Aviation Career after 40
Robert F Gagliardo
retiring from my current job in
fall 2004. My goal is to have my instrument,commercial and CFII, by then I
will be 44yrs old .
With realistic expectations,what kind of aviation career can I expect
understanding I need more training
and alot more HOURS.
Desert Dog
58 when he started flying for the first time. Initially there are plenty of
jobs instructing (low pay, but gives you a chance to build hours). After
you have the hours the world is open to you.
"Robert F Gagliardo" <gag...@optonline.net> wrote in message
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C J Campbell
half as much as you would have if you stayed in your current career.
Typically you would end up flying for a regional or possibly corporate
somewhere.
John
(FBO, charter operation, repair facility). If you have entreprenurial
abilities, want to be involved with aviation on a full time basis and
have some funds available to help you purchase, then you could have an
interesting, (possibly) lucrative lifestyle built around aviation.
You would need a good business sense, and managerial abilities for it
to work. Also the ability to make hard, dollars and cents decisions
regarding the operations.
Many people will tell you that that an FBO operation is a hard
business to succeed financially at. They are right. However, if the
business is priced low enough, and is backed with hard assets such as
aircraft, real estate, etc. then your downside risk can be managed or
at least estimated. Something to think about if you are really want
to jump into the industry with two feet.
Regards,
John
David Megginson
> I am aware of two established aviation businesses that are for sale.
> (FBO, charter operation, repair facility). If you have entreprenurial
> abilities, want to be involved with aviation on a full time basis and
> have some funds available to help you purchase, then you could have an
> interesting, (possibly) lucrative lifestyle built around aviation.
I heard about an investment call-in on the radio once. A middle-aged
couple called in and said that they were considering investing some of
their retirement savings in a restaurant. The expert gave them this
advice:
1. Go to the bank and withdraw all your savings in cash.
2. Drive onto to the freeway.
3. Open the windows and throw the money out.
He said that they'd be further ahead this way, since at least they
wouldn't end up in debt and lose their house.
Of course, the same thing applies to any business, especially if it
has some glamour attached (true both of aviation and the restaurant
business). People sometimes do make money in these things, but not
very often.
Personally, I'd suggest that if you're absolutely convinced you want
to start an aviation business, you go and get 3-5 years' experience
before investing your money. If you want to own an FBO or charter
service, go somewhere and work for a year as a line guy (seriously),
then spend some time on dispatch, and try to work your way up to
manager. You'll probably still fail, but at least you'll have a
small chance.
All the best,
David
--
David Megginson, da...@megginson.com, http://www.megginson.com/
kontiki
well off (to the extend that you could survive even on a minimum wage job).
:o)
Actually I have a somewhat similar goal. I'm 49 and working on my
CFI. But I have a full time job (in the computer insdustry) and hopefully
I can hold on to that for as long as I can take it. :o) My kids are gorwn
and I pretty much have my life to myself so I can afford to be a bit
reckless.
As long as you are well esrablished and your living requirements are
minimal (and you have a good aptitude for flying) you can enjoy a
nice semi-retirement as an instructor.... with hours of boredom
punctuated by moments of sheer terror.
Semper Fi
Desert Dog
consulting/programming and can still do some of that while instructing. I
kind of look at it as semi-retirement also.
Semper Fi
"kontiki" <whir...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
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Bush
right seat for a fractional.
Bush
Dennis O'Connor
terror, punctutated by moments of boredom...
Denny
"Desert Dog" <dese...@logicsolvNOSPAM.com> wrote in message
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Tony Aponte
I am 52 (most days, at least) and I am working toward my CFI rating. I
already make more money in aviation than the $10,000-- cfi below because
I have been using my creative imagination.
From what I have seen, most pilots on the "CFI road" seem to think that
they must follow the traditional path of PPL-IR-Commercial-CFI-CFII to
just get to the front door of poverty. This just isn't true.
As a private pilot I took the GBI (ground instructor) test and began
teaching a ground school course at local FBO's. I approached the FBO and
asked, "If I round up a dozen or so students for you would you give me
50% of the enrollment, space to operate, and use of the xerox?" Most
businessmen cannot resist the thought of more potential pilots hanging
out and spending money so I got a resounding "yes" to each FBO I
approached.
I then wrote a book on VOR navigation which, in a test publication, sold
out. I now have a publisher about to publish my book.
Rod Machado suggested something which is both fun and profitable: Give a
seminar at an FBO on some topic dear to a pilot's heart--Mountain
Flying, Icing, Aircraft Ownership, Airspace, GPS Navigation, etc. Charge
something minimal for attendance and sell books and materials at the
seminar. Do a great job and you can establish a mailing list to send out
your new newsletter to which, of course, announces other seminars and
items of interest to the aviation community. By the time you are a bona
fide CFI you have a built in clientele.
I know a friend that takes pictures of Mt. Ranier for a living. I am his
pilot. We fly low over some local town with Mt. Ranier in the background
(Mt. Ranier can be seen from most towns in this state!) and he snaps off
pictures which are turned into postcards. He then visits the towns and
sells them to the local merchants.
