Frozen Flaps
brian whatcott
The other day I flew on a chilly evening just above freezing.
I applied flaps in the pattern, and when I landed, the flaps didn't want
to retract
I had earlier exercised the flaps on preflight without problem
and before the plane was put away, the flaps went up OK.
I guessed that the actuator froze up, so it probably needs lube to keep
the water away.... The flap motor fuse checked OK of course...
Any thoughts?
Brian W
Scott Braddock
Brian,
The most common cause of "frozen flaps" in Cessnas like yours are the
limit switches on the flap actuator, rather than the actuator itself. A
judicious application of a heat gun, through the appropriate inspection
panel, will free them up for a while. They are relatively inexpensive
to replace, however, and that's what is needed for a more permanent fix.
Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane
Dan_Thom...@yahoo.com
> The most common cause of "frozen flaps" in Cessnas like yours are the
> limit switches on the flap actuator, rather than the actuator itself. A
> judicious application of a heat gun, through the appropriate inspection
> panel, will free them up for a while. They are relatively inexpensive
> to replace, however, and that's what is needed for a more permanent fix.
Those little microswitches get oil in them from the jackscrew
threads, and the oil draws dust and crud and gunks up the switch
contacts with sludge. In the cold the sludge will congeal and make the
switch's mechanism stick, too. Replacing them is the best thing, and
you want to do it soon. If you had to abort a landing and go around,
the flaps on a 150/152 will hurt the climbout dangerously; there's
just too much drag.
Dan
Jeffrey Bloss
There's too much jackscrew grease or the lube's spreading too easily if
its getting to the switches. Get it right. Alaskan 261 was running a
failing jackscrew which looked like lube drift.
--
_?_ Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
(@ @) Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-oOO-(_)--OOo-------------------------------[ Groucho Marx ]--
grok! Devoted Microsoft User
Gezellig
> On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:45:18 GMT, wrote:
>
>> On Dec 13, 3:35 pm, Scott Braddock <scottd...@PSAMgci.net> wrote:
>>
>>> The most common cause of "frozen flaps" in Cessnas like yours are
>>> the limit switches on the flap actuator, rather than the actuator
>>> itself. A judicious application of a heat gun, through the
>>> appropriate inspection panel, will free them up for a while.
>>> They are relatively inexpensive to replace, however, and that's
>>> what is needed for a more permanent fix.
>>
>> Those little microswitches get oil in them from the jackscrew
>> threads, and the oil draws dust and crud and gunks up the switch
>> contacts with sludge. In the cold the sludge will congeal and make
>> the switch's mechanism stick, too. Replacing them is the best
>> thing, and you want to do it soon. If you had to abort a landing
>> and go around, the flaps on a 150/152 will hurt the climbout
>> dangerously; there's just too much drag.
>
> There's too much jackscrew grease or the lube's spreading too easily if
> its getting to the switches. Get it right. Alaskan 261 was running a
> failing jackscrew which looked like lube drift.
I thought the 261 failed because it wasn't lubricated, maybe not. What
that has to do with a 150/2, I have no clue.
Ross
When I had the Skyhawk and cleaning of relube of the jack screw for the
flaps was mandatory at annual. Has this been done? Or the motor can be
wearing out. the track on the flap rollers needs lubrication also.
--
Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
Sold :(
KSWI
brian whatcott
Brian W
Dan_Thom...@yahoo.com
> There's too much jackscrew grease or the lube's spreading too easily if
> its getting to the switches. Get it right. Alaskan 261 was running a
> failing jackscrew which looked like lube drift.
> --
Huh. I wonder if you've ever had anything to do with these things?
Cessna calls for SAE 10 non-detergent oil on the jackscrew every 100
hours. The microswitches are mounted immediately below the jackscrew
and sooner or later the oil gets onto and into them. It's a poor
setup. The older airplanes get moly disulphide grease.
Alaska's problem was too little of the right lube. It was a stab
actuator jackscrew, not a flap jack, and once the screw's nut threads
failed the stab did its own thing. If a flap jackscrew fails it'll
either jam in some position or the flaps will retract. The airplane is
still flyable. Cessna has other flap problems, like the roller sleeves
slipping sideways on their bearings and cutting a disc out of the flap
support arm and causing flap jamming. There was an SB on that in '96
or so. The only bits on the flap itself that need a little oil are the
flap roller bearings, not the tracks. Oiling the tracks attracts dirt
and lets the rollers slip instead of roll and they'll get flat spots.
