Aeronca Champ takes off without pilot
Charles K. Scott
Saw a news blurb this morning on NBC; an Aeronca Champ had apparently
been hand propped and the throttle setting must have been a **BIT**
high because it took off on it's own after starting and landed out of
fuel ninety miles from the home field.
It landed in a "bean patch" and was substantially damaged but was
intact. AV News reported it climbed to an estimated 12,000 feet before
the engine quit.
One wonders what was going through the mind of the owner as he watched
it head off by itself.
Corky Scott
Andrew M. Sarangan
In article <65c374$jl4$1...@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>,
The way I heard it, the pilot jumped out of the airplane once he found
that the throttle was stuck on high. The plane took off by itself and crashed
90 miles away.
--
Andrew Sarangan
PP-ASEL
John R. Johnson
That sure sounds silly. You would think he would of at least switched
off the mags! That would stop it pretty soon. He must have been on the
ground with he jumped out. I hope he get some retraining before he flys
again.
By the way, having flown all over the country with airplanes with no
electrical system, I am well aware of the difficulty in propping by
yourself. There are several simple and cost free ways that accident
could have been prevented.
John
Colleen Condron
In article <65cnld$3k...@musca.unm.edu>, sara...@unm.edu (Andrew M.
Sarangan) wrote:
> In article <65c374$jl4$1...@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>,
> Charles K. Scott <Charles...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> >Saw a news blurb this morning on NBC; an Aeronca Champ had apparently
> >been hand propped and the throttle setting must have been a **BIT**
> >high because it took off on it's own after starting and landed out of
> >fuel ninety miles from the home field.
> >
> >It landed in a "bean patch" and was substantially damaged but was
> >intact. AV News reported it climbed to an estimated 12,000 feet before
> >the engine quit.
> >
> >One wonders what was going through the mind of the owner as he watched
> >it head off by itself.
>
>
> The way I heard it, the pilot jumped out of the airplane once he found
> that the throttle was stuck on high. The plane took off by itself and crashed
> 90 miles away.
>
Happened here in OH---according to the nooze, the pilot was handpropping,
the throttle loosened/was jiggled/somehow ended up "hot", and the plane
taxiied and took off....flew for two hours.
Personally, I plan to use this instance as an example to friends and
acquaintences
who fear the plane will fall like a rock if a pilot even dreams of taking
his/her
hands off the yoke......I always tell people "the plane WANTS to
fly"...this plane
proved me right!
Colleen
PP-ASEL
Sean Franklin
Andrew M. Sarangan wrote in message <65cnld$3k...@musca.unm.edu>...
>In article <65c374$jl4$1...@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>,
>Charles K. Scott <Charles...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>>Saw a news blurb this morning on NBC; an Aeronca Champ had apparently
>>been hand propped and the throttle setting must have been a **BIT**
<snip>
>
>The way I heard it, the pilot jumped out of the airplane once he found
>that the throttle was stuck on high. The plane took off by itself and
crashed
>90 miles away.
There'z a blurb of it at
http://biz.yahoo.com/upi/97/11/24/general_state_and_regional_news/usemptypl_
1.html
--
Sean Franklin
Indianapolis / Plymouth, Indiana
John R. Johnson
On 24 Nov 1997, Charles K. Scott wrote:
> Saw a news blurb this morning on NBC; an Aeronca Champ had apparently
> been hand propped and the throttle setting must have been a **BIT**
> high because it took off on it's own after starting and landed out of
> fuel ninety miles from the home field.
>
> It landed in a "bean patch" and was substantially damaged but was
> intact. AV News reported it climbed to an estimated 12,000 feet before
> the engine quit.
>
> One wonders what was going through the mind of the owner as he watched
> it head off by itself.
>
> Corky Scott
>
"Aw S**t" was called on the flying field! :-)
JOhn
john....@schwab.com
In article <65c374$jl4$1...@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>,
Charles...@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott) wrote:
> One wonders what was going through the mind of the owner as he watched
> it head off by itself.
>
> Corky Scott
Perhaps something like, "Bye-bye, hope to see you again sometime!".
