Where can a helicopter land?
ds...@cox.net
have a PP ASEL w/ Instrument and 400 hours. I live in Arizona and am
thinking that a helicopter would be a great way to access the "back
country" and use as a way to get in and out of hiking areas, etc.
There seem to be plenty of clearings and other great places to land
that are all but inaccessible to a 4WD vehicle. (Plus, I've always
wanted to fly a helicopter)
So my question is, if I get the license will I be able to rent a
helicopter and land anywhere but at an airport or official heliport?
(If I'm limited to airports only, I might as well use a plane). I'd
like to be able to land at various isolated locations and maybe camp or
just hang out for the day. Can I legally do this with a helicopter
assuming that it isn't private land? Will anyone allow me to do this
with a rental?
If landing is not officially "allowed" am I better off asking for
forgiveness than permission? We're talking about areas that are almost
inaccessible by any other means. Likely, nobody would even notice that
I am there.
Is there a FAQ on this?
--Dan
Stuart & Kathryn Fields
to do is land and get caught with a helicopter in a "Wilderness" area. You
will quite likely be forced to disassemble the helicopter and pack it out.
I don't know of any rental helicopters that allow "Off Airport" landings. I
think that it is primarily an insurance issue. That said, I own an
experimental kit built helicopter that doesn't have those limitations and
can pretty much land in the outback at my leisure. There is of course a
dirt issue if the landing spot is loaded with "poof dust" it can get hairy
and a "Brown Out" can occur. Primary concern is to not cause any damage to
the landing area.
BTW if you can't land but still want to see the area, Low & Slow in a
helicopter is much easier and safer than the "Stuck Wing".
--
Stuart Fields
Experimental Helo magazine
P. O. Box 1585
Inyokern, CA 93527
(760) 377-4478
(760) 408-9747 general and layout cell
(760) 608-1299 technical and advertising cell
e...@iwvisp.com
www.vkss.com
www.experimentalhelo.com
sf...@iwvisp.com
<ds...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1161579931.5...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Dan
there any recreational use for a helicopter then? My "practical" use
of the airplane is to travel, but without being able to land
off-airport, it doesn't seem like a helicopter would be of much use...
--Dan
Steve R
message news:t7hqj2ts4j22d71k8...@4ax.com...> Yep, it's called the FAR/AIM... :)
>
>
Best answer yet!
B4RT
I land off airfields and desiganted helipads all the time. You just have to
have prior permission from the owner of wherever you're landing, and you
have to ensure that you have an adequate approach and departure corridor to
ensure you wont overfly non-permissioned areas too low. I also try to ensure
that theres at least 500-1000 feet to the nearest neighbor's stuctures.
Don't piss off livestock owners either. Scaring herds is bad karma.
One huge note of caution; you need to make sure the LZ is totally clear of
obstructions. A pipe or electric fencepost is almost impossible to see on
approach, and of course wires are a real nemesis too. I try for freshly
mowed/cut areas so I can see the that the cut pattern doesn't indicate going
around something.
Landing at unimproved places poses special challenges, and requires you to
really be on your game. If you're still uncomfy doing steep approaches to a
helicopter dolly or pinnacle I wouldn't reccoment it. I suspect that our
ability to do this is the biggest reason that helicopter insurance is so
much more than fixed wing with the same hull value. Afterall, the Jet Ranger
still has the best safety record of any single engine aircraft in the sky.
So it must be the crazy things pilots can get themselves into.
Bart
"Dan" <ds...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1161659679.5...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Dan
> importantly, the things that hold wires up!) buzzing the bushes out in
> the desert, landing on some remote peak just to check it out etc..
Doesn't sound like I could land on any "remote peaks" without at least
owning the helipcopter though, if I am understanding correctly.
--Dan
Kris Kortokrax
>> have a PP ASEL w/ Instrument and 400 hours. I live in Arizona and am
>> thinking that a helicopter would be a great way to access the "back
>> country" and use as a way to get in and out of hiking areas, etc.
>> There seem to be plenty of clearings and other great places to land
>> that are all but inaccessible to a 4WD vehicle. (Plus, I've always
>> wanted to fly a helicopter)
>
> property on the ground, you're good to go. "undue danger" is
> subjective however. What you may feel is perfectly safe might not be
> seen as the same to a person on the ground - or the local FAA official
> you'll need to explain your actions to.
