FS5.1 Realism / World / ILS, VOR Questions
Eddie Galvez
A lot of questions eh?
Ok Let's break it all down.
Realism
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
Fs 5 I know can get pretty realistic, but I'd like to know which setting of
"Aircraft Reliability" is the closest to the "real thing?". I'm pretty sure
the total right setting (9?) ='s no faults ever... And I'm sure that's not the
truth.. I, with NO aircraft knowledge, think a 7.5 would be it.. Anyone else
have ideas?
World
ŻŻŻŻŻ
I know that the CDRom version says it includes a whole bunch of new airports..
Does anyone have a clue on the percentage of Total World Airports? 30%? 50%?
I'd really like to know if there is any chance of doing a SCL (Santiago de
Chile) - JFK (New York) flight with a small aircraft that would need fuel
and therefore would need to land at any airport?
[I'd take anyone who has a map / coordinates / ATiS - Vor of any airport in
between those.. although normally commercial airlines go over the water...]
(along the same line, I guess fuel usage in FS5 is real - a boeing would do
all that in one flight right?)
ILS, VOR
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
I just can't understand something with VOR's...
I got VERY clear what it is, its this 'point' that sends signals 360degrees
around it. ok. Now, I could use it to HEAD to it (how would I do that? click
the knob , till the vertical line centers?)
or if I want to use it , so that I am 'notified' when I "cross" a certain
radial? (which would help me say if I am flying NORTH, and I want to know when
I cross the 270'th degree radial of a VOR on my EAST; that helps me knowing
where I am on long flights)
For this, I usually set the knob so that the numbers above indicate the
radial I want. (say 270) and I hope that it will 'center' itself at the
instant I "cross" 270 right? well.. I didn't see anything :(
ALSO: Why the **** does the instrument indicate FROM? I am obviously on the
South-West of the VOR emitter, and heading TO it.. I never could get a 270
reading say TO.. (as in - there is no 270 degree TO and a 270 degree FROM,
which would make sense wouldn't it?)
Can anyone clear up this mess? Even a basic tutorial on VOR explained in human
to human terms :)...
THANKS for any replies.
Emails CC's are accepted, posts too. Remove Cross-Newsgroups if you think
necessary.
HH, Eddie (HH = Hoping Help)
----------------------------------
Eddie Galvez - NYC
mailto:ega...@walrus.com
http://www.walrus.com/~egalvez/
talk://ed...@206.153.126.44
VDOPhone, CuSeeMe, Iphone 4 on demand
Roger G. Fischer
In article <5001p6$i...@alice.walrus.com>, ega...@walrus.com (Eddie
Galvez) wrote:
€ILS, VOR
€¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
€I just can't understand something with VOR's...
€ALSO: Why the **** does the instrument indicate FROM? I am obviously on the
€South-West of the VOR emitter, and heading TO it.. I never could get a 270
€reading say TO.. (as in - there is no 270 degree TO and a 270 degree FROM,
€which would make sense wouldn't it?)
€
€Can anyone clear up this mess? Even a basic tutorial on VOR explained in human
€to human terms :)...
VOR's can be very tricky. Hopefully this help.
The readings you get on the VOR
"HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH WHICH WAY YOU AIRPLANE IS HEADED!"
If you set the OBS (omni bearing select) on a heading of 001°deg
then...
the VOR will indicate TO any time you are south of the VOR (no matter
which way you are heading north, south, straight up... so on
and
the VOR will give a LEFT needle deflection if you are East of the VOR and
a RIGHT deflection if you are West of the vor
ie.
the direction you would need to fly to get on course if you were on a
001°deg heading or course.
OK, let's spice things up a little
If you set the OBS on a heading of 090°deg (east)
assume you are flying an east course towards the VOR
then...
the VOR will indicate TO if you are WEST of the VOR
(eastbound towards the VOR)
the VOR will indicate FROM if you are East of the VOR
(eastbound away from the VOR)
The VOR needle will deflect left if you are SOUTH of the VOR
The VOR needle will deflect right if you are North of the VOR
In otherwords.
the TO/FROM and the Left Right indication are for an airplane on the same
compass heading as the course you dialed on the OBS. (no matter which way
your airplane is actually headed)
If you are South-West of the VOR, the only way to get a TO indication is
to dial up a North-East heading (a course that will take you TO the VOR)
I hope that this helps.
--
\ _
`Oo'
=()()= Roger G. Fischer
U Aackkk Pthtttt!!! rgfi...@ccgate.hac.com
Dan Nichols
Here is how I use the VOR's and it works well for me
if you want to fly to a certain VOR then pick the radial that you want
if you are north of the station then you add 180 degrees to the radial you want and set
that as your TO setting. for instance if you want to fly along the 35 degree radial the
set you VOR at 215 for your TO setting. and then set it just the opposite if your coming
from the south of the station.