Dan
Gezellig
wrote:
Jeffrey's struggling, let's all bow and say a prayer for him :0)
Jeffrey Bloss
Alaskan 261's jackscrew was dry in the middle but lubed at the ends.
Looks the lube got scraped away. The 150/152 has jackscrews for its
flaps.
brian whatcott
> When I had the Skyhawk and cleaning of relube of the jack screw for the
> flaps was mandatory at annual. Has this been done? Or the motor can be
> wearing out. the track on the flap rollers needs lubrication also.
>
Good question. I don't see a record of the jackscrew lube on the last
annual - but I haven't looked for it either....
Thanks
Brian W
Jeffrey Bloss
I spoke to an experienced mech and he knows what he's talking about
on that Alaskan 261. He said the jackscrew was dry in the middle.
It's obvious the grease must have scraped along. Nothing to do with
all those different types of grease. Your expertise has been exposed
as a sham. lol.
Mark
> On Dec 14, 1:02 am, Jeffrey Bloss <jeffreybl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > There's too much jackscrew grease or the lube's spreading too easily if
> > its getting to the switches. Get it right. Alaskan 261 was running a
> > failing jackscrew which looked like lube drift.
> > --
>
> Huh. I wonder if you've ever had anything to do with these things?
> Dan
Hi Dan. What you wanna do is never respond to that poster
again, or better yet, killfile that name. It reads our posts,
runs to google to "brush up", then hurrys back to insult you.
Killfile it or don't ever read it or answer.
---
Mark
Gezellig
Better yet, dump both you loons into the killfile.
*PLONK*
Dan_Thom...@yahoo.com
You can talk to anyone you want. The NTSB talked to everyone
involved and investif=gated the bits of broken airplane, and wrote
this report:
http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2002/AAR0201.pdf
Argue with that.
Dan
Mark
> Better yet, dump both you loons into the killfile.
>
> *PLONK*-
Sock puppet, I hope you did.
--
Mark
Jeffrey Bloss
> On Dec 15, 5:51�am, Jeffrey Bloss <jeffreybl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:42:52 GMT, �wrote:
>> > On Dec 14, 1:02�am, Jeffrey Bloss <jeffreybl...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >> There's too much jackscrew grease or the lube's spreading too
>> >> easily if its getting to the switches. Get it right. Alaskan
>> >> 261 was running a failing jackscrew which looked like lube
>> >> drift.
>>
>> > Huh. I wonder if you've ever had anything to do with these
>> > things? Cessna calls for SAE 10 non-detergent oil on the
>> > jackscrew every 100 hours. The microswitches are mounted
>> > immediately below the jackscrew and sooner or later the oil
>> > gets onto and into them. It's a poor setup. The older airplanes
>> > get moly disulphide grease.
>>
>> > Alaska's problem was too little of the right lube. It was a
>> > stab actuator jackscrew, not a flap jack, and once the screw's
>> > nut threads failed �the stab did its own thing. If a flap
>> > jackscrew fails it'll either jam in some position or the flaps
>> > will retract. The airplane is still flyable. Cessna has other
>> > flap problems, like the roller sleeves slipping sideways on
>> > their bearings and cutting a disc out of the flap support arm
>> > and causing flap jamming. There was an SB on that in '96 or so.
>> > The only bits on the flap itself that need a little oil are the
>> > flap roller bearings, not the tracks. Oiling the tracks
>> > attracts dirt and lets the rollers slip instead of roll and
>> > they'll get flat spots.
>>
>> > Dan
>>
>> I spoke to an experienced mech and he knows what he's talking
>> about on that Alaskan 261. He said the jackscrew was dry in the
>> middle. It's obvious the grease must have scraped along. Nothing
>> to do with all those different types of grease. Your expertise
>> has been exposed as a sham. lol.
>
> You can talk to anyone you want. The NTSB talked to everyone
> involved and investif=gated the bits of broken airplane, and wrote
> this report:
>
> http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2002/AAR0201.pdf
>
> Argue with that.