>
There is no such rule regarding landing at a site other than an
airport/heliport. The phrase you are quoting is in reality "undue
hazard" (admittedly the meaning would be the same) and occurs in 91.119
and addresses minimum safe altitudes, not whether it is permissible to
land or not.
>
>> If landing is not officially "allowed" am I better off asking for
>> forgiveness than permission? We're talking about areas that are almost
>> inaccessible by any other means. Likely, nobody would even notice that
>> I am there.
>
> Get permission if you can. I've flown to a couple locations where I
> received permission (written!!) to land but I made sure to have other
> pilots on the ground acting as safety crew to make sure there are no
> knuckleheads in the area as I'm coming down to land.
>
> Now, having said that, I know of several pilots who have landed out in
> the boonies to go fishing and had no issues at all. These same guys
> have landed within earshot of a fire road and had some complaints by
> hikers which brought the Rangers out to see WTF was up.
Since you live in Arizona, you could do as I did and check the web site
for the Arizona Department of Transportation. Look at the Aviation
section, then State Legislation section, then Aircraft Operation.
There you will find the following:
28-8278. Landing prohibition; liability
A. Landing of aircraft on lands or waters of another without consent of
the owner of the lands or waters is unlawful, unless it is a forced landing.
B. The owner or lessee of the aircraft or the aeronaut is liable for
damages caused by a forced landing as provided in section 28-8273.
--------------------------------------------------------------
There may also be local ordinances that you need to deal with.
The following is from KVOZ news:
SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. Taking your helicopter to work from Scottsdale just
got a whole lot tougher.
Yesterday, the Scottsdale City Council voted unanimously to approve a
zoning ordinance that bans private aircraft from landing in neighborhoods.
The city has had an unwritten policy prohibiting private helipads in
neighborhoods since annexing north Scottsdale from Maricopa County in
the mid-1980s.
The zoning amendment approved yesterday put that policy on the books.
City planners say they feared that without the policy, more helicopters
would start hovering since street traffic is so congested. About three
years ago, some homeowners began complaining about noise from
heli-commuting neighbors.
>
>> Is there a FAQ on this?
>
> Yep, it's called the FAR/AIM... :)
>
>
Neither the FAR, nor the AIM addresses landing helicopters off-airport.
Kris
Steve R
"The OTHER Kevin in San Diego" <skiddz "AT" adelphia "DOT" net> wrote in
> On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:18:46 GMT, Kris Kortokrax <nos...@nospam.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>B. The owner or lessee of the aircraft or the aeronaut is liable for
>>damages caused by a forced landing as provided in section 28-8273.
>
>
The problem with that is, not everyone has commone sense!
>>
>>City planners say they feared that without the policy, more helicopters
>>would start hovering since street traffic is so congested. About three
>>years ago, some homeowners began complaining about noise from
>>heli-commuting neighbors.
>
> Heli noise is always a concern so this is no surprise. I love flying
> them, but I wouldn't want one landing in my neighborhood...
>
I wouldn't mind, as long as it was my helicopter and I was in it! ;-)
Stuart & Kathryn Fields
80' in back of my shop. I've personally contacted all of my neighbors and
they think it is great. Of course I do invite them all to a barbeque at
least twice a year. I seems that people out in the "outback" are more
lenient of aircraft operations. To date there have been no problems with
off airport landings.
--
Stuart Fields
Experimental Helo magazine
P. O. Box 1585
Inyokern, CA 93527
(760) 377-4478 ph
(760) 408-9747 publication cell
"Steve R" <srho...@houston.rr.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:%B50h.23311$ta3....@tornado.texas.rr.com...
Shiver
> Of course I do invite them all to a barbeque at
> least twice a year.
WHAT!!!!!!....... No free rides.
Stuart & Kathryn Fields
obtain than permission. If I give permission then I'm basically a party to
the event. This question may be related somehow to the "Don't Ask, Don't
Tell" philosphy.