You will notice when you pass the station that it will change, TO become FROM and vice
versa because now you are going from the 35 degree radial if you were flying to the 35
degree radial and passed the station you would then be flying from the 35 degree radial.
hope this helps.
it is kinda confusing at first.
David Taylor
> For this, I usually set the knob so that the numbers above indicate
> the radial I want. (say 270) and I hope that it will 'center' itself at
> the instant I "cross" 270 right? well.. I didn't see anything :(
Then you didn't cross the 270 radial!
> ALSO: Why the **** does the instrument indicate FROM? I am obviously on
> the South-West of the VOR emitter, and heading TO it.. I never could
> get a 270 reading say TO.. (as in - there is no 270 degree TO and a 270
> degree FROM, which would make sense wouldn't it?)
The TO/FROM is to remove ambiguity. Lets say that you are flying on a
heading TO the 090 radial
-> TO 090 *
The TO in this case will tell you that in order to reach the VOR, you
need to fly on a 090 heading and the needle will indicate fly left/right
to correct to track the radial. Now, the aircraft could be in the same
place heading the same direction but the indication *could* be "FROM 270"
in which case, the fly left/right would be reversed. Also, the aircraft
could be pointing the other way and flying right to left but in the
position indicated above but still with "TO 090", note: the VOR display
doesn't care which direction the aircraft is headed, only what position
the aircraft is in relative TO/FROM a radial and whether to fly left or
right to achieve it! My best suggestion is to go out and buy a book on
Instrument navigation from a bookshop or your local pilot shop as these
things will be explained much clearer than I have do so here!
Cheers
David.
Felix Roske
>A lot of questions eh?
In fact, it is!
MS FS is a commercial product, many people invested a lot of time and
money!
Maybe you should buy it. You even get a handbook with it, which will
answer most of your questions! ;-)
Bye, Felix
W. and S. Young
Eddie Galvez wrote:
> Realism
> =AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF
> Fs 5 I know can get pretty realistic, but I'd like to know which setting =
of
> "Aircraft Reliability" is the closest to the "real thing?". I'm pretty su=
re
> the total right setting (9?) =3D's no faults ever... And I'm sure that's =
not the
> truth.. I, with NO aircraft knowledge, think a 7.5 would be it.. Anyone e=
lse
> have ideas?
The setting of 8 should be about right if you want "realism", but I'd perso=
nally go for =
9 since FS5 dosn't simulate break-downs realistically in the first place. I=
t must be a =
bug, since the same instruments always fail first.
In all actuality, FS5, despite it's pretty SVGA graphics, is not very reali=
stic as far =
as civilian VFR flight goes.
=
> World
> =AF=AF=AF=AF=AF
> I know that the CDRom version says it includes a whole bunch of new airpo=
rts..
> Does anyone have a clue on the percentage of Total World Airports? 30%? 5=
0%?
> I'd really like to know if there is any chance of doing a SCL (Santiago d=
e
> Chile) - JFK (New York) flight with a small aircraft that would need fuel=
> and therefore would need to land at any airport?
> [I'd take anyone who has a map / coordinates / ATiS - Vor of any airport =
in
> between those.. although normally commercial airlines go over the water..=
=2E]
> (along the same line, I guess fuel usage in FS5 is real - a boeing would =
do
> all that in one flight right?)
There's pretty much one new airport per state in the US, and one per major =
country/city =
around the world.
> =
> ILS, VOR
> =AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF
> I just can't understand something with VOR's...
> I got VERY clear what it is, its this 'point' that sends signals 360degre=
es
> around it. ok. Now, I could use it to HEAD to it (how would I do that? cl=
ick
> the knob , till the vertical line centers?)
Click on the knob till the line centers? That would certainly get you TO th=
e VOR, or =
away from it via the most readily-available radial, but would kinda destroy=
the whole =
idea of VORs: Navigation along the route you want.
> For this, I usually set the knob so that the numbers above indicate the=
> radial I want. (say 270) and I hope that it will 'center' itself at the
> instant I "cross" 270 right? well.. I didn't see anything :(
> ALSO: Why the **** does the instrument indicate FROM? =
First of all, you can set the OBI to any number that you want, but unless y=
ou bank to =
intercept the radial, of course you'll never cross it. Basic VFR navigation=
should have =
you pointing in the general direction of the VOR in the first place, so set=
ting-up the =
radial you want on the OBI, and then intercepting it on a standard 45 degre=
e course =
should be easy.
