Gold Distance Attempt

[Wes Minear]

I am looking going to be in a location next week which will allow me to do my Gold Distance and Altitude Tasks.

I can draw a triangle in SeeYou XC planner, what else do I need to know? How do I declare the turn points? From my reading on the SSA webpage it should be declared online before you start. Do I submit a task file somewhere online? Just show my OO my plan? I've read the FAI rules document and it says the governing body will be the one to handle this info.

Planning a trip to Moriarty for next week.

Thanks
Wes

[stephen.s...@gmail.com]

You don’t need to declare turnpoints for a Gold distance. It is a free distance task. Declare them for the Diamond 300km triangle but if you miss the turnpoints or decide to to in a different direction because of conditions, you can still claim the Gold if you cover 300km straight out, out and return, or a triangle. Talk to your OO for the details re process before you fly. The task file must be downloaded by your OO and verified. He or she will then send it on if it is good along with the paperwork.

[Charles Longley]

That’s not correct. I flew my Gold distance twice due to conflicting information. The SSA is not very user friendly. I wish they would be more clear about the requirements.

Charlie L.

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

If I recall correctly you are correct or correct as the rules stated back long ago when we carried turnpoint cameras and a barograph. As a young glider pilot Thre3e of us took off from Indiantown Airport, Alfonso E9, Kay Cawby 41, and Myself, The Purist, and did exactly that flight on a nice October day. I have the pictures in my scrapbook complete with my declaration taped to the vertical fin. Old Bob, The Purist

[MNLou]

I have to step in and defend the SSA and Rollin Hasness, the Badge Dude.

He is very helpful and willing to share his expertise.

There is a lot of bad info out there and he has been trying to clarify everything via the website and seminars he gives.

Or, you could always read the Sporting Code.

I too got bit by bad info and had a flight denied. Only once.

Lou

[Charles Longley]

After emailing him back and forth last year for my Silver and Gold badges I agree Rollin is a good guy. He’s very responsive to badge submissions or questions. He did deny my first attempt at Gold distance last year due not flying to the points I had in as a reference. But I did another flight a few weeks later to declared turn points successfully. My understanding is you do need to declare your turn points and fly to them or the sector behind them.

Charlie L.

[John Johnson]

I applied for all my badges up through Diamond Distance and Goal and along with some low-hanging state records in a single submission last year after achieving a declared 500km fai triangle. Rollin was a lot help - particularly with optimizing my record claims. I wasn't particularly well prepared and had to obtain the FR calibration sheet after the flight and perform other clean up items to make a valid claim. Rollin was patient and well-versed in getting me through the process.

The sporting code is, necessarily, a bit complicated - just like our sport. The thing about Gold Distance is there are multiple ways to achieve it (see SC 2.2.2a and 1.4.2 d-h). This excerpt took me about 1min to find and extract from the SC doc on the SSA website:

Sporting Code 2.2.2
Gold Badge The Gold badge is achieved on completing these soaring performances:
a. GOLD DISTANCE A distance flight of at least 300 kilometres as defined in 1.4.2d to 1.4.2h.
b. GOLD DURATION A duration flight of at least 5 hours.
c. GOLD HEIGHT A gain of height of at least 3000 metres

Sporting Code 1.4.2 d-h (any of these at 300km work for your Gold Distance (see 2.2.2a)
d. STRAIGHT DISTANCE A COURSE without TURN POINTS starting from RELEASE or a declared START POINT.
e. GOAL DISTANCE A COURSE without TURN POINTS, from a declared START POINT to a declared FINISH POINT.
f. 3 TURN POINT DIST. A COURSE from a RELEASE POINT or a declared START POINT to any type of FINISH POINT, via one, two, or three declared TURN POINTS, which may be flown in any order.
g. OUT & RETURN A CLOSED COURSE with only one declared TURN POINT.
h. TRIANGLE A CLOSED COURSE via 2 or 3 declared TURN POINTS flown in the sequence declared. When 3 TURN POINTS are used, the COURSE distance is the sum of the legs between the TURN POINTS.

I didn't think I would really be interested in badge or record claims but my friends urged me to declare a flight on a good day out of El Tiro and I'm glad I did.

