Student pilot trying to get over motion sickness...
Jeff Miller
Hi,
I have just started to fly gliders about a month ago. Unfortunately the
nausea associated with motion sickness has not subsided. At first I took
alot of Dramamine which seemed to help, but I felt very fatigued later
in the
day. I tried flying without any, and I could barely handle a 20 minute
flight with few turns much less any thermaling. Is there any nondrousey
motion sickness medication that is readily available that anyone can
recommend?
So far I really like soaring, but it is no fun when I feel sick after
only 10 minutes. I would appreciate any help you can provide!
Thanks,
Jeff Miller
jcmi...@isource.net
Mike/Dana Schuster
Hi Jeff,
Here are several suggestions that have worked for me and others:
1. Try to fly a couple of times a week. Over a long enough period of
time, many people get used to the motion.
2. Don't look at the instruments. Just glance at them from time to
time and keep your eyes outside as much as you can.
3. You can try a pair of anti-motion sickness wrist straps from your
drug store that apply pressure to a point about three inches up your
arm from your wrist joint on the inside between the two main tendons.
4. Don't fly on an empty stomach. Make sure to eat a sandwich,
crackers and drink water before and while flying.
5. Don't take medication of any kind. The side effects are too
dangerous.
Regards,
Mike Schuster / AJO
Caracole
>Is there any nondrousey motion sickness medication that
>is readily available that anyone can recommend?
There are several types of motion sickness pills available, as
well as patches and pressure pads. The most common is
the Dramamine you mention. However we have had several
pilots who had some side effects and they tried the patches.
I believe the name was Scopalomine, and at the time was
only available with a Doctors prescription. Contact your
Doctor and check with your Pharmacist to know what is
currently on the market.
M Eiler
--
Caracole Soaring
22570 Airport Way
California City, Ca 93505
Phone & Fax 619-373-1019
E-mail Cara...@ccis.com
http://members.aol.com/soarca/caracole.htm
John Giddy
Hi Jeff,
Luckily I don't have the problem, but it has been discussed at our club
from time to time. The consensus seems to be that "Kwells" (I think
that is how they are spelt ?) can be quite helpful without making you
too drowsy.
I believe there are also some patches which give a slow release of
anti motion sickness drugs which may help.
John G.
Dale & Rosemary Thompson
: I have just started to fly gliders about a month ago. Unfortunately the
: nausea associated with motion sickness has not subsided...snip, snip..
: Thanks,
: Jeff Miller
: jcmi...@isource.net
Jeff,
Try a couple of ginger-snap cookies before flying. These, or a piece of
candied ginger help some people to combat motion-sickness.
Let us know how it works.....and how your flying progresses.
Good Soaring,,
Dale Thompson U4
Uwe Hale
Jeff,
> So far I really like soaring, but it is no fun when I feel sick after
> only 10 minutes. I would appreciate any help you can provide!
>
It will get better as you go along. I felt sick on my first flights just
thermaling but now it takes big Gs or spins to get me ill. I think some of it
has to do with how much control you have in the plane. If you are just a
passenger it is easier to get sick than if you are flying the airplane.
Don't look straight down in turns, look at the horizon. Keep hydrated and
cool. Don't run the line wearing yourself out and then go fly.
======================
Uwe Hale
http://www.sct-inc.com
======================
Thomas Knauff
Mike/Dana Schuster wrote:
>
> Jeff Miller wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have just started to fly gliders about a month ago. Unfortunately the
> > nausea associated with motion sickness has not subsided.
You have received good tips.
Limit your flight time to less than you know will make you sick. You
must train your body to get used to the experience so you develop the
habit of not becoming ill.
If you become uncomfortable, land as soon as possible.
--
Tom Knauff
Schempp Hirth Sailplanes
Knauff & Grove Soaring Supplies
Keystone Gliderport
3523 South Eagle Valley Road
Julian, Pa USA 16844
Phone (814) 355 2483
Fax (814) 355 2633
http://www.glider.com/knauff/
Jeff Miller
Hi,
I wanted to thank everyone for the advice. I amazed by the response from
this group! I will keep everyone up to date on how I progress.