At any rate, the OBI has two settings, TO and FROM. You need to set the TOP=
number to =
the radial you wish to intercept, not the reciprical. Your telling the inst=
rument that =
you wish to fly AWAY from the VOR along the radial selected. You need to se=
t the OBI so =
that it's TO, not FROM. One you've selected the proper TO radial on the OBI=
, you need to =
intercept it on a 45 degree course, and after you've intercepted it, resume=
navigation =
along the radial - compensating for wind or you'll drift right off it.
> Can anyone clear up this mess? Even a basic tutorial on VOR explained in =
human
> to human terms :)...
Well... if you need more help, just ask. This stuff can be confusing to ar=
mchair pilots =
who are new to the whole arena, and I'm more than happy to help, but it'll =
probably be =
more than you ever wanted to know about VORs.
One thing, though, if you don't know what "VOR" even means, then, yes, you =
do need some =
basic instruction. :) Just remember though, that FS5 has some very fundamen=
tal problems =
with true VFR navigation in it's "world" - and that VFR navigation is IMPOS=
SIBLE to do =
outside of the small detailed scenery areas. The only area where I was able=
to do =
successful VFR was in the San Fransisco area, and even that was confusing. =
They just =
need to put-down more visual cues from real sectionals. I recommend SubLogi=
c's "FLIGHT" =
over MicroSoft's FS5. Even FS4 with SubLogic's USA East and West is better!=
Hope this helps, and if you need more help, just write back.
Eddie Galvez
I got that ok, asite from slight typos :)
nice idea, I first thought you were wacko saying 'add 180' ..nice trick
thanks, Ed
ega...@walrus.com
Eddie Galvez
In article <rgfischer-280...@147.17.70.2>, rgfi...@ccgate.hac.com (Roger G. Fischer) wrote:
>If you set the OBS (omni bearing select) on a heading of 001°deg
>then...
>
>the VOR will indicate TO any time you are south of the VOR (no matter
>which way you are heading north, south, straight up... so on
Oh oh , Wouh, that breaks up all my knowledge of VORS. I thought the aircraft
would "read" ONLY "radial signal 001" from the vor.. so from the SOUTH the
aircraft wouldn't read "anything" because obviously you are not "receiving
radial 001"!
Now.. if you say, setting it to 001, AND being south of it will give TO... HM
001 = NslightEast.. hmm lets read more.
>and
>the VOR will give a LEFT needle deflection if you are East of the VOR and
>a RIGHT deflection if you are West of the vor
>ie.
>the direction you would need to fly to get on course if you were on a
>001°deg heading or course.
eek. I'm dead.
."you would NEED to fly"?
I so far have understood a vor for this:
1) Head to it (move the knob till you get a CENTERED needle, then head
your plane to the top number (being careful sometimes of that TO / FROM thing)
2) Pause game, Find radial you are intercepting of VOR 1, and of another VOR,
intersect both on a map, then map a line to your objective, and head that way.
After say an hour, check any drift by doing the same..
and I just can't fit what you just told me in any of those 'usability' guides
:(
>OK, let's spice things up a little
>
>If you set the OBS on a heading of 090°deg (east)
>assume you are flying an east course towards the VOR
>then...
==> O
plane VOR
>the VOR will indicate TO if you are WEST of the VOR
> (eastbound towards the VOR)
Like the above ascci: OBS reading: 090 TO (cuz I am going TO the vor, [on
radial 270 in fact, but that is the "inverse")
>the VOR will indicate FROM if you are East of the VOR
> (eastbound away from the VOR)
O ==>
OBS reads: 090 FROM, yeah thats easy to understand
>The VOR needle will deflect left if you are SOUTH of the VOR
O
<==
OBS needle: LEFT? meaning, I should tilt my plane to the LEFT to 'interecpt or
head" to vor.. arg don't work..
oh.. now that I read below, LEFT refferent to OBS setting 090. soo...
OH YEAH! .. oh no. oh arg
I'd beleive you if OBS was reading 270...
I am south, doesn't matter AIRPLANES heading right? ok
O
=
=> (my heading is say 120) OBS Set to 090. You say needle should be to
the LEFT.. hmm why? cuz 090 IS to my left. but If I face <== @ 210 say, the
090 is to my... LEFT again? arg.
>The VOR needle will deflect right if you are North of the VOR
lets keep on.
>In otherwords.
>the TO/FROM and the Left Right indication are for an airplane on the same
>compass heading as the course you dialed on the OBS. (no matter which way
>your airplane is actually headed)
Eeek.
>If you are South-West of the VOR, the only way to get a TO indication is
>to dial up a North-East heading (a course that will take you TO the VOR)
O
X (plane)
sure, heading say should be 035.