JJ

[Soartech]

The sticky part here is not so much what version of 300K do you fly. The original poster has the right idea but needs to know how to do the declartion before the flight?
It is possible to get Gold and Diamond distance with the same flight! That is what he is trying to acheive.
So can someone outline the process? The SSA instructions are not clear at all. I have heard rumours that all declarations must now be electronic and paper is no longer accepted. Is this true? Does the flight recorder have to be the source of this declaration or can it be done somewhre on the SSA website? What about flight recorder calibration? Is this required for distance flights or only altitude? If so where can this be done?
Lots to know here!

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

Do you mean Diamond Goal and Gold Distance?

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

One thing to note is the penalty if your altitude at the starting point is higher than the altitude at the finish point. This was a gotcha for a friend recently during a diamond distance attempt.

Here is the FAI rules chapter and verse per Rollin.
--------------------
2.4.4 Loss of height limits for distances greater than 100 kilometres where the LoH exceeds 1000m using barometric data or 900m using GPS height data, an adjustment of 100 times the excess LoH shall be subtracted from the length of the course. For distances of 100 kilometres or less, the flight is invalid if the LoH exceeds 1% of the distance using barometric data or [1% of course distance less 100m] using GPS height data.
--------------------

"LOH" = Loss of Height

- John (OHM)

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

One other thing to note for "FAI" Gold and "FAI" Diamond goal/distance badge attempts is the requirement to use FAI turn cylinders (basically triangles) and 1km start and finish lines.

Accuracy counts!

Good luck!

- John (OHM)

[Soartech]

SO, a triangular course is required. Does it count if you fly the same course twice? Two 151km triangles?

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

Soartech - To be clear when I was speaking about FAI turn "cylinders" being "triangles" it is *NOT* about flying a triangular course.

A true cylinder has a fixed radius all the way around the turnpoint. Hit any part of it and you can claim the turnpoint.

But an FAI "triangle" (is there a better word?) at a turnpoint is only on the opposite side of a turnpoint's center from your flight's path. Thus you must fly around the backside of a turnpoint to claim it.

Kind of tough to describe in words. To explain better here is a link to a picture of an FAI turnpoint I made from one of my recent flights.

http://derosaweb.net/aviation/SSA/Badges/FAI_Triangle.JPG

Best of luck, John (OHM)

[youngbl...@gmail.com]

Kind of like us Purist did it in the good old days, the picture did not lie! OBTP

[Dan Marotta]

Let's see if I can describe an FAI turn sector:

First draw your triangle on a map. Next, bisect the angle of the
inbound and outbound courses. Around that line center a 90 degree angle
around the bisector. The glider must pass through the turn area. Look
at John's picture as you read my description.

And, no, you can't fly two 151 km triangles back to back. Gotta stretch
your wings!

Dan
5J

[5Z]

Download and read section 3 of the sporting code: https://www.fai.org/sites/default/files/sc3_2021.pdf

5Z

[Tony]

On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 10:16:37 PM UTC-4, 5Z wrote:
> Download and read section 3 of the sporting code: https://www.fai.org/sites/default/files/sc3_2021.pdf
>
> 5Z

Much better to declare sectors than cylinders...

[5Z]

Absolutely! Cylinders require you to fly to a specific spot that my not be convenient at the time.

Take a look at https://www.weglide.org/flight/169289
Click on "Task" on the left, then you will see the sectors I declared and flew. Notice that I didn't even "go around" the first turn, but did enter the sector. The second turn had a thermal, but it wasn't worth working more than a couple turns. And the last turnpoint I was following a line of clouds a bit to the left of it then turned right to enter the sector and make the turnpoint.

Also, there is no limit to the size of the sector, so if there's a blue hole or thunderstorm right at the turnpoint, you can just go wide and still enter the sector. In my case, a TFR popped up that morning that had my first turnpoint inside it, so to stay out of the TFR, I had to turn a bit wide and not "go around" the point. Had I been a bit higher, I could have gone over the top of the TFR. But it was still early in the day, so thermals weren't going that high.

This flight: https://www.weglide.org/flight/162213
shows me making more classic type turnpoints.


5Z

[Soartech]

OK so it is better to create sectors instead of cylinders. Thank you all for pointing that out.
Now the 2nd part of my question is "Can I fly the same course twice to count as acheiving the 300K? (Assuming two 151km triangles.)
Because of terrain and variable weather in my area this would be better for me.
Thank you.

[5Z]

you can
No, you will run out of turnpoints. For the 300K flight you can use up to 3 turnpoints arranged in any way. So it's maybe you can come up with a trapezoid or other odd shape to fit your situation.

