, actually seem to help stop the drop,
have been used. When it has dropped, it has typically popped back up
as fast as it went down, if it did drop at all. I would offer that
using the forward (chin) tost hook versus the c.g. hook helps to
alleviate the inevitable ground loop that happens to ships with c.g.
hooks when the wing goes down. Plus the 55 has quite a powerful rudder
which helps keep you tracking straight.
> Nobody is questioning the performance or the construction of the glider. It
> does have a wing dropping problem that could possibly be rectified with
> winglets.
>
Going back to my first note, the Discus whose tip hit the grass has
the biggest rabbit ears out on the tips. Didn't help. I just would
hate to see someone spend good money, and cut up that nice taperwing,
to accomplish probably nothing much. Doing a good briefing with the
wing runner, and being familiar with the ship would be whole lot less
expensive. Thanks for your thoughts.
jjde...@gmail.com
Feb 8, 2016, 11:49:07 AM2/8/16
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On Monday, October 13, 2003 at 4:29:23 PM UTC-5, Tom and Jane Gilbert wrote:
> Any 55 owners fitted winglets to their ships? Thoughts... comments??
>
> Tom Gilbert
This is a very old thread, but I recently purchased an SZD-55 with winglets. I have been searching for others, but so far think I may be the only one.
> Any 55 owners fitted winglets to their ships? Thoughts... comments??
>
> Tom Gilbert
-JJ
Jock Proudfoot
Feb 8, 2016, 1:00:08 PM2/8/16
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AS
Feb 8, 2016, 1:02:26 PM2/8/16
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Uli
AS
Michail_He...@spiegel.de
Feb 11, 2016, 8:08:04 AM2/11/16
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As an owner of a SZD 55 I am interested in the comments of Peter Masak about winglets on the 55, but couldnt find the above mentioned results when typing Peter Masak SZD55 into google - does anyone here have a link?
Anyway, I'd also like to see pictures of a 55 with winglets, just out of pure curiousity - simply cant imagine how winglets work and look like with the very special shape of the 55 wings.
BTW - wasnt the 55 wing especially designed to work without winglets, turbulator tape etc.?
Regards,
Michail
Anyway, I'd also like to see pictures of a 55 with winglets, just out of pure curiousity - simply cant imagine how winglets work and look like with the very special shape of the 55 wings.
BTW - wasnt the 55 wing especially designed to work without winglets, turbulator tape etc.?
Regards,
Michail
Paul T
Feb 11, 2016, 5:00:14 PM2/11/16
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Paul T
Feb 11, 2016, 5:00:15 PM2/11/16
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At 13:08 11 February 2016, Michail_He...@spiegel.de wrote:
jpg
Luke Szczepaniak
Feb 12, 2016, 1:23:06 PM2/12/16
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http://home.silentflight.ca/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1566&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=b0d3689c6c6d0db5e1c32020ba2c4bcd
Legend has it that these were factory prototype winglets from before SZD
went bankrupt in the 90's
Luke
wjdr...@gmail.com
Feb 14, 2016, 1:50:41 PM2/14/16
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On Monday, October 13, 2003 at 1:29:23 PM UTC-8, Tom and Jane Gilbert wrote:
> Any 55 owners fitted winglets to their ships? Thoughts... comments??
>
> Tom Gilbert
I have SN 39, modified with Nelson winglets which look a lot like ASW 27 winglets, and I
> Any 55 owners fitted winglets to their ships? Thoughts... comments??
>
> Tom Gilbert
suspect are more effective than the LS-8 bent up tips. Compared to my recollections of another
'55 that I owned (SN 29) low speed roll control is improved-- which helps with partial
ballast take offs.
On the subject of how much water to put in, Jerzy Szemplinski once told me about the '55:
"Bill, you fill it. You always fill it!"
Tom & Jane Gilbert
Feb 14, 2016, 3:47:54 PM2/14/16
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Hi Bill. At that time (12 years ago!!) I was looking for ways to tame the
take off habits of my '55. Because of my weight (max cockpit) I had to fly
with partial ballast only. Filling it would greatly exceed max all up
weight. Because of the long skinny tanks the partial water load would move
when the wing dropped on take off... something it almost always did unless I
had a very athletic wing runner. So every take off was an adventure and
very entertaining to the onlookers. Having said that I never actually lost
it on take off. But wing down, everything in the opposite corner for an
extended period was not comfortable.
I sold my '55 a few years back. I loved it in the air and it was a rocket
at max weight. It held the Australian 300k out and return for a while at
147kph. I sold it because I considered it to be not the best glider to grow
old in. The new owner (much younger than me) loves it. I now fly a
DG-400... much more in keeping with my aging abilities!!
Best regards,
Tom Gilbert
wrote in message
news:2b114177-90ee-4522...@googlegroups.com...
take off habits of my '55. Because of my weight (max cockpit) I had to fly
with partial ballast only. Filling it would greatly exceed max all up
weight. Because of the long skinny tanks the partial water load would move
when the wing dropped on take off... something it almost always did unless I
had a very athletic wing runner. So every take off was an adventure and
very entertaining to the onlookers. Having said that I never actually lost
it on take off. But wing down, everything in the opposite corner for an
extended period was not comfortable.
