DG 505 Orion
Mark
Can anyone in the newsgroup let me know first hand what the 505 Orion is
like as an Ab-Initio trainer as well as a 20m X-Country machine. E.G.
does it take a pounding on landing without breaking anything or is the
outer skin strong enough to withstand instructors and students treating
it like a tank?
We are looking at some options for a new two seater and the 505 with 20m
extensions looks quite good.
Mark Keeble
Southern Cross GC
Sydney, Australia.
Andreas Maurer
On 16 Dec 1997 04:28:41 GMT, Mark <mark...@digilaw.com.au> wrote:
>Can anyone in the newsgroup let me know first hand what the 505 Orion is
>like as an Ab-Initio trainer as well as a 20m X-Country machine. E.G.
>does it take a pounding on landing without breaking anything or is the
>outer skin strong enough to withstand instructors and students treating
>it like a tank?
Yes, it is.
Airbrakes extremely effective, easy to land, very effective brakes.
Big, comfortable cockpit (although rather awkward sitting position on
the rear seat - there are not many people in our club who want to
stand this for longe than a couple of hours, me included).
Extremely good quality - better is imho not possible.
Negative points:
The controls are very heavy on the two 505's I know (my club has got
the first one, the second one was the demonstrator). Not easy to fly
precisely.
Some imho rather awkward technical solutions.
>We are looking at some options for a new two seater and the 505 with 20m
>extensions looks quite good.
Well, the glider the 505 must be compared to is the Duo Discus.
The 505 is not bad, but the Duo Discus is better in nearly any point
(apart from the fact that you cannot do aerobatics with it).
The Duo Discus handles much lighter - as light as any 15m-ship
(although it is more difficult to land due to ineffective airbrakes -
it tends to flaaaare...).
The performances of the 505 are not comparative to the Duo:
It is very difficult to center the lift, but when centered the 505
climbs extraordinary well - imho it is one of the best climbing
gliders at all - when the lift is centered. But since lose some time
to center it (compared to other gliders), this advantage counts on ly
on weak days.
On the other hand, the polar of the 505 is much (!!!) inferior at
airspeeds ver 130, 140 km/h - it seems that a laminar bubble separates
at low AOA's.
So a Duo, even a loaded Standard glider (!) outruns the 505 if the
wheather is good (isn't this the case for Australia?).
But what is imho even worse:
The 505 is the worst zoom-climbing glass ship I ever encountered: A
pullup from 230 km/h will bring only about 70 (!!) meters (170 meters
from the red line of 270, for comparison: An ASK-21 climbs 290 meters
from its red line at 280!), compared to about 150 for a Duo or a 15m
glider.
So any lift brings a disadvantage of about 100 meters, and together
with the bad high speed performances...
I was only able to stop other gliders on very weak days - the weaker,
the better.
(Sorry, Karl-Friedrich...but this would be the right time to confirm
that DG Flugzeugbau is working on a new wing for the 505...!)
My conclusion:
If you don't want to do competitions, the 505 will be suitable for
you. But doing a competition will soon result in disappointed pilots
(we had this experience several times now).
Bye
Andreas
Doug Haluza
If you can't swing a new Duo, you might also consider the Janus C with fixed
gear. I bought one with a partner and we've been having plenty of fun.
Performance is equal to the standard class ships of its day such as the
LS-4, even with the wheel hanging out in the breeze (I once did a 20 mile
final glide with an LS3a and there wasn't more than a foot of altitude
difference between us at the end). Climb is excellent with +8 flaps, so
nobody passes you in a thermal. Dive brakes are effective when used with L
flap. For a club, you probably want to dump the tail 'chute to avoid
accidental deployment (though landing with the chute, full flaps and full
brakes is quite impressive).
Possibly the best thing about the Janus C is its stiff high wing with
pronounced dihedral. This gives good ground clearance for landing in uneven
fields (though I haven't tried it personnaly). I'm sure you could land
safely where an ASW-20 would drag a wing. The carbon fiber wings are not too
heavy (around 100 Kg) and two people can assemble the ship with two
wingstands. We have a one-person rig now, and assembly is even easier.
The aileron forces are somewhat heavy, especially compared to the Duo.
People like to grouse about the back seat, but I prefer it. Plenty of
shoulder room and you can cross your legs when not flying. I've been back
there for plenty of long flights over 6 to over 12 hours, and I have no
complaints.
I don't think you'd want to use it, or any >40:1 ship, with new students
because the airspeed control is difficult with such a slippery fish. But
it's a great transition trainer since it has all the performance of a glass
slipper and two seats. It also carries lots of water (540 lbs). There's very
little CG change with the water because of the forward sweep of the wing, so
no tail tank is necessary, but do put the bigger pilot in back. With a heavy
load and a forward CG, the elevator is somewhat ineffective at low speed and
thermalling is more difficult.
Mark wrote in message <882246686.983735@trillian>...
>Can anyone in the newsgroup let me know first hand what the 505 Orion is
>like as an Ab-Initio trainer as well as a 20m X-Country machine. E.G.
>does it take a pounding on landing without breaking anything or is the
>outer skin strong enough to withstand instructors and students treating
>it like a tank?
>We are looking at some options for a new two seater and the 505 with 20m
>extensions looks quite good.
>
Shaber CJ
In article <68o3h7$d...@camel12.mindspring.com>, "Doug Haluza"
<Xdha...@pipeline.com> writes:
>If you can't swing a new Duo, you might also consider the Janus C with
>fixed
gear. I bought one with a partner and we've been having plenty of
>fun.
Performance is equal to the standard class ships of its day such as
>the
LS-4, even with the wheel hanging out in the breeze (I once did a 20
>mile
final glide with an LS3a and there wasn't more than a foot of
>altitude
difference between us at the end).
There just happens to be a very nice Janus C for sale in Southern California.
I am posting this for a friend, who has a Nimbus 4D on order. His Janus C has
about 800 hours a custom interior, B-100 with dual read outs, excellent finish
and contest tuned. Contact Mark at (619) 277-1453 wk or (619) 484-8319 hm.
Please do not e-mail me since this was posted for a friend.
Shaber CJ
There just happens to be a very nice Janus C for sale in Southern California.
I am posting this for a friend, who has a Nimbus 4D on order. His Janus C has
about 800 hours, a custom interior, B-100 with dual read outs, excellent finish
Karl-Friedrich Weber
> Mark wrote in message <882246686.983735@trillian>...
> >Can anyone in the newsgroup let me know first hand what the 505 Orion is
> >like as an Ab-Initio trainer as well as a 20m X-Country machine. E.G.
> >does it take a pounding on landing without breaking anything or is the
> >outer skin strong enough to withstand instructors and students treating
> >it like a tank?
> >We are looking at some options for a new two seater and the 505 with 20m
> >extensions looks quite good.
> >
> >Mark Keeble
> >
> >Southern Cross GC
> >
> >Sydney, Australia.
> >
You should have a look at
http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/DG-505-Multitalent-e.html
I am sure that you will find an answer.
--
Always happy landings
K.-F. Weber
Karl-Friedrich Weber DG Flugzeugbau GmbH
Florastrasse 5 Im Schollengarten 20
D-33729 Bielefeld D-76646 Bruchsal
eM: k-f-...@t-online.de eM: dg-flug...@t-online.de
web-site http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de
DG Flugzeugbau - Manufacturer of DG Gliders
Shaber CJ
Janus C for sale in Southern California. I am posting this for a friend, who
has a Nimbus 4D on order. His Janus C has about 800 hours, a custom interior,
02, water ballast and contest tuned. Contact Mark at (619) 277-1453 wk or