Wilga as a towplane
Bruce
Oscar Alonso
A Wilga is too ugly to be a tow plane. ;-)
Bob Johnson
George Emsden
in the UK trying to get sales as a tow plane. IIRC the CFI at Lasham said
the big radial would lead to high maintenance costs and decided against it.
(The latest ones do not have radials I believe).
Later I spoke to a Ka8 pilot who had had launch behind one and he said it
was almost like having a winch launch!
George Emsden
Moderator - Kestrel Newsgroup on Yahoo
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kestrel401>
"Oscar Alonso" <oal...@cisco.com> wrote in message
news:3D2B4DB4...@cisco.com...
Ged McKnight
Contact the guys at the worlds in '99 at Bayreuth,
Germany.
They had approx 10-15 Wilgas as tow planes there,
.....it was more like a winch launch site the way
they were throwing them in the air...don't know about
operating costs though.
ps they are bloody ugly!!!
Wojciech Scigala
> Does anyone have any experience using a Wilga as a towplane?
The whole Poland do. :)
Wilga is quite powerful and can handle even three gliders at once, but -
as pilots call it - it's a 'flying drag coefficient' and consumes a lot
of fuel.
For comparision - there's a single plane 'Gniady' with wings and body
from Koliber and Wilga's engine, constructed especially for towing - and
makes up to 5-6m/s of lift with glider.
--
Wojtuś.net __|__
FidoNet: 2:484/47 `--------o--------'
Charles Yeates
McKnight <REMOVE_TO_R...@aol.com> wrote in message news:<agfnl1$lkcoi$1...@ID-49798.news.dfncis.de>...
iPilot
about Wilga is:
1. It's a flying tractor. Slow, powerful and need's lot of maintainence.
2. It has a glide angle of approx 4. So, when the engine fails, pilot has to act very fast. Like in
the helicopter.
3. Two Wilgas are enough to keep Your training fleet in air. Usual tow to 300 meters (1000 feet)
takes 3 minutes and Wilga is available after that in half minute or less depending on the skills of
the pilot.
4. Fuel consumption is really high - some 1 litre in minute while towing
5. Oil consumption is high too - some 1 litre in hour
6. There are some maintainence works to be done always and after every day of flight. Ok. Almost.
The positive side is, that not much special instruments are needed eaven in the thoughest theings.
In the winter of 2000/2001 we switched the engines on one Wilga. Cause the new engine needed to be
reconservated (it was stored some time in Russia), we had to take it apart and put back together.
The work was done all by ourselves.
7. It has very big prop with automatic pitch control. So the starts are very fast and that's why
Wilga is ideal plane for short grass runways and for starting from offlandings.
8. The tail of Wilga is pretty weak for shocks and therefore the plane has to be landed carefully on
three spots. Landing is a bit tricky too.
9. It is noisy and need's a pilot with ability (and willingness) to sustain a day-long vibration.
10. It needs a lot of rudder in turning, so experience on Cessna 172 does not allow one to fly Wilga
(also because of the tricky landing).
11. It has a big removable glass doors with the exceptional view sideways. By filmmakers it's found
to be the best airplane for aerial shots. It's still cheaper to fly on cruise than helicopter.
The biggest problem is, that the older Wilgas (dunno about the new-ones) have limited flight-hours
on airframe. And they are not only limited in paper, but in real life too. After the flight-hours
are exhausted, the cracks start to develop here-and there and the airframe need's to be inspected
and refurbished by factory or by qualified shop (which is hell-of-an-expencive). Estonian
authorities still allow flying certain amount of hours after the official flight-hours are
exhausted. Then the plane qualifies in Experimental category and can be used as a pulley only.
Transporting passengers is permitted.
Although we have several Wilgas, they all have their flght-hours close to the end or already over.
Therefore we bought Morane-Saulnier with 235 hp Lycoming engine. This far the experience is been
positive. Pulls like a Wilga (althouth does not get off the ground as fast), but consumes less fuel,
a lot less of oil and does not need as much maintainance. Also Morane is easier to fly, more
comfortable for passengers, less noisy and much cheaper to fly on cruise. Morane needed some
adjustments in automatic pitch control to be suited more for towing.
Hope it helps someone.
Regards,
Kaido
www.purilend.ee
"Oscar Alonso" <oal...@cisco.com> wrote in message news:3D2B4DB4...@cisco.com...
jwren
"Charles Yeates" <yea...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:996f8ff2.02070...@posting.google.com...
