Glider License to Power
soarpilot
I am a licensed glider pilot and will be pursuing my Single Engine
Land power license this upcoming year. I was wondering if anyone in
the group has gone from Glider License only to Single Engine Land
licensing? What were the requirements, etc? Do any of the hours
transfer to the requirement of SEL? Ease / difficulties to
transition? Comments and recommendations?
I am hoping to commit the first month of this upcoming summer to
getting the license, therefore will be looking for a school that "fast
tracks" so to speak. I may also be entertaining the thought of
selling my G102 later next year if anyone might show interest. (Yes,
the spiggot ADs have been done ... lol)
Tim
John Smith
> I was wondering if anyone in the group has gone from Glider License
> only to Single Engine Land licensing?
Yes.
> Ease / difficulties to transition?
The first difficulty is to understand the concept of flying straight and
level and holding altitude. Once this step is mastered, then the next
challenge is to try to understand what the whole point of flying
straight and level is and fighting boredom.
> Comments and recommendations?
Recommondation: Don't sell your glider too fast.
rlovinggood
rating. As John Smith stated, don't sell your glider too fast. Heck,
don't sell it at all. I agree with John about learning to fly
straight and level, buy why do such a boring thing? Oh yea, stall
recovery. The instructor kept insisting on adding power. Power?
What the heck is that? And there's another item to learn: Fuel
quantity and how quickly it ain't there. I was used to glider flights
of several hours in length and about forgot the little Cezzna 150/152
might get thirsty before I was ready to quit flying. Luckily, I got
back on the ground before the engine coughed or became silent.
They cost so much to fly now that about the only time I fly an
airplane, it's every two years and with an instructor when I'm doing a
Flight Review.
Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
bildan
It'll also be hard to explain why you landed a Cessna on the infield
grass instead of going around when someone taxied onto your runway.
rlovinggood
Or sitting in the Cezzna on the runway, waiting for the towplane to
pull out in front of you...
Ray
jcarlyle
-John
JC
´s actually even kind of fun and you don´t have to pay to burn gas..
I don´t know how it works in the US but here you only need to do half
the hours (20) if you already have a glider licence.
Regards,
Juan Carlos
Tim Taylor
Tony
The requirements are spelled out in Part 61 of the FARs. In gliding
there are lower requirements to get your "add on" if you already have
powered flight experience. This does not work the other way around,
meaning you will need to meet pretty much all of the same requirements
as if you were an ab initio student. The only "discount" that i can
see is that you can use 10 hours of your glider flight time towards
the 40 hour requirement. You still would need 20 hours of instruction
and 10 hours of solo (Minimum!) and meet all the other requirements to
qualify for the checkride.
Straight and Level will be a challenge, as will Taxiing (unless you
fly a motorglider). There may be more emphasis on radio communication
that what you have experienced in glider flying. You probably won't
have any issues with power off landings, especially if you trained in
a Schweizer 2 seater. A Cessna 172 at idle only glides a bit worse
than a 2-22 :)
I went from airplanes to gliders but still love flying airplanes when
i have students to instruct, or want to get somewhere semi-reliably,
or have an otherwise fun mission, but if I were you I wouldn't sell
your glider anytime soon, either.
Tony
Paul Remde
About 15 years ago I did the same thing. I had my Private Pilot Glider
license and went to work on getting my Single Engine Airplane rating. All
the information I found indicated that none of the hours or flights logged
in gliders could apply toward my power rating. However, my power instructor
stated many times that my experience in gliders made me a very fast learner
in power-planes. He sent me solo at the very minimum required number of
hours (8?). It was a very windy day with a strong cross-wind. One of the
other instructors questioned his decision to send a student solo on such a
windy day. He said "he's a glider pilot" and the other instructor said,
"Oh, that makes sense, glider pilots can handle a little cross-wind." I
found it very easy to fly the plane. It was a Cessna 150. My experience
flying with the flaps on the 150 made it easy to transition to a Schweizer
1-35c which had flaps only for glidepath control.
Regrettably, I never did complete my instruction and get the power license.
I wish I had. I did enjoy it. But I enjoy flying gliders much more. I put
the money into buying into a glider instead of power lessons. Someday I
will probably go back and get my power license. But for now I have so
little time to fly that I want to put all of it in gliders.
Best Regards,
Paul Remde
"soarpilot" <soar...@comcast.net> wrote in message
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vaughn
"soarpilot" <soar...@comcast.net> wrote in message
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nate_fl
I found that very few of my hours in gliders helped me toward my ASEL
with regard to the minimums. There are so many unique requirements for
ASEL that very few students get the rating in 40 hours anymore.
Practically speaking, your glider time will stand you in good stead,
particularly with regard to adverse yaw and use of the rudder. Many
power pilots don't use the rudders effectively during turning flight,
I think you will find this is a non-issue.