I sold my '55 a few years back. I loved it in the air and it was a rocket
at max weight. It held the Australian 300k out and return for a while at
147kph. I sold it because I considered it to be not the best glider to grow
old in. The new owner (much younger than me) loves it. I now fly a
DG-400... much more in keeping with my aging abilities!!
Best regards,
Tom Gilbert
wrote in message
news:2b114177-90ee-4522...@googlegroups.com...
Paul B
Feb 15, 2016, 12:51:47 AM2/15/16
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Hi Tom and Bill
I am also flying 55, and I have some 600 hours in it. I am like Tom, at max cockpit weight. I seldom fly with water and if so only partially full. With or without water I tend not to drop wings though. I take off with partial airbrake, full forward trim and stick on the front stop. I do not finesse the ailerons, they go from stop to stop. On the occasion that I have dropped the wing, as Tom said, everything in the opposite corner brings it up. It has never happened to me with water, so I cannot comment.
Interestingly I am keeping mine to get old, I can still lift the wing at the root with one hand, and I cannot do that with any other glider wing that I am familiar with.
I find the comments about flying with max all up weight intriguing, as I think that I thermal quite poorly(read fast) with water on board (all up 440 kg). Not sure if it is me or the glider.
I would appreciate any comments on the above.
Thanks
Paul
I am also flying 55, and I have some 600 hours in it. I am like Tom, at max cockpit weight. I seldom fly with water and if so only partially full. With or without water I tend not to drop wings though. I take off with partial airbrake, full forward trim and stick on the front stop. I do not finesse the ailerons, they go from stop to stop. On the occasion that I have dropped the wing, as Tom said, everything in the opposite corner brings it up. It has never happened to me with water, so I cannot comment.
Interestingly I am keeping mine to get old, I can still lift the wing at the root with one hand, and I cannot do that with any other glider wing that I am familiar with.
I find the comments about flying with max all up weight intriguing, as I think that I thermal quite poorly(read fast) with water on board (all up 440 kg). Not sure if it is me or the glider.
I would appreciate any comments on the above.
Thanks
Paul
Tom & Jane Gilbert
Feb 15, 2016, 4:29:40 PM2/15/16
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Your take off technique sounds pretty standard Paul. At max weight (135
liters of water in my case) a wing drop can be an issue. The '55 sits tail
down with a large angle of attack. The ailerons are not very effective
until you get the tail up and reduce that angle. If you have a cross wind
or quartering tail wind (the worst!!) you need to keep the tail wheel on the
ground for the early ground roll. So it's a fine balance. I have never
been able to fly it with full tanks so I can't comment on it's behaviour in
this case.
I take your point about the wing weight. A friend of mine bought a '55 for
that reason so he and his wife (small lady) could rig and de-rig without
assistance. I had a 201b Libelle for many years and describe the '55 as a
Libelle on steroids!
All gliders need to be flown faster in thermals when carrying water ballast.
From memory the '55 liked another 5 to 8 knots or so. But it handled the
weight well and never caused me a problem in that regard.
Tom
"Paul B" wrote in message
news:500b1b7a-8621-401d...@googlegroups.com...
liters of water in my case) a wing drop can be an issue. The '55 sits tail
down with a large angle of attack. The ailerons are not very effective
until you get the tail up and reduce that angle. If you have a cross wind
or quartering tail wind (the worst!!) you need to keep the tail wheel on the
ground for the early ground roll. So it's a fine balance. I have never
been able to fly it with full tanks so I can't comment on it's behaviour in
this case.
I take your point about the wing weight. A friend of mine bought a '55 for
that reason so he and his wife (small lady) could rig and de-rig without
assistance. I had a 201b Libelle for many years and describe the '55 as a
Libelle on steroids!
All gliders need to be flown faster in thermals when carrying water ballast.
From memory the '55 liked another 5 to 8 knots or so. But it handled the
weight well and never caused me a problem in that regard.
Tom
"Paul B" wrote in message
news:500b1b7a-8621-401d...@googlegroups.com...
Paul B
Feb 16, 2016, 6:25:49 AM2/16/16
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Thanks Tom
Where did you put your CofG, mine is at 75%. Also what thermalling speed you used when empty(if ever :)).
Cheers
Paul
Where did you put your CofG, mine is at 75%. Also what thermalling speed you used when empty(if ever :)).
Cheers
Paul
Tom & Jane Gilbert
Feb 16, 2016, 3:57:13 PM2/16/16
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Probably about the same but I don't remember actually calculating that. I
installed a brass tail wheel (great mod) and always put an extra litre in
the tail tank when ballasted.
Empty thermalling 48 to 50 knots... down to 45 in very smooth thermals.
Tom
"Paul B" wrote in message
news:c63800ab-6562-4f43...@googlegroups.com...
installed a brass tail wheel (great mod) and always put an extra litre in
the tail tank when ballasted.
Empty thermalling 48 to 50 knots... down to 45 in very smooth thermals.
Tom
"Paul B" wrote in message
jjde...@gmail.com
Apr 12, 2016, 12:00:39 PM4/12/16
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https://goo.gl/photos/QBjDbHSH9YTupkAA8
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