Did Fred Stewart kill Allen Barklage?
jb_n...@yahoo.com
about the safety of the mini-500. I'm one of the many Mini-500 owners
that prefer not to participate, just read, but I've seen all I can
stand.
I went to the latest meeting at Revolution, I've read the crap some
people have wrote here, and I've read the reports posted by Revolution
in answer to them and seen their proof. I honesty feel like Revolution
has gotten the shaft buy some of you people, and in the meantime you
drove down the value of my Mini-500. Now since I can't sell it, I can't
buy the new Voyager-500 yet. But my guess is that's what some of you
wanted, anything that would hurt Revolution.
This whole thing was started by Fred Stewart. I saw his add in the
Kitplanes magazine wanting to build his own design helicopter, and I
talked to Lee many times. What Revolution said about them is true!
Stewart and others called Dennis Fetters a killer, but I just learned
that the cause of Mr. Allen Barklages untimely engine failure was due to
some contamination left in his engine after decarbonizing it, and now I
hear that Fred Stewart was the guy who last worked on Allen's engine!!!
So, if he was, then he killed Allen if anyone did.
Bill Phillips was on the side of Revolution all the way up to the point
that Fred Stewart GAVE him a free Mini-500, then Bill's story changed. I
asked Dennis Fetters about this, and he sent me all the emails he had
from Bill, and it tells the story. You bet I won't be joining a group
ran by these type of people.
Some of you people say that Revolution has done nothing to help us
customers, and that's BULL! They sent out AD's on every problem they had
as soon as they had an answer for it. If you didn't follow them, or if
your crying because you didn't get them for free then that's different,
but they have always helped me. I did every AD that Revolution had, and
it's less then my Robinson has had, and a whole lot cheaper. I have
never flown a helicopter so affordably and worked on it so little as my
Mini. I've seen many Mini500's, even that one that Fred gave to Bill,
and it's no wonder some of you are having problems. I would never fly a
helicopter put together or maintained like most Mini's I've seen! I love
my Mini, and have only had the normal problems and used Revolutions
fixes.
I just came back from Revolution and flew the factory Mini with the Mast
support and it was great! The cracking problem is salved, and cheep
too! They even got the nose tuck out of it. It took a year to get it,
but I believe that was because of the time they had to spend in
defending themselves and the money they couldn't spend on it because of
the damage they got from some of you people. Then, you cry that you want
a fast solution, and then scream that you want 2000 hours of test time
on it first and then do everyting to slow then down... Man, get real.
The Mini-500 is a helicopter, and must be flown as one. Look at the NTSB
reports. ALL of them are pilot error, none due to the design of the
Mini. RHCI did an excellent accident report and all it got was reticule.
Even if there was only 50 Mini500's flying, the causes of the accidents
are the same, pilot error.
I'll get the hell flamed out of me for this, but so what. It's time
someone spoke out the truth. I will stick with Revolution, and so will
almost all of the 200+ people that went to their meeting and many that
couldn't. I know they got the guts to make it through this, I just wish
some of you people posting against Revolution had the guts to face the
truth.
John Newman
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
RonPilotPI
have to start with the kit manufacturer who appeared to be slow in responding
to problems. Then frustrated owners, whether justified or not, seemed to
develop their own agenda, and didn't continue attempts to work with the kit
manufacturer. Now we have two camps who are still not working or talking
together. Everyone loses.
It's not fair or appropriate to place blame for most of the accidents, until
the final NTSB reports are released.
And the pilot in command of any aircraft is ultimately responsible for the
maintenance, safety, and airworthiness of his ship. Even if others have worked
on it. And especially if he is listed as the "manufacturer".
Ron (kit helicopter sales prospect)
John Ammeter
>I have been watching this group ever since the discussions have started
>about the safety of the mini-500. I'm one of the many Mini-500 owners
>that prefer not to participate, just read, but I've seen all I can
>stand.
>
>I went to the latest meeting at Revolution, I've read the crap some
>people have wrote here, and I've read the reports posted by Revolution
>in answer to them and seen their proof. I honesty feel like Revolution
>has gotten the shaft buy some of you people, and in the meantime you
>drove down the value of my Mini-500. Now since I can't sell it, I can't
>buy the new Voyager-500 yet. But my guess is that's what some of you
>wanted, anything that would hurt Revolution.
>
>This whole thing was started by Fred Stewart. I saw his add in the
>Kitplanes magazine wanting to build his own design helicopter, and I
>talked to Lee many times. What Revolution said about them is true!
>Stewart and others called Dennis Fetters a killer, but I just learned
>that the cause of Mr. Allen Barklages untimely engine failure was due to
>some contamination left in his engine after decarbonizing it, and now I
>hear that Fred Stewart was the guy who last worked on Allen's engine!!!
>So, if he was, then he killed Allen if anyone did.
>
I was there when Fred delivered the M-500 to Bill Phillips. I helped
unload it from the trailer and I inspected that aircraft. I'm not a
helicopter pilot nor have I built a helicopter. I have built an RV-6
and I have inspected at least 50 homebuilt aircraft under
construction.
I was NOT impressed by the use of fiber lock nuts in the engine
compartment. I was NOT impressed by the use of 'pop-rivets' to hold
the tips on the tailrotor. I was NOT impressed by the forward swept
main blades.
I was especially NOT impressed when I watched Fred Stewart hover the
M-500 in a 5 to 7 knot wind. He was barely able to keep it in a hover
even while at full throttle. He was not able to turn the aircraft and
hover back onto the road. Everytime he tried to turn it he ran out of
sufficient power to keep it in a hover. He was forced to hover it
backwards up a slight slope onto the road.
>Bill Phillips was on the side of Revolution all the way up to the point
>that Fred Stewart GAVE him a free Mini-500, then Bill's story changed. I
>asked Dennis Fetters about this, and he sent me all the emails he had
>from Bill, and it tells the story. You bet I won't be joining a group
>ran by these type of people.
So you've read ALL of the emails Fetters gave you? Have you asked
Fred or Bill for their side of the story?
You sound unbelievably naive and ready to believe anything Fetters
says but won't even try to hear the whole story.
>
>Some of you people say that Revolution has done nothing to help us
>customers, and that's BULL! They sent out AD's on every problem they had
>as soon as they had an answer for it. If you didn't follow them, or if
>your crying because you didn't get them for free then that's different,
>but they have always helped me. I did every AD that Revolution had, and
>it's less then my Robinson has had, and a whole lot cheaper. I have
>never flown a helicopter so affordably and worked on it so little as my
>Mini.
How many hours do you have on your M-500? Have you flown it out of a
hover? Do you fly it over terrain or obstructions that preclude a
safe landing when your engine quits? Do you have sufficient life
insurance for your survivors?
I've seen many Mini500's, even that one that Fred gave to Bill,
>and it's no wonder some of you are having problems. I would never fly a
>helicopter put together or maintained like most Mini's I've seen! I love
>my Mini, and have only had the normal problems and used Revolutions
>fixes.
>
>I just came back from Revolution and flew the factory Mini with the Mast
>support and it was great! The cracking problem is salved, and cheep
>too! They even got the nose tuck out of it. It took a year to get it,
>but I believe that was because of the time they had to spend in
>defending themselves and the money they couldn't spend on it because of
>the damage they got from some of you people. Then, you cry that you want
>a fast solution, and then scream that you want 2000 hours of test time
>on it first and then do everyting to slow then down... Man, get real.
>
You say you've just been at the factory. Did you see the Voyager fly
out of a hover?
>The Mini-500 is a helicopter, and must be flown as one. Look at the NTSB
>reports. ALL of them are pilot error, none due to the design of the
>Mini. RHCI did an excellent accident report and all it got was reticule.
>Even if there was only 50 Mini500's flying, the causes of the accidents
>are the same, pilot error.
>
Of course, the NTSB says it was pilot error. Damn near every time a
plane goes down the NTSB will say it was pilot error. However,
Fetters chose that engine for the M-500 and it was the engine that
failed and caused the death of Gil and of Allen.
>I'll get the hell flamed out of me for this, but so what. It's time
>someone spoke out the truth. I will stick with Revolution, and so will
>almost all of the 200+ people that went to their meeting and many that
>couldn't. I know they got the guts to make it through this, I just wish
>some of you people posting against Revolution had the guts to face the
>truth.
>
I wish you would remove your head from the sand and face the FACTS.
>John Newman
>
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
John Ammeter
Seattle WA
USA
1975 Jensen Healey
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
EAA Technical Counselor
NRA Life Member
rleo...@twrol.com
jb_n...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I have been watching this group ever since the discussions have started
> about the safety of the mini-500. I'm one of the many Mini-500 owners
> that prefer not to participate, just read, but I've seen all I can
> stand.
>
> I went to the latest meeting at Revolution, I've read the crap some
> people have wrote here, and I've read the reports posted by Revolution
> in answer to them and seen their proof. I honesty feel like Revolution
> has gotten the shaft buy some of you people, and in the meantime you
> drove down the value of my Mini-500. Now since I can't sell it, I can't
> buy the new Voyager-500 yet. But my guess is that's what some of you
> wanted, anything that would hurt Revolution.
>
> This whole thing was started by Fred Stewart. I saw his add in the
> Kitplanes magazine wanting to build his own design helicopter, and I
> talked to Lee many times. What Revolution said about them is true!
> Stewart and others called Dennis Fetters a killer, but I just learned
> that the cause of Mr. Allen Barklages untimely engine failure was due to
> some contamination left in his engine after decarbonizing it, and now I
> hear that Fred Stewart was the guy who last worked on Allen's engine!!!
> So, if he was, then he killed Allen if anyone did.
>
> that Fred Stewart GAVE him a free Mini-500, then Bill's story changed. I
> asked Dennis Fetters about this, and he sent me all the emails he had
> from Bill, and it tells the story. You bet I won't be joining a group
> ran by these type of people.
>
> customers, and that's BULL! They sent out AD's on every problem they had
> as soon as they had an answer for it. If you didn't follow them, or if
> your crying because you didn't get them for free then that's different,
> but they have always helped me. I did every AD that Revolution had, and
> it's less then my Robinson has had, and a whole lot cheaper. I have
> never flown a helicopter so affordably and worked on it so little as my
> and it's no wonder some of you are having problems. I would never fly a
> helicopter put together or maintained like most Mini's I've seen! I love
> my Mini, and have only had the normal problems and used Revolutions
> fixes.
>
> I just came back from Revolution and flew the factory Mini with the Mast
> support and it was great! The cracking problem is salved, and cheep
> too! They even got the nose tuck out of it. It took a year to get it,
> but I believe that was because of the time they had to spend in
> defending themselves and the money they couldn't spend on it because of
> the damage they got from some of you people. Then, you cry that you want
> a fast solution, and then scream that you want 2000 hours of test time
> on it first and then do everyting to slow then down... Man, get real.
>
> reports. ALL of them are pilot error, none due to the design of the
> Mini. RHCI did an excellent accident report and all it got was reticule.
> Even if there was only 50 Mini500's flying, the causes of the accidents
> are the same, pilot error.
>
> someone spoke out the truth. I will stick with Revolution, and so will
> almost all of the 200+ people that went to their meeting and many that
> couldn't. I know they got the guts to make it through this, I just wish
> some of you people posting against Revolution had the guts to face the
> truth.
>
>
Anybody but me see an awesome correlation between the writing
style of the new, first time, one time poster, J. Newman and
Mrs Fetters ? The reticules on you honey.
Ray
O-ring Seals
history of this helicopter. I'm not going to argue with you in this
open forum about your lack of understanding the facts. I would like
to say one thing however. I was not bought and paid for by that
helicopter from Fred Stewart. Read John Ammeter's post concerning
what we saw the day Fred delivered the ship. I spoke with John and
Carl Johansson that day in my garage and told them both that I felt
completely over my head with this ship. I've built 4 airplanes from
scratch in my life and rebuilt many others. There were things on this
machine that were blatantly wrong. I spoke with Dennis that very day
when Fred was in the process of unloading the machine. Dennis agreed
to help me in any way he could to get this ship up to par.
The very next day Dennis turned cold on me. I think he assumed I'd
been bought and paid for by Fred, Rinke and the rest of the gang.
That was not the case. I emailed him about the deficiencies in my
main rotor and tail rotor blades. He agreed that they were unsafe and
told me not to "spin it up." His next move was to require our
organization to pay the $750 transfer of ownership fee even though
this machine was donated to a charitable organization which did not
have the funds. After some email back and forth it became clear to me
that I would need to pay that money in order to even buy parts...any
parts. I was about to do that when I decided that it would probably
be a waste of our time since many of those who already had machines
felt like they were getting poor support, service and inferior parts.
I just kicked back for a couple weeks to see what was going to shake
out before I asked the group to pay the $750. Many things developed
over that period.
What Fred did was put me in a situation very similar to the one he and
many other Mini owners had been in for some time. I was sitting here
helping Dennis tell his side of it but I knew nothing about what he
was like to deal with by someone who actually owned one. Fred donated
his $30,000 machine in order to show me just what dealing with Dennis
is like. I found there was no slack in dealing with Dennis. It was
ALL Dennis' way or no way at all. I couldn't have had that experience
unless I had a machine and needed RHCI's help. So, yes, I did turn
around in my opinion of Dennis Fetters. Only two or three weeks
earlier he was falling all over himself telling me that he and Laura
would do anything possible in any way to help me since I had spoken
openly in their favor here on this forum. At that time I had no idea
we would have a ship within only a month.
