U.S. Army Aviation flight suits=beret fiasco
mya...@my-deja.com
Army clothes woes
If Army leaders ever quell the uproar over issuing black berets to
every soldier, not just the elite Rangers, they might want to examine
unhappiness over helicopter flight suits.
Gen. Eric Shinseki, Army chief of staff, recently announced the
new beret-wearing policy as a morale builder, only to see special-
forces soldiers howl in protest.
Less-audible griping is going on among Army aviators. They had to
relinquish their more distinctive one-piece flight suit in favor of the
Aviator Battle Dress Uniform (ABDU), a trouser-coat ensemble issued in
1996. Now, they look like every other soldier.
Aviators tell us the old one-piece looks better, lasts longer and
is unique among the Army's 450,000-plus soldiers.
"The only good use of the ABDU is in the field," one pilot tells
us. "When you need to go to the latrine, you don't have to take half
your clothes off to do it."
"Most people I know feel the ABDU is an attempt by the senior
leaders in aviation to strip us of our aviation identity, and blend us
in with the rest of the Army," he added. "For whatever reason, a lot of
the Army resents the Aviation Branch and our leaders, instead of
holding fast and trying to take care of aviation and aviators, try to
placate the other branches by trying to make us more like them.
"Hence, the ABDU. I can only speak for myself. I didn't go to
flight school to be like everyone else. I wanted to be an Army aviator."
Maj. Scott Ross, spokesman at U.S. Army Aviation Center at Fort
Rucker, Ala., said aviator trainees are issued three two-piece flight
suits upon arrival. Once they join an operational unit, it is up to
commanders to decide whether they may switch to the old suit, he said,
adding that most commands stick with the camouflaged ABDU.
Maj. Ross, an aviator, said the newer suit is "more practical."
"When you're out in the field and have a one-piece, just to go to
the bathroom, you have all this gear you have to take off and pull down
the flight suit . . . . Just because we're in the cockpit doesn't mean
we can't look just like the rest of the Army."
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Jim Carriere
> http://www.washtimes.com/national
...
> "The only good use of the ABDU is in the field," one pilot tells
> us. "When you need to go to the latrine, you don't have to take half
> your clothes off to do it."
> Maj. Ross, an aviator, said the newer suit is "more practical."
> "When you're out in the field and have a one-piece, just to go to
> the bathroom, you have all this gear you have to take off and pull down
> the flight suit . . . . Just because we're in the cockpit doesn't mean
> we can't look just like the rest of the Army."
Hmm, the old flight suits must have been pretty bad if you had to take
them halfway off just to go to the can (making inflight relief much more
difficult!).
The flight suits I have (and every flier in the US Navy, not just rotary
wing) two zipper handles- one to open from the top, and one from the
bottom (for peeing obviously)-really simple, it's even quicker than with
pants. I thought all flight suits were made like this?
If you're really clever, you don't even have to unstrap to <insert
clever metaphor for urination here> in flight, but I'm not gonna provide
any details on that :)
Dan & Jan Hollenbaugh
USAF) - it isn't urination that they're talking about.......
Jim Carriere wrote in message <3A315E2F...@attglobal.net>...
Dangerpig
Paying twice the amount for an ABDU than a one-piece flight suit is a lot to
pay just to be able to relieve oneself in a more dignified manner. If they
(Rucker) can't see why aviators aren't happy wearing those ugly-ass ABDU's
then it is no wonder they are loosing pilots faster than they can make new
ones. You'd think they would try to understand the kind of people that want
to be Army Aviators if they actually wanted to fix the problem of pilot
retention.
"Jim Carriere" <car...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:3A315E2F...@attglobal.net...
Jim Carriere
> They still do. Army flight suits are cut to the same pattern as USN (and
> USAF) - it isn't urination that they're talking about.......
You can't be serious... no, you are serious. I didn't think they could
possibly that. If I have to do "number two," I do it before I put all
my gear on and go fly, doesn't everyone? I didn't realize relieving
one's self was supposed to be such a dignified act.
Well, I've always respected Army aviators, and I have to say I feel
pretty bad that they have to deal with this.
On a tangent to this, about a year ago I heard that whoever procures
flight gear was, among other things, looking extend the lower end of the
zipper. This yield a real practical improvement of making it much
easier for female flight crew to urinate in flight, and to me sounded
like an intelligent uniform change.