--
Stuart Fields
Experimental Helo magazine
P. O. Box 1585
Inyokern, CA 93527
(760) 377-4478 ph
(760) 408-9747 publication cell
"The OTHER Kevin in San Diego" <skiddz "AT" adelphia "DOT" net> wrote in
message news:cr94k29rtacsl6mqv...@4ax.com...
>
> Yesterday, I got a call from the FAA in regards to certification of
> the flight sims we build here at work and an AC he was writing up and
> requesting comments on. After we got done talking business, I asked
> him about the whole issue we've been discussng and here's a synopsis
> of what the FAA's position is and how best to handle any off airport
> landings (Not including forced landing issues)
>
> The FAA is really only concerned with the safety of the operation and
> they leave it all up to the local governments to determine what's
> legal and what's not in regards to off-airport landings. Best
> practice would be to start with the state government and weed your way
> down to any local ordinances/codes for the area you want to operate
> in. Also, it would be a good idea to contact the FSDO for that area,
> inform them of what you want to do, where and when you want to do it
> and see what the FAA people there think. (In other words, cover your
> ass)
>
> If you can notify people in the area a week or so prior to your
> operations, that would be a good idea as well.
>
>
Joaquin
loaded up my wife and went out to Lake Mead just east of Las Vegas It
was April 1st, about 10 years ago. I went to a remote place in
northern Arizona and landed on a beach below the high water
mark...doing no damage to the surroundings etc. I have a seaplane
license and have landed, and camped on that same beach in a float
plane many times over the years. My wife took some pictures and I put
them up on my website. Within only minutes, some rat- bastard (fellow
aviator/helicopter pilot) named Joe Motter who lives in Hurricane
Utah, saw the photos, downloaded them to his computer and emailed them
to the Park Service. A week later I got a ticket in the mail for $300
for making this landing.
Although the Lake Mead National Recreation area is not an
environmentally sensitive area and the entire surface of the lake is
considered a "landing area" for float planes which can taxi up and
dock on a beach, setting down a delicate little Robbie on this beach
is a violation. And, it's not the government you have to worry about.
It's your own fellow aviators who will rat your ass out when they find
out, when they over-fly you. They'll jabber to ATC that you are
there, I've been ratted out for being in class Bravo airspace in my
glider by a Mooney pilot to ATC. It goes on and on.
The Park Service lead by their chief rat bastard pilot, Bruce Lennon
who lives in Boulder city even went out to that beach and shot photos
from the exact locations my wife had shot photos. This showed the
skid marks on the beach in case I were to deny the landing. They
required me to travel to Kingman Arizona (150 miles each way) to see
the federal magistrate or just forfeit my bail of $300 bucks. They
spent about $10,000 in paperwork and time just to play "Gotcha."
So, watch your six o'clock position with these little pukey federal
cops with nothing else to do in life but harass the public. If I had
of landed a Grumman Goose there, taxied up on the beach, left big tire
marks all over and dripped oil from the radial engines, that would
have been legal. But harmlessly putting a tiny, butterfly-like Robbie
on that beach was a federal offense. Somebody ought to start shooting
these bastards who promote this crap. I was 40 miles from anybody. It
was the middle of the winter and there was no harm one around. Just a
victimless crime that Bruce Lennon could use to fuck me over.
That's okay, Bruce, I have a long memory. One day I'll be in a
position where I can fuck you over and I will. That goes for the
prick named Bill Dickenson who runs that park too. And the little puke
who sent the pictures to them, Joe Motter, well, I've already had some
input into the folks who hire helicopter pilots about that rat fink.
In the last century aviators stuck together like AOPA tries to promote
now. But not anymore. The skies are loaded with assholes. You could
land your helicopter in a wilderness area and do absolutely no damage.
You probably wouldn't even be seen by anyone of authority. It's your
fellow pilots who might fly over you and see you that you have to
worry about. Cannibalism runs rampant with the pricks who fly
nowadays. They prey on their own like Joe Motter and Bruce Lennon.
Bill Phillipsl
Joaquin
>
>Stuart, I kinda picture the experimental folks a lot like the RC folks
>in that it's one big family and the bad eggs are quickly identified
>and "removed" from the group.. Am I correct in this thinking?
>
I think you are right. The homebuilders (experimental guys) do stick
together just like the RC guys do....I'm both. It seems that it's the
Johnny-come-lately assholes who cause the most trouble. I just had a
Lancair Legacy Built for me that I participated in for two years.