>
> Dan
That's typical, you just cut and paste other documents because
you've got points of your own. I speak from experience not other
documents. It's not worth me explaining it to you if you don't
listen.
Jeffrey Bloss
You have no class when you resort to insults. I have a Seneca outside
but you only have a trailer home.
a
Hmm. New purchase? Congratulations. In the insurance thread you wrote
that you rented. Owning, and I speak from long experience, is the way
to go if you're going to fly more than 150 or 200 hours a year in a
complex single.
Mark
> Hmm. New purchase? Congratulations. In the insurance thread you wrote
> that you rented.
Yeah, that's the thing about being a liar, they can't
remember what they said. <laughing>
---
Mark
Dave Doe
says...
Jeez, get with it man - did that weeks ago :)
--
Duncan.
Gezellig
Duncan, a little sloooow over here :)
Jeffrey Bloss
Having a liar's diary like yours is nothing to be proud of, Mark(ie)
boy.
Jeffrey Bloss
> Hmm. New purchase? Congratulations. In the insurance thread you
> wrote that you rented. Owning, and I speak from long experience,
> is the way to go if you're going to fly more than 150 or 200 hours
> a year in a complex single.
I met a guy who was at the launch party of the Boing Dreamliner at
the Everett plant. Awesome plane.
Terry
news:sZadncpcvfDe8rnW...@giganews.com...
Hi Brian
Just thought I'd pass this along. You probably know all this
anyway but.....
I've never had a problem with the flaps on my Cessna 150F but I use
the
standard 10 downwind, 20 on base and keep it on 20 on final until I'm
close
enough to the numbers to check for deer, runway is clear etc before I
use the
30 flap setting and only if I need 30 which is rare. I know my C150
will fly with
20 degrees of flap. With 20 I can arrest the descent and climb out.
When doing T & G's always put your two eyes on the flaps to verify
they have gone back up before
lifting off the ground. May not seem like it but you have plenty of
time while accelerating. Just a quick glane out both sides. If one
doesn't look right
stay on the ground and shut it down. You don't want one flap handing
down on
climb out. Winter can cause unusal problems such as a piece of ice
getting
someplace it doesn't belong.
Just a few thoughts to pass along to all that read this newsgroup...
Terry N6401F
brian whatcott
having seen what 40 years of landings do to a tail tie down eye bolt -
its lower surface is about 40% its original thickness....
About deer: I hear some unicom chatter from a field 30 miles down the road:
* take care for the deer inside the fence line
* Those aren't deer they're hogs.
* There are deer AND hogs.
Which reminded me of the intelligence from the homeowner where I keep a
horse:
"deer are becoming a nuisance so the does are open every hunting dasy.
And I know a man at Dallas who will purchase live wild hogs - he fattens
them for the top drawer restaurant market as wild boar: which they are,
essentially...."
Brian W
Robert Moore
>With 20 I can arrest the descent and climb out.
In fact Terry, FAR Part 23 requires that your aircraft and all of the
Cessna 150/152/172 series be able to execute a go-around at the maximum
flap setting at the maximum TOGW. This requirement is what actually sets
the maximum TOGW for these aircraft.
Several years back, Cessna was able to raise the Maximum TOGW of the C-
172 by 100 lbs by simply removing the 40 degree flap setting.
Section 23.77: Balked landing.
(a) Each normal, utility, and acrobatic category reciprocating engine-
powered airplane at 6,000 pounds or less maximum weight must be able to
maintain a steady gradient of climb at sea level of at least 3.3 percent
with-
(1) Takeoff power on each engine;
(2) The landing gear extended;
(3) The wing flaps in the landing position, except that if the flaps may
safely be retracted in two seconds or less without loss of altitude and
without sudden changes of angle of attack, they may be retracted; and
(4) A climb speed equal to VREF, as defined in 23.73(a).
Bob Moore, ATP CFI
PanAm (retired)
Terry
news:Xns9CE45C9166BF3Rm...@69.16.185.247...
Hi Bob
Your correct in every aspect. I know what my airplane is capable of
at or near gross. I know that I can climb at 30 degrees of flaps but
not the 40 degrees that my C150 has. I was just trying to put some
general guidelines into winter flying with an underpowered 100hp
engine. I don't know if a new student or experience pilot such as
yourself is reading this newsgroup. :) Have a nice Holiday Bob.
