Vario choice: LX1606 or Borgelt B500?
Ben C
I am looking at replacing my L-nav with either an LX1606 or Borgelt B500 (B800 if released). It will be used with a PNA running XCSoar for glide calculations. I would appreciate peoples opinions on the various merits (or otherwise) of these two instruments.
Regards, Ben Coleman
Max Kellermann
> I am looking at replacing my L-nav with either an LX1606 or Borgelt B500 (B800 if released). It will be used with a PNA running XCSoar for glide calculations. I would appreciate peoples opinions on the various merits (or otherwise) of these two instruments.
Do you have a special reason not to get a Cambridge again? Because in
my opinion, the CAI302 is the best vario. I have one in my Ventus.
Its biggest strength: the protocol is documented, and Cambridge is the
only vendor which published full documentation. If only all vendors
would follow their example...
Due to that, the CAI302 driver in XCSoar is already the best one we
have. And in XCSoar 6.2, you can download flights to your
PDA/PNA/Android phone right from XCSoar, without additional software.
On LX/Borgelt: we have drivers for these, too.
Borgelt cannot do bidirectional communication; things like MacCready
settings are copied from Borgelt to XCSoar but not the other way
round. And: the Borgelt B50 rounds the barometric altitude to 100ft
accuracy, which is of course unacceptable and unusable. I don't know
about Borgelt's newer products.
LX can do bidirectional, but that part of the protocol is not
documented; we're in contact with the vendor to improve support for
this. Some people at LX are very helpful.
We havn't seen a lot of demand for Borgelt support in XCSoar. If
newer Borgelt products have more features, we will extend our Borgelt
driver. We would need support (documentation and maybe test hardware)
from the vendor then. We havn't been in contact with him lately.
Max
Ben C
Regards, Ben
Max Kellermann
> I am concerned by some issues pilots here have had with Cambridge 302 failures.
You mean the buffer rollover bug? That hit me once. Since then I
know I have to clear its memory once a year. I knew before, but
dismissed it for no good reason.
This can be an annoying bug, and usually that would be unacceptable -
but the openness of the CAI302 protocol outweighs that for me. And
it's extremely easy to work around.
Luckily, the times when hardware vendors would only discuss their
protocols with commercial software vendors behind closed curtains are
over. Our (not-so-small) volunteer project is being taken seriously
by many vendors now, and some even donate test hardware (namely IMI,
Triadis, EW). However the perfection of Cambridge's documentation is
still unmatched.
If you want to help, talk to vendors and make them aware that users
like you want to buy "open hardware" that is well-supported by our
"open software".
Max
Richard
I am a dealer for and have used all three varios in my glider a Ventus
b.
CAI 302
PROS: Inlcudes Logger, easy wiring and power to PDA
CONS: some software and hardware issues but overall still a good
solution.
B500
PROS: Smoothe vario, GPS included
CONS: complicated wiring, Power Converter required for PDA,
complicated switching scheme to download flights, software update
tedious, same with turnpoints, no logger.
LX1606
PROS: Extremely smoothe and effective vario, easily customized by
SeeYou Mobile 2 pages, (not sure about XC Soar Pages), nice stepper
motor needle, and color display, can us with any GPS, great SC and
Vario display. Easy connection to and powers PDA.
CONS: need to connect a GPS, no logger
Currently I am flying with the LX1606 connected to my Ultimate Le
Display. The Ultimate Le will run SeeYou PNA, LK8000, StrePla,
WinPilot. Plans are to feed the LX1606 with PowerFlarm. Most other
PowerFlarm solutions at this time will require a multiplexer, to get
the correct signals to the PDA.
I also have a CAI 302, 303 as a backup vario and system. I perfer
the 1606 Vario/SC display over the CAI 302.
Richard
www.craggyaero.com
Paul Remde
I'm a fan of the Cambridge 302. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend that
product. As long as you remember to clear the memory every spring, it is
very reliable and makes for a nice, simple, clean installation with a PDA.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/cai.htm
Borgelt will soon be shipping the new B800 - which is the successor to the
B500. I have a few B500 units in stock that I'm willing to sell at low cost
to get them out of my inventory - only because they are no longer the
latest. The B800 looks quite nice. I like the way the meter has 3
different rates - it has high resolution at the low lift/sink range and
tighter markings at the high end.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/borgelt.htm
The new ClearNav variometer looks very impressive. I don't know exactly
when they will be available though. It also has a meter with multiple rates
(different spacing of the tick marks at low and high lift/sink rates).
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/clearnav.htm
Recently I have been doing a lot of playing with an LXNAV LX9000. I am
extremely impressed with it. The new V5 variometer is lovely and awesome.
I have heard rumors that LXNAV will make the V5 variometer available as a
stand-alone variometer in the future. I'm sure it will be very popular. I
don't know anything about it yet, or when it will be available. But it may
be worth waiting for.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/lxnav.htm
LX Navigation also makes nice products. The LX1606 looks nice. I haven't
played with or flown with one.
Best Regards,
Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
"Ben C" <bc....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7e18f286-815f-4337...@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com...
Ian Kennedy
Other than that, they both do the job.
"Ben C" wrote in message
news:7e18f286-815f-4337...@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com...
Hi all,
Ian
> Ben C <bc....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I am looking at replacing my L-nav with either an LX1606 or Borgelt
>> B500 (B800 if released). It will be used with a PNA running XCSoar for
>> glide calculations. I would appreciate peoples opinions on the various
>> merits (or otherwise) of these two instruments.