One more idea and I will end this long, long post: A friend of mine
owns a beautiful 48 Stintson which he loves to fly into the back strips
of WA, ID, and Mt. He and I are collaborating on a book about the best
back country airstrips. We fly into some podunk airport, take pictures,
interview the locals, camp out, and the book seems to be writing itself.
It's the best 'job' I have ever made for myself.
Bottom line advice: Don't wait for someone to hire you; use your brains
to hire yourself.
Happy flying!
Tony
Rosspilot
>to hire yourself.
You got that right :)
Rosspilot
www.skyviewpictures.com
Peter MacPherson
"Tony Aponte" <artsyoneNO...@attbi.com> wrote in message
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Edward Todd
Tony Aponte <artsyoneNO...@attbi.com> wrote:
> Bottom line advice: Don't wait for someone to hire you; use your brains
> to hire yourself.
>
Exactly. Have a camera? Start taking some photos out the open window of
a 150 or 172 or similar. With a little experience, and some marketing,
you can make your flying pay for itself .... and some on top as well. I
started off with aerial photography as a method of paying for my hobby
of flying. I now fly for free and make a good percentage of my income
this way. Another year or so and it may develop into full time.
Edward
Tony Aponte
Peter MacPherson wrote:
> Excellent post Tony!
Thanks!
Now make sure that you attend my seminar on "How to get rich as a
Private Pilot over 40". ;-)
C J Campbell
as something of a part time job. They supplement their income with seminars
and books, as Tony is doing, or they have other interests. I know pilots who
raise pecans, own oil wells (surprising, really, how cheap you can buy an
oil well), have successful professional practices, etc.
I lease airplanes, keep busy with real estate and other investments, and
publish a checklist. Juggling all these activities can be a pain sometimes,
but it keeps me off the streets. I even manage to find time to volunteer
with the church and Boy Scouts, devoting at least two days a week to these
activities.
Rick
post ?
Rick
"Tony Aponte" <artsyoneNO...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3E10EDF...@attbi.com...
Tony Aponte
thread. Here is one more to fan the embers a bit...
I have a lady acquaintance that ferries aircraft from the USA to Europe.
(Did you know that there is almost a complete land route to Europe? I
think the only water is across the Bering Strait (about 30 nautical?).)
She charges big bucks for this.
Tony
Paul Sengupta
Greenland, Iceland, Scotland. You get the prevailing
winds with you. The longest sea crossing is about 8 hours
for your average single though, so it generally needs a
ferry tank fitted.
Your way round is a long way, usually done by people
on round-the-world flights! Didn't realise people ferried
light aircraft that way...you have to cross a lot of political
hurdles. You need to take a Russian navigator with
you, and it's a very good thing if you can run mogas!
Paul
"Tony Aponte" <artsyoneNO...@attbi.com> wrote in message
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C J Campbell
I would love to hear them too. Sounds like a great idea for a new
thread. Here is one more to fan the embers a bit...
I have a lady acquaintance that ferries aircraft from the USA to Europe.
(Did you know that there is almost a complete land route to Europe? I
think the only water is across the Bering Strait (about 30 nautical?).)
She charges big bucks for this.
Tony
===================================
I have not tried ferry flights, except one with a student who was flying his
own plane back from the factory. I usually can't get away that long. I do
get a lot of aerial photography and sightseeing flights. There is one guy
who flies regularly with me that does economic surveys for fast food
restaurants.
One of our instructors is a psychologist who gives seminars on conquering
the fear of flying. He really packs them in, too. I wish he did them more
often.
My AllATPs flying buddy never did do any instructing. He bought an old 172
and flies aerial surveying missions all over the Midwest all summer. He
can't take a regional airline job because it would be a cut in pay.
I have heard of a guy who owns a Caravan and flies it for FedEx to the San
Juans every day. He also does the ground delivery route and gets paid for
that, too. He probably does all right.
Although I did not yet have the hours to fly charter myself, my airplanes
did pretty well, losing far less money this year than the year before. At
the current rate of business growth, 2003 should be profitable, and I will
be doing more of my own flying, too. My most steady customers are cellular
phone companies -- they fly crews out to construction sites.
But most of all, I made more on commissions from airplane sales than I did
instructing. If you want a new Cessna, I am the guy to see. :-) I can put
you into a fractional plan, set up your partnership, or do just about
anything else to make the deal work.
Tony Aponte
Paul Sengupta wrote:
> Your way round is a long way, usually done by people
> on round-the-world flights! Didn't realise people ferried
> light aircraft that way...you have to cross a lot of political
> hurdles. You need to take a Russian navigator with
> you, and it's a very good thing if you can run mogas!
IIRC...She said she flew up through Canada (Which required her to be
checked out by some government offical to see if she was properly
equipped and experienced enough to make the journey) through Alaska to
Fairbanks, then across the Bearing Strait to Russia and all the way
across the top! Yep, it's the long way round' but there are no 8 hour
stretches across the water which she dearly fears.