Martin Heisler was the master craftsman on the project. We all got
along and we did everything we could to build a great airplane but
take no bull shit from the regulatory assholes. We just did what we
had to do to make it work. Now I have a $300,000 airplane that I fly
all the time. Go look at it at:
http://www.geocities.com/bwbpilot/
The teamwork, the comraderie, the support of this team of folks was
unsurpassed by any project I ever worked on. It's like having a bunch
of brothers who would go to bat for you no matter what.
This airplane is well capable of breaking the speed limit below 10,000
feet and indicating over 250 knots. In fact it will indicate nearly
300 knots below 10k. But, there would be no one ever rat-you-out if
you did it and they were the passenger. Totally unlike Bruce Lennon
of the National Park Service who is a pilot and flies some little
chickenshit Cessna 182 on patrol all day long in the heat of the Las
Vegas summer. Great job he has flying in 120 degree wx and behind an
engine burning gas and heating the cockpit to 140 degrees F. Jesus,
I'm envious,aren't you?
He has the job he deserves. I pass him like he's standing still in
that Lancair Legacy and he's jealous as hell. One day, he'll screw up
and I just hope that I'll be watching when he does. I'm on that
bastard's six everytime I can be. I also want to announce that I try
to land in that "Recreational" area every single time I fly a
helicopter out there...every time. I have for years...hundreds of
landings...daily at times. I want the Park Service to know that. I
don't pay attention to the maps of the Park Boundaries or where I
land. I just make sure I'm not on the main routes from Las Vegas to
the Grand Canyon where there's an A-Star going over every 30 seconds,
because those sons a bitches would rat me out all on their own with no
help from the Feds.
Catch me if you can, you sons a bitches.
So, do what you want to do. I do. I do it even in spite. I'm going
to fly an R-44 tomorrow over that Park and I'm going to try to make at
least one or two landings in the remote areas of that Park that I pay
taxes to support. I won't disturb anyone. No one will see me, but
I'll laugh inside when I do because I'll know that when I do, I'm
fucking the system, that prick, Bruce Lennon and his boss Bill
Dickenson.
In reality their ruling is called administrative law. It's law
written by some little puke government employee (like them) in support
of some statutory regulation that gives them that power. It's no
different that the cops putting up a 55 mph speed limit sign. It's
not statutory law, it's admistrative law and it can be beaten in
court. Beaten easily. THey knew I'd beat them if I went to court, so
they made it hard on me so I'd have to travel 300 miles by car, stay
in a motel over night, etc. I asked them to move the case to Las
Vegas where I live, but they would only do that if I agreed to plead
guilty. That's extortion. I have that in a letter written by Bill
Dickenson.
What it boils down to is extortion of the public for extra taxes. It's
a mechanism for extra taxes on those of us who can afford to fly
helicopters. I asked that prick Bruce Lennon if I touched the water
with my skids and scooted up on the beach if that would be considered
a water landing and therefore legal because the lake is all a landing
area. He played Lawyer and told me NO becuase my helicopter was not
"float" equipped. So I went one step father and asked him if I were
in a hover over Boulder Beach and my skid just happened to touch the
ground with only about 3 pounds of weight if they'd consider that a
landing. YEP, that's a landing he said, but touching my skid to the
water (which is a landing area by administrative law) then sliding up
on a beach is not considered a water landing. Now, some little crumb
ball puke-pilot is playing lawyer.
On top of all of this, FAR 91.3 allows a pilot to deviate from any law
to preserve the safety of his flight. I had some vibration in my
antitorque pedals and made that landing as a precautionary landing
with my wife on board. I found some kite string in my tail rotor
blades near the hub. I told them that, but I had to plead guilty to
get the thing moved to Las Vegas, where I live or I had to take two
days to drive 300 miles to defend my FAR91.3 rights. I caved in on
it, but I will never forget it. It's what our government has turned
into. The regulatory agencies we fund to protect and serve us do
nothing but find excessive ways to tax us and abuse their power. I
filed a complaint with the Inspector General's office and found out
that the National Park Service is immune from them. The NPS does
their own investigations. Since that was many years ago, you'd expect
that I might have heard from those worthless bastards. Nope. Not a
word. the Wolves investigate their own raiding of the the hen house.