Thanks!
Jeff Miller
jcmi...@isource.net
hel...@isl.stanford.edu
In <33F13558...@isource.net>, Jeff Miller <jcmi...@isource.net> writes:
>Hi,
>
>I have just started to fly gliders about a month ago. Unfortunately the
>alot of Dramamine which seemed to help, but I felt very fatigued later
>in the
>day. I tried flying without any, and I could barely handle a 20 minute
>motion sickness medication that is readily available that anyone can
>recommend?
>
>only 10 minutes. I would appreciate any help you can provide!
>
>Jeff Miller
>jcmi...@isource.net
Jeff,
I don't know your specific situation, so my comments may or may
not be applicable. But in the hope they might help salvage an
obviously interested glider pilot career (a great thing to do!) here
goes:
When I started training in gliders in 1994, I had no previous power
experience and about 6-9 months of on-again off-again gliding
training (through solo) back in 78-79. I didn't suffer as badly as
you seem to, but circling in thermals got to me after a while and
I'd have to ask the instructor to either straighten out or land.
Over time, I acclimated, and now can thermal all day long. It reminds
me of learning to fly control-line model planes when I was much
younger. The first time I flew one, I was almost certain I'd crash
from dizziness, but as time went on and I acclimated, and dizziness
became a non-issue.
I've heard that ice skaters and dancers who do a lot
of spinning have a similar adjustment period. The trick seems to
be to stop early, rather than late -- both to give yourself some
hope of recovering that day and so you don't develop a fear of
motion sickness -- since fear is one of the major causes! On that
count, I've found that admitting my fears to myself and even to
others helps. I'm not 5 years old anymore where the other kids
would pounce on me if they knew I was afraid. (Thank God!)
I've also been amazed at how almost everyone I take up gets
motion sick, if we stay up long enough and do enough circling,
diving (through sink) and pull ups (in lift). Even veteran power
pilots and one hang glider pilot suffered this. The trick is to stop
early in the process, recover and go up again. Waiting too long
ruins the whole rest of the day.
When I got my license and joined a club, I had to be checked
out by three members of their "flight committee." One of these
veteran glider pilots also got sick, and said this happened on
his first flight of the season each year (which this was).
My conclusion: Soaring
is an activity that takes acclimitization, so give yourself whatever
time you need to adjust. Don't get stuck with a negative self-image
that "I just get air sick and can't do this." since it's likely to become
a self fulfilling prophecy.
Wallace Berry
Hi Jeff. I too have had a bit of motion sickness off and on while flying.
Here's what has worked for me:
This is the number one thing for me: Get plenty of sleep the night before
flying. Most of my bouts with motion sickness have come when I have had
inadequate rest.
Make sure you are hydrated before the flight and carry water, preferably
ice-cold, with you. In my own glider I had a half gallon insulated water
jug mounted in my oxygen bottle mount with a hose equipped with a bite
valve running forward to the cockpit. This works great.
A well ventilated cockpit. How I loved the "open-in-flight" canopy on my
Libelle. Great when you are grinding around down low on a hot day.
Antacid tablets, such as Tums or Rolaids help.
Ērystallized ginger candy works for me. I believe some pharmacies and
health food stores now sell ginger tablets specifically for motion
sickness. Otherwise, sugary stuff seems to make the problem worse.
Make sure you have adequate barf bags and something to clean up with (damp
cloth in a ziplock bag) in the cockpit. Worrying over getting sick and not
having a airsick bag and towel is enough to make me sick.