Well, when we got our ship, Dennis' support vanished instantly. He
wouldn't even agree to let us pay the $750 at a later time in order to
expedite the fixes for our tail rotor blades...which only cost $65.00
by the way. I have emailed him many times since then and have
received no replies. Dennis was calling me on the telephone twice a
week when I could help him. He vanished when he could help me.
So, for this reason, I have changed my mind about him. I feel like
the guy abandoned me after he agreed to help us get this thing fixed.
I point-blank asked him over the telephone about accepting this gift
from Fred. Many weeks before that helicopter arrived at my door I had
spoken with Dennis and he had agreed to give us all the support he
possibly could. I told him I would not accept this machine or the
donation without his help and approval. He agreed to do anything we
needed to do to bring it up to the most current safety standards.
That obviously didn't happen. Then additionally his snotty little
marketing jerk Mike Phillips sent me some rude emails and made some
rude postings on this group. Do a Deja-news on him and see for
yourself. If Mike Phillips worked for me I'd give him no more
authority than to represent the "Men's" room in my company.
There is much more to this story that changed my mind too but this is
the highlight of it. So, you can believe anything you want to
believe. You can believe that I was bought and paid for by that ship.
If that's the case why did I give it away to someone else in less than
two months? You, sir make many assumptions with a lack of data or
real facts.
Bill Phillips
JDana2
better. The ones that are are being castigated! Fred Stewart offers a view
outside of Revolutions' . I wish more people had the guts to do so. The
business of the experimental aircraft assoc. is to experiment. If you read your
contract that revolution made you sign , you can't do that! Why is that? It is
self obvious that Mr. Fetters doesn't want competition ! You should see what he
attempted to do to Mr Reinke in a law suit. The trouble with Revolution is that
I am never sure that I am hearing the truth about anything.Why did it take a
man from texas to come up with a wonderful fix for the airframe problem when
Revolution knew about it and did nothing? I recently purchased a mini 500 and
will only fly it after I put in a different engine. I did not and will not sign
any contract with Revolution that prevents me from doing so. The thing that
makes the American people great is we allow competition and that's the only way
things get improved! I don't meann to pick on you but I really think you
shouldn't pick on Fred. JDA...@aol.com
John Ammeter
<BAFRANK@**SpamBlock**worldnet.att.net>
>> This whole thing was started by Fred Stewart. I saw his add in the
>> Kitplanes magazine wanting to build his own design helicopter, and I
>> talked to Lee many times. What Revolution said about them is true!
>> Stewart and others called Dennis Fetters a killer, but I just learned
>> that the cause of Mr. Allen Barklages untimely engine failure was due to
>> some contamination left in his engine after decarbonizing it, and now I
>> hear that Fred Stewart was the guy who last worked on Allen's engine!!!
>> So, if he was, then he killed Allen if anyone did.
>
>John,
>
>I have not been following all of this thread so I don't know the details
>of Allen Barklage's death. Why did an engine stoppage lead to a fatal
>crash? Low altitude? What?
He was over some electrical transmission lines when the engine quit.
He tried to extend his 'glide' to clear the wires but failed and,
consequently, arrived rather than landed. Were it not for his low
altitude over the wires he likely would have auto-rotated successfully
to a safe landing.
Gil's death was very similar in that he was over trees when his engine
quit. He, also, was unable to safely auto-rotate to the ground.
I suppose someone could stretch a point and say that their deaths were
due to pilot error in that they were too low to safely auto-rotate
when the engine quit. However, if the engine chosen for the M-500 had
not failed they would still be alive.
This engine has to run at 100% power output to hover. It was not made
to run at this setting for more than a very short time.
Ric Lee
I have no desire to flame you, I just question your motives. Not being
a helo pilot myself or knowing what makes a helicopter safe or marginal
puts me on the sidelines in this debate. Much like yourself, I have
been
content to just read the various threads that have surfaced on the Mini-
500 over the past year.
The owners of the Mini-500 that post on r.a.r and r.a.h. have impressed
me
with their intelligence, thoughtfulness and knowledge on helicopters.
With
the exception of one or two posters that obviously have an axe to grind
with
Mr. Fetters the Mini-500 owners are trying to make it a safer ship.
Look at how many hours some of these pilots had that crashed their
Mini-500's.
That alone should give you something to ponder. If someone with as many
hours
as Allen Barklage gets bitten by one what chance does a low time helo
pilot have?
I've been around many homebuilt aircraft and most of them are built
better that
what the current factories produce. The ones that look ratty are few
and far
between. Why should a kit built helicopter be any different? Bill
Phillips says
the workmanship on Fred Stewarts Mini-500 was first rate. What he has a
problem
with is the quality of the components that went into it. Most of these
pilots just
want a safe ship to fly. I for one don't think that's too much to ask.
Ric Lee
Berkut under construction
you know what to remove to reply
jb_n...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> I have been watching this group ever since the discussions have started
> about the safety of the mini-500. I'm one of the many Mini-500 owners
> that prefer not to participate, just read, but I've seen all I can
> stand.
>
> I went to the latest meeting at Revolution, I've read the crap some
> people have wrote here, and I've read the reports posted by Revolution
> in answer to them and seen their proof. I honesty feel like Revolution
> has gotten the shaft buy some of you people, and in the meantime you
> drove down the value of my Mini-500. Now since I can't sell it, I can't
> buy the new Voyager-500 yet. But my guess is that's what some of you
> wanted, anything that would hurt Revolution.
>
> This whole thing was started by Fred Stewart. I saw his add in the
> Kitplanes magazine wanting to build his own design helicopter, and I
> talked to Lee many times. What Revolution said about them is true!
> Stewart and others called Dennis Fetters a killer, but I just learned
> that the cause of Mr. Allen Barklages untimely engine failure was due to
> some contamination left in his engine after decarbonizing it, and now I
> hear that Fred Stewart was the guy who last worked on Allen's engine!!!
> So, if he was, then he killed Allen if anyone did.
>
Ken Leander
designed to inflame. Accusing someone of killing their best friend would
fit into that category. This post was from someone with no other recorded
postings under that name. It was posted via the relatively untraceable Deja
News using a Macintosh PPC, and Netscape 4.04. I did not find a 'John
Newman' on Fred Stewarts web page listing Mini-500 owners. Nor could I find
a record of jb_n...@yahoo.com on Yahoo, Bigfoot, or Infospace. It seems
the author of this post is fictitious. There is a record of a John Newman
that wrote a book 'Oswald and the CIA '. Who knows, maybe we are being
treated to some shenanigans by said author.
Nevertheless, I'll repost the information learned about the Mini-500 again.
It's important that anyone considering buying or flying that kit, be
informed of the problems with it.
Of a fleet of a little over 400 low time aircraft, 45 have crashed with 9
fatalities. The NTSB has reported there are an alarming number of
unexplained engine malfunctions. RHCI designed the Mini-500 with a little
64 HP, Rotax 582. The little engine is required to lift 13.13 lbs gross
weight per horsepower. That's more than any other small kit helicopter and
would require main rotor blades and transmission of exceptional quality,
something that many Mini-500 owners do not attest to. Many Mini-500 owners
have reported other problems than the engine or carburetor. The list of
problems is rather long and research on this subject can easily be achieved
by searching Deja News.
--
References:
Fred Stewarts web page:
http://www.mini500.com/kits.html
My helicopter weight page calculations:
http://home.earthlink.net/~kenleander/_private/pages/helicopter.htm
NTSB report NOT appearing on RHCI web site:
http://www.ntsb.gov/Aviation/NYC/lnarr_98A154.htm
--
Ken Leander
Austin, Texas
jb_n...@yahoo.com wrote in message <7dlknj$72v$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>I have been watching this group ever since the discussions have started
>about the safety of the mini-500. I'm one of the many Mini-500 owners
>that prefer not to participate, just read, but I've seen all I can
>stand.
<snipped>
>I just wish some of you people posting against Revolution had the guts
>to face the truth.
>
>John Newman
>
>
Bill Moffitt
jb_n...@yahoo.com wrote:
<all snipped>
After reading this, I had to come out from lurking on this group.
I just finished reading a couple of replies to this message: both authors
indicated that they felt that this message was sent by Mrs. Fetters. So I
decided to do a little cyber investigation of my own.
Look at the misspelling of the word "ridicule" (reticule). Now do a
dejanews search of rec.aviation.rotorcraft with just this misspelled word
(reticule). Only one source message is found: that of RHCI sales'
"accident investigation" by Mrs. Fetters.
Next, look at the misspelled word "solved" (salved). Another dejanews
search finds three source messages with this same misspelled word. Two were
from "Dennis Fetters", the third was from "RHCI".
If Mr/Mrs Fetters turns out to be the one who actually wrote this piece of
libel, they would take my vote for the most despicable person of the year.
In fact, if Mr. Stewart decides to sue them, I'll be the first to throw in a
couple of hundred bucks to the cause.
--
Bill Moffitt
terra
> Some posts are trolls (deceptive, inciting, dishonest posts) deliberately
> designed to inflame. Accusing someone of killing their best friend would
> fit into that category. This post was from someone with no other recorded
> postings under that name. It was posted via the relatively untraceable Deja
> News using a Macintosh PPC, and Netscape 4.04.
<snip>
Ken, I share your suspicions.
On 3/7/99 the article "Complete Mini-500 Accident Analysis, By RHCI" was
posted thru DejaNews by someone from RHCI using a Mac PPC and Netscape.
It also seems odd for "John Newman" to start right off with a focused attack
against Fred Stewart. This sounds more like it comes from RHCI.
And that word... RETICULE... again!
woof!
Tony P
I found your post interesting. It reflects a perspective of one who
has read all of Dennis Fetters' stuff and given it credence, and given
no credence to the information developed by the "other side" (assuming
there are two sides, or only two -- I wonder sometimes).
My perspective is often to listen to those who've read all the
ANTI-Fetters stuff and believed it, but given no credence to Fetters'
information. I beat my head against that wall all the time, because
some of those folks have become so emotional that they credit Fetters
with evil motives I doubt. (I'm a skeptic; I think businesspeople do
that which is businesslike and generates profits. If it turns out to
disadvantage others -- which can happen -- I STILL don't credit evil
motives. Fetters hasn't been perfect (he's flown off the handle a few
times and taken excessive positions too) but neither is he a demon.
I read Fetters' stuff. I think there's some good information there,
and it needs to be considered. And I take some of it with a grain of
salt as I would any advocate's presentation. I read the stuff posted by
Fetters' seeming adversaries. Some of it has been pure poison (Esteban,
for example), some occasionally overwrought (Fred seems to have good
intentions has also gotten angry), some downright fair and balanced. I
particularly enjoyed Gil Armbruster's comments and corresponded with him
at length.
Right now, I look at the situation of the kitbuilders. I have
maintained for a year that hysterical, negative media coverage was a
disservice to kit owners. Adventure Air was destroyed by it and the kit
owners left orphans (only now is the world realizing that the hysteria
was unfair and perhaps badly-motivated). There are people who have had
personal interests which have outweighted telling the simply truth.
Here's where I get myself in trouble. I think one particular journalist
has permitted his personal interest in posturing as a consumer advocate
and being identified with "saving lives" to outweigh the interests of
the kit owners. Those excesses polarized the builders and kit owners.
Then Dennis Fetters reacted angrily. I suspect (and hope) he regrets
some of his statements. I think he alienated a large fraction of the
kit owners and gave the impression he was attempting to stifle dissent
and channel all information through himself, while censoring what people
learned of problems. As a result, many builders (and I've spoken with
many on EACH side of the fence) feel that however much truth there MIGHT
be in Fetters' information, he CANNOT be trusted as a sole source of
either information or enhancements.
Did I say *I* don't feel Fetters can be trusted? NO; he's never lied
to me so far. My criticisms of him have to do with lack of objectivity
and balance. But he IS a manufacturer, and he HAS interests that
conflict with those of kit builders. He has shown an unreasonable
animosity toward ANY effort at independent organization or dissemination
of information. I cannot take his statement that he refuses to deal
with any "members" of a builders' organization as anything but
retaliation.
These positions are almost calculated to increase mistrust. Arrogance
and refusal to communicate and cooperate on either side places personal
interests above those of the builders. ALL of the builders need the
research and enhancements being worked on independently, just as ALL
need the improvements and fixes Fetters has generated as a manufacturer
behaving responsibly toward kit owners. It is irresponsible for any
manufacturer to either threaten or refuse to permit access to safety
modifications to ANY kit owner, and it is irresponsible for any
manufacturer to interfere with access by any kit owner to safety
enhancements from outside sources.
I haven't heard Fetters' final word on this. I'm hoping he does the
ethical thing and publicly states his intention to:
1. Make any factory enhancements available freely and without penalty
to all owners;
2. In no way interfere with the availability of independently-generated
enhancements or the right of owners to purchase or develop them. I
suspect any other position is not only legally untenable, but subjects
the company to liabilities no rational businessman would undertake.