I'd usually move the needle till it centers, and head to the OBS heading...
Hm, do I need anything else to know other than what I stated as the "TWO
USES" of VORS?
Sure helped. Thanks again.
ed
\=/, _-===-_-====-_-===-_-=====-_-===-_
| @___oo ( Eddie 'NetCRASh' Galvez _)
/\ /\ / (___,,,}_--= New York, NY _)
) /^\) ^\/ _) =__ iPHONE 4 | CuSeeMe Color available_)
) /^\/ _) ( ega...@walrus.com | ed-...@juno.com _)
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\______(_______;;; __;;; Human Nature is in fact human habit...
Selmer Estenson
On Tue, 27 Aug 1996, Eddie Galvez wrote:
> A lot of questions eh?
>
> Ok Let's break it all down.
> I just can't understand something with VOR's...
> I got VERY clear what it is, its this 'point' that sends signals 360degrees
> around it. ok. Now, I could use it to HEAD to it (how would I do that? click
> the knob , till the vertical line centers?)
> ALSO: Why the **** does the instrument indicate FROM? I am obviously on the
> South-West of the VOR emitter, and heading TO it.. I never could get a 270
> reading say TO.. (as in - there is no 270 degree TO and a 270 degree FROM,
> which would make sense wouldn't it?)
>
> Can anyone clear up this mess? Even a basic tutorial on VOR explained in human
> to human terms :)...
>
>
> THANKS for any replies.
> Emails CC's are accepted, posts too. Remove Cross-Newsgroups if you think
> necessary.
>
> HH, Eddie (HH = Hoping Help)
>
Eddie
Roger and David gave you some good info. Let me add one more thing.
Hope this doesnt add any confusion.
You have the basic concept of the VOR.
The confusion factor here is the to and from.
As you said the VOR sends out signals in 360 directions. One each for
all the points on the compass. These directions (or radials) are all
labeled according to their compass directions. 1 thru 360. What we have
to remember is that they all are from the center point of the VOR
transmitter. So they all should read xxx from. If you are going to use
the 270 degree radial to fly to the vor you must dial in the number
that is exactly opposite direction from 270 . Im assuming you know a
180 degree turn is in the opposite direction. So 90 degrees is opposite
of 270. This is assuming that you know you are west of the vor.
So if you are west of the vor and have 270 dialed in with the obi
knob and the needle is centered you know you are on the 270 degree
radial from. Of course if the from flag is on that also tells you
that you are west of the vor. Look at the dial and 270 will be on
top of the face plate and 90 will be at the bottom. Now turn
your obi knob till the 90 is at the top and now you will see the
flag flip to indicate to. Now turn the plane so your compass reads
90 degrees and you will be heading toward the vor on the 270 degree
radial. Make adjustments to your heading to keep the needle centered
When you come to the VOR transmitter the flag will switch indications
it will flip between the reading of to and the from flag will come on.
Now you are on the 90 degree radial from the vor going east of the vor.
Just remember a radial is a line that goes right thru the vor. The name
of the radial switches 180 degrees after it passes thru the vor.
Im sure you are totally confused now.
Sam
Thomas Russo
On Tue, 27 Aug 96 23:52:35 GMT, ega...@walrus.com (Eddie Galvez) said:
Eddie> A lot of questions eh?
Eddie> ILS, VOR
[question about VORs & how to use them]
Pardon me for jumping in here headfirst with both feet. VORs in MSFS work
just the way they do in Real Life, so I'll share with you some things I've
learned about them. An understanding of what VORs do and don't tell you will
help you use them.
My ground school instructor described VORs in terms of the following analogy.
Imagine you're in a boat at night. There's a lighthouse in the distance.
Every few minutes, the lighthouse keeper flashes the beacon, then goes for
a stroll around the outside of the lighthouse. He carries a lantern which
sends out a narrow beam ahead of him. He always starts his walk at the
same point, say, directly to the north of the center of the lighthouse,
always walks clockwise, and moves at a constant speed. When he's done
(let's say for the sake of argument it takes 2 minutes for the circuit),
he goes back in and flashes the beacon again to start the process over
again.
From your point of view you can see only a flash of the beacon, and then
some time later, when the keeper's lantern is pointed your way, a small
flash of light.
By measuring the time between the bright flash and the little flash, you
can tell where you are relative to the lighthouse --- if you see the little
flash immediately after the big one you're due north of the lighthouse. If
you see it one minute after the big flash, you know you're due south.
Complicate the picture a bit: his lantern shines a white beam ahead of him
and a red beam backward. If you see a red flash right after the beacon
flash, you're due south, because he's due north and you see his back.