Dan & Jan Hollenbaugh
and finish each day in a place with running water and warm rooms. Army
aviators, when deployed, live in tents (if they're lucky - spending the
night in the back of a UH-60 is not uncommon). There's not a lot of room or
time for changing uniforms. When you live in a flight suit, taking a dump
is a matter to be considered.
(How did we get into this ridiculous conversation, anyway?)
Dan H.
Jim Carriere wrote in message <3A326FE9...@attglobal.net>...
Dangerpig
suits to wear. Think about where the Army operates and then let us know how
you would handle it.
"Jim Carriere" <car...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:3A326FE9...@attglobal.net...
Rick Troxell
and after the fielding of the ABDU, I have to say that I still prefer the
one-piece nomex flightsuit to the ABDU any day of the week. It is simply
not that difficult to go "number two" while wearing the one-piece.
(Although a good friend of mine once soiled the collar of his flightsuit
during a particularly urgent egress from the aircraft, as his system
couldn't tolerate kim chee.)
Most of us simply resented the premise of the ABDU, that is that the
aviation branch apologists sold out to their other combat arms brethren.
After all, we can't have a bunch of damn aviators looking different. Get
'em in something that looks like a set of BDU's.
A friend told me the following story years ago:
Ft. Hood had just recieved its first shipment of ABDU's. My friend,
following command guidance, had gotten the rank, nametags, etc. sewn on his
brand new ABDU's and was wearing them in garrison as prescribed. He had
gone to the PX and was waiting to check out when he noticed a full Colonel
(Armor) behind him in the line who was giving him the "evil eye". This
Colonel was glaring at him and looking at his uniform from top to bottom.
Keep in mind that this was a "squared away" soldier who always kept his
boots polished and hair well within the regs. After he checked out, the
Colonel hurredly paid for his own items and actually ran after him to catch
him before he could get to the parking lot. When he caught up to him he
"locked his heels" and proceeded to scream at him loudly for daring to make
his own modifications to "My Army's" uniform. "How dare you have velcro sewn
on the pocket flaps and cuffs!" "You pilots are all scum!" (Being sharp,
he'd noticed the wings.) "Who is your commander?!" etc., etc.,. Although
my friend tried to explain, the Colonel wouldn't even let him speak. He
just continued his red-faced ranting. And to think that the whole thing was
brought about in an effort to appease people like him.
ax57
"Dangerpig" <dng...@vvm.com> wrote in message
news:higY5.61445$IP1.1...@news1.giganews.com...
CavGuy
"Dangerpig" <dng...@vvm.com> wrote in message
news:DRxY5.64650$IP1.2...@news1.giganews.com...
Dangerpig
SMG in the same PX. He was able to show the SMG the tag on the inside of
the coat, who then didn't even bother to apologize.
It has always been my contention that if Aviation worried about getting it's
job done and supporting the people we need to support in a professional
timely manner then the rest will take care of itself. The guys at the head
shed worry too much about what the guys with the crossed rifles and treads
think about us. As long as we are doing our jobs to the best of our
ability, I could give two sh--ts what an infantry guy thinks about me.
"Rick Troxell @snowhill.com>" <troxellr<nospam> wrote in message
news:3a32...@news.snowhill.com...
Bob Barbanes
>As long as we are doing our jobs to the best of our
>ability, I could give two sh--ts what an infantry guy thinks about me.
But you'll give them a lot more easily and comfortably in the ABDU's ;-)
John Eacott
"Dangerpig" <dng...@vvm.com> wrote in message news:gKBY5.48614$%j3.5...@news6.giganews.com...
> I have a similar story about one of my crewchiefs getting dressed down by a
> SMG in the same PX. He was able to show the SMG the tag on the inside of
> the coat, who then didn't even bother to apologize.
Not confined to the Brown Jobs. I lost count of the number of times I had to explain to various
senior Naval Officers that I was entitled to wear the Jacket, Cold Weather, Flying, that was issued
to me when on an RAF base. Seemed to be the Done Thing in those days to have totally impractical
kit for RN aviators, I remember the horror that greeted the introduction of collar attached shirts,
not that I was a great fan of collar studs at the best of times. And as for the story behind the
introduction of the Woolly Pully........
--
John Eacott
The Helicopter Service Australia
www.helicopterservice.com.au
Dangerpig
misinformed about the conditions in which we have to operate as Army
Aviators.