At the same time, I strongly feel it is of no value to publicly berate,
bait or harangue Fetters. Common sense dictates that his cooperation
will be gained only if he can do so with dignity and a sense of
fairness. Some people (like Esteban) probably need to be ostracized and
ignored by those on both sides, as mere provocateurs with no
self-control, who add nothing for anybody to the dialogue. Others
simply need to communicate with tact.
I do not speak for either side, though I have offered my assistance to
the builders recently on some issues and indeed to Mr. Fetters himself,
in the past, on other issues. I've done my best to open channels of
communication on both sides. To date, I've had success with the
"independent" builders' organization and little response from Mr.
Fetters.
I would suggest that your best course is to hope you are able to
benefit from the work and enhancements produced by both groups, and that
they can work together for YOUR benefit. Contributing to the
polarization of the situation by making inflammatory and unjustifiable
accusations does not good. It would be better for ALL builders -- those
who still maintain good relations with Fetters especially -- to urge him
to take the above steps AND to himself attempt to ameliorate the
hostility.
There are cool heads and there is an ocean of talent out there. I
watched a roomful of "independent" kit owners refuse to take a position
hostile to RHCI, despite the rhetoric of an associated journalist. I
watched them make decisions regarding the structure of an organization
that were calculated to foster cooperation. I watched them consciously,
and resoundingly, reject any "anti-RHCI" charter or purpose. And I have
watched them act on those decisions.
I'd say the ball is in Mr. Fetters' court AND in the builders'
organization's court. Both need to act on this, and now is the time.
Stonewalling will only waste the first and perhaps last opportunity to
salvage EVERYTHING for the builders.
Tony Pucillo
jb_n...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> I have been watching this group ever since the discussions have started
> about the safety of the mini-500. I'm one of the many Mini-500 owners
> that prefer not to participate, just read, but I've seen all I can
> stand.
>
> couldn't. I know they got the guts to make it through this, I just wish
> some of you people posting against Revolution had the guts to face the
> truth.
>
> John Newman
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
--
Castigat ridendo mores. <Laughter succeeds where lecturing won't.>
I speak only for myself unless otherwise stated. One personality is
enough, thank you.
Tony P
Bad time, bad place. Allen was about as skilled at autorotating that
aircraft as anyone could be. Powerlines and low altitude on takeoff
caused a glide to be extended too far, or so I read.
Damned shame, and it brought out the worst in too many people.
Tony Pucillo
Bruce A. Frank wrote:
>
> > This whole thing was started by Fred Stewart. I saw his add in the
> > Kitplanes magazine wanting to build his own design helicopter, and I
> > talked to Lee many times. What Revolution said about them is true!
> > Stewart and others called Dennis Fetters a killer, but I just learned
> > that the cause of Mr. Allen Barklages untimely engine failure was due to
> > some contamination left in his engine after decarbonizing it, and now I
> > hear that Fred Stewart was the guy who last worked on Allen's engine!!!
> > So, if he was, then he killed Allen if anyone did.
>
> John,
>
> I have not been following all of this thread so I don't know the details
> of Allen Barklage's death. Why did an engine stoppage lead to a fatal
> crash? Low altitude? What?
> --
> Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
> BAF...@worldnet.att.net Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
> | Publishing interesting material|
> | on all aspects of alternative |
> | engines and homebuilt aircraft.|
> *------------------------------**----*
> \(-o-)/ AIRCRAFT PROJECTS CO.
> \___/ Manufacturing parts & pieces
> / \ for homebuilt aircraft,
> 0 0 TIG welding
>
> While trying to find the time to finish mine.
Micbloo
>Anybody but me see an awesome correlation between the writing
>style of the new, first time, one time poster, J. Newman and
>Mrs Fetters ?
Cool conspiracy theory!!!
I was kinda thinking the same thing though not necessary Mrs. Fetters!!
Gerard
Micbloo
>> has gotten the shaft buy some of you people, and in the meantime you
>> drove down the value of my Mini-500
If you love your Mini so much why are you worried about the depreciation of
value?
Huh?? Thinking of selling it?
Gerard
Micbloo
>postings under that name. It was posted via the relatively untraceable Deja
News
Ah HA!!
Good investigative work, Ken!!!
Gerard
Carl gonzo johansson
>I have been watching this group ever since the discussions have started
>about the safety of the mini-500. I'm one of the many Mini-500 owners
>that prefer not to participate, just read, but I've seen all I can
>stand.
>
>I went to the latest meeting at Revolution, I've read the crap some
>people have wrote here, and I've read the reports posted by Revolution
>in answer to them and seen their proof. I honesty feel like Revolution
>has gotten the shaft buy some of you people, and in the meantime you
>drove down the value of my Mini-500. Now since I can't sell it, I can't
>buy the new Voyager-500 yet. But my guess is that's what some of you
>wanted, anything that would hurt Revolution.
>
>This whole thing was started by Fred Stewart. I saw his add in the
>Kitplanes magazine wanting to build his own design helicopter, and I
>talked to Lee many times. What Revolution said about them is true!
>Stewart and others called Dennis Fetters a killer, but I just learned
>that the cause of Mr. Allen Barklages untimely engine failure was due to
>some contamination left in his engine after decarbonizing it, and now I
>hear that Fred Stewart was the guy who last worked on Allen's engine!!!
>So, if he was, then he killed Allen if anyone did.
>
>Bill Phillips was on the side of Revolution all the way up to the point
>that Fred Stewart GAVE him a free Mini-500, then Bill's story changed. I
>asked Dennis Fetters about this, and he sent me all the emails he had
>from Bill, and it tells the story. You bet I won't be joining a group
>ran by these type of people.
>
>Some of you people say that Revolution has done nothing to help us
>customers, and that's BULL! They sent out AD's on every problem they had
>as soon as they had an answer for it. If you didn't follow them, or if
>your crying because you didn't get them for free then that's different,
>but they have always helped me. I did every AD that Revolution had, and
>it's less then my Robinson has had, and a whole lot cheaper. I have
>never flown a helicopter so affordably and worked on it so little as my
>Mini. I've seen many Mini500's, even that one that Fred gave to Bill,
>and it's no wonder some of you are having problems. I would never fly a
>helicopter put together or maintained like most Mini's I've seen! I love
>my Mini, and have only had the normal problems and used Revolutions
>fixes.
>John Newman
John,
As president and CEO of the non-profit organization which now owns the
purple people eater built by Fred,
We are only concerned with making that machine safe to fly and
functional (to serve our mission needs.)
Since your machine is so usable and low maintainance I would be very
interested in seeing your mini and talking with you about the things
that you do to keep your mini safe and flying.
Would you be available for us to come and see your mini and talk with
you??
Can we contact you by phone and "pick your brain".
I am very serious about this -- it seems as though you have alot of
information and ideas to offer, and we would love to talk with you
about this. All we want is a safe capable helicopter, and it sounds
like you have accomplished this goal.
you can e-mail me direct
birdb...@mindspring.com
Or call me
1-559-434-1092
Thanks
Carl Johansson
fste...@mini500.com
jb_n...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I have been watching this group ever since the discussions have started
> about the safety of the mini-500. I'm one of the many Mini-500 owners
> that prefer not to participate, just read, but I've seen all I can
> stand.
Maybe if you had participated in the group and since you have such a pristine
ship without any problems, Gil, Allen and several others may have been saved.
Instead you lurk in the dark waiting to see what others will do for you.
There was a lot more activity on the newsgroup awhile back then there is now,
why did you choose to participate now that the activity has died down on the
group?
> I went to the latest meeting at Revolution, I've read the crap some
> people have wrote here, and I've read the reports posted by Revolution
> in answer to them and seen their proof. I honesty feel like Revolution
> has gotten the shaft buy some of you people, and in the meantime you
> drove down the value of my Mini-500. Now since I can't sell it, I can't
> buy the new Voyager-500 yet. But my guess is that's what some of you
> wanted, anything that would hurt Revolution.
I'm really sorry that you feel that Revolution has gotten the shaft by some
of us, but we ALL got the shaft from Revolution. We did not drive down the
value, RHCI did that all by themselves. Someday you will thank all of us for
you not being able to buy the Voyager. Why do you want to sell your Mini
anyway if you are having such a great time flying it? Let the Voyager fly
for a while and in the meantime enjoy your great Mini-500.
>
> This whole thing was started by Fred Stewart. I saw his add in the
> Kitplanes magazine wanting to build his own design helicopter, and I
> talked to Lee many times. What Revolution said about them is true!
> Stewart and others called Dennis Fetters a killer, but I just learned
> that the cause of Mr. Allen Barklages untimely engine failure was due to
> some contamination left in his engine after decarbonizing it, and now I
> hear that Fred Stewart was the guy who last worked on Allen's engine!!!
> So, if he was, then he killed Allen if anyone did.
The whole thing started with me, sorry it was Dennis Fetters. I definitely
placed an add in Kitplanes looking for engineers for a 2 place. Is there
something wrong with this? Is there just supposed to be one kit helicopter?
Dennis Fetters does not own me. He would like to I'm sure. I do not work
for him or answer to him. I am an individual that makes my own decisions.
You say you just LEARNED that Allen Barklage decarbonized his engine and I
did that. Where did you LEARN that. Allen's engine was never de-carbonized,
ever, period. I wonder where you heard that crap. Then you HEAR that I was
the last to work on it. Where did you HEAR crap? I will tell you this though,
I definitely feel responsible for Allen's death. You are right in a sense.
If I would never have let Allen fly my aircraft, if I would have never
introduced him to Dennis Fetters, if only I had not talked him into going to
the factory and giving Demonstrations for RHCI, he would be alive today. I
think about him every day of my life and I feel a larger responsiblity for
his death, after all I finally sold him an aircraft and enticed him to buy it
by reducing the price $10,000.oo. So if you wanted me to feel the sting of
your SUBJECT, you have succeeded, I will feel this guilt for the rest of my
life. I do not sleep well at night knowing what happened and I ask myself
every day, what could I have done to prevent it. I am still friends of
Allens's family and feel honored that they do not hold me responsible.
Richard and Larry are like my own family. If I could bring Allen back I
would give up all my worldly goods and my life in a heartbreat to have him
back. I miss him very much. He did not deserve to die, he had a false
security provided by RHCI.
>
> Bill Phillips was on the side of Revolution all the way up to the point
> that Fred Stewart GAVE him a free Mini-500, then Bill's story changed. I
> asked Dennis Fetters about this, and he sent me all the emails he had
> from Bill, and it tells the story. You bet I won't be joining a group
> ran by these type of people.
Bill was never on RHCI's side, before the Mini-500 was donated, I asked Bill
to make sure that Dennis would help him in getting the ship up to standards.
I did not want Bill to be in a situation where the helicopter was completely
unuseful. Bill had many conversations with Dennis and was told that Dennis
would support him in every way he could. I asked Bill to tell RHCI where the
ship was coming from so that Dennis was not surprised. Dennis was well aware
of the condition of the ship. The workmanship was outstanding, and had less
than 20 hours on it. Dennis was going to help Bill get it to a Bravo model.
After the ship was donated Dennis cut Bill off instantly. Dennis knew he
could not do what he had bragged to Bill along. He knew he could not upgrade
the ship to safe standards.
>
> Some of you people say that Revolution has done nothing to help us
> customers, and that's BULL! They sent out AD's on every problem they had
> as soon as they had an answer for it. If you didn't follow them, or if
> your crying because you didn't get them for free then that's different,
> but they have always helped me. I did every AD that Revolution had, and
> it's less then my Robinson has had, and a whole lot cheaper. I have
> never flown a helicopter so affordably and worked on it so little as my
> Mini.
What AD's have you performed on your ship, I'm sure the group would love to
hear how you have succeeded where the rest of us have failed? Did the AD's
fix all your problems. If you performed all the previous AD's then why are
you going to have to use the mast support? Didn't the previous AD's fix your
frame problem? How many hours are on your ship? What kit number is yours, I
can't find any information on your ship? Where are you located? How often
do you fly?
>I've seen many Mini500's, even that one that Fred gave to Bill,
> and it's no wonder some of you are having problems. I would never fly a
> helicopter put together or maintained like most Mini's I've seen! I love
> my Mini, and have only had the normal problems and used Revolutions
> fixes.
You make it sound like there was something wrong with the Mini-500 that was
donated to Bill's organization. Did you see something wrong on the aircraft,
if so you should tell people, you might save someone's life. Actually RHCI
liked the aircraft so much they used pictures of the aircraft in there
brochures, look for the purple Mini-500. Look at
http://www.mini500.com/broc3.jpg RHCI also used my green aircraft in there
brochures. http://www.mini500.com/broc4.jpg I would think if there would
have been something wrong then RHCI would never have used my aircraft. At
the airshows Dennis insisted that my aircraft be on the front row for
inspection by spectators.
>
> I just came back from Revolution and flew the factory Mini with the Mast
> support and it was great! The cracking problem is salved, and cheep
> too! They even got the nose tuck out of it. It took a year to get it,
> but I believe that was because of the time they had to spend in
> defending themselves and the money they couldn't spend on it because of
> the damage they got from some of you people. Then, you cry that you want
> a fast solution, and then scream that you want 2000 hours of test time
> on it first and then do everyting to slow then down... Man, get real.