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
John R. Johnson
On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, Sean Franklin wrote:
> Andrew M. Sarangan wrote in message <65cnld$3k...@musca.unm.edu>...
> >In article <65c374$jl4$1...@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>,
> >Charles K. Scott <Charles...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> >>Saw a news blurb this morning on NBC; an Aeronca Champ had apparently
> >>been hand propped and the throttle setting must have been a **BIT**
>
> <snip>
> >
> >The way I heard it, the pilot jumped out of the airplane once he found
> >that the throttle was stuck on high. The plane took off by itself and
> crashed
> >90 miles away.
>
> There'z a blurb of it at
> http://biz.yahoo.com/upi/97/11/24/general_state_and_regional_news/usemptypl_
> 1.html
Ok. That news blurb explains it nicely. He was shooting landings. Engine
stopped. He is in the middle of the runway by himself. No starter on a
Champ. Loose throttle. Throttles always vibrate OPEN, not closed! He
got out and propped it. It sped up and lurched away. He couldn't catch
it. It went to full power. Took off, trimmed for normal climb. Stable
airplane. Climbed until it ran out of fuel. Engine quit, and it nosed
over into a glide. Glided until it ran out of altitude. Sort of like
a big free flight model. Probably a hard landing. No noticeable flare!
John
Daniel C. Hawkins
According to the Dayton Daily News (It happened near Dayton, O), the pilot
landed because of some unnamed trouble. After repairs, he was hand
cranking (no electrical starter on the craft) as it started, it back-
fired, blowing the throttle open. the craft then accelerated across
the field and took off on its own.
John R. Johnson (jo...@siu.edu) wrote:
> On 24 Nov 1997, Andrew M. Sarangan wrote:
>
> > In article <65c374$jl4$1...@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>,
> > Charles K. Scott <Charles...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> > >Saw a news blurb this morning on NBC; an Aeronca Champ had apparently
> > >been hand propped and the throttle setting must have been a **BIT**
> > >high because it took off on it's own after starting and landed out of
> > >fuel ninety miles from the home field.
> > >
> > >It landed in a "bean patch" and was substantially damaged but was
> > >intact. AV News reported it climbed to an estimated 12,000 feet before
> > >the engine quit.
> > >
> > >One wonders what was going through the mind of the owner as he watched
> > >it head off by itself.
> >
> >
> > The way I heard it, the pilot jumped out of the airplane once he found
> > that the throttle was stuck on high. The plane took off by itself and crashed
> > 90 miles away.
> >
> That sure sounds silly. You would think he would of at least switched
> off the mags! That would stop it pretty soon. He must have been on the
> ground with he jumped out. I hope he get some retraining before he flys
> again.
>
> By the way, having flown all over the country with airplanes with no
> electrical system, I am well aware of the difficulty in propping by
> yourself. There are several simple and cost free ways that accident
> could have been prevented.
>
>
> John
>
--
______________________________________
|
| To fly a kite is to hold God's hand.
| Dan Hawkins
| dHaw...@one.net
|______________________________________
Gorman
Charles K. Scott wrote:
> One wonders what was going through the mind of the owner as he watched
> it head off by itself.
>
> Corky Scott
One possibility:
"Excuse. Excuse. I've got to think of a really, really good excuse."
Another possibility:
(read in your best Homer Simpson impersonation) "Doh!"
Sean Franklin
Daniel C. Hawkins wrote in message <65cpfr$g87$1...@news.one.net>...
>According to the Dayton Daily News (It happened near Dayton, O), the pilot
>landed because of some unnamed trouble. After repairs, he was hand
>cranking (no electrical starter on the craft) as it started, it back-
>fired, blowing the throttle open. the craft then accelerated across
>the field and took off on its own.
Anyone ever wonder why FAR's don't require a licensed pilot at the controls
when hand-cranking? Oh, never mind... THEY DO! :-)
Roy Smith
> I always tell people "the plane WANTS to fly"...this plane
> proved me right!