I got what I expected. NOTHING.
So, this gives you a bit of the insight into what you will be dealing
with. The little pricks who work for the government have no money,
are jealous of those of us who do and are poised to strike out and
nail us if they can. It's all jealousy. I pray that the government
screws them on their retirement in the end because America is broke.
I'd love nothing better than to see Bruce Lennon have to work at
McDonnald's when he's 80 years old because the NPS screwed him on his
retirement.
Oh, and did I tell you that he wears a gun? Oh, yeah, some little
pukey 182 pilot needs a gun to go flying over the Park. Too much.
Man, does he think he's a big man with that gun on his hip. He's
nothing but the shit I wipe off my shoes at night when I come home
from my walk through the park next door. But he has a gun. Wow, how
impressive. What a waste of taxpayer's money. He has a gun so he can
stop you and me from landing a little butterfly-like helicopter in the
Park. That's because he's most likely a coward and can't handle the
situation in person with words and communication....I mean, what
should I expect from a government puke?
Well, come and get me Bruce and Bill, and thanks Joe Motter for
ratting me out. I hope you get fucked one day by the Feds yourself.
It's all Karma buddies. It's all Karma. One day you might hear of
lightening striking some of these greedy, jealous assholes. You'll
know why. Nature has it's own way of taking care of the incompetent,
the greedy and the stupid.
Bill Phillips
JohnO
Joaquin wrote:
> .
<snip>
Hey mate, I can understand your frustration and anger. There's nothing
more irritating than small minded, petty, envious people.
But life's too short to be preoccupied with that shit. Getting dragged
down by that is gonna get in the way of you enjoying flying and life in
general. Rise above it man, literally and figuratively!
Badwater Bill
Yeah, it's good advice you give me mate. I haven't thought about it
in awhile (other than when I'm flying over MY PARK. Then I think of
it.
That man's post about where he can land just re-lit the fire in my
bones. I'm normally pretty reserved. I know that there will be about
ten people who will take my post here and forward it to those pricks.
Joe Motter will most likely lead the pack of wolves. That's more the
reason I wrote it than anything. I love to yank their chain and I
want them to know that I think they are the scum of the Earth.
I'm not through with them yet. I even wrote the President of the USA
on it and my letter was forwarded to some other jerk lawyer in the
Dept. of Interior who told me they had no statutory jurisdiction over
the National Park Service. I'm sure that letter went to Shit-head
Bill Dickensen and his lap-dog, Bruce Lennon. I'm retired, so I have
infinite time. My next step is to write the moron from the Inspector
General's office who wrote me to tell me they had no jurisdiction over
the NPS. I'll ask him what any smart person would have already
provided and that is the answer to "WHO does have jurisdiction over
them" so I can write to them and yank Dickensen's and Lennon's chain
some more.
In the USA here, if there aren't a few of us who cause these pricks to
re-think their aggressive and abusive actions toward citizens, then
they just get out of hand. They are actually lucky I didn't sue them
for abuse of power. I wouldn't have won, but I would have caused them
infinite grief. The next time they screw with me, I'm going to file
law suits against them all, even personally. Then we'll see how many
tickets these little government worms write without thinking after
they have to pay lawyers for about 5 years as I have mine do one
interrogatory after another that they MUST respond to.
That's what I should have done to begin with, but I hate lawyers and
the whole legal system of maggots who live and mooch in that system
more than I hate Lennon and Dickenson. I wish I had the law knowledge
myself to file against them, I'd do it. But, just dealing with the
maggot lawyers I'd have to deal with to screw with them isn't worth
it. I'd rather go flying, if you know what I mean.
Anyway, I thought you people might like to know how territorial these
people are. It's like that one guy said in this thread a few posts
back. If you do it wrong and land somewhere in some goofy wildlife
area, you'll be and A&P by the time they stop screwing with you,
because you'll have to dismantle your helicopter and trailer it out of
there if they catch you.