We did not promise 2000 hours, RHCI did. http://www.mini500.com/broc1.jpg
Read what the paragraph next to the picture of the tail rotor. Does it not
say "the components have a 2000 hour TBO"? You flew the factory ship and in
one flight determined that the frame cracks were fixed. How do you know they
got the nose tuck out of it, did you do autorotations? Is the trim tab still
on the tail section? I would really be interested in how RHCI acomplished
this feat. How do you know the frame problem is fixed, did Dennis say so?
It is really odd that Norm Serrano did not verify RHCI's fixes. Here is the
letter that Norman wrote to our organization to be read at the Florida
meeting, word for word.
"Hello to you, my friends and acquaintances in the aviation industry. I'm
sorry that I cannot be with you today, but I have a conflicting commitment to
lecture on tracking and balancing for Revolution Helicopter. Obviously, I'm
disappointed at the decision to hold these meetings at the same time.
More importantly, I want to respond to Revolution Helicopter's recent
newsletter regarding my role in solving their airframe problems. Plain and
simple: I have not been involved. All engineering efforts addressing the
airframe cracking problems have been performed solely by Revolution
Helicopter, with no assistance or input from me, regardless of what their
newsletter may imply.
As always,if you are experiencing tracking and balancing or other vibration
problems, I would be eager to hear from you.
Sincerely,
Norman Serrano"
Now why do you think Norm wrote that letter, is it because RHCI sent out a
newsletter telling everyone that RHCI had brought in Norm to verify there
findings on the problems of the Mini-500. RHCI lied to you all plain and
simple and people still believe his crap. It is amazing that even when they
are proven to lie people like you still place the blame on people like me.
As you can see from Norm's letter he states that he had no input or
assistance in addressing the problems. Why do you think Dennis would print
that in a newsletter and then send that to hundreds of customers? He was
using Norm's good name to convince unsuspecting future customers to buy
aircraft at Norm's expense. That is the Fetters way. Why do you think Norm
wrote that letter? He wrote in to address the lies that the newsletter
printed. Read the letter closely.
>
> The Mini-500 is a helicopter, and must be flown as one. Look at the NTSB
> reports. ALL of them are pilot error, none due to the design of the
> Mini. RHCI did an excellent accident report and all it got was reticule.
> Even if there was only 50 Mini500's flying, the causes of the accidents
> are the same, pilot error.
Read the real NTSB reports not RHCI's stupid analysis. Get real. I think
most of us fly it like a real helicopter, it is the only way I know how to
fly it. We have all learned that you cannot fly over anything but flat and
level ground, no obstructions of any type and you may be ok. The engine Will
quit. I would really like to see you fly your Mini sometime and demonstrate
an autorotation at 70 mph for us and show how to do it without the nose tuck.
Dennis probably came up with a new way to autorotate. "RHCI did an excellent
accident report and all it got was reticule". I guess they did, they changed
all the NTSB reports to read their own way. Why didn't they just print the
NTSB reports themselves? Again what is reticule? Next time spell ridicule
this way and your posts wont be so obvious as to the author. Use a spell
checker.
>
> I'll get the hell flamed out of me for this, but so what. It's time
> someone spoke out the truth. I will stick with Revolution, and so will
> almost all of the 200+ people that went to their meeting and many that
> couldn't. I know they got the guts to make it through this, I just wish
> some of you people posting against Revolution had the guts to face the
> truth.
>
> John Newman
Thats all we want is the truth, are you the one to tell us the truth? Out of
the 200 hundred people there, less than 100 of them owned a Mini-500. Many
from that meeting have joined our association already. I wish you all the
luck with RHCI. You can do as you choose, it is a free country unless you
live near "Fetters town". I have never heard of you and if you are a real
person come forward and share you Mini-500 experiences with the group. Take
a stance, whatever it is. If RHCI has all the answers then let others know
unless you are like RHCI and don't care about others. I really wish you
would speak the trut, however I do not have any faith in someone that lurks
in the dark and then comes out with both barrels pointed at me. If your
convictions are as sincere with RHCI as you say they are then you are where I
was a couple of years ago. I understand completely. Dennis even talked me
into lying for him on the internet several years ago when he and BADRAD were
going at it. Here is my post if you care to read it. I did not purchase my
aircraft until April 1995 but Dennis begged me into putting this post on the
internet to shut Rad up. I have apologized to Radley already some time back.
I let Dennis use me too, so if you find your self doing his bidding you will
fall into the same trap and I feel sorry for you.
http://x12.dejanews.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=214771547&CONTEXT=922723093.1204
486172&hitnum=118
http://x12.dejanews.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=204936246&CONTEXT=922723093.1204
486172&hitnum=120
The above 2 posts are my very first posts on the newsgroups and I only posted
to help Dennis or so I thought. Do a power search on DEJANEWS and do a
search on author fste...@mini500.com and look at all my past posts. They
are very much like yours. John or whatever your name is, if you really own a
Mini-500 and are flying it, please reconsider flying for the meantime till
some more testing is done. You sound bitter at the rest of us, but when if
and when you come around and need help and when Dennis turns his back on you,
you will be welcome in our group. We have all been where you are at now.
In all honesty, I think I just wasted my time, I think the person is either
Michael Phillips at RHCI or Dennis himself using someone else to be his
mouthpiece since his lies are unbelievable anymore.
I am sorry to have rambled on so much but when Joan told me all this
yesterday all I could do was go outside and rake leaves till dark. It made
me want to vomit. I really wish I had never seen this aircraft. It has made
my life miserable. Now I have an obligation to all the people I stood in
front of for several years trying to sell this aircraft, and warn them of the
potential hazards of the aircraft. I only wished we could have gotten
through to all that have passed on. I just want to have a safe and reliable
aircraft. I have not posted in so long. I promised Gil that I would try to
only post positively and was not going to even respond to this, but maybe it
may save your life John.
In memory of Allen and Gil and the others who have gone west before him
Fred & Joan Stewart
http://www.mini500.com
jb_n...@yahoo.com
Mr. Pucillo,
Please forgive me if that is not your name, I just assumed it was
because I have read your posts. Look, I’m not prepared to take on
revolutions enemies all by myself. I have received so many emails now I
can never answer them all, but yours was a nicely put one unlike the
others. I’ll do my best.
--- Tony P <a...@flite.net> wrote:
> Hi John:
>
> I found your post interesting. It reflects a
> perspective of one who
> has read all of Dennis Fetters' stuff and given it
> credence, and given
> no credence to the information developed by the
> "other side"
Your wrong. I have read every post made by almost everyone. I see few
people with a legitimate bitch, the rest have something else to gain or
an ax to grind. I fly a kitbuilt helicopter, and I do all my homework,
both sides.
> (I'm a skeptic; I think
> businesspeople do
> that which is businesslike and generates profits. If
> it turns out to
> disadvantage others -- which can happen -- I STILL
> don't credit evil
> motives. Fetters hasn't been perfect (he's flown off
> the handle a few
> times and taken excessive positions too) but neither
> is he a demon.
I have never seen Dennis get mad or “Fly off the handle”. I have a
record of every post he ever made, and he has never said a single bad
word and has only wrote as a professional. Your wrong to say he has. I
went to him and asked him about all this junk. He keeps a very well
documented account of all letters and emails. He was kind enough to let
me read them all, and I even read the emails you and he exchanged. The
has always helped me and other Mini-500 owners as well as could ever be
expected.
> I read Fetters' stuff. I think there's some good
> information there,
> and it needs to be considered. And I take some of it
> with a grain of
> salt as I would any advocate's presentation.
Why, every word he has printed has the proof to back it up. All you
need
to do is the research. I never see proof given by their adversaries,
only hysteria and insults. Makes me sick sometimes. This is the guy
that
keeps my Mini in the air, and has done a good job at it.
> I particularly enjoyed Gil Armbruster's comments and
> corresponded with him
> at length.
Me too, and he always wrote good this about his Mini. Look, Gil was a
great guy and I met hi 2 time, but he killed himself. I read the emails
where Dennis told him not to use that jet combination, that they had
seized an engine in testing. He was totally at fault, and so was Allen.
> Here's where I get myself in trouble. I think one
> particular journalist
> has permitted his personal interest in posturing as a
> consumer advocate
> and being identified with "saving lives" to outweigh
> the interests of
> the kit owners.
Your right, and this is the same guy that Fred Stewart was badmouthing
at a flying in, and now that he has something to gain, their best of
friends. Did USAviator report that Fred worked on Allen’s engine last,
and the contamination came form him?. No.
> Those excesses polarized the
> builders and kit owners.
> Then Dennis Fetters reacted angrily. I suspect (and
> hope) he regrets
> some of his statements.
Again, where was he not professional? He defended himself and his
product against advisories telling mostly lies. The truth is always the
strongest defense. Revolution is in a situation where they can’t tell
anything but the facts, because to many people are looking to discover
a
lie.
> He has shown an
> unreasonable
> animosity toward ANY effort at independent
> organization or dissemination
> of information. I cannot take his statement that he
> refuses to deal
> with any "members" of a builders' organization as
> anything but
> retaliation.
Again, not correct. He offered all of us Mini-500 owners an oppertunity
to start an indepindent group, just not rad by Fred Stewart. We didn’t
feel the need to start it, we were getting good factory support after
Lee (Sarahoun?) was fired. We still are. I don’t blame him for not
dealing with Fred and Rinke’s group. You saw the crap they wrote and
Fred did advertice to start his own helicopter co, didn’t he? Lee did
work for Fred while working at Revolution, didn’t he?
> just as ALL
> need the improvements and fixes Fetters has generated
> as a manufacturer
> behaving responsibly toward kit owners. It is
> irresponsible for any
> manufacturer to either threaten or refuse to permit
> access to safety
> modifications to ANY kit owner, and it is
> irresponsible for any
> manufacturer to interfere with access by any kit
> owner to safety
> enhancements from outside sources.
I talked to Dennis about this, and he made since. It is difficult for
any helicopter to stay flying, let alone when people try and mod things
they know very little about. When the ship crashes, Revolution gets the
blunt end. They try and keep us safe from people like Rinke that sell
crap APU’s to people that believe what he says. Besides, what safety
improvements are you talking about. All I’ve seen was some attempts to
make a buck on something different, not any improvements. Know one
knows
as much as the factory, and they have always helped me and the other
owners I have talked to. Their not perfect, but good.
> I haven't heard Fetters' final word on this. I'm
> hoping he does the
> ethical thing and publicly states his intention to:
>
> 1. Make any factory enhancements available freely
> and without penalty
> to all owners;
How can he or anyone do that and still stay in business? If the parts
themselves only cost $800, then to give everyone one would cost
$416,800
for the 520+ Mini’s out there. What co. out there in the certified
business ever gave us something for free. Your being unreasonable.
Besides, I have gotten free fixes from Revolution, and all the others
didn’t even add up to $600! Cheep! I just spent $2200 on my R-22 fixing
the drive system. My R-22 frame cracked once. I had an engine failure
in
my R-22. It’s a helicopter, I expect expenses. The Mini-500 has been
the
most affordable helicopter I ever had, and I have 200+ hours on it,
with
the normal problems, and solved by the factory.
> 2. In no way interfere with the availability of
> independently-generated
> enhancements or the right of owners to purchase or
> develop them. I
> suspect any other position is not only legally
> untenable, but subjects
> the company to liabilities no rational businessman
> would undertake.
I would agree, but don’t forget the fact that the people who started
this group ad other motives. You have seen the proof. I would fight an
enemy too. I don’t want to be giving this group a bunch of money after
they put Dennis out of business just so I can get parts and support,
and
start their business for them! Read the proof, and see behind these
people! Rinke posted these facts some time ago!
> I do not speak for either side, though I have
> offered my assistance to
> the builders recently on some issues and indeed to
> Mr. Fetters himself,
> in the past, on other issues. I've done my best to
> open channels of
> communication on both sides. To date, I've had
> success with the
> "independent" builders' organization and little
> response from Mr.
> Fetters.
I have read the correspondence between you and Dennis, and your wrong.
He has dealed with you, and refused to get into the middle of you and
USAviator. As he said, his business is his business. These people have
blackmailed his and ran his name into the mud. Would you do business
with them?
> I would suggest that your best course is to hope you
> are able to
> benefit from the work and enhancements produced by
> both groups, and that
> they can work together for YOUR benefit.
Really? And just what has the other group come up with? Nothing last
year for sure, and only a bunch of people this year trying to sell
their
own products. On the other hand we that went to the factory meeting got
all our answers and the fixes! You all missed out. There is no need to
have other fixes now.
> Contributing to the
> polarization of the situation by making inflammatory
> and unjustifiable
> accusations does not good. It would be better for
> ALL builders -- those
> who still maintain good relations with Fetters
> especially -- to urge him
> to take the above steps AND to himself attempt to
> ameliorate the
> hostility.
Again, the man has done me no harm, and always helped. It’s his
business, and he had no help to get it where it is, despite the people
trying to knock him down. It’s no small thing to design and market a
helicopter. I respect the man, even more now that I’ve seen him bet all
the odds. I’ll urge him to keep up the good work and keep my mini
flying.