Similarly if you see a red flash a minute later, you're due north because
he's on the south side of the lighthouse and you see his back (it's a magic
lighthouse and you can see through it :-)).
Now, VORs work faster and with phased arrays of antennae instead of guys
walking around with lanterns, but the concept is the same. A signal tells you
what direction you'd be facing if you were to stand at the station and look
at your position (FROM indicator), or which direction you would would face if
you stood at your position and looked directly at the station (TO).
Note that the *heading* of your aircraft is irrelevant to the issue, VOR tells
you your position relative to the station, not the station's position relative
to your aircraft's nose.
So how do you use one? (Bear with me, I'm writing this not only so someone
else can understand, but also because I flew in a real plane last night and
used VOR navigation to do cross country flight for the first time ever, and
I'm trying to drill it into my own head)
To determine what radial you're on (i.e. which direction you'd face looking
from the station to your position), tune your VOR to the station and then set
the OBS to whatever setting centers the needle and gives a FROM indication.
Now you know what direction you'd face if you looked FROM the station to
your position.
If you center the needle and the indicator says TO, you know what magnetic
course you'd have to fly in order to get TO the station.
Uses of VOR:
to determine your position:
1) Tune station and use OBS knob to center needle with FROM indicator
2) Look on your chart and draw a line FROM the station along that
radial.
3) If you're equipped with DME and the VOR is either a VOR/DME or
VORTAC, you can tell exactly where you are by marking your position at
the indicated distance from the VOR along the radial you've just
drawn.
4) without DME, repeat 1 and 2 for a second station. You
are at the intersection of the two lines you've just drawn.
to fly to a station:
1) tune station and use OBS knob to center needle with TO indicator.
2) Fly the magnetic course (heading + wind corrction angle) indicated on
the OBS, keeping the needle centered.
to fly along a particular radial, i.e. Victor airway:
1) Tune station. Set OBS knob to desired radial.
2) Choose intercept angle which will cause needle to become centered:
ex: you're check your position, and the needle centers when you set
OBS on 050 with a FROM setting. You want to fly
outbound on the 023 radial. set the OBS to 023. The needle
will be to the left of center because the 023 radial would be
to your left if you were tracking the radial you're on right
now (050). Fly a course of less than 023, for example 353,
until the needle centers, then fly a course of 023.
3) Keep the needle centered by making gentle S-turns as the needle
drifts off center (either because your heading isn't quite right or
you aren't precisely correcting for wind). You're tracking the
radial outbound from the station. You can also track *inbound*, by
setting the OBS and flying with a TO indication.
That's enough. The pedant in me just ran out of steam, and your patience
probably did too. Hope this helped. And if any of it is wrong, well, I guess
I'll hear about it (if I don't get lost and crash first).
--
Tom Russo RHFHGSA FCATB TMA#4 WWW: http://www.swcp.com/~russo/
Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today, because if you like it
today you can do it again tomorrow.
NOTICE: Senders of unsolicited commercial email will be killed and eaten
W. and S. Young
Felix Roske wrote:
>
> MS FS is a commercial product, many people invested a lot of time and
> money!
>
> Maybe you should buy it. You even get a handbook with it, which will
> answer most of your questions! ;-)
Um, the person in question DID buy the sim, and has found the manual - like many people
- to be very weak at explaining neccesary things. :)
W. and S. Young
Roger G. Fischer wrote:
> VOR's can be very tricky. Hopefully this help.
> I hope that this helps.
Thank you for responding to this guy. I tried to help him in E-Mail, and we made a
little headway as far as explaining things, but I'm just not all that great at making
things clear - thanks for taking the time!
Frank van der Hulst
Eddie Galvez (ega...@walrus.com) wrote:
: Realism
: ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
: Fs 5 I know can get pretty realistic, but I'd like to know which setting of
: "Aircraft Reliability" is the closest to the "real thing?". I'm pretty sure
: the total right setting (9?) ='s no faults ever... And I'm sure that's not the
: truth.. I, with NO aircraft knowledge, think a 7.5 would be it.. Anyone else
: have ideas?
No idea really. I've never tried FS5 with anything less than total reliability.
As for reliability of real aircraft; I've had one Mag failure, and one
transponder failure (plus a couple of flaky radios) in 100 hours.
: World
: ŻŻŻŻŻ
: I know that the CDRom version says it includes a whole bunch of new airports..
: Does anyone have a clue on the percentage of Total World Airports? 30%? 50%?
Try 3-5%. The CDROM adds 200 airports. In NZ, it adds 3 airports out of about
90 certified airports. Probably twice that number of private strips.
--
fra...@kai.ee.cit.ac.nz Frank van der Hulst
This is my old account. For witty signature, etc
email me at fra...@pec.co.nz.