It's just in a desperate search to find anything good to say about Abdul's
we come to the, "Taking a Dump" issue, and that's all anyone can come up
with. Abdul's are pathetic attempt by the senior leaders to try and suck up
to the to the other combat arms.
Are you in Conroe by the way?
"CavGuy" <CavGu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3a32...@news.snowhill.com...
Dangerpig
I really never have had a problem with a one-piece in the field. It's just
that feature is about the only good thing that anyone can find about ABDU's.
"Bob Barbanes" <bh2...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001209214707...@ng-da1.aol.com...
Dangerpig
my spell checker next time. :0news:eOKY5.66992$IP1.2...@news1.giganews.com...
Jim Carriere
> Oh, I agree. It just seems that the previous poster seems to be slightly
> misinformed about the conditions in which we have to operate as Army
> Aviators.
Fair enough, I've camped without running water for a week before, but I
didn't wear a jumpsuit and it wasn't with a few hundred of my closest
friends. Obviously pretty different.
> It's just in a desperate search to find anything good to say about Abdul's
> we come to the, "Taking a Dump" issue, and that's all anyone can come up
> with. Abdul's are pathetic attempt by the senior leaders to try and suck up
> to the to the other combat arms.
And this was more of the point I was trying to make- having to put up
with lame excuses, not sacrificing amenities like civilized shelter and
facilities.
Hopefully nobody gets a bright idea like one helmet for aviators and
ground pounders (uhhhh, now I've jinxed you).
<>
When I was a kid I wore one piece pajamas that had a flap in the back for
when nature called.
Maybe the Army should have looked into upgrading their Nomex flight suits in
a similar fashion....
"Dangerpig" <dng...@vvm.com> wrote in message
news:JPKY5.67002$IP1.2...@news1.giganews.com...
Yekim
laugh about this thread.
Back in the mid to late 60s, US Army Aviation went from gray fire-retardant
one-piece flight suits (which we all loved) to two piece Nomex suits that
were
horrible and resented and hotter, but were supposed to resemble regular
uniforms. Yeech! In Vietnam, a few of us continued to wear the gray suits
anyway.
No one complained about switching from white helmets to OD, though, a little
while before I went in. What a target!
I'm glad to see some things never change...
Regards,
yekim
former pilot OH-13, UH-1, TH-55
Darin Ninness
> Jim, you have to realize - these aren't USAF or USN aviators who
start out
> and finish each day in a place with running water and warm rooms.
Army
> aviators, when deployed, live in tents (if they're lucky - spending
the
> night in the back of a UH-60 is not uncommon). There's not a lot of
room or
> time for changing uniforms. When you live in a flight suit, taking a
dump
> is a matter to be considered.
>
> (How did we get into this ridiculous conversation, anyway?)
I gotta agree with Dan here.. When I was in Korea, our first sergeant
was such an anal retentive type that while we were "tactical" in the
field, we had to get all gussied up in our John Wayne gear to hike from
the aircraft to the field latrine (essentially an outhouse looking
device with a cut-off 55-gal drum for storage of the, uh, "output").
Once, there, you had to remove your load bearing equipment (ammo
pouches/canteens/assorted other pouches), your protective mask bag &
your pistol holster before you could take the top half of your flight
suit down. Oh, and if its the winter time, you may be wearing a flight
jacket or an N2B parka. And be careful in the crapper, as you don't
want one of these components to fall someplace where retrieval is an
issue..<GRIN>
While I think the ABDU may have solved a small part of that equation,
I don't ever recall wearing all that jim-jam while taking a
consitiutional in BDUs, either.. :( The ABDU looks crappy though. I
thought they learned their lesson with the 2-piece in Vietnam..
Darin
CH-47C, 67-18500
Korea, '86-'89
Brad Boss
First of all they look terrible...The bottoms are usually a different shade
than the top because they almost never fade the same. Secondly, do you think
I'm gonna spend $10 every time to get all my stuff resewn on the top when I
tear the ass out of the bottoms, and I DX them at CIF? Not...They are not at
all constructed as well as the one peice flight suits. The fabric tears much
easier. You know how to tell a crew chief (or Flight Engineer for us CH-47
guys...hehehe ) from a pilot? Take a look at his leg pockets...They
probably have holes in them from a screwdriver tearing through it. The one
pieces had the little thigh pocket...All just to keep us looking the same as
the rest of the Army. Can't go around looking different now can we? And if
somebody has a problem wearing a flight suit and taking a crap...well, you
need manage your diet and plan accoordingly....
Brad B...