> There are cool heads and there is an ocean of talent
> out there. I
> watched a roomful of "independent" kit owners refuse
> to take a position
> hostile to RHCI, despite the rhetoric of an
> associated journalist. I
> watched them make decisions regarding the structure
> of an organization
> that were calculated to foster cooperation. I
> watched them consciously,
> and resoundingly, reject any "anti-RHCI" charter or
> purpose. And I have
> watched them act on those decisions.
Sure, they learned their lession from the Dallis meeting after they
handed out all that crap to people as they waled in. They now know they
need to look lagitament.
> I'd say the ball is in Mr. Fetters' court AND in the
> builders'
> organization's court. Both need to act on this, and
> now is the time.
> Stonewalling will only waste the first and perhaps
> last opportunity to
> salvage EVERYTHING for the builders.
Dennis has hit the home run with the Mini-500, and this mast support
made it better. A bunch of you guys are out in left field and missing
the boat!
Look, I’m not sucking up to Dennis Fetters, and I’m already being
called
Dennis Fetters. I’m just a guy that has did all the research, and tired
of this crap. I wanted to place an order for the Voyager, and now I’m
having trouble selling my Mini. I need to sell it first, owning two
helicopters at the same time is expensive enough, let alone three.
I read all the correspondence between Bill Phillips and Dennis, and
it’s
obvious Bill was bought. I urge Dennis to post these emails between
them, and he won’t. I think that is a mistake. Dennis has always been
open with me and the others I talked to, and I have never seen him get
out of hand. He’s been firm, but fair.
I’m not able to answer everyone’s questions, nor will I. I’ll just keep
enjoying my R-22 and Mini, and hope to get the Voyager later. Forgive
me
if I don’t answer all emails, I really don’t have the time or desire.
With friendship,
John
BADRADD
>In all honesty, I think I just wasted my time,<
Not so Fred. There's probably no one on the planet more intimately familar
with what a low life this guy is and people need to hear about it.
>I think the person is either Michael Phillips at RHCI or Dennis himself using
someone else to be his mouthpiece since his lies are unbelievable anymore.<
Personally, I think his holiness himself wrote that shit and I hope you realize
that's all it is. Pure Shit. Think about it. Who else would make such an
assinine accusation?
>I am sorry to have rambled<
Dont apologize. The more enlightenment on this subject, the better.
>It made me want to vomit.<
I'll second that.
>I really wish I had never seen this aircraft.<
I'll second that too.
>It has made my life miserable.<
I'll just bet. Hang in there dude. None of the shit involved in any of this
is of your doing.
BR
fste...@mini500.com
Richard posted this last night but it did not appear on the newsgroup, it is
from Richard Barklage.
Mr. Newman, My name is Rich Barklage, I'm Allens younger brother. What you
have said here is typical of what someone who has been lied to by RHCI.
I've
posted this before and I will again for your benefit. Allen had not
decarbonized his engine yet. We were going to in about three more hours.
NOTHING WAS FOUND LEFT IN ALLEN'S ENGINE THAT WOULD CAUSE HIS ENGINE TO
STOP. the only thing they found, and they don't expect to find anything
else, was metal build-up from the piston ring rubbing against the cyclinder
wall. It wasn't pilot error that caused Allen's engine to quit.Maybe you
should ask to see the report that says what RHCI said happen. I don't think
they have a offical report that says that. I've been in close contact with
the NTSB and the FAA on this, and I KNOW what they have said. Like you,
Allen loved his Mini and was a real advocate for the Mini, but its a real
dis-service to anyone who owns a Mini when they lie about what really
causes
a crash. RHCI also lied about frame cracking from the beginning. They said
they didn't have any when, NOW we know they did. So why should anyone
believe them now. I know Fred Stewart very well, and he's been nothing but
a
real help and although he's very upset with Dennis, Fred has been honest on
what he has said. All Fred ever wanted was a safe helicopter, and if it
wasn't safe, for Dennis to admit it and find a solution. This is where theyHi
butted heads. Dennis was never wrong and we were stupid. Just ask him. If
there wasn't a problem with the helicopter then why all the fixes all of a
sudden. Also the Mini you flew or saw at the factory was a set up to worked
with just that Mini, it may not work on the next one. Just ask.(not that
you might get a honest answer.) I also own a Mini. I havent flown it since
Allen's crash. I'm sure the engine will quit. I just don't know when. Allen
had 98 hours on his. I have 70 on mine. Doesn't sound like you'll stop
flying yours, so be careful. Hope I don't have to read about you too.
Rich Barklage
In article <7dlknj$72v$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
jb_n...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I have been watching this group ever since the discussions have started
> about the safety of the mini-500. I'm one of the many Mini-500 owners
> that prefer not to participate, just read, but I've seen all I can
> stand.
>
> I went to the latest meeting at Revolution, I've read the crap some
> people have wrote here, and I've read the reports posted by Revolution
> in answer to them and seen their proof. I honesty feel like Revolution
> has gotten the shaft buy some of you people, and in the meantime you
> drove down the value of my Mini-500. Now since I can't sell it, I can't
> buy the new Voyager-500 yet. But my guess is that's what some of you
> wanted, anything that would hurt Revolution.
>
> This whole thing was started by Fred Stewart. I saw his add in the
> Kitplanes magazine wanting to build his own design helicopter, and I
> talked to Lee many times. What Revolution said about them is true!
> Stewart and others called Dennis Fetters a killer, but I just learned
> that the cause of Mr. Allen Barklages untimely engine failure was due to
> some contamination left in his engine after decarbonizing it, and now I
> hear that Fred Stewart was the guy who last worked on Allen's engine!!!
> So, if he was, then he killed Allen if anyone did.
>
> Bill Phillips was on the side of Revolution all the way up to the point
> that Fred Stewart GAVE him a free Mini-500, then Bill's story changed. I
> asked Dennis Fetters about this, and he sent me all the emails he had
> from Bill, and it tells the story. You bet I won't be joining a group
> ran by these type of people.
>
> Some of you people say that Revolution has done nothing to help us
> customers, and that's BULL! They sent out AD's on every problem they had
> as soon as they had an answer for it. If you didn't follow them, or if
> your crying because you didn't get them for free then that's different,
> but they have always helped me. I did every AD that Revolution had, and
> it's less then my Robinson has had, and a whole lot cheaper. I have
> never flown a helicopter so affordably and worked on it so little as my
> Mini. I've seen many Mini500's, even that one that Fred gave to Bill,
> and it's no wonder some of you are having problems. I would never fly a
> helicopter put together or maintained like most Mini's I've seen! I love
> my Mini, and have only had the normal problems and used Revolutions
> fixes.
>
> I just came back from Revolution and flew the factory Mini with the Mast
> support and it was great! The cracking problem is salved, and cheep
> too! They even got the nose tuck out of it. It took a year to get it,
> but I believe that was because of the time they had to spend in
> defending themselves and the money they couldn't spend on it because of
> the damage they got from some of you people. Then, you cry that you want
> a fast solution, and then scream that you want 2000 hours of test time
> on it first and then do everyting to slow then down... Man, get real.
>
> The Mini-500 is a helicopter, and must be flown as one. Look at the NTSB
> reports. ALL of them are pilot error, none due to the design of the
> Mini. RHCI did an excellent accident report and all it got was reticule.
> Even if there was only 50 Mini500's flying, the causes of the accidents
> are the same, pilot error.
>
> I'll get the hell flamed out of me for this, but so what. It's time
> someone spoke out the truth. I will stick with Revolution, and so will
> almost all of the 200+ people that went to their meeting and many that
> couldn't. I know they got the guts to make it through this, I just wish
> some of you people posting against Revolution had the guts to face the
> truth.
>
> John Newman
>
Larry Smith
I guess they did, they changed
all the NTSB reports to read their own way. Why didn't they just print
the
NTSB reports themselves? Again what is reticule?
It's a word, just not the right one. It's an old-timey woman's
handbag made of net-like material.
Next time spell ridicule
this way and your posts wont be so obvious as to the author. Use a
spell
checker.
Looks like (s)he did. But it didn't help much, did it?
And, btw, wouldn't that R-22, as a certified ship, be in the FAA
registry under John Newman's name, unless registered under corporate
ownership?
Ken Leander
typing on two different Mac PPC's using two different Mozilla (Netscape)
news programs. The second post is an exact match in routing, Netscape
version, and Mac PPC that I have from personal posts received from Dennis
Fetters months ago. The posting host Unicom.net is Dennis Fetters ISP.
Furthermore, both messages from Newman contain the same grammatical
and spelling errors that I have seen from Dennis Fetters.
There is no doubt in my mind that John B Newman is Dennis Fetters.
Listen to me everyone. Dennis is exhibiting some kind of breakdown.
John B Newman, is like John be a new man. This is a cry for help.
I know some of you are angry, but this is the time to reach deep into
your guts and pull out a little compassion. Dennis is guilty of letting his
ambition take him past his abilities. Many of us have done that.
Anyone who knows how to properly deal with this situation, please advise.
Others just take a deep breath and be thankful it didn't happen to you.
Ken Leander
Austin, Texas
Richard Riley wrote in message <3700050e....@news.loop.com>...
>From: rhci...@my-dejanews.com
>Newsgroups: rec.aviation.homebuilt
>Subject: Complete Mini-500 Accident Analysis, By RHCI
>Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 18:37:42 GMT
>Message-ID: <7buh1l$ai2$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.113.109.131
>X-Article-Creation-Date: Sun Mar 07 18:37:42 1999 GMT
>X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
>X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x7.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client
206.113.109.131
>
> The posting host resolves to:
> uni-ip-206.113.109.131.access.unicom.net
>
>Second post headers:
>
>From: jb_n...@yahoo.com
>Subject: Did Fred Stewart kill Allen Barklage?
>Message-ID: <7dlknj$72v$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.113.121.48
>X-Article-Creation-Date: Sun Mar 28 16:18:00 1999 GMT
>X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.05 (Macintosh; U; PPC)
>X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x14.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client
206.113.121.48
>
> The posting host resolves to:
> dial-264.access.unicom.net
>
>The two posts are both from Macs, using Netscape's Mozilla, but the version
>isupdated in the second. (4.04 vrs 4.05). Both posts are from the same
ISP,
>and a trace rout from here shows identical routs until the final node - the
>Loop (mylocal ISP) to San Francisco, to Kansas City, MO, Savis Net, and
>finally to access.unicom.net. The two came from the same ISP in the same
>geographic area.
>
Kevin O'Brien
> Ken Leander wrote:
>
> > Some posts are trolls (deceptive, inciting, dishonest posts) deliberately
> > designed to inflame. Accusing someone of killing their best friend would
> > fit into that category. This post was from someone with no other recorded
> > postings under that name. It was posted via the relatively untraceable Deja
> > News using a Macintosh PPC, and Netscape 4.04.
>
> <snip>
> Ken, I share your suspicions.
> On 3/7/99 the article "Complete Mini-500 Accident Analysis, By RHCI" was
> posted thru DejaNews by someone from RHCI using a Mac PPC and Netscape.
> It also seems odd for "John Newman" to start right off with a focused attack
> against Fred Stewart. This sounds more like it comes from RHCI.
> And that word... RETICULE... again!
>
> woof!
Fi fi fo fum I smell the blood of a reticulated helikit selling python
again. 'Just wishing to distance the larger community of Macintosh users
from the more rarefied one of RHCI defenders' Macs are not slimy, merely
smooth and cool to the touch.
cheers
-=K=-
George Moore
George
George Moore
George
snowb...@my-dejanews.com
jb_n...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I have been watching this group ever since the discussions have started
> about the safety of the mini-500. I'm one of the many Mini-500 owners
> that prefer not to participate, just read, but I've seen all I can
> stand.
<....snip...>
Put on a troll suit, sit under a bridge, and it's amazing how much
change a guy can collect.
Can't evaluate the issues, but any post with a screamin' subject line
accusing one friend of murdering another is major trollville in my
dictionary.
Snowbird
Micbloo
>John B Newman, is like John be a new man. This is a cry for help.
Look, if Tony Sporano can be man enough to admit he needs to see a shrink, why
cant D. Fetters!! Huh?
Gerard
Micbloo
Ooops, thats Tony SOPRANO!!!
Those keyboard gremlins again!!
Gerard
BH206B
>Listen to me everyone. Dennis is exhibiting some kind of breakdown.
>John B Newman, is like John be a new man. This is a cry for help.
>your guts and pull out a little compassion. Dennis is guilty of letting his
>ambition take him past his abilities. Many of us have done that.
>
>Anyone who knows how to properly deal with this situation, please advise.
>Others just take a deep breath and be thankful it didn't happen to you.
>
Well Ken, I think I can refer him to a good doctor. ...Hmm, at least he SAYS
he was a doctor. Anyway, this guy I'm thinking of knows something about
personality disorders and multiple identities, inflated self-images, delusions
of grandeur and unrealized dreams. Methinks they would make a terrific pair.
Who knows, maybe they'd cure each other! Or cancel each other out. Or sue
each other to death.
This is all hilarious stuff. Too bad it will never make it into the mainstream
aviation media. God knows the industry could use a good laugh.
Bob "I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetic" B.
jb_n...@yahoo.com
> There is no doubt in my mind that John B Newman is Dennis Fetters.