My home page is http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv
David Taylor
> >The VOR needle will deflect left if you are SOUTH of the VOR
>
>
> O
>
> <==
> OBS needle: LEFT? meaning, I should tilt my plane to the LEFT to
> 'interecpt or head" to vor.. arg don't work..
>
> oh.. now that I read below, LEFT refferent to OBS setting 090. soo...
> OH YEAH! .. oh no. oh arg
> I'd beleive you if OBS was reading 270...
>
> I am south, doesn't matter AIRPLANES heading right? ok
Correct! It doesn't matter which way the aircraft is headed, the VOR
presentation in the cockpit doesn't know which way the aircraft is
headed, only the heading to fly to intercept the given radial. Given the
above diagram, then of course yes you could *turn* right to intercept the
090 TO radial but given that the instrument doesn't know which way you
are headed all it tells you is that the 090 TO radial is to your left.
Don't treat the information as "which way to fly", yes it gives you this
too if you are interpreting the information as such but it is telling you
where the radial is relative to your heading.
David.
Eddie Galvez
In article <RUSSO.96A...@llama.swcp.com>, ru...@llama.swcp.com (Thomas Russo) wrote:
>Eddie> ILS, VOR
>[question about VORs & how to use them]
>My ground school instructor described VORs in terms of the following analogy.
>
> Imagine you're in a boat at night. There's a lighthouse in the distance.
> Every few minutes, the lighthouse keeper flashes the beacon, then goes for
<Snip bit of keepers life>
> (let's say for the sake of argument it takes 2 minutes for the circuit),
> he goes back in and flashes the beacon again to start the process over
> again.
hmmm
> From your point of view you can see only a flash of the beacon, and then
> some time later, when the keeper's lantern is pointed your way, a small
> flash of light.
Indeed.
> By measuring the time between the bright flash and the little flash, you
> can tell where you are relative to the lighthouse --- if you see the little
> flash immediately after the big one you're due north of the lighthouse. If
> you see it one minute after the big flash, you know you're due south.
Hey good! Yeah.
> Complicate the picture a bit: his lantern shines a white beam ahead of him
> and a red beam backward. If you see a red flash right after the beacon
> flash, you're due south, because he's due north and you see his back.
(transparent lighthouse? :)
Yeah hey this is getting better n better...
>Now, VORs work faster and with phased arrays of antennae instead of guys
>walking around with lanterns, but the concept is the same. A signal tells you
>what direction you'd be facing if you were to stand at the station and look
>at your position (FROM indicator),
OH. from is the direction the VOR should "FACE" you , hence the direction of
the radial HITTING you?
>or which direction you would would face if
>you stood at your position and looked directly at the station (TO).
ahahahahahAHHAHA. BRAVO. clap clap. Best definition of TO/From.
(Now lets see if my brain can apply that in flight)
>So how do you use one? (Bear with me, I'm writing this not only so someone
>else can understand, but also because I flew in a real plane last night and
>used VOR navigation to do cross country flight for the first time ever, and
>I'm trying to drill it into my own head)
Very good. Two stones , one shot.
[How did it go? Where did you fly from/to? Have the log? Share the path/vor's
used so I can do the same :)]
>To determine what radial you're on (i.e. which direction you'd face looking
>from the station to your position), tune your VOR to the station and then set
>the OBS to whatever setting centers the needle and gives a FROM indication.
>Now you know what direction you'd face if you looked FROM the station to
>your position.
Yeah, now you've drilled that into me. I was also told that. Now I'll take
that as a GIVEN and not even THINK about it.
Woups, but now.. euhm.. you told me this:
FROM "heading" on OBS = "direction the vor has to look to see your plane"
BUT. IF I set obs to read CENTER (hence, LOCKED ON RADIAL) , with a FROM, the
heading thats LOCKED on, .. euhm doesn't go with "VOR LOOKING AT YOU"
eg:
I am EAST of VOR. Hence vor has to look at 90degrees to see me. HENCE, a
90degree setting on OBS ='s FROM and CENTERED right?
ok.. remember I'm EAST, you say "Center needle with FROM".. which gives the
OBS setting of 90.. and IF I head 90.. I'll go away from the VOR...
WOUPPSSSS>... you were just telling me how to get the 'radial' I'm on.. WOUPS.
Nota i didn't delete the above, as it helped me drill this error even more :)
>If you center the needle and the indicator says TO, you know what magnetic
>course you'd have to fly in order to get TO the station.
BINGO BINGO BINGO!
>Uses of VOR:
>
> to determine your position:
Knew that.