Speaking of anxiety. I once attended a seminar by a US Navy scientist who
had studied airsickness and it's remedies intensively. He was
collaborating with a Brit scientist who wrote the book on handling
airsickness. Their main concern was reducing the number of pilot and
aircrew trainees that washed out because of airsickness. As best I can
remember, the main problem was that the cadets had the normal general
anxiety over all the things that go along with learning to fly, coupled
with specific anxiety over airsickness. The outcome was that concern over
airsickness became a self fulfilling prophecy for a many of them. The
solution was to teach them that it was natural to be nervous about the
aircraft and to counsel them that airsickness was a natural part of the
process and nothing to worry about. Once the cadets learned that it didn't
matter if they got sick, most of them stopped getting sick. They actually
tested this method in controlled studies. This method works with my wife
if we are flying regularly. However, she tends towards queasiness if she
hasn't flown in a while and is nervous.
As long as you enjoy it, keep flying. You should find that you become less
susceptible to motion sickness as you gain flying hours. A couple of times
I've blown chow into a ziplock bag while scratching for lift miles out on
course. Not pleasant at the moment of course but the flights turned out to
be great fun anyway.
Fly safe.
Wallace Berry
David van der Linden
John,
Added to the advice from others concerning "motion sickness", I experienced
sickness when transitioning from low performance ships to 15m ships. I
dont know if my sickness was classical Motion Sickness because I felt more
quessy in my stomach than dizzy but the following may help.
I would get very sick while thermalling (particularly in strong thermals).
I thought I was going to have to quit soaring :(
After about six incidents of this I found a combination of circumstances
which caused my problem:
1) Expansion of gas in my stomach would cause discomfort leading to
sickness.
2) Seating position (too far forward) put pressure on my stomach.
3) I didnt eat before or while flying.
and finally and I believe most importantly:
4) TENSION of going to a high performing ship (or during training) put
undue stress on myself. In Uvalde one week ago, after a low (900ft) save I
experienced a small episode of sickness, and again with the frustration
involved in a digging out a hole.
Solutions I found:
1) Check you are comfortable in the cockpit. Use cushions, padding etc.
2) Take a bag of cookies or nuts etc.
3) RELAX...Its only a hobby....
I dont want to recommend Dramamine (Although I have used it with no ill
effects) as it can make you drowsy, but I believe there is a Non-drowsy
Dramamine product on the market (I dont want any e-mails about this
please). Popping a Gas-X or similar anti-gas tablet before the flight
remedied my unsettled stomach.
Good Luck,
David van der Linden
LS-3a "L3"
Billevelyn
Jeff writes about motion sickness:
First off, we had a saying the USAF; "There are those who have, those who
will, and those who will again." It just depends on so many variables.
I think David van der Linden hit the nail on the head. During my first
flight in a high performance USAF jet, I felt really bad. I ate no
breakfast, I was nervous, and it was a new experience.
Day two I ate a normal breakfast, the anxiety had subsided, and the
novelty had worn off. Subsequently, I felt fine and have ever since.
WLE LS3A
SoarStan
Many Health Food stores will sell you a bottle of ginger tablets for
motion sickness.
The theory as I have heard it described is that there is a nerve from the
ear canal to the stomach which shuts off the flow of stomach acid when
excessive motion is detected. The lack of stomach acid stops digestion, and
bingo, you are sick.
Ginger root helps keep the stomach acid, and will not induce drowsiness.
I use the ginger tablets all the time. One half an hour before you fly,
and I will take a few with me for a long flight.
The same theory, that motion sickness originates in the ear balance organs
explains the old technique of keeping your eyes on the horizon. If the
head is kept more stationary, there is less motion for it to detect. Bit
difficult to do when thermalling, though!!
Everybody else has quite properly pointed out that the body will adjust,
and you will experience it less as you fly more often. If I give my
grandson a recognition stall, he grabs the sides of the cockpit and says
"whoa". But I hardly notice it.
Dan Marotta
SoarStan wrote:
>
> snip
>
> The same theory, that motion sickness originates in the ear balance organs
> explains the old technique of keeping your eyes on the horizon. If the
> head is kept more stationary, there is less motion for it to detect. Bit
> difficult to do when thermalling, though!!