One thing that I had trouble with is the sight picture in the landing
flare. The average trainer sits much higher on the ramp than gliders,
so I tended to land somewhat "flat" at first. Of course, now that I
can grease it on in the Skyhawk, I find that I flare about 2 feet too
high in the glider! Go figure.
Vit Hradecky
check nonsense. Adding a Single Engine rating to an existing
certificate is not considered "flight training" by the TSA.
> Tony- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
jb92563
Hey Tim, why not just take a day or two of "Self Launch" endorsement
and become a motor glider pilot.
I keep on getting power pilots asking me about my Grob 109
Motorglider.
They complain of the cost and lack of flying in their SEL types and
several have offered to buy or partner with me.
Just did a couple 400 mile flights to a Minden flyin, from SoCal and
back up the Owens Valley in CA and down the Central Valley of CA,
others fly XC 1000, 2000 miles and around the world in motorgliders.
Pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/jb92563/MindenFlightUpTheOwensValley?feat=directlink
My Engine overhauls are less frequent(Soaring motor off) and under $5K
My plane is faster/cheaper/sexier than a Cessna 140 and can do things
and go places where other SEL should not.
I also get 35 mpg and can take a friend and some gear along....fly
camping/adventure touring.
Also, Dont sell your glider to buy power, you will likely regret it
and SEL power will cost 3x what you thought and you will get less air
time.
Unless you are considering an aviation career or extreme aerobatics.
You should expand your glider fun as driving a Cessna is like the
familly Minivan......blaaa and you just sit there while your pockets
are emptied as the miles go by.
My 2 cents,
Ray
wby0...@aol.com
a couple years ago. I still struggle with maintaining a fixed
altitude!
Gliders are WAY more fun if you are flying cross-country but power is
pretty dang handy for transportation. I wouldn't sell the glider. You
will miss it like you can't imagine. You can get into power for
cheap. My plane with fresh overhaul came in around $10k but I put a
LOT of work into it. See http://www.antiqueairfield.com/ for a recent
trip write up.
Glider flying makes transition to tailwheel a LOT easier and
quicker.
Glider hours don't help much costwise till you go for the commercial
power. Than it can make a significant difference, especially if you
have cross-country hours.
There have been several good books on transition to gliders but none
on transition to power as far as I know. I've considered writing
one. Example: I was well along in planning a relief system
installation in my airplane when one of my buddies pointed out that I
could simply land to take a leak. I wasn't impressed until he pointed
out that I could also take off again. That was a revelation!
Matt Michael
wby0...@aol.com
another. WOW! Never thought of that! You can really frighten a
power CFI trying to salvage a poor approach. Eventually they will
learn though.
vaughn
"soarpilot" <soar...@comcast.net> wrote in message
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>
> I am a licensed glider pilot and will be pursuing my Single Engine
> Land power license this upcoming year. I was wondering if anyone in
> the group has gone from Glider License only to Single Engine Land
> licensing? What were the requirements, etc? Do any of the hours
> transfer to the requirement of SEL? Ease / difficulties to
> transition? Comments and recommendations?
>
Most CFIG's are familiar with the process of training already-rated pilots
for a new category, but don't be surprised if your power instructor is not.
Most primary power instructors rarely see already-licensed pilots doing "add
on" ratings.
(The following has to do with your paperwork, not your attitude towards
training) Strange as it may seem, you will not be a student pilot! You do
not need a student license, and the provisions of Part 61 subpart 3 (student
pilots) do not apply.. Rather, you are guided by 61.31 (d) (3). Naturally
you will need a medical to solo. Beyond that, for solo you need training in
the appropriate areas of operation and you need the following endorsement in
your logbook:
"To act as PIC of an aircraft in solo operations when the pilot does not
hold an appropriate category/class rating: section 61.31(d)(3).
I certify that (First name, MI, Last name) has received the training as
required by section 61.31(d)(3) to serve as a PIC in a (category and class
of aircraft). I have determined that he/she is prepared to serve as PIC in
that (make and model of aircraft)."
As others have noted, some of your PIC time counts towards the required 40
hours of training. You will need to pass a written test. At the end of
the process, you will need a recommendation & endorsement to take your
checkride, which will be little different from any Private SEL checkride.
After several years as a glider pilot, I added Private SEL privileges to my
Glider Commercial certificate in my mid-50's. It was an interesting
journey. I didn't really count hours, and didn't rush things, but probably
had 40 hours or more SEL time before I got around to taking a checkride. I
just made up my mind to enjoy being a student. I did have considerable
"unlearning" to do. For example: Even today, it is almost impossible for me
to make myself land an airplane in a crosswind without first leveling the
wings just before touchdown. I "regressed" on my check ride and
entertained my examiner with a glider-style power-off stall recovery. (he
was not amused)
Airplane landings were a non-issue for me. Yes, typically a bit flat as
someone else mentioned, but safe. It was hard to get rid of the mind-set
that every approach must result in a landing. After several lessons, I
realized that I had not done even one balked landing, so an instructor and I
went up one day and did several.