> to fly to a station:
> 1) tune station and use OBS knob to center needle with TO indicator.
> 2) Fly the magnetic course (heading + wind corrction angle) indicated on
> the OBS, keeping the needle centered.
Roger that.
> to fly along a particular radial, i.e. Victor airway:
> 1) Tune station. Set OBS knob to desired radial.
> 2) Choose intercept angle which will cause needle to become centered:
> ex: you're check your position, and the needle centers when you set
> OBS on 050 with a FROM setting. You want to fly
Just checking, that means I'm approximately NEE of the VOR.
> outbound on the 023 radial. set the OBS to 023. The needle
> will be to the left of center because the 023 radial would be
> to your left if you were tracking the radial you're on right
> now (050). Fly a course of less than 023, for example 353,
> until the needle centers, then fly a course of 023.
I've heard that the 'norma' is to add the desired radial + - 30/45degree and
head that direction to intercept the vor.. (oh duh, you are on the 40 degree
mark :)
>That's enough. The pedant in me just ran out of steam, and your patience
>probably did too. Hope this helped. And if any of it is wrong, well, I guess
>I'll hear about it (if I don't get lost and crash first).
You bet! You cut me off! MayDay MayDay! Tower, I need clearence for takeoff
here!
Thanks a lottie. Liked your analogies. Hope this 'test' also helps YOU.
Eddie
ega...@walrus.com
http://www.walrus.com/~egalvez/
>
Eddie Galvez
In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.960829...@little-miami.iac.net>, Selmer Estenson <s...@iac.net> wrote:
>Eddie
>Roger and David gave you some good info. Let me add one more thing.
>Hope this doesnt add any confusion.
>You have the basic concept of the VOR.
>The confusion factor here is the to and from.
Bingo. Also, I was hoping I got one thing right: the "MAIN" setting
for the OBI is the TOP number isn't it?
[in fact I read this first THEN I replied, so I know OUF i was right]
>If you are going to use
>the 270 degree radial to fly to the vor you must dial in the number
>that is exactly opposite direction from 270 . Im assuming you know a
>180 degree turn is in the opposite direction. So 90 degrees is opposite
>of 270. This is assuming that you know you are west of the vor.
=) Assumptions ok.
>So if you are west of the vor and have 270 dialed in with the obi
>knob and the needle is centered you know you are on the 270 degree
>radial from. Of course if the from flag is on that also tells you
>that you are west of the vor.
Hmm.. I'm getting close to something here...
>Look at the dial and 270 will be on
>top of the face plate and 90 will be at the bottom. Now turn
>your obi knob till the 90 is at the top and now you will see the
>flag flip to indicate to.
AHA! When the TOP Number causes the flag to say TO, it means "Hey ,
pilot, head to the top number heading and you are going TO the vor, so as to
reach the OTHER side , where radial 90 is.. right?
And when it says from, its telling you "Hey dude, you're on the good side,
(and if needle centered) You're on the precise radial!"
but?
X <--plane, NE of VOR (o) . I'm on radial 45. If top number is 45,
o needle will be centered and say.. FROM?
right?
o
Now turn the plane so your compass reads
>90 degrees and you will be heading toward the vor on the 270 degree
Yehp
>Now you are on the 90 degree radial from the vor going east of the vor.
>Just remember a radial is a line that goes right thru the vor. The name
>of the radial switches 180 degrees after it passes thru the vor.
Sure thing
>
>Im sure you are totally confused now.
Naa..though I got to this conclusion, that I will always just center the
needle, not caring for TO / FROM, and pick the 'LOGICAL" heading.. assuming I
know where the VOR is from me.
Never hurts, even If I just want to know my position, as two lines (two VOR
readings) can only intersect once...
Thanks anyway, Ed
ega...@walrus.com
http://www.walrus.com/~egalvez/
Scott Macmillan
In article <RUSSO.96A...@llama.swcp.com>, Thomas Russo
<ru...@llama.swcp.com> writes
>
>Pardon me for jumping in here headfirst with both feet. VORs in MSFS work
>just the way they do in Real Life, so I'll share with you some things I've
>learned about them. An understanding of what VORs do and don't tell you will
>help you use them.
>
>
light house bit, but it all became clear at the end.
I have been taking flying lessons (not been up for a long time due to
lack of money), and I think I'll print out your expanation and keep it
with my ground school notes, just incase I stick at flying long enough
to get to doing radio navigation. If nothing else it'll help me get more
from FS5.
--
Best 73's DE Scott
GM7OMU - IO75tv.
Damon and Lisa Meyer
Selmer Estenson wrote:
>
> On Tue, 27 Aug 1996, Eddie Galvez wrote:
>
> >
> > I just can't understand something with VOR's...