>
Keeping your eyes on the horizon is a really neat way to make yourself
sick. :( When the head is kept still and the body moves in a circular
motion, the fluid in the middle ear begins to rotate. It's just like
riding on a merry-go-round.
If you keep your head moving (clearing for other traffic) then the fluid
remains essentially still and no dizziness.
Jamie Kirk
On Tue, 12 Aug 1997 21:17:28 -0700, Jeff Miller <jcmi...@isource.net>
wrote:
>I have just started to fly gliders about a month ago. Unfortunately the
>nausea associated with motion sickness has not subsided. At first I took
>alot of Dramamine which seemed to help, but I felt very fatigued later
>in the
>day. I tried flying without any, and I could barely handle a 20 minute
>flight with few turns much less any thermaling. Is there any nondrousey
>motion sickness medication that is readily available that anyone can
>recommend?
>
>So far I really like soaring, but it is no fun when I feel sick after
>only 10 minutes. I would appreciate any help you can provide!
>
I know exactly how you feel. I too get motion sick, and when I was
in the Navy, I would get nauseus every time we pulled out to sea. I
was a passenger in a sailplane, and hang glider, and both times, I
started feeling sick.
I just completed my first sailplane lesson, and while I only stayed
aloft for about 30 minutes, I did not get sick at all. This may have
been because we didn't stay up long enough, I don't know. But, this
is what I did to prepare:
1. Ginger. I didn't have any ginger, so I got some powder out of the
cabinet and mixed it in with cold water. It didn't taste THAT bad,
but, wasn't good either. However, I did this once in the morning
when I got up, once before I left, and once when I got to the
airfield.
2. Eat a DECENT meal. This is very important. Something I learned
in the Navy. No greasy foods, no fast food.
3. Mind over matter. You must convince yourself that what you really
feel is in your head and can be counteracted by willing yourself.
While some may think that this is not scientific, I am convinced that
I can control my mind. (Sounds stupid, but it's true.)
Anyway, I am going for my second lesson next week and will let you
know how I get along with the above prescription.
As a side note, I have found that all motion-sickness pills will cause
drowsiness. Marazene claims to be non-drowsy, but for me it isn't. I
must be part of the 5% of the population for whom it makes drowsy.
Hope this helps.
---
Jamie Kirk
nitn...@worldnet.att.net
"Remove the 1 at the end of my address for all email"
David Noyes
>Many Health Food stores will sell you a bottle of ginger tablets for
>motion sickness.
Several people have suggested that ginger works for them. Sounds like it's
worth a try mainly because ginger cookies are cheap and readily avaiable.
>The theory as I have heard it described is that there is a nerve from the
>ear canal to the stomach which shuts off the flow of stomach acid when
>excessive motion is detected. The lack of stomach acid stops digestion, and
>bingo, you are sick. Ginger root helps keep the stomach acid,
But many pilots have said that flying on an empty stomach causes them to get
airsick. "Lack of stomach acid" can't stop digestion on no stomach contents.
Adrenalin stops digestion; but that in itself does not cause nausea.
Ginger may well work for some, but the "theory" is questionable.
I think Tom's advice to limit yourself to short flights is good.
Dave "NL"
(Remove "NOSPAM_" from return address to reply.)
David Noyes
In article <33F483...@fssc.com> Dan Marotta <dmar...@fssc.com> writes:
>SoarStan wrote:
>> The same theory, that motion sickness originates in the ear balance
organs....
> When the head is kept still and the body moves in a circular
>motion, the fluid in the middle ear begins to rotate. It's just like
>riding on a merry-go-round.
>If you keep your head moving (clearing for other traffic) then the fluid
>remains essentially still and no dizziness.
The "fluid" we are talking about is in the semi-circular canals in the *inner*
ear. (If your middle ear is full of fluid, you're sick.) The fluid in the
canals moves with respect to the head if the the head is rotationaly
*accelerated*. Riding on a merry-go-round doesn't do this. But rapidly
moving your head back and forth "clearing for traffic" etc. does do it.