>
> Listen to me everyone. Dennis is exhibiting some kind of breakdown.
> John B Newman, is like John be a new man. This is a cry for help.
> I know some of you are angry, but this is the time to reach deep into
> your guts and pull out a little compassion. Dennis is guilty of letting his
> ambition take him past his abilities. Many of us have done that.
>
> Anyone who knows how to properly deal with this situation, please advise.
> Others just take a deep breath and be thankful it didn't happen to you.
>
> Ken Leander
> Austin, Texas
You guys are really way out there! Anyone that says one word in their defense
is called Dennis Fetters, and why? Because they write in English!. You
thought that Flygyros was Dennis Fetters! Your paranoid!
Sorry for my English, I haven’t lived here as long as you have. Your so far
gone your credibility is lost. I made this email address so I could
participate on these news groups. My kids use my computer, and I didn't want
them to read the garbage some of you have already sent me. Good thing I did.
I know why people don't defend someone your kind picks to run down, they get
flamed with trash like your! Be ashamed!
John Newman
Doug Marker
Dennis Fetters & RHCI and the mini-500 - why?
1) because I don't own a mini-500 and based on the talk here in Australia as
to who designed it I never would own one
2) Because the flack has been flying so thickly over the record of
theMini-500 machine that it looked dangerous to get involved.
So what prompted this post - well it was the despicable nature and intent of
the poisonous post my one points to and also I decided I wanted to make a
comment that might add a wider dimension to what many of us International
lurkers might really think.
Here in Australia it is an accepted bit of history that the man who designed
the original Air Commad Gyro, (not the current models) was a widow maker.
The machine had such an appling record it was banned in the UK until its
design inadequacies were fixed and all sane Aussie Gyro builders flyers kept
right away from it - Guess who designed it - the same widow maker
involved with the Mini-500.
This man's reputation is well understood and know of here. He just doesn't
learn.
DSM
(really pissed off at this poisonous bit of written filth and innuendo)
jb_n...@my-dejanews.com
fste...@mini500.com wrote:
<BIG SNIP>
> Maybe if you had participated in the group and since you have such a pristine
> ship without any problems, Gil, Allen and several others may have been saved.
> Instead you lurk in the dark waiting to see what others will do for you.
> There was a lot more activity on the newsgroup awhile back then there is now,
> why did you choose to participate now that the activity has died down on the
> group?
And maybe if you hadn’t have attacked Revolution as you did, they could have
worked faster on improving the Mini-500. Say, if that was so then your partly
responsible for 8 deaths. Ever think of that? Sleep well! At least I didn’t do
anything to slow them down, you did, and your the cause of our Mini-500s being
almost worthless!
Well, putting all that aside, let’s just get down to it!
I bet you can’t answer these few questions factually:
1. Did you or did you not say Lee Sarouhan, and employee of Revolution, had
no involvement in your past plans to build your own 2-place helicopter?
Forget the excuses, just say yes or no?
2, Yes or no, did Lee Sarouhan, while still employed with Revolution, place
that ongoing ad for helicopter engineers to build a 2-place helicopter for
Mid- American helicopters in Kitpanes magazine, and Lee was listed as the
contact? Yes or no!
3. Did you work on Allen’s engine? did you? yes or no!
4. Did you write this?
> Dennis even talked me into lying for him on the
> internet several years ago when he and BADRAD were
> going at it. Here is my post if you care to read it.
Give us these answers, and then since your an admitted liar, for what ever
reason, please tell us when we should believe you or not, that is if your not
lying again.
John Newman
BADRADD
>There is no doubt in my mind that John B Newman is Dennis Fetters.<
You think so really?
>Listen to me everyone.<
Ok boss.
>Dennis is exhibiting some kind of breakdown.<
You don't suppose maybe he's being visited during his nite nite time?
>John B Newman, is like John be a new man. This is a cry for help.<
Well. I'm tongue tied. Really I am.
>I know some of you are angry, but this is the time to reach deep into your
guts and pull out a little compassion.<
You're absolutely right. Yeah. OK.
(Let's all pause for 2 seconds)
There. That's the limit of my compassion in this particular case. Except of
course for the families of the nine dead guys.
Still I'm glad there's folks like Mr Leander here to lead unenlightened guys
like myself out of the dreary darkness. So for you Sir, I give all appropriate
thanks. Really and truly.
BR
Bill Sykes
>> There is no doubt in my mind that John B Newman is Dennis Fetters.
>
>You guys are really way out there! Anyone that says one word in their defense
>is called Dennis Fetters, and why? Because they write in English!. You
>thought that Flygyros was Dennis Fetters! Your paranoid!
English!? Maybe, but not very proper English!
>
>Sorry for my English, I haven’t lived here as long as you have.
Oh, that explains it. Really, where are you from? How long have you
lived here?
>Your so far gone your credibility is lost.
Your credibility is in question, sir! Several members of this group
have asked you to post your kit number and registration number, and
you have not done so, yet. I too now ask you to post these
identifiers, so that your statements can be considered credible.
(BTW: I checked the U.S. Certificated Airman's database and found no
John B. Newman that had a helicopter rating. There were 2 John B.
Newmans; John Borella and John Benjamin, neither helicopter rated.)
>I made this email address so I could
>participate on these news groups. My kids use my computer, and I didn't want
>them to read the garbage some of you have already sent me.
Heard of profiles or permissions? You can set the computer up to where
the "kids" won't have access to your mail or this newsgroup. Then post
using your real email address.
>Good thing I did I know why people don't defend someone your kind picks to run down, they get
>flamed with trash like your!
There's that English thing again.
>Be ashamed!
Look in the mirror and say that.
>
>John Newman
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
You want to stop everyone in their tracks whose flaming you? Produce
your kit and registration numbers. Produce the registration number for
the R22 you say you own. Until such time as you can, or will, you
leave yourself wide open to to all the "reticule" this newsgroup can
muster!
Bill Sykes
"Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even
greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any
carelessness, incapacity, or neglect" Author unknown.
George Moore
George
Mark Mallory
: You guys are really way out there! Anyone that says one word in their defense
: is called Dennis Fetters, ^^^^^
THEIR defense? Yes, you *were* defending yourself: the posts were
defending FETTERS, not "JB Newman". Looks like you've just ADMITTED your
*true* identity, Dennis!
: and why? Because they write in English!.
Nope. It's because the number of Dejanews posters who used *both* the
misspelled words "RETICULE" and "SALVED" can be counted on one finger!
You gave yourself away then and there, just as if you'd signed your real
name.
Give it up, Fetters. You're just digging a deeper hole for yourself.
George Moore
George
John Ousterhout
There is considerable doubt among many of the participants of the
newsgroups as to whether you are a real person or an imposter. If you
are indeed a real person, you are going to have to prove it to this
group.
I propose that you e-mail details about yourself, i.e., your real
name, address, telephone number, e-mail address, your Mini-500's
registration number, etc., to a neutral party who can communicate with
you, verify that you are what you claim, and then post the answer here
(on rah and rar).
I suggest Tony Pucillo (a...@flite.net) as a neutral party, but feel
free to choose anyone that has been posting here for some time and has
some credibility with the other members of the group.
until then: If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck . . .
- John Ousterhout -
duck...@hotmail.com
ronpi...@aol.com (RonPilotPI) wrote:
>ronpilotpi (if your are as you say- a mini50(?) prospect, please heed the words of those whom have travelled the skies ahead of you.
ron, ron, ron,how sad it is that you believe the b---s----, that ol' df has
cast upon your craving ears. you are and will continue to be no more than
another dollar sign in df's blood stained wallet. until you and others of
your ilk wise up, grow up, and stop following df like a bunch of bedazzled
LEMMINGS--- the carnage will continue and unfortunately it won't be you that
suffers, but the loved ones that you will have left behind. PLEASE WAKE
UP!!!!! miniman from helohell
>
> Ron (kit helicopter sales prospect)
Ron Natalie
> don't think I would want to fly anything that had its problems
> "salved".
Yeah, and aircraft spruce doesn't have any mast salve in stock.
fste...@mini500.com
jb_n...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> I bet you can’t answer these few questions factually:
>
> 1. Did you or did you not say Lee Sarouhan, and employee of Revolution, had
> no involvement in your past plans to build your own 2-place helicopter?
> Forget the excuses, just say yes or no?
Yes.
>
> 2, Yes or no, did Lee Sarouhan, while still employed with Revolution, place
> that ongoing ad for helicopter engineers to build a 2-place helicopter for
> Mid- American helicopters in Kitpanes magazine, and Lee was listed as the
> contact? Yes or no!
Yes
> 3. Did you work on Allen’s engine? did you? yes or no!
No, and I would appreciate it if you would stop telling that vicious lie.
Richard Barklage posted and told you where that crap came from, RHCI.
>
> 4. Did you write this?
> > Dennis even talked me into lying for him on the
> > internet several years ago when he and BADRAD were
> > going at it. Here is my post if you care to read it.
Yes.
>
> Give us these answers, and then since your an admitted liar, for what ever
> reason, please tell us when we should believe you or not, that is if your not
> lying again.
>
> John Newman
Now there is a lot of backround about the questions above but I will not
discuss them here. I have had enough hate mail to answer and I'm tired of
explaining myself time and time again. If Dennis wants to know the details
about all the above he knows how to get it. I participate in this group for
one reason, I love helicopters. I am not going to spend what little free time
I have defending my position here. I put out information. You don't have to
go to my website or read my posts. I post very infrequently except when
necessary or I have something important to say. Wasting my time answering
this type of crap is non productive and if you spent more time working on the
Mini-500's problems and less time making yourself look like a fool on the
internet then we would not even be having this conversation.
I hope these I have answered all your questions to your satisfaction Dennis.
If you really want to know anything else call me, you have my number.
Now that I have answered all your questions I have many of my own but really
don't care enough to even type anymore to ask you to answer them. Several
people have asked you to answer theirs, why don't you?
If Dennis really has fixes then I am glad for you all. I myself will wait
and let you be the test pilot for awhile. Non of the input of the last
generation of test pilots seemed to matter to RHCI. The last 2 good test
pilots are both dead and I don't consider myself near as good as they were.
Keep us abreast on the developments of your aircraft and please share all
your knowledge of the Mini-500, not for me but, I am not interested in your
propaganda, but for all the others.
Beavis
>I have been watching this group ever since the discussions have started
>about the safety of the mini-500. I'm one of the many Mini-500 owners
>that prefer not to participate, just read, but I've seen all I can
>stand.
Oh oh guys.
>
>I went to the latest meeting at Revolution, I've read the crap some
>people have wrote here, and I've read the reports posted by Revolution
>in answer to them and seen their proof. I honesty feel like Revolution
>has gotten the shaft buy some of you people, and in the meantime you
>drove down the value of my Mini-500. Now since I can't sell it, I can't
>buy the new Voyager-500 yet. But my guess is that's what some of you
>wanted, anything that would hurt Revolution.
No my cynical take on this so far is that our erstwhile poster is either
employed by Rev, or has a stake in the company. What say you guys?
>
>This whole thing was started by Fred Stewart.
Who presumably went all over the States sabotaging Mini-500's so that
he'd have a market for HIS machine. Shame on you Fred.
> I saw his add in the
>Kitplanes magazine wanting to build his own design helicopter, and I
>talked to Lee many times. What Revolution said about them is true!
>Stewart and others called Dennis Fetters a killer, but I just learned
>that the cause of Mr. Allen Barklages untimely engine failure was due to
>some contamination left in his engine after decarbonizing it, and now I
>hear that Fred Stewart was the guy who last worked on Allen's engine!!!
>So, if he was, then he killed Allen if anyone did.
I'd be VERY careful about talking like that if I were you pal. That
could well be in the region of libel.
>
>Bill Phillips was on the side of Revolution all the way up to the point
>that Fred Stewart GAVE him a free Mini-500, then Bill's story changed. I
>asked Dennis Fetters about this, and he sent me all the emails he had
>from Bill, and it tells the story. You bet I won't be joining a group
>ran by these type of people.
Well there IS a God in Heaven after all!
>
>Some of you people say that Revolution has done nothing to help us
>customers, and that's BULL! They sent out AD's on every problem they had
>as soon as they had an answer for it. If you didn't follow them, or if
>your crying because you didn't get them for free then that's different,
>but they have always helped me.
And not because you're so far up the Fetter-dude's arse that your
skivvies have HIS skid marks on 'em?
> I did every AD that Revolution had, and
>it's less then my Robinson has had, and a whole lot cheaper.
What a joker you are. D'you do stand up too? Can I book you for a gig?
> I have
>never flown a helicopter so affordably and worked on it so little as my
>Mini.
Now I KNOW you work for Rev.
> I've seen many Mini500's, even that one that Fred gave to Bill,
>and it's no wonder some of you are having problems. I would never fly a
>helicopter put together or maintained like most Mini's I've seen! I love
>my Mini, and have only had the normal problems and used Revolutions
>fixes.
The main one being to fix it solidly to a large chunk of concrete?
>
>I just came back from Revolution and flew the factory Mini with the Mast
>support and it was great! The cracking problem is salved, and cheep
>too!