Good luck!
Vaughn
lameka val
time a little time to get
1) Learing to pay attention to maintaining straight and level;
2) Learing to add power during stall recovery (to be honest during a
recent BFR it was apparent I still tend to recover first then think,
oh yeah should probably add the power back in now);
3) The whole concept of go-arounds.
Pro's to the whole excercise:
- Far better understanding of other traffic that's out there;
- Far better understanding of airspace & communications;
- You can get a flying fix even when you can't get a tow pilot;
- Item 1) above only needs to be retained temporarily, not all SEL
airplanes are intended for straight & level flight ;-)
Cons:
- Cost;
- You'll end up towing which will cut into your glider flying;
- It ain't soaring so you'll still need your glider, you'll just end
up owning two aircraft..
Alasdair Crawford
ASW-20
RV-6
Tim Leslie
Thanks each and every one for the valuable input(s). This board is a
great resource to the aviator! I don't know which direction I'll go
and will take my time this winter contemplating what it is I want to
do. The suggestion to look into motorgliding is very interesting,
interesting enough that I am presently scheduling an endorsement for
late fall hopefully in Virginia. I think that would be a nice,
inexpensive investigation into power flight and a very cheap
enodrsement to boot. I do know I can't justify the dollars for a high
performance motorglider, but the Vivat and Scheibe offerings look
interesting. Thanks so much for all of the inputs. If you guys get a
chance, check out the motorglider input via this thread and the link
to the picasa photos ... nice shots!
In the meanwhile, I will continue to soar ... I do love it but this
whole aviation thing is like an addiction to me (a late in life
addiction .. I am 51 now and got my glider license at 49). I just
have to have more!
Tim Leslie
(T2)
John Cochrane
Power:
-good for transportation, if you frequently go 300-500 miles or
somewhere far from airports and roads, and don't mind delays getting
back on occasion
-aerobatics look like fun
-towplane
Glider:
-Much more fun for "how to spend sunday afternoon flying" than a
hundred dollar hamburger ride
-Much more challenging
Need more time in the air, and willing to blow huge amounts of money
to get there? Go to new zealand/austraila/argentina for the winter!
Take up contest soaring, and fly from seniors to newcastle! Gliding
offers plenty of ways to fulfill that goal! I've never heard of anyone
who ran out of challenges or ways to burn up money and time in the
quest for aviation while flying gliders
John Cochrane
John Smith
> The suggestion to look into motorgliding is very interesting,
The drawback of Touring Motor Gliders is that you're limited to one
passenger, and the long wings don't help if you intend to go to
unimproved remote strips, either. But TMGs are an option if you feel the
urge to "just go up somehow" in that thermalless winter season.
John Smith
> not all SEL airplanes are intended for straight & level flight ;-)
There's a lot of truth in that. Serious glider aerobatics is insanely
expensive. If you look at the net aerobtics time, you can easily rent an
Extra 300 or even a Yak 52 for that money. Plus, in a power plane you
can repeat a figure over and over again without having to land and relaunch.
Ramy
Not necessarily. If there is reliable lift around, you should be able
to repeat your figures all day long.
Ramy
sisu1a
> > Plus, in a power plane you
> > can repeat a figure over and over again without having to land and relaunch.
>
> Not necessarily. If there is reliable lift around, you should be able
> to repeat your figures all day long.
According to Les Horvath, if the lift is 4kts or less the figures can
come out as clean as one can finesse them, and without even worrying
about a vertical gust snapping your wings off while you are pulling
6+Gs or flying in the yellow arc, which can be a bit more of a concern
if the lift exceeds that by much. Glider acro rules!! (and is NOT
boring... whatsoever!) Now go get some acro training and start
pointing your wheel at the sky already ;)
BTW, your 102 should be at least good for loops, stall turns/
hammerheads (commonly misnomenclature'd as wingovers [for those who
don't know, a wingover is on a 45deg up/down line where a hammer is on
a vertical...] ), spins, steep turns, lazy 8's, chandelles and the
occasional high speed pass.
-Paul (SZD-59 driver/roller coaster buff) Hanson
PS. acro is kind of a physical workout, so it is best not to do it all
day anyhow, although the smile may take much longer to go away... :)
Mike Schumann
Mike Schumann
"jb92563" <jb9...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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Mike Schumann
over hostile terrain while being within final glide of an airport for the
entire trip in case of an engine failure. Two examples: crossing Lake
Michigan or flying from FL to the US Virgin Islands (flying at 12,000 ft,
you are within final glide of an airport over the entire 1,200 mile
distance). You can't do that safely in a Cessna
Mike Schumann
"John Smith" <jo...@nosuchaddress.com> wrote in message
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