There are many factors involved in motion sickness. Visual input, inner
ear signals, seat-of-the-pants input, gut movement, gut contents, aural
input, olfactory sensations, and all of these inputs are continuously being
compared to experiences in memory. It's a complex and poorly understood
problem. David, "NL"
phenomenon.
David "NL"
Alan Meyer
One pilot mentioned acupressure wrist bands. I've tried these and found
that, while they are not a panacea, they do help me. I bought them for
four or five bucks at K-Mart. Unlike drugs, they have no side effects.
Another pilot mentioned that it's worse for passengers than pilots. I've
also found this to be true. It's probably entirely psychological, but
when the instructor is flying the plane you have less feeling that you
are in control. That is especially true at the beginning when you don't
even know what's happening and everything is new and strange. If you
got sick after 20 minutes with an instructor doing most of the flying on
your first flight, I'd say that's not doing too badly. It will get better
as you do more of the flying, and as what the instructor is doing feels
more familiar to you.
Lots of pilots said not to fly on an empty stomach but one cautioned about
sugary foods. I remember feeling sick after drinking a coke just before
flying. I don't know if it was the sugar or the gas, but I won't do that
again.
Here are three more suggestions which I don't think anyone has mentioned
yet.
1. Chew gum. Back in the '50's the airlines actually handed out free
chewing gum to passengers. They only stopped when they got tired of
trying to clean it off the undersides of the seats. I don't know how it
works, but it seems to help.
2. Don't always thermal in the same direction. If you've just spent 10
minutes thermalling to the left, try the next one to the right for a
change.
3. Don't fight the turning motions. A lot of new pilots and passengers
get particularly anxious when the plane goes into anything other than
a straight and level attitude. They lean away from the turns. One
instructor once told me to lean into the turns - not because that's the
best way to do it, but because he wanted me to stop fighting it and relax
more. I found that when I leaned into a turn the plane did not spiral
down and crash, nor did I turn upside down and fall out. It made it
easier for me after that to relax during turns.
--
Alan Meyer
AM Systems, Inc
Randallstown, MD
ame...@NSPix.netcom.com
(Please remove NSP from address for email)
(Hoping to cut down the spam this way)
Jeffry Stetson
A good discussion. I'll second most suggestions and add a couple of thoughts.
1) Avoid coffee before flying.
2) Have you ears checked for wax. Also, eating lots of salt can cause water
retention. Sometimes part of this water accumulates in the inner ear and
can induce vertigo.
3) I fly acro, but too occasionally to really get acclimitized. One strange
exercise that I've found very useful is to go to the local park and swing on
a full-sized swing set. At the pull-up, I tilt my head all the way back and
look "up-side-down" behind me. On the first try: instant woozies. A minute
or two of this is plenty. The next day, it works much better, and the third
is no problem. I know, it sounds wierd, but...
--
Jeffry Stetson ... Comm ASEL, Pvt SES & Glider, Instrument Airplane
EAA, SSA, AOPA, IAC, MAPA
Mooney M20E "Superduper 21"
Salto H-101 "Shiva - The Cosmic Dancer"
rbir...@primenet.com
Jeff,
My wife gets motion sickness when flying with me or on
commercial airliners. She used dramammine, which caused drowsiness,
obviously not a choise for a pilot. She has since discovered a ginger
extract available in health food stores. Just 6 to 8 drops in glass of
water 15 minutes before flying works great for her.
Ralph Jones
rbir...@primenet.com wrote:
Jeff and rbirdman--
We've all had the experience of mentioning airsickness and having some
supercilious jerk look at us with an expression that drips condescension
and say "It's ALL in your MIND"...with the implication that that pretty
well explains why YOU have a problem. Well, (to paraphrase a well-known
joke about Microsoft Tech Support) that's true but useless.