> > I got VERY clear what it is, its this 'point' that sends signals 360degrees
> > around it. ok. Now, I could use it to HEAD to it (how would I do that? click
> > the knob , till the vertical line centers?)
> > ALSO: Why the **** does the instrument indicate FROM? I am obviously on the
> > South-West of the VOR emitter, and heading TO it.. I never could get a 270
> > reading say TO.. (as in - there is no 270 degree TO and a 270 degree FROM,
> > which would make sense wouldn't it?)
> Just remember a radial is a line that goes right thru the vor. The name
> of the radial switches 180 degrees after it passes thru the vor.
>
> Im sure you are totally confused now.
> Sam
Yikes. After reading Robbie, David, Sam et. al. on VORs, I have one
comment: You are
ALL making this more complicated than it is in the real world.
How a VOR works:
VORs are radio beacons that send out an omnidirectional (in all
directions)
synchronizing radio pulse, then immediately thereafter send out a
directional signal
that starts transmitting toward local magnetic north and sweeps rapidly
around in a
full circle. The receiver in your aircraft measures the small time
interval between
the synchronizing pulse and the directional signal to derive which
"radial" you are on.
This information is displayed on the Omni-Bearing Indicator (OBI) in the
instrument panel,
the dial with the needle inside and the bearings marked on an adjustable
ring around
the outside
How you interpret/use a VOR:
Making sure you are tuned to the correct VOR (check the Morse code
identifier). To fly
straight to or straight away from the VOR, adjust the OBI needle until
the needle is
centered. If the TO/FROM flag says FROM, you will be flying away from
the VOR if you turn
to the heading at the top of the OBI. If it says TO, you will be flying
toward the VOR if
you turn to the heading indicated at the top of the OBI. This instrument
gives position information ONLY, it tells you nothing about the
direction you are flying.
Basic VOR navigation is no more complicated than that, don't let anyone
try to make it so.
There are many more complex and useful ways to utilize VORs, but I am
trying to keep it simple
here and won't get into them unless someone wants to hear...
Regards,
Damon Meyer dme...@biddeford.com
http://www.biddeford.com/~dmeyer
Mark Brickley
In article: <RUSSO.96A...@llama.swcp.com> ru...@llama.swcp.com (Thomas Russo) writes:
> That's enough. The pedant in me just ran out of steam, and your patience
> probably did too. Hope this helped. And if any of it is wrong, well, I guess
> I'll hear about it (if I don't get lost and crash first).
By chance I am just struggling with VORs at this moment and the explanations on here have been
a significant help so thanks guys
(btw in passing I did buy the program and several books on the subject but new concepts sink
slowly through dense matter!)
--
Mark Brickley
Glynne Rees
In article <3224CB...@okla.net>, "W. and S. Young" <dyo...@okla.net>
writes
>
>The setting of 8 should be about right if you want "realism", but I'd
>personally go for 9 since FS5 dosn't simulate break-downs realistically
>in the first place.
I agree. There is no point in setting random problems if you are aware
of what is going to happen" Also, here does not seem to be any realistic
simulation of engine problems due to carb heat, our ASI problems because
of pitot freezing. It would be really useful if you suffered the
consequences of not using these facilities as they would normally be
required, which would be described as pilot error rather than equipment
failure.
A realistic simulation of inherant failures would be of little use,
mainly because in reality the instruments are very reliable and you
would be very unlikey to see any failures at all evens with hundreds of
hours sat at the FS5 screen.
>.. is not very realistic as far as civilian VFR flight goes.
I don't wholly agree with you here. There are, or course, limitations
with a simulator with no motion feedback and processing power limited to
that of a desk top PC.
There are plenty of challenges to be had whilst remaining within the VFR
flight scenario.
VFR flight is not neccessarily wholly dependant on navigation by ground
references. In fact a pilot can fly VFR in conditions where the ground
may not be visible, providing the priviliges of his license allow him to
do so. The absolute minimum for any VFR flight is usually VMC
conditions, which (in UK) can be as low as 1500m (lower for a
helicopter) or even above and clear of cloud, without sight of the
ground.
In real flying, even the PPL(a) license requires basic knowledge of the
use of the VOR and ADF, etc. In reality, most VFR flights are navigated
using a combination of ATSU advisories/instructions, visual references,
dead rekoning, and instruments.
I've also recently started to learmn to fly for real, and I am confident
that my experience on FS5 has saved a considerable time studying a lot
of stuff, and allows me to practice procedures and lessons before hand.
Let's not be too hard on FS5. I've had years of pleasure from it, and
for the price I think it represents on of the best value recreational
software packages around.
--
Glynne Rees