On the last trip, she was flying an A36 Bonanza. Can you use mogas in a
Bonanza?
Tony
Peter Duniho
> [...] Yep, it's the long way round' but there are no 8 hour
> stretches across the water which she dearly fears.
There aren't any *eight* hour legs going across the Atlantic either, are
there? Except maybe in a Cub or something really slow like that (which I'd
think would be more easily transported by air freight or ship).
In any case, sounds to me like a classic example of penny-wise,
pound-foolish. Sure, she can be over land almost the entire route the other
way, but it's not like much of that land is all that more hospitable than
the icy waters of the North Atlantic. She's also more likely to have a
problem with the airplane because the route is so much longer.
How does she convince the aircraft owners to pay for the longer route? Does
she operate with smaller margins than other ferry pilots? Is she just so
good that she can command the higher cost?
The whole thing seems very odd to me, for this to simply be her regular
practice when ferrying from the US to Europe. Has she mentioned to you any
additional details that would clarify things a bit?
Pete
Tony Aponte
Peter Duniho wrote:
>
> There aren't any *eight* hour legs going across the Atlantic either, are
> there?
I was keying off of what Paul said in his post :
"Most people go the Atlantic route...Newfoundland,
Greenland, Iceland, Scotland. You get the prevailing
winds with you. The longest sea crossing is about 8 hours..."
> In any case, sounds to me like a classic example of penny-wise,
> pound-foolish. Sure, she can be over land almost the entire route the other
> way, but it's not like much of that land is all that more hospitable than
> the icy waters of the North Atlantic. She's also more likely to have a
> problem with the airplane because the route is so much longer.
Are you trying to make sense out of her (possibly) irrational fear of
the water? You'd have about as much chance changing her mind about the
route as you would convincing her that her drive to the airport is
inherently more dangerous--though both may be absolutely true. :-)
>
> How does she convince the aircraft owners to pay for the longer route? Does
> she operate with smaller margins than other ferry pilots? Is she just so
> good that she can command the higher cost?
She's a good pilot. However, I know nothing about her private business
arrangements or ability to operate on a presumably profitable margin.
She is fairly well off financially...maybe therein lies your answer.
>
> The whole thing seems very odd to me, for this to simply be her regular
> practice when ferrying from the US to Europe. Has she mentioned to you any
> additional details that would clarify things a bit?
Who said it was her 'regular practice'? All I said she did it and told
me that she was paid for it. How many times she has done it (or how much
profit there is in it) is not something I know. Would you like me to ask
her?
Tony
Peter Duniho
> "Most people go the Atlantic route...Newfoundland,
> Greenland, Iceland, Scotland. You get the prevailing
> winds with you. The longest sea crossing is about 8 hours..."
Ahhh...okay. Still sounds longer than I thought, but then I haven't flown
the route myself so what do I know?
> Are you trying to make sense out of her (possibly) irrational fear of
> the water?
Well, when you put it that way. :) But basically, yes...I guess I am.
Foolish though that may be.
> Who said it was her 'regular practice'? All I said she did it and told
> me that she was paid for it. How many times she has done it (or how much
> profit there is in it) is not something I know. Would you like me to ask
> her?
Well, it's not like I really need to know, but sure...I'm definitely curious
if she is able to generate a lot of business under those restrictions. I
got the impression from your initial post on the subject that this was a
regular thing for her, but that's just what I read into what you wrote. I
agree you didn't actually specify.
Pete
Paul Sengupta
A Bonanza would be faster, but then it may take a more direct
route. You can go from Goose Bay to either Sondrestrom, Nuuk
or straight to Narsarsuaq. You can then go to the other side of
Greenland, or straight toReykjavik or straight to Scotland.
Depends on speed, range, and how much you want to travel
over water.
Just looked up: http://www.indo.com/distance/index.html
It says Goose Bay to Sondrestrom is 871nm, if you go direct,
rather than the least water route. Note this isn't 8 hours over
water, especially if you take the least water crossing route.
I'd say the longest bit over water is Iceland to Scotland,
about 650nm? Call it 6.5 to 7 hours in a Warrior.
Paul
"Tony Aponte" <artsyoneNO...@attbi.com> wrote in message
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Paul Sengupta
"Tony Aponte" <artsyoneNO...@attbi.com> wrote in message
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Tony Aponte
Paul Sengupta wrote:
> http://www.gruner.com/flight/chapter2/
Nice article! I am gonna read it again!
Tony
Tony Aponte
years back so my memory is kinda spotty (as usual!). The feeling I got
was that she had done this several times in that past year, though she
did not specifically state it. Her husband, a doctor and accomplished
pilot, usually accompanied her.
I see the confusion I caused because I sort of implied that she was some
poor pilot (like myself) scraping to get together some avgas money who
stumbled upon a goldmine. That just isn't the case. It might well be
that she just travels in certain circles that afford her the opportunity
to shuttle for a select and affluent crowd.
Check out the link though that Paul provided for some insights.
I will let you know what she said after I tell her that I have been
instructed by an anonymous source to grill her on the details. :-)
Tony