Terry N6401F
Dan_Thom...@yahoo.com
> "Robert Moore" <Rmoor...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
That full-flap go-around requirement is likely based on
standard conditions. 15°C and sea level. Don't try it on a warm day
here at 3000' ASL or you'll end up in the crops.
Dan
Gezellig
wrote:
It is.
>Don't try it on a warm day here at 3000' ASL or you'll end up
> in the crops.
>
> Dan
In my case, the salty drink.
Ken S. Tucker
> "Robert Moore" <Rmoor...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
I flew a Cessna 150 that had 40 deg flap, which was a hoot,
the 152 only had 30 deg flaps.
Though I've never had a flap problem I'll add that under some
weather conditions, a cold a/c decending into humid air will
frost up, I feel that could freeze the flaps.
Ken
Dan_Thom...@yahoo.com
Frost is a phenomenon that forms only in still air. And it
wouldn't freeze the flaps. For frost to form, the aircraft surface
cools through radiative cooling to below the air temperature when the
dewpoint and temp are really close. When there's much wind the
aircraft surface is kept at air temp through convection. Some old
pilots used to burn off light frost just by taking off. That's now
illegal in Canada.
Ice, on the other hand, can form in flight but that flight has to
be into fog or cloud or rain consisting of supercooled water droplets,
which are below the freezing point but still liquid. Water can exist
as a liquid down to -20°C. The airplane's surface will be below
freezing because of the air temp, and any change in air temp will
change the very light aircraft structure's temperature quickly.
Dan
Morgans
<Dan_Thom...@yahoo.com> wrote
> The airplane's surface will be below
> freezing because of the air temp, and any change in air temp will
> change the very light aircraft structure's temperature quickly.
Dan,
Ken is back. He is afraid of flying anything but Microsoft Simulators.
I have a feeling he is the same poster as Flaps50 and Flaps, or whoever the
troll of a name close to that uses.
Best advice is to ignore. He knows nothing of real airplanes, but likes to
pretend that he does. I guess he has to be called down when he gives unsafe
advice, though.
I'll have to put him back in the kill file, since he snuck back in after my
reformatting.
--
Jim in NC
Cliveden Chew Haas
> Ken caught trolling as Mark aka Marcus Aurelius
Mark(ie) on Mark(ie):
Retired aka lazy, bored and too stupid to do shit anymore - "I've since
moved on to guitars, turbojets, alternative energy, and Victory
gardens."~sci.physics
Obese - "I have my own weight issues" ~misc.news.internet.discuss
Troll/Forger - Admitted ~rec.aviation.piloting
Philosopher - "Most people live lives of quiet desperation."
~alt.support.depression.manic
BiPolar FukkNutzoid - "Its really less about how we got this way, and
more about who we're going to become." ~alt.support.depression.manic
Claims To Be Uber-Wealthy - "It's only $500,000 dollars..."
~misc.writing
Brilliance...In His Own Mind - "But what makes me a creative genius.."
~misc.writing
Founder of Art Academy - "Nor was it when I founded a school of the arts
in my name..." ~misc.writing
National Politician and Grand Entreprenuer - "convincing the chairman of
the bank and head of the Georgia Republican party to fly to Washington,
D.C. and within 3 days bring me a Small Business Admin.check for 350
thousand dollars." ~misc.writing
Loved By Celebrities - "Mark Who Was Invited By Elvis To Graceland"
~signature several newsgroups
Cuntsman - "Some cute little brunette named Tammy steal her boyfriend's
car and credit cards and put me up on the 14th floor of the "Yachtsman"
for a week in Myrtle Beach, while spending thousands by day, and
smoking the sheets by night." ~misc.writing
Google Profile - "I am a Renaissance Man. I'm still attempting things
people think are impossible. I'm a dichotomy, a soft diamond, a
militaristic saint, and always a very wise fool."
--
Oh, the excitement!
http://tr.im/1f9b
Mark
wrote:
How fascinating. Tell us more about Me. What else
have I done? I hope it's as exciting as this post!
Next time make my dick 2 feet long. OK?
---
Mark
Jeffrey Bloss
My dick is 3 feet long. lol.
RC_Moonpie
heh
What a tool.
the extremophile
*PLONK* Mark, the Xposting asswipe.