> On LX/Borgelt: we have drivers for these, too.
I use a Borgelt B500 with Xcsoar on an HP hx4700. It is fully supported,
zig-zag wind, outside air temp display, etc. There were some bugs, but I
reported them and the Xscoar team fixed them :-)
> Borgelt cannot do bidirectional communication; things like MacCready
> settings are copied from Borgelt to XCSoar but not the other way round.
I think this is a "feature". The B500 is designed to be a fully
functional unit, with its own (high quality) GPS, final glide computer,
way point database and user interface. So it makes sense to put the
MacCready, ballast and bugs settings directly into the B500. The PDA adds
functionality, but you have lots to fall back on if the PDA fails in
flight.
> And: the Borgelt B50 rounds the barometric altitude to 100ft accuracy,
> which is of course unacceptable and unusable.
I have not actually noticed this as a problem, I am not sure what I am
missing out on.
The B500 has a "stereo vario" function and Xcsoar a "thermal assist"
display, both to help centre on thermals. Neither work for me, but most
of our flying is mountain flying and I guess our thermals are a bit buggy!
I have a Borgelt PSU/switching card. In hindsight I would not bother
buying this again. I ended up using another power supply unit for the PDA
- because it came attached to the cable. The card was very tricky to
mount on the panel and most of switching functions are redundant. Next
plan is a card that talks USB to an Android PDA/Tablet/Phone and serial
to Flarm, Volkslogger and B500 (all at the same time), but to be future
proof it should be able to talk USB to other slave devices too.
One comment about Borgelt, the software is a little quirky and the
hardware is no where as sturdy as the Zander I had before. But the
support is good (e-mails and even Skype conversations with Mike). If you
are local to Oz, this must add a few points in favour of Borgelt.
Ian
Ben C
started thinking about the auto-macready function in XCSoar. Bi-
directional communication would make using it seamless and less
workload (I think). Otherwise the stand-alone capability of the
Borgelt is an attraction in the case of a PDA failure. A 302 would be
stand-alone capable if linked to a 303 but I'm not sure I'd want a 303
on the panel (duplication of the PDA). I don't think the LX1606 has
any final glide capability (at least not to display it).
Regards, Ben
David Reitter
On Jul 13, 9:19 am, Richard <r...@craggyaero.com> wrote:
> LX1606
> PROS: Extremely smoothe and effectivevario, easily customized by
> SeeYou Mobile 2 pages, (not sure about XC Soar Pages), nice stepper
> motor needle, and color display, can us with any GPS, great SC andVariodisplay. Easy connection to and powers PDA.
> CONS: need to connect a GPS, no logger
Could you clarify what the differences are between the LX166 and the
LX1606, apart from the extra control/display unit in the 166?
It seems that the 166 is more powerful, even though your website
presents the 1606 as more capable (and a bit more expensive).
I'm looking for an affordable data source for my PDA and a precise
vario. (I'm not particularly looking for an additional means of
navigation.)
I'm unsure whether to go for an affordable, second-hand Borgelt B50 or
a new LX166.
I'd like to combine Volkslogger[GPS, 4800baud] -> Vario -> iPaq 310
[9600baud]. According to the manual, baud rates are detected
automatically, so I'm concluding that this should work. Do the
LX166/1606 correctly pass flight declarations from the PDA to the
Logger?
Thanks
- David
Richard
David,
I have experience with the LX1606 but none with the LX166. so I am
just scanning the two manuals to extract the differences.
The LX1606 only fills one 57mm intrument hole.
Two pages in the SeeYou software control and set the 1606. they also
allow customization of the SC switch, vario filters and what is shown
on the display when in the SC and Vario mode, also the sounds and the
frequence of the sounds.
Bugs, Ballast, Volume, Mc altitude are also bidirectional from PDA to
LX1606, Flights can also be downloaded with ConnectMe from the Logger
to you PDA, PNA.
In my opion the LX1606 has more features for a PDA, PNA or display
installation. I use the LX 1606 with my Ultimate Le Flight Computer
Display running SeeYou PNA with a Colibri logger until the PowerFlarm
arrives.
Richard
www.craggyaero.com
66
One word: SN10B
PDA/PNAs are nice backups.
Kirk
66
Richard
>
> - Show quoted text -
I tried to look up SN10B in the dictionary but not, I don't believe it
is a word.
On the other hand Ultimate returned this: The best achievable or
imaginable of its kind.
Richard
David Reitter
> Bugs, Ballast, Volume, Mc altitude are also bidirectional from PDA to
> LX1606, Flights can also be downloaded with ConnectMe from the Logger
> to you PDA, PNA.
I got in touch with LX Navigation. They told me that MC, Bugs,
Ballast and Volume are synchronized between LX166 and PDA as well
(depending on the software of course). Logger data should be fed
through for all devices. I think the Volkslogger switches baud rates
for some operations, which may cause issues. I think one will need to
try out these things to tell for sure. Thanks for the info!
kirk.stant
>
> - Show quoted text -
Then we agree, the SN10B is the ultimate.... ;^)
Cheers,
Kirk
66
Richard
The SN10B is a popular flight computer but not the Ultimate.
You can find the Ultimate Le at:
http://www.craggyaero.com/ultimate_le.htm
Richard