Salved and cheep?? And you built a helicopter?? You couldn't even read
the fucking instruction booklet.
>They even got the nose tuck out of it. It took a year to get it,
>but I believe that was because of the time they had to spend in
>defending themselves and the money they couldn't spend on it because of
>the damage they got from some of you people.
Oh right! It took a whole year to write a few postings for this NG which
took away valuable time form fixing the pile of shite.
> Then, you cry that you want
>a fast solution, and then scream that you want 2000 hours of test time
>on it first and then do everyting to slow then down... Man, get real.
Yeah, what we want to see is a fast fix. A chainsaw springs to mind.
>
>The Mini-500 is a helicopter, and must be flown as one. Look at the NTSB
>reports. ALL of them are pilot error, none due to the design of the
>Mini.
I'm just about getting pissed off with this crap. The "NTSB report" was
a Revolutoon snow-job. Talking of which reminds me. With all the smoke
you've blown, how about a REAL blow-job?
> RHCI did an excellent accident report and all it got was reticule.
You mean RIDICULE I suppose. Get back to the books or back to your desk
at Rev.
>Even if there was only 50 Mini500's flying, the causes of the accidents
>are the same, pilot error.
The error was buying one in the first place.
>
>I'll get the hell flamed out of me for this, but so what. It's time
>someone spoke out the truth. I will stick with Revolution, and so will
>almost all of the 200+ people that went to their meeting and many that
>couldn't.
Are we invited to your funeral?
> I know they got the guts to make it through this, I just wish
>some of you people posting against Revolution had the guts to face the
>truth.
The truth is plain. The Mini stinks and you're either stupid or a Rev
employee.
Beav
fste...@mini500.com
find anyone by that name that is a helicopter pilot. I thought if he owned a
Robinson and a Mini-500 with 200 hours he would be listed in the FAA database.
Below is the result of the search.
Pilots Database Search Result
Name : NEWMAN, GEORGE JOHN
Pilot's Address : 2931 NE 45TH ST
LIGHTHOUSE POINT, FL, 33064-7248
Date of Medical : Jan, 1997
Class of Medical : 3
Pilot Certificates : Private Pilot
Ratings : Single Engine Land/Multi-Engine Land
FAA Region : Southern
Name : NEWMAN, GRAHAM JOHN
Pilot's Address : 376 S OVERLOOK DR
SAN RAMON, CA, 94583-4547
Date of Medical : Feb, 1998
Class of Medical : 1
Pilot Certificates : Airline Transport Pilot
Flight Engineer
Ratings : Single Engine Land/Multi-Engine Land
FAA Region : Western/Pacific
Name : NEWMAN, HARVEY JOHN
Pilot's Address : 151 KING ST
REDWOOD CITY, CA, 94062-1939
Pilot Certificates : Glider Rating Only
Ratings :
FAA Region : Western/Pacific
Name : NEWMAN, JOHN ALBERT
Pilot's Address : 260 HERON DR
PITTSBURG, CA, 94565-1907
Date of Medical : Sep, 1996
Class of Medical : 1
Pilot Certificates : Commercial Pilot
Ratings : Single Engine Land/Multi-Engine Land
FAA Region : Western/Pacific
Name : NEWMAN, JOHN ALLEN
Pilot's Address : PO BOX 1943
VICTORIA, TX, 77902-1943
Date of Medical : May, 1996
Class of Medical : 3
Pilot Certificates : Private Pilot
Instrument
Ratings : Single Engine Land/Instrument
FAA Region : Southwest
Name : NEWMAN, JOHN BENJAMIN
Pilot's Address : 4125 BISHOPS PL
PORTSMOUTH, VA, 23703-5503
Date of Medical : Jun, 1996
Class of Medical : 2
Pilot Certificates : Private Pilot
Ratings : Single Engine Land
FAA Region : Eastern
Name : NEWMAN, JOHN BORELLA
Pilot's Address : 1916 COTTAGE LN
WAYZATA, MN, 55391-9789
Date of Medical : Oct, 1997
Class of Medical : 1
Pilot Certificates : Airline Transport Pilot
Flight Engineer
Ratings : Single Engine Land/Multi-Engine Land
FAA Region : Great Lakes
Name : NEWMAN, JOHN CHARLES
Pilot's Address : 1315 ELSINORE AVE
MC LEAN, VA, 22102-2702
Date of Medical : Jan, 1997
Class of Medical : 2
Pilot Certificates : Commercial Pilot
Instrument
Ratings : Single Engine Land/Multi-Engine Land/Instrument
FAA Region : Eastern
Name : NEWMAN, JOHN CLAYTON
Pilot's Address : 4799 WAYCROSS AVE
MILLINGTON, TN, 38053-3735
Date of Medical : Dec, 1997
Class of Medical : 2
Pilot Certificates : Control Tower Operator
Ratings : Control Tower Operator Facility Rating
FAA Region : Southern
Name : NEWMAN, JOHN EDWARD
Pilot's Address : 5740 FRENCH CAMP RD
MARIPOSA, CA, 95338-9596
Date of Medical : Mar, 1997
Class of Medical : 3
Pilot Certificates : Private Pilot
Ratings : Single Engine Land
FAA Region : Western/Pacific
Name : NEWMAN, JOHN FRANKLIN
Pilot's Address : 3099 WILLOWSTONE DR
LIZELLA, GA, 31052-1745
Date of Medical : Nov, 1997
Class of Medical : 1
Pilot Certificates : Airline Transport Pilot
CFI/Airplane/Instrument
Flight Engineer
Ratings : Single Engine Land/Multi-Engine Land
FAA Region : Southern
Name : NEWMAN, JOHN JOSEPH
Pilot's Address : 45 ISLAND TRL
SPARTA, NJ, 07871-1603
Date of Medical : Mar, 1998
Class of Medical : 1
Pilot Certificates : Airline Transport Pilot
Ratings : Single Engine Land and Sea/Multi-Engine Land
FAA Region : Eastern
Name : NEWMAN, JOHN MCCLELLAN
Pilot's Address : 1426 COLOMA WAY
WOODLAND, CA, 95695-5522
Date of Medical : Jul, 1990
Class of Medical : 2
Pilot Certificates : Certfied Flight Instructor
CFI/Airplane
Ratings :
FAA Region : Western/Pacific
Name : NEWMAN, JOHN RONALD
Pilot's Address : RR 1
WILLIAMSTOWN, WV, 26187-9801
Pilot Certificates : Control Tower Operator
Ratings : Control Tower Operator Facility Rating
FAA Region : Eastern
Name : NEWMAN, JOHN THOMAS
Pilot's Address : 2308 LAKE AVE
CHEVERLY, MD, 20785-2948
Date of Medical : Oct, 1997
Class of Medical : 1
Pilot Certificates : Airline Transport Pilot
Ratings : Single Engine Land/Multi-Engine Land
FAA Region : Eastern
Name : NEWMAN, JOHN THOMAS
Pilot's Address : 3733 LEMON DR
GRAND PRAIRIE, TX, 75052-6614
Date of Medical : Jan, 1997
Class of Medical : 2
Pilot Certificates : Commercial Pilot
Ratings : Single Engine Land/Multi-Engine Land
FAA Region : Southwest
Name : NEWMAN, JOHN WILLIAM
Pilot's Address : 311 DAKOTA AVE
HOLTON, KS, 66436-1251
Date of Medical : Jul, 1997
Class of Medical : 3
Pilot Certificates : Student Pilot
Ratings :
FAA Region : Central
Name : NEWMAN, TIMOTHY JOHN
Pilot's Address : 8224 RUSSET LN APT C
MAINEVILLE, OH, 45039-9068
Date of Medical : Feb, 1996
Class of Medical : 3
Pilot Certificates : Private Pilot
Ratings : Single Engine Land
FAA Region : Great Lakes
Name : NEWMAN, WAYNE JOHN
Pilot's Address : 7 MAID MARION LN
BREWER, ME, 04412-1709
Date of Medical : Aug, 1997
Class of Medical : 3
Pilot Certificates : Private Pilot
Ratings : Single Engine Land
FAA Region : New England
Name : NEWMAN JR, JOHN D
Pilot's Address : 3757 S 5600 W
WEST VALLEY, UT, 84120-2737
Date of Medical : Mar, 1997
Class of Medical : 2
Pilot Certificates : Commercial Pilot
Instrument
CFI/Airplane/Instrument
Ratings : Single Engine Land/Multi-Engine Land/Instrument
FAA Region : Northwest/Mountain
Name : NEWMAN JR, JOHN WALTER
Pilot's Address : 7345 CHANNEL VIEW DR
FORT WORTH, TX, 76133-6858
Date of Medical : May, 1996
Class of Medical : 3
Pilot Certificates : Private Pilot
Ratings : Single Engine Land
FAA Region : Southwest
Returned 21 entries
Ken Leander
like this!
Ken Leander
jb_n...@yahoo.com wrote in message <7dpk7d$jso$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
>You guys are really way out there! Anyone that says one word in their
defense
>is called Dennis Fetters, and why? Because they write in English!. You
>thought that Flygyros was Dennis Fetters! Your paranoid!
>
>Sorry for my English, I haven’t lived here as long as you have. Your so far
>gone your credibility is lost. I made this email address so I could
>participate on these news groups. My kids use my computer, and I didn't
want
>them to read the garbage some of you have already sent me. Good thing I
did.
>I know why people don't defend someone your kind picks to run down, they
get
>flamed with trash like your! Be ashamed!
>
>John Newman
Ken Leander
Is this your Flygyros impression?
Ken Leander
BADRADD wrote in message <19990330003818...@ng-fz1.aol.com>...
>Ken the Leander man writes:>
>
>>There is no doubt in my mind that John B Newman is Dennis Fetters.<
>
>You think so really?
>
<snipped>
Ken Leander
Nobody could illuminate how irrational Dennis Fetters is than he. Maybe now
others will understand why it was so difficult to reason or compromise with
him. Maybe they will understand the troubles you have had, and not
criticize your need to form an independent group to work on the design of
your ships.
Best wishes, and best of luck.
Ken Leander
PS. That little ship still needs a bigger engine:) I noticed the Belgian
M80 is now being designed for the 4 cycle Jubaru.
Ken Leander
fste...@mini500.com wrote in message <7dob2f$enm$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>In article <7dlknj$72v$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> jb_n...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> I have been watching this group ever since the discussions have started
>> about the safety of the mini-500. I'm one of the many Mini-500 owners
>> that prefer not to participate, just read, but I've seen all I can
>> stand.
>
>Maybe if you had participated in the group and since you have such a
pristine
>ship without any problems, Gil, Allen and several others may have been
saved.
>Instead you lurk in the dark waiting to see what others will do for you.
>There was a lot more activity on the newsgroup awhile back then there is
now,
>why did you choose to participate now that the activity has died down on
the
>group?
>
<snipped>
RotorDyne
RotorDyne
BADRADD
>Is this your Flygyros impression?<
Huh? Damn, I'm tongue tied again. F*ck, Sh*t, P*ss. There. That's my best
Flygyros impression. You happy now?
It just seems a little odd to me that you would be calling for compassion for a
guy who operates in the manner that he does. I say screw him, the sooner he
goes down the better. If it takes him turning into a slobbering pile of goo,
so be it.
Still, I'm glad there's folks like you Ken.
Seriously, you make the world a better place.
BR
Micbloo
Brother of Alfred E. Newman
"What Me Worry"
Gerard
George Moore
George
Badwater Bill
think it's his wife. She makes different mistakes. Notice the poor
usage of the verb tenses in the writing. I've edited some of
Dennis's work for him in the past. I helped him with his three part
post. The same mistakes were included. I wasn't going to blow the
whistle on him yet but it's just so obvious to me and many of you that
he needs to be exposed for this kind of crap.
Stop playing games Dennis. Fred can sue you for this kind of public
slander. We are all trying to work with you, not against you. Stop
being so paraniod. You look stupid when you pull this bull shit.
I'd like to say one more thing too about freedom and free enterprise
in this country. Fred Stewart has the right to compete with you on
any level he so desires. If Fred wants to build a better mouse trap
why do you percieve him as a traitor. Jesus man, I may go out and
build and market a helicopter just to show you that I'm free to do it.
This technology is no big secret. You'll notice Schramm doesn't have
a patent on his helicycle. Anyone can build and market anything they
want. A good attorney could shoot holes all through your contract
with the buyers too. Your contract restricts trade. My best guess is
that there are MANY things wrong with it that a good lawyer could nail
you on.
Now, stop the bull shit and let's get to work before that machine
kills someone else.
Bill Phillips
>Anybody but me see an awesome correlation between the writing
>style of the new, first time, one time poster, J. Newman and
>Mrs Fetters ? The reticules on you honey.
>
>Ray
Badwater Bill
AMEN!
BWB
> I did not and will not sign
>any contract with Revolution that prevents me from doing so. The thing that
>makes the American people great is we allow competition and that's the only way
>things get improved! I don't meann to pick on you but I really think you
>shouldn't pick on Fred. JDA...@aol.com
Badwater Bill
Oh come on Dennis. Whom do you think you are fooling?
Badwater Bill
>
>
>You guys are really way out there! Anyone that says one word in their defense
>is called Dennis Fetters, and why? Because they write in English!. You
>thought that Flygyros was Dennis Fetters! Your paranoid!