It basically works this way. Every time you fly and get sick, your
subconscious files away a memory of it. Every time you fly and DON'T get
sick, your subconscious files away a memory of THAT. And every time you
fly, your subconscious consults its files to estimate what's about to
happen.
So what you need to do is to give your wife some SUCCESSFUL experiences,
and that means short flights. Really short. Give her 10-minute rides
followed by positive support. Then work up in duration. Make damn sure
she knows to tell you the INSTANT she feels the SLIGHTEST discomfort,
and back WAY off every time it happens.
We learn from success, not from failure. Believe it.
rj
marc silverman
Jeff Miller wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have just started to fly gliders about a month ago. Unfortunately the
> nausea associated with motion sickness has not subsided. At first I took
> alot of Dramamine which seemed to help, but I felt very fatigued later
> in the
> day. I tried flying without any, and I could barely handle a 20 minute
> flight with few turns much less any thermaling. Is there any nondrousey
> motion sickness medication that is readily available that anyone can
> recommend?
>
> So far I really like soaring, but it is no fun when I feel sick after
> only 10 minutes. I would appreciate any help you can provide!
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff Miller
> jcmi...@isource.net
I wanted to give you some ideas that might help you.I have been dealing
with the same problem for the twenty years I have been in soaring.Its no
fun getting air sick.It takes the whole fun out of it.What is fact ,is
that many experienced pilots will get sick if they are not flying the
plane but being the passenger. So being occupied with flying has
something to do with not getting sick.At the begining of the season I
get sick easier because I haven't flown in the winter.It takes a while
till my body get's used to the air again.Usually I will get sick after
1-2 hours of flite and part of the reason is I get bored just hanging
around the airport.Once I start cross-country after those first flights
I'm fine because the x-country flites are much more interesting.Things
I've tried in the past are Ginger,Dramamine type remedies (not
recomended),sea sick wrist bands (available at boating shops),Keeping
your eyes out of the cockpit and not on the instuments,not eating(not
recommended).Of these keeping my eyes outside helped the most.Good
ventilation might help a bit.Also ginger would be harmless to try.You
get it from the healthfood store.Some people claim good results.It
didn't do anything for me but maybe I didn't take enough.
You might just get more accustomed as you get more air time.
Hope this helps,Marc Silverman WV
Mike Muncey
> Jeff Miller wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have just started to fly gliders about a month ago. Unfortunately the
> > nausea associated with motion sickness has not subsided. At first I took
> > alot of Dramamine which seemed to help, but I felt very fatigued later
> > in the
> > day. I tried flying without any, and I could barely handle a 20 minute
> > flight with few turns much less any thermaling. Is there any nondrousey
> > motion sickness medication that is readily available that anyone can
> > recommend?
> >
> > So far I really like soaring, but it is no fun when I feel sick after
> > only 10 minutes. I would appreciate any help you can provide!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jeff Miller
> > jcmi...@isource.net
Since my wife had (has) a problem with this, I thought I'd
share a few ideas. First, motion sickness is the result of your
brain not understanding the descrepency between the apparent
motion (G) and what the eyes are seeing. The more you fly
WITHOUT GETTING TO THE POINT OF ACTUALLY BARFING, the more your
brain "learns" and the longer your endurance will be. Actually
barfing takes you back about 10 steps-- so avoid it at all costs.
Since dramamine interferes with your brain's perception, I believe
it also interferes with its ability to "learn" about motion.
(Not to mention its ability to learn to fly!) My wife does
much better (longer endurance) when 1) She is the one flying,
2) She sits in the front seat, 3) She limits circling and bank
angle until she's had a few flights.
Since you are doing primary training, there is little need to do
lots of thermaling to get soloed. Take 3K tows and concentrate
on learing to fly. After you solo, with you at the controls doing
the flying, you can learn to thermal and soar. Once you are the
one flying, you will do much better. Also, as you get less
nervous in the glider, you will also do better.