5Z

[Martin Gregorie]

I would have said 'don't ask here, go look at the Gliding section of the
FAI's website, but unfortunately its completely fucked up as of 15Aug22.
If you want to see stuff about current championships and other publicity,
its fine, but if you what to read rules and regulations for badge and
record claims, or the sporting code FORGET IT.

It seems that that this idiocy is coming from the top level of the FAI and
their so-called 'internet interface experts'. I'm also a model flyer:
links I've saved that used to point to the International Gliding
Commission and the CIAM (the equivalent FAI section for aeromodelling) no
longer work and nor do the links I've previously saved for both sport-
specific sections of the FAI.

IOW, some brainless plonker at the FAI has utterly failed to realise that:
- almost all aero sport participants save links to the FAI sections
relevant to their sport rather than the FAI top-level URL and, because
they have little interest in other aero-sports, any changes to these
internal FAI URLs is as big a fuckup as changing "fai.org" itself would
be.

- However, not only have these fuckwits invalidated all links to
FAI sporting commissions, they've also screwed up the FAI top level
page: references on it to the IGC and CIAM only point to bloody
publicity shit for current events and have no links to rules and
regulations.

Wake up, people: active aero sport participants currently don't have
access to the the rules and regulations published by the commissions that
oversee their sport and that is not currently (15August2022) acessible,
thanks to the state you've lest your website in.

Right now your website does not work with either the Brave or the FireFox
browsers.

So, get your arses into gear and bloody well FIX YOUR WEBSITE.

I tries to report , but even the CAPTCHA that must be completed to report
problems doesn't work.


--

Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Nicholas Kennedy]

This badge and record stuff/ fine points can be confusing to pilots that don't know the ins and out's.

Back in the day I bought Jackie Paynes " Badge and Record Guidebook" to help.

It did not help much; I found it was very confusing and poorly laid out.

It would be great if someone could write a condensed
" Idiots guide to Gliding Badges and Record attempts."

Nick
T

[Tim Newport-Peace]

Martin,

I have just tried the IGC Documents section (which contains SC3B etc.)
and I can reach it fine. The link is https://www.fai.org/igc-documents.

Even if that fails, there are copies of SC3B and SC3C at:
http://www.ukiws.uk/GFAC/index.htm

Habetis bona deum.

[Tony]

The problem with any published guide is that rules are tinkered with just about every year, so there's no substitute for going to the source. Many of us have had to do flights more than once because of missing a change, in my case that baro s/n became required on the photo dec. Fun to do diamond goal twice in my American aluminum ship in Florida 👍

[Martin Gregorie]

Update: https://www.fai.org/igc-documents gets you to IGC published
documents, but its well hidden - on the website. You have to scroll down
under "Gliding" on the "Commissions" page a long way past events,
publicity, yadda yadda before finding a link to competition and badge-
related rules and regulations.

[Martin Gregorie]

I've found that just now, thanks and also discovered that that URL:

https://www.fai.org/XXX-documents

is generic: just replace XXX with the initials of the sporting commission,
so https://www.fai.org/igc-documents gets you the gliding (IGC) docs and
https://www.fai.org/igc-documents gets the aeromodelling (CIAM) docs.

I'm about to update my reference material, but still maintain that this
website update has been woefully mismanaged.

> Even if that fails, there are copies of SC3B and SC3C at:
> http://www.ukiws.uk/GFAC/index.htm
>

> Habetis bona deum. :-)

Genuine surprise: my (very ancient) Latin actually stretches that far!

Have you noticed that Natalie Haynes has just started Standing Up For The
Classix again on Radio 4? The first episode was yesterday: a nice summary
of what really happened at Pompeii, where the various witnesses were, and
a clarification of the eruption's actual date (autumn rather than spring
79).

[Martin Gregorie]

On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 13:48:45 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie wrote:

> I've found that just now, thanks and also discovered that that URL:
>
> https://www.fai.org/XXX-documents
>
> is generic: just replace XXX with the initials of the sporting
> commission,
> so https://www.fai.org/igc-documents gets you the gliding (IGC) docs and

Oops: make the second one

https://www.fai.org/ciam-documents

[Dan Marotta]

Wow! Sounds like my recent problem with my cellular carrier. They were
purchased by Dish Network and, immediately, All voice mail stopped
working. My research showed it was system wide. When I called their
tech support, the reply was: "Buy a new phone". Bye bye - I switched
carriers.

Can't do that with the FAI, eh? Since I've got all my badges and am not
interested in contests or records, it doesn't affect me. Sorry for your
troubles.

Dan
5J