I flew Huey's back in the Viet Nam era. After the war, you could fly
anywhere, land anywhere and people were receptive because it was
unique and fun for them to see this machine come in and land. I land
here at my house across the street about 10 times a year. My
neighbors love to see the machine come in. I've taken them all for
rides and I have a gyrocopter I fly off the street here too. They are
all respective of the problems of rotorcraft flight and they enjoy a
ride now and then. I'm lucky to be able to do this without some
jealous asshole filing some sort of complaint. But what it boils down
to nowadays is jealousy by your own fellow pilots, more than your
neighbors, or some scroungy park ranger/pilot who wears a gun on his
hip and he's a gonna enforce the LAW by God, at your expense. The old
free days are all over.
I've ferried helicopters for Jerry Airola from Phoenix to Las Vegas
for years (Silver State Helicopters). There is nothing but open
territory between here and there. But God help you if you were to
land on some bush that's rare and it's in some wildlife preserve. My
advice to that fellow who wants to get a helicopter license is "Do
your homework" on it before you land out somewhere. His attitude was
one of "I'd rather ask forgiveness than permission." That doesn't
work at all. If you land out there and you are on some
environmentally sensitive acreage, then you will be fined. You might
have to dismantle your machine as someone else said.
Do your homework. They little government pukes are just looking for
something to "Make their day," and you can be the target so easy.
I soloed in 1961 and have about 6000 hours in helicopters and
airplanes. I've seen it change over the last 45 years from people
enjoying and working with aircraft to downright abuse of power, like
the NPS at Lake Mead. It's a different world now. You don't get
forgiveness when you ask for it. You get fined or imprisoned. Be
careful.
Bill Phillips
Badwater Bill
never worked for him in any way, and have not endorsed him or his
company on this website. You have no clue what I might think about
Jerry Airola do you?
You might like to know, too, that I was not posting here to gain your
respect. Since I have no clue who you are, or whether your respect
is something I should have. Your comment is certainly nasty. Snap-
judgment from some simple little words I've written on the Internet.
Very shallow thinking, unless of course you are trying to use this
forum to make a point that you don't like Jerry Airola!
You don't have a clue who I am, my accomplishments in life, my
degrees, my military achievements, what wars I've fought in, what
battles I've won and lost, what loved ones I've lost in battle, to
cancer, or even murder. What a short-sighted thing to say to a
complete stranger just because once, about 5 years ago, I accepted
some free helicopter time to do Silver State Helicopters a favor for
no pay, have some fun in an R-22 at no expense to myself and do Mitch
Mignano (the Director of Ops at that time) a favor.
I suspect that you have other problems in life from this simple little
nasty remark made from incomplete data and no knowledge of who or what
I might be. Maybe I don't like Jerry Airola either. How would you
know? You never asked.
Do you feel this way about every one of the people who might fly a
helicopter that's owned by Jerry Airola?
I'll give you one little clue about one little thing I did once. I
was the president of the Mini-500 builder's organization. I ran for
that position and was elected by a couple hundred people. I did that
because I felt that helicopter was a death trap. I did everything I
could have possibly done at that time to expose the weaknesses of that
machine and the greediness of dennis flitter (fetters). I had a lot
of help from the people who were in the organization...it wasn't
single handed. But I feel that we saved lots of lives from those
people who might have been buyers of that piece of crap, then never
bought one. Dennis threatened to kill me right here on this newsgroup
about 10 years ago and the FBI has all the secret emails he sent me to
tell me he was going to kill me, as if I were the one responsible for
the closing of his plant. Actually, I had very little to do with it.
The Internet was newer then and communication was just ramping up in
these ng's. The builders themselves posted day after day all over the
Internet about what a death trap that machine was. Fred Stewart,
flitter's chief salesman began to see that they were killing people
and he gave me a Mini-500 helicopter. So, I owned one. I could go
look at it and see the places and parts on it which I felt were
substandard. I would then confirm that my opinion was identical to
whomever posted the problem here on this very ng. That's was all we
did. We exposed what we thought were the deficiencies in it and
fetters (I still refuse to capitalize that prick's name) would whine,
bitch and crawl back here with some half assed defense.
The Mini-500 was a magnificent looking machine and appeared to be the
solution to many, for an inexpensive space machine to give them the
freedom of flight. I felt it was a machine built out of K-Mart parts
that wore out in about 20 hours at most. Even the control system had
some of these problems. Anyway, this very ng was the battling ground
for many owners of that helicopter and I was elected their
representative. dennis never sold another helicopter as far as I
know, and if he did, it was to some unsuspecting poor slob who didn't
do his research or was in a foreign country.