Janusz Kesik
USSR, and many other countries form behind the Iron Curtain.
In Poland, the Wilga is our workhorse, and one of it's main duties is
towing gliders, which she does really well. It gives a good climb, and
using it's STOL characteristics,it allows to operate from small and very
rough grass strips. It can also very steeply descend after the tow, and is
soon available for the next tow.
The drawbacks are high fuel consumption by the AI-14RA engine (55-60liters
per hour), and that it is a taildragger, which may be tricky for a pilot
who used to fly Cessna. But there's a novelty - PZL Okecie, the
maufacturer of Wilga had released about two years ago, a new version of
Wilga, called "Wilga 2000". It employs a Lycoming manufactured engine, and
three bladed metal propeller, which made Wilga more silent, more powerful,
and less hungry for fuel.
There's also a new 'specialist' - "Gniady" a plane designed specially for
towing gliders, developed by mr Marganski's factory [ www.marganski.com.pl
].
It uses a Wilga engine AI-14RA, and gives a climb of even 6-7 m/s. I have
frown behind this plane, and I remember that Pirat with me inside went
into the air like the little rocket. :)
To sum up, Wilga is a great towplane, despide of some drawbacks, like the
high fuel and sometimes also oil consumption (however that 1 liter / hour
mentioned by someone is huge overestimation). THe club which owns one will
be happy with orders for a photo rides from guys who want to take some
pics with the doors removed, and with ordinary people clients who want to
see something outside (really great visibility). It's worth consideration.
Best Regards,
Janusz Kesik
Aeroclub Czestochowa
jant...@interia.pl
www.soaring.enter.net.pl
Bruce
received back to my club for discussion. We currently use a Pawnee
and a SuperCub. The Pawnee is great but the SuperCub is marginal on
hot days with no wind and towing a heavy glider. Our new home runway
is a little shorter than what we were used to so the Wilga was ofered
as an alternative to the SuperCub.
Bruce
Ricardas Rusteika
do you still fly in Estonia? What clubs? Do you have championships?
Regards,
Ricardas (Lithuania)
"iPilot" <ka...@airport.ee> wrote in message
news:aggmep$anp$1...@kadri.ut.ee...
iPilot
And according to the activity in this group here, more actively than Lithuanians (which isn't of
course not eaven close to reality). The biggest club in Estonia is Ridali Lennuklubi
(www.purilend.ee), which is managed by Einar Viin. There are smaller clubs in Tapa
(http://www.hot.ee/nurmsi/), Viljandi (http://my.tele2.ee/lennuklubi/) . And there's "Eesti Esimene
Aeronautikaklubi" (http://www.aero.ee/), which trains also soaring pilots in spite of being mostly
club for powered pilots.
Our soviet-time biggest club - Kuusiku - has lost it's meaning. There are only some flyable
sailplanes left out of the many. And those are mostly Blaniks. We had the chance to save one open
class Jantar from there, but it has no stab. All the rest are either sold or storaged so badly, that
they are not usable anymore (imagine, what does the water inside of the Jantar's wing when it get's
to the freezing temperatures). Former Kuusiku club is now mostly occupied by skydivers. Skydiving,
btw is quite popular in Estonia right now also.
Things are starting to look good in last years.
More new students are coming and people have more resources to spend on flying. There was a serious
crisis on the mid-nineties, when old pilots had lost enthusiasm and young-ones didn't appear. I was
among the firsts to started learning after the demise of USSR. I started flying in 1997. There are
several promising pilots training today. We still fly the old Blaniks, Jantars and LAK-12's (plus 1
Pirat and 1 Cobra - both in Ridali). Only now we are starting to gain enough financial strenghth to
buy new planes. We bought new tug (Morane) and are planning to buy plastic double-seater acro
(Possibly some Grob). We have also good relationships in Sportine Aviacija, which provides us the
repair services in case when our own people aren't qualified enough and some spare parts (cupolas).
My personal assumption is, that we have approx 200-300 soaring pilots in Estonia right now, but only
10-15% of them actively flying.
I tried to organize some competition this Year, but there were too few interested pilots. So, the
only contest we do in every Year, is season-ending precision landing contest. Right now we can't
compete in soaring activity with Lithuanians, but we hope to catch on soon :-). Two of our pilot's
were flying in one contest in Lithuania in 2000 and, to be honest, did not performed well.