>
>Sorry for my English, I haven’t lived here as long as you have. Your so far
>gone your credibility is lost. I made this email address so I could
>participate on these news groups. My kids use my computer, and I didn't want
>them to read the garbage some of you have already sent me. Good thing I did.
>I know why people don't defend someone your kind picks to run down, they get
>flamed with trash like your! Be ashamed!
>
>John Newman
>
Badwater Bill
Hey Jack off. Give us your N number and your kit number you phony
bastard. You're as phony as a 3 dollar bill and you ask Fred to
consider you for real. Kiss my entire ass John Newman!
Yeah right, and I'm Alamosa Bill, Wild Bill's father and Badwater's
brother.
Badwater Bill
>
>
>Give us these answers, and then since your an admitted liar, for what ever
>reason, please tell us when we should believe you or not, that is if your not
>lying again.
>
mikepatt...@spammindspring.com
bill...@earthlink.net (Badwater Bill) wrote:
<<SNIP>>
>
>Yeah right, and I'm Alamosa Bill, Wild Bill's father and Badwater's
>brother.
>
>
>Badwater Bill
>>
Mike Patterson - Deacon Blues
EAA #523920 NRA #920202222 ICQ #7161589
"Sharing the things I know and love with those of my kind..."
*
In memory of Gunnery Sgt.Carlos N.Hathcock II
"Long Tra'ng" - Semper Fidelis - Feb.23rd,1999
I never knew him, but I consider him an American hero.
*
con?sult'ant n. 1. one who gives professional or technical advice 2.
mental prostitute
*
Humans please ignore the following-
Eat this (anagram) and die, SPAMbots: u...@ftc.gov
More SPAM bait: http://barnstormers.dyn.ml.org/email.html
postmaster@localhost, abuse@localhost, support@localhost,
service@localhost, ab...@aol.com, ab...@webtv.net, ab...@idt.net,
ab...@earthlink.net,ab...@hotmail.com,TOS...@aol.com,
Stev...@aol.com, TOSGe...@aol.com, SONS-OF...@webtv.net,
nf...@internetMCI.com, afr...@nocs.insp.irs.gov, enfor...@sec.gov,
aaspa...@primenet.com
LANCE & MARY ANN
BUILD AIRCRAFT, THEY TELL THE MANUFACTURER WHAT THE REAL WORLD IS ABOUT.
THE PERSON WHO POSTED THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE IS NO DOUBT A PIECE OF SH T, TO
START SUCH A RUMOR.
KEEP AT IT FRED.
JDana2 wrote in message <19990328152142...@ng-fa1.aol.com>...
>It is amazing that to date very few people are trying to make the mini 500
>better. The ones that are are being castigated! Fred Stewart offers a view
>outside of Revolutions' . I wish more people had the guts to do so. The
>business of the experimental aircraft assoc. is to experiment. If you read
your
>contract that revolution made you sign , you can't do that! Why is that? It
is
>self obvious that Mr. Fetters doesn't want competition ! You should see
what he
>attempted to do to Mr Reinke in a law suit. The trouble with Revolution is
that
>I am never sure that I am hearing the truth about anything.Why did it take
a
>man from texas to come up with a wonderful fix for the airframe problem
when
>Revolution knew about it and did nothing? I recently purchased a mini 500
and
>will only fly it after I put in a different engine. I did not and will not
RotorDyne
Hehe... now this adds an interesting level of dignity to an otherwise ordinary
insult. My accolades to the author and my regrets to the recipient, as this
demand would undoubtedly include the knooks and crannys, the details of which I
do not care to consider.
Ric Lee
Forgive Badwater Bill for his use of "harsh" language. Will you
kindly post your kit number and N number so we may verify that
you are indeed a Mini-500 owner?
Ric Lee
"You can get more with a kind word and a gun than just a kind
word alone." AL Capone
P.S. Trolling our group must not be much fun. These guys actually
want facts not bluster!!!!
Badwater Bill wrote:
>
> Hey Jack off. Give us your N number and your kit number you phony
> bastard. You're as phony as a 3 dollar bill and you ask Fred to
> consider you for real. Kiss my entire ass John Newman!
>
> Yeah right, and I'm Alamosa Bill, Wild Bill's father and Badwater's
> brother.
>
> Badwater Bill
> >
> >
George Moore
George
Joel La Roche
>
> I suppose someone could stretch a point and say that their deaths were
> due to pilot error in that they were too low to safely auto-rotate
> when the engine quit. However, if the engine chosen for the M-500 had
> not failed they would still be alive.
>
> This engine has to run at 100% power output to hover. It was not made
> to run at this setting for more than a very short time.
>
> John Ammeter
> Seattle WA
> USA
> 1975 Jensen Healey
> RV-6 (sold 4/98)
> EAA Technical Counselor
> NRA Life Member
Too many people are ignoring this extremely important fact that John
mentioned: Any engine will not run reliably for an extended period of
time at or near maximum output/rpm. The majority of commercial helos
have powerplants derated anywhere from 20 to 30% and there is a very
good reason for this... RELIABILITY!
We hear alot of talk about horsepower/weight ratio which is important in
all aircraft, but not at the expense of reliability and longevity of the
engine.
People: PLEASE! less time spent on bickering and more efforts
concentrated on solutions for the Mini.
Joel LaRoche
terra
> Cy...
> Fetters or Fetter seems to be a very, very uncommon name.
<snip>
Yes. I think that Fetters means "to spoil, or meddle with" and is the source of
the term "unfettered".
Cicare's CH-6 was a clean unfettered design, then Dennis fettered it.
That was fun, but I just checked a dictionary and found the definition of fetters
- Anything that serves to restrict or confine.
Seems to fit the man.
highflyer
> I'll get the hell flamed out of me for this, but so what. It's time
> someone spoke out the truth. I will stick with Revolution, and so will
> almost all of the 200+ people that went to their meeting and many that
> some of you people posting against Revolution had the guts to face the
> truth.
>
>
Wouldn't it be nice if we were so sure what was truth. Unfortunately,
I am absolutely sure that you have NO IDEA where the TRUTH lies.
HF
highflyer
>
>
> I’m not able to answer everyone’s questions, nor will I. I’ll just keep
> enjoying my R-22 and Mini, and hope to get the Voyager later. Forgive
> me
> if I don’t answer all emails, I really don’t have the time or desire.
>
> With friendship,
>
> John
Based on your "friendly" little response, John, you have to be
the world's most imcompetent researcher. I would certainly hope
that no one is foolish enough to take you seriously and purchase
a Mini or, lord help us, a Voyager.
HF
highflyer
>
> I know why people don't defend someone your kind picks to run down, they get
> flamed with trash like your! Be ashamed!
>
> John Newman
You are one truly obnoxious prick. You come on here out of nowhere
with a CRIMINAL ACCUSATION in your SUBJECT HEADER.
Then you proceed to tear into some well respected people and accuse
them of all sorts of crimes.
Then you have the chutzpah to accuse ANYONE who disagrees with your
absolutely untenable position.
You who are without shame, crawl back into your hole and DIE.
You are not fit to associate with true human beings.
HF
highflyer
>
> fste...@mini500.com wrote:
>
> <BIG SNIP>
>
> > Maybe if you had participated in the group and since you have such a pristine
> > ship without any problems, Gil, Allen and several others may have been saved.
> > Instead you lurk in the dark waiting to see what others will do for you.
> > There was a lot more activity on the newsgroup awhile back then there is now,
> > why did you choose to participate now that the activity has died down on the
> > group?
>
> worked faster on improving the Mini-500. Say, if that was so then your partly
> responsible for 8 deaths. Ever think of that? Sleep well! At least I didn’t do
> anything to slow them down, you did, and your the cause of our Mini-500s being
> almost worthless!
>
> Well, putting all that aside, let’s just get down to it!
>
> I bet you can’t answer these few questions factually:
>
> 1. Did you or did you not say Lee Sarouhan, and employee of Revolution, had
> no involvement in your past plans to build your own 2-place helicopter?
> Forget the excuses, just say yes or no?
>
> that ongoing ad for helicopter engineers to build a 2-place helicopter for
> Mid- American helicopters in Kitpanes magazine, and Lee was listed as the
> contact? Yes or no!
>
>
> > Dennis even talked me into lying for him on the
> > internet several years ago when he and BADRAD were
> > going at it. Here is my post if you care to read it.
>
> reason, please tell us when we should believe you or not, that is if your not
> lying again.
>
> John Newman
>
Sure sounds like Dennis Fetters. You have now totally destroyed
any credibility Dennis might once have had, here and elsewhere.
Too bad.
HF
George Moore
George
duck...@hotmail.com
I have been watching this group ever since the discussions have started >
about the safety of the mini-500. I'm one of the many Mini-500 owners > that
went to the latest meeting at Revolution, I've read the crap some > people
have wrote here, and I've read the reports posted by Revolution > in answer
to them and seen their proof. I honesty feel like Revolution > has gotten the
shaft buy some of you people, and in the meantime you > drove down the value
of my Mini-500. Now since I can't sell it, I can't > buy the new Voyager-500
yet. But my guess is that's what some of you > wanted, anything that would
hurt Revolution. > > This whole thing was started by Fred Stewart. I saw his
add in the > Kitplanes magazine wanting to build his own design helicopter,
and I > talked to Lee many times. What Revolution said about them is true! >
Stewart and others called Dennis Fetters a killer, but I just learned > that
the cause of Mr. Allen Barklages untimely engine failure was due to > some
contamination left in his engine after decarbonizing it, and now I > hear
that Fred Stewart was the guy who last worked on Allen's engine!!! > So, if
he was, then he killed Allen if anyone did. > > Bill Phillips was on the
side of Revolution all the way up to the point > that Fred Stewart GAVE him a
free Mini-500, then Bill's story changed. I > asked Dennis Fetters about
this, and he sent me all the emails he had > from Bill, and it tells the
story. You bet I won't be joining a group > ran by these type of people. > >
Some of you people say that Revolution has done nothing to help us >
customers, and that's BULL! They sent out AD's on every problem they had > as
soon as they had an answer for it. If you didn't follow them, or if > your
crying because you didn't get them for free then that's different, > but they
have always helped me. I did every AD that Revolution had, and > it's less
then my Robinson has had, and a whole lot cheaper. I have > never flown a
helicopter so affordably and worked on it so little as my > Mini. I've seen
many Mini500's, even that one that Fred gave to Bill, > and it's no wonder
some of you are having problems. I would never fly a > helicopter put
together or maintained like most Mini's I've seen! I love > my Mini, and have
only had the normal problems and used Revolutions > fixes
*****************************************************************************
**************** NOT ONE TO NIT- PICK-- DENNIS-BUT , IT DID TAKE YOU TWO
YEARS TO "ENGINEER" AND 15MINS TO BUILD, WHAT YOU THEN CALLED THE ULTIMATE
MAST SUPPORT. DENNIS, IN THE FUTURE, MAKE YOUR STATMENTS CORRECT OR I WILL
CALL YOU ON THEM. BEEN TO THE U.A.R. LATELY??? HOW'S MUNA? your old friend,
miniman from helohell
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > I just
came back from Revolution and flew the factory Mini with the Mast > support
and it was great! The cracking problem is salved, and cheep > too! They even
got the nose tuck out of it. It took a year to get it, > but I believe that
was because of the time they had to spend in > defending themselves and the
money they couldn't spend on it because of > the damage they got from some of
you people. Then, you cry that you want > a fast solution, and then scream
that you want 2000 hours of test time > on it first and then do everyting to
slow then down... Man, get real. > > The Mini-500 is a helicopter, and must
be flown as one. Look at the NTSB > reports. ALL of them are pilot error,
none due to the design of the > Mini. RHCI did an excellent accident report
and all it got was reticule. > Even if there was only 50 Mini500's flying,
the causes of the accidents > are the same, pilot error. > > I'll get the
hell flamed out of me for this, but so what. It's time > someone spoke out
the truth. I will stick with Revolution, and so will > almost all of the 200+
people that went to their meeting and many that > couldn't. I know they got
the guts to make it through this, I just wish > some of you people posting
against Revolution had the guts to face the > truth. > > John Newman > >
Tony P
With all due respect, you have given up the guise of an individual who
has all the facts and has objectively concluded Dennist Fetters is
completely correct, and begun behaving as if you were simply his ally
and advocate in attacking what you see as his enemies.
I wouldn't suggest you ARE Dennis without some evidence of that, but I
certainly WILL suggest that you've lost all objectivity and are rapidly
losing credibility as well. If you're so credulous that you accept a
company's own advocacy wholesale, and so willing to condemn and attack
those they see as enemies on a personal level, what do you add to the
dialogue except a rubber-stamp?
I'm frankly disappointed -- I started out thinking there was more
common ground for discussion than schoolyard taunting. Let Dennis fight
his own battles. Better yet, do yourself and all of us a favor by
trying to DE-polarize this thing instead of fanning the flames.
Tony Pucillo
> John Newman
>
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--
Castigat ridendo mores. <Laughter succeeds where lecturing won't.>
I speak only for myself unless otherwise stated. One personality is
enough, thank you.