So, because I owned a Mini-500, flew it and was the president of the
builder's association, do you now NOT respect me because I flew a
machine purchased and built from parts that were made in dennis
flitter's factory? If so, then you'll be using the same logic you did
in your snipe at me from the post you made.
If you do.....you have some personal problems that I would never be
able to understand.
You don't have clue who I am, what my missions were, what I've done,
who I have liked and disliked and what I might do next. Be careful
what you write about here when you judge people. You only get a tiny
view of who and what they are all about from the few words they type
in and post to this ng.
Of course, I'm sure that most of this will have no meaning to you and
that you are a complete idiot to begin with or you'd have never made a
post like that. You actually should be ashamed of yourself.
Badwater Bill
>You just lost any respect I may have had for you. This guy is a
>world-class piece of excrement.
Camel
> You might like to know, too, that I was not posting here to gain your
> respect.
Of course you were, you always blow yourself up bigger-than-life.
Like "I flew Huey's back in the Viet Nam era." isn't true. You didn't fly
them, you rode in one.
> What a short-sighted thing to say to a
> complete stranger just because once, about 5 years ago, I accepted
> some free helicopter time to do Silver State Helicopters a favor for
Oh. What happened to "I've ferried helicopters for Jerry Airola from
Phoenix to Las Vegas for years (Silver State Helicopters)" ??
Andrew Crane
"The OTHER Kevin in San Diego" <skiddz "AT" adelphia "DOT" net> wrote in
> Like I said before, I've been flying with this particular outfit for a
> couple years so I get a little more leeway than freshly ticketed
> folks.
>
> Insurance policies may dictate the restrictions more than anything...
Put it this way -- they are only going to find out if you mash the heli. If
you mash it, they will not be pleased. Does it matter that much if they are
miffed just because you mashed it, or are miffed because you mashed it in a
place you did not have permission to land? A light came on and you did a
precautionary landing right?
First rule I live my life by: "It is always easier to get forgiveness than
permission".
Regards
Andrew
Airman
helicopter in the field and went for a walk. I was 35 miles from any
town or village. When I returned to the helicopter I found a couple of
volunteer patrol guys on bikes by the copter and they had called the
landing in to the park authorities. I told them I was OK and had to
land to check a chip light. I could hear the woman dispatcher saying
tell the pilot to stay we have rangers on the way to arrest him.
That's when I said good-bye. Six months after the incident I received
an undated letter from the Parks Department saying a pilot had landed
the helicopter on state land and that was illegal. It should be noted
that four wheelers love to tear up the park when it gets wet, but that
is OK.
Another time I landed in a slot canyon out of the way of the four wheel
traffic. I was exploring the cayon when I saw a ranger drive up to me
and ask if that was my helicopter I said it was and he told me I was on
State Park land and could not be there. I was shocked and expressed
taht I was sorry and had no idea this was a park. the ranger was
really cool and said that in 20 years of patrolling this park he had
never seen a helicopter in the cayons. He agreed that the four
wheelers caused much more damage but just asked me to not land there
again. I was respectful to this ranger and he was very respectful
back.
Where can you land, wherever you do not get caught.
Badwater Bill
be a great forum before fucksticks like your worthless anonymous ass
showed up. Forget that I even had anything to say here. I should
have known better. All the good people left long ago.
Badwater Bill
Badwater Bill
>Badwater Bill bellowed:
>
>> You might like to know, too, that I was not posting here to gain your
>> respect.
>
>Of course you were, you always blow yourself up bigger-than-life.
>Like "I flew Huey's back in the Viet Nam era." isn't true. You didn't fly
>them, you rode in one.
Really, thanks for setting that straight. It's been about 35 years
now and I'd sort of forgotten. I guess, after about 3000 in the front
left seat I never took the stick eh. Yeah, the PIC is in the right
seat, so I never flew...just sat on my ass for two years and rode in
the Huey. I guess I just dreamed it. What the hell, you fuckers tell
it any way you want to tell it.