Regards,
Kaido Tiigisoon
www.purilend.ee
"Ricardas Rusteika" <euro...@kaunas.omnitel.net> wrote in message news:3d2d...@news.takas.lt...
Janos Bauer
As was said before it has poor glide angle without power. As an example
see this Wilga from EGC2002 (that day was canceled for std class):
http://www.politext.hu/wilga_k.jpg
Regards,
/Janos
Janusz Kesik
Ray Lovinggood
Obviously, what has happened, is the Wilga has been
modified to droop its nose just like a Concorde, to
make visibility over the nose better for takeoffs and
landings.
In my opinion, the Concorde looks like it got a bit
better engineering and assembly than the Wilga.
Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
Janos Bauer
Maybe those who are on the EGC know more about this accident but as I
heard right after the take off the engine lost power and immediate
landing was needed. The sailplane was also damaged a bit.:(
Regards,
/Janos
Janusz Kesik
;))))
Janusz.
Janusz Kesik
Well it could have happened with every plane type. The good side in whole
thing is that Wilga is rather well prepared for hard landing in rough field.
I am afraid that in case of let's say Zlin, the plane's (and then, pilot's)
condition could be much worse.
What happened to the pilot? Anyone knows?
Janusz Kesik
Aeroclub Czestochowa
jant...@interia.pl
www.soaring.enter.net.pl
> Maybe those who are on the EGC know more about this accident but as I
szd-55 flyer
points).
The Wilga demands the pilots atention for landing(It does not land by
itself like a super cub)
But when you harnes the beast she will climb 30-50% better and for the
descent you use shutters to keep it warm(min145C deg) and it will take
only 1 min for the return. Which beats anything else on the market.
idiu...@gmail.com
> Does anyone have any experience using a Wilga as a towplane?
It was built to be a STOL (short take off and landing) aircraft, and the wings are having slats for this purpose. It is able to tow your glider from a 200 yeards field. With good headwind, the aicraft can take off within 100 feet run only!
It is not very well suited for air tours, because it has a glide ratio of only 1/4. Its main strengths are climb and landing as fast as possible, in other words, putting as much gliders as possible in the air.
When the engine is cut off, you can put the aircraft nose dive and bring it to the ground within 2-3 minutes from an altitude of 2000 feet, without being being worried about exceeding the maximum speed. Shorter time = less fuel spent.
When towing, its fuel consumption is of approx. of 60 liter per hour. Probably the best towing aircraft in the world.
Dan Marotta
to prevent shock cooling during a rapid descent?
<idiu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f7005a56-372d-468c...@googlegroups.com...
Martin Gregorie
> Doesn't the Wilga have shutters in front of the engine which you can
> close to prevent shock cooling during a rapid descent?
>
towed at our Regionals, so it is somewhat familiar. I've been told that
its typically Soviet-era front cowl shutters are very effective and that
after releasing the glider you can shut the throttle and shutters without
any risk of cracking cylinders and that, if you know what you're doing,
the engine temp stays within a 30 degree C(?) temperature band through a
number of launch cycles.
The worst I've heard said about them is that the usual radial, a 260 hp
Ivchenko AI-14 is a relatively short-life engine. Its also used on a lot
of light aircraft, including the Yak 12 and 18A.
Apparently there are some Wilgas fitted with Lycoming O-540s. Possibly
they're mostly on your side of the pond since I've never seen one.
--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
eric
high drag and so likes to tow slower than most modern gliders like to
be towed. The fuel consumption increases and the climb rate decreases
rapidly with speed. The high lift devices cause alot of downwash
which causes poor aileron control for the following gliders unless
they are towed faster than usual.
Their only good point is that they are cheap to buy.
geoff.v...@gmail.com
> Does anyone have any experience using a Wilga as a towplane?
Geoff Vincent
Grampians Soaring Club
Australia
Larry Suter
Northern California Soaring Association has recently been using a Cherokee 235 with great success. Excellent towplane in our opinion. We operate near sea level.
Larry
Chris Rollings
>On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 07:37:34 -0800 (PST), idiu...@gmail.com wrote:
>
a Pawnee. I did a test once, got one back on the ground in 30 seconds from
2,000 feet on base leg.
Problem is, if you drop the glider two or three miles up-wind of the field,
where they usually want to be, you burn an extra gallon of fuel getting
back.
ifee...@hotmail.com
swplu...@gmail.com
Regards
Stuart Welsby
RAAF Richmond Gliding club