I guess since you are an expert on my life in Nam, you should post on
my behalf from now on. You are just another annonymous prick who
probably has had a limp dick for 30 years and jack off to seeing your
great words of pontification here.
>> What a short-sighted thing to say to a
>> complete stranger just because once, about 5 years ago, I accepted
>> some free helicopter time to do Silver State Helicopters a favor for
>
>Oh. What happened to "I've ferried helicopters for Jerry Airola from
>Phoenix to Las Vegas for years (Silver State Helicopters)" ??
Well, since you know more about my life than I do, why don't you post
it and tell it the way it happened. You tell it. You all know more
about me than I do. Besides, my mind is fading a bit after all the
years of flying, especially thumping along in the government crap like
UH-1H's. Fucking thing can't even carry enough ammo to run the Spooky
gun. It's all running together on me anymore anyway...so you muther
fuckers just tell it the way you think it might have happened.
I know one thing, I'd love to have your annonymous ass sleeping next
to my hooch in the jungle near Da Nang for about a half a night. We'd
see who'd be crying for momma at about 2 a.m. when the VC mortaring
had kept up for about 4 hours.
You are the kind of mother fucker who gets fragged on your first
patrol. I'd like to turn some of you candy assed cock-suckers over to
some of the great men I flew out into the jungle with. The Airborne
Rangers...especially the LRP's. You probably don't even know what a
fucking lurp is, you candy ass mother fucker. It's someone who'd
"Slurp" you up in a Texas heartbeat and have you begging for a bullet
between your fucking eyes.
BBBWWAHHAHHAHHHa
Fuck off mate.
Badwater Bill, I'm out a here. Bunch of candy ass wanna bees, just
like I remembered it was here.
Camel
> On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 20:58:32 -0800, Camel <hu...@sessile.org> wrote:
>>Badwater Bill bellowed:
>>
>>
>>>You might like to know, too, that I was not posting here to gain your
>>>respect.
>>
>>Of course you were, you always blow yourself up bigger-than-life.
>>Like "I flew Huey's back in the Viet Nam era." isn't true. You didn't fly
>>them, you rode in one.
>
>
> Really, thanks for setting that straight. It's been about 35 years
"and I probably rode on the damn things for
about 5000 hours on that cot in the back or in the left seat. So,
yes, I did sleep a lot in them. In fact I slept most of the time if I
didn't have to do something."
http://groups.google.co.in/group/rec.aviation.rotorcraft/msg/49ab1a6bbd3c169a
Thurs, Jul 30 1998
"Do you know the rpm of the main rotor system in a UH-1H. I rode in
them for years about 30 years ago and I forgot"
http://groups.google.co.in/group/rec.aviation.rotorcraft/msg/7c30c123d2307a5d
Thurs, Aug 6 1998
>>>What a short-sighted thing to say to a
>>>complete stranger just because once, about 5 years ago, I accepted
>>>some free helicopter time to do Silver State Helicopters a favor for
>>
>>Oh. What happened to "I've ferried helicopters for Jerry Airola from
>>Phoenix to Las Vegas for years (Silver State Helicopters)" ??
>
>
> Well, since you know more about my life than I do, why don't you post
> it and tell it the way it happened. You tell it.
It's *your* contradiction, you explain it.
"I've ferried helicopters for Jerry Airola from
Phoenix to Las Vegas for years"
"once, about 5 years ago, I accepted
Elzee36
> >>Badwater Bill bellowed:
> >>> "and I probably rode on the damn things for
> about 5000 hours on that cot in the back or in the left seat. So,
> yes, I did sleep a lot in them. In fact I slept most of the time if I
> didn't have to do something."
> http://groups.google.co.in/group/rec.aviation.rotorcraft/msg/49ab1a6bbd3c169a
> Thurs, Jul 30 1998
> > "Do you know the rpm of the main rotor system in a UH-1H. I rode in
> them for years about 30 years ago and I forgot"
> http://groups.google.co.in/group/rec.aviation.rotorcraft/msg/7c30c123d2307a5d
> Thurs, Aug 6 1998
> > "once, about 5 years ago, I accepted
> some free helicopter time to do Silver State Helicopters a favor"
OOOOOPS!!!! LOLOLOLOLOL!!!