I remember hearing that it made it up to 12,000 (although I have no idea
how theh figured that out). I didn't know a Champ could get that high,
but I guess without a pilot weighting it down, it would get a little bit
of extra performance :-)
--
Roy Smith <r...@popmail.med.nyu.edu>
New York University School of Medicine
550 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016
Roy Smith
Charles...@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott) wrote:
> Saw a news blurb this morning on NBC; an Aeronca Champ had apparently
> been hand propped and the throttle setting must have been a **BIT**
> high because it took off on it's own after starting and landed out of
> fuel ninety miles from the home field.
Dammit, why was this posted to rec.aviation.piloting! This newsgroup is
for talking about piloting airplanes. Obviously, if it took off with no
pilot, nobody was piloting it, so it doesn't belong here.
Please, people, read the FAQ and try and post appropriately! It really is
rude to just post to some random newsgroup where your article doesn't
belong!
Keith Arnold
> >One wonders what was going through the mind of the owner as he watched
> >it head off by itself.
>
> that the throttle was stuck on high. The plane took off by itself and crashed
> 90 miles away.
>
> Andrew Sarangan
> PP-ASEL
Kinda silly. Shut off the fuel or switch off the mags. Or even slam on
a break and ground loop it. Must have heard that from CBS.
--
ôżô - Keith - N3431R - Southern California
Keith Arnold
Daniel C. Hawkins wrote:
>
> According to the Dayton Daily News (It happened near Dayton, O), the pilot
> landed because of some unnamed trouble. After repairs, he was hand
> cranking (no electrical starter on the craft) as it started, it back-
> fired, blowing the throttle open. the craft then accelerated across
> the field and took off on its own.
>
Keith Arnold
John R. Johnson wrote:
>
> Ok. That news blurb explains it nicely. He was shooting landings. Engine
> stopped. He is in the middle of the runway by himself. No starter on a
> Champ. Loose throttle. Throttles always vibrate OPEN, not closed! He
> got out and propped it. It sped up and lurched away. He couldn't catch
> it. It went to full power. Took off, trimmed for normal climb. Stable
> airplane. Climbed until it ran out of fuel. Engine quit, and it nosed
> over into a glide. Glided until it ran out of altitude. Sort of like
> a big free flight model. Probably a hard landing. No noticeable flare!
>
> John
Sounds like you've never known this kind of thing to ever happen
before. Try it yourself. Set up a climb at, say, 80 IAS to 5000 feet
then reduce power to idle and see what angle and speed you get. It
would be fun, right?
Keith Arnold
You're being funny, right Roy?
Scott Geeding
I instruct at an airport a few miles south of Urbana where the plane took
off. Our "Breakfast Club" was there and witnessed the whole thing.
Apparently, the guy landed and his engine quit upon touchdown, and he rolled
off the side of the runway in the grass. He hand-propped it and it fired
and took off in a steep-banked turn, nearly hitting one of our "Breakfast
Club" members as he landed. The plane continued to fly - turning, stalling,
looping, etc. a few hundred feet above the airport for several minutes, then
stabilized and climbed off to the east. Someone else jumped in their Navion
and tracked it for awhile, and reported it at 10,000'. The two highway
patrol aircraft tracked it the rest of the way, reaching a max altitude of
12,000. The pilot said it had 1.5 hrs of fuel, but it wasn't quite max
power, so it flew for 2 hrs before running empty and gliding into a field.
Garner Miller
In article <65csdj$ekj$1...@news.iquest.net>, "Sean Franklin"
<sfra...@dont.want.no.spam.medispan.com> wrote:
> Anyone ever wonder why FAR's don't require a licensed pilot at the controls
> when hand-cranking? Oh, never mind... THEY DO! :-)
Uhhhhhh...where?
Garner Miller
> > Dammit, why was this posted to rec.aviation.piloting!
> --------->
> You're being funny, right Roy?
I thought it was hysterical! :-)
rec.aviation.pilotless?
peter robert lehner
On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, Roy Smith wrote:
> > I always tell people "the plane WANTS to fly"...this plane
> > proved me right!
>
> I remember hearing that it made it up to 12,000 (although I have no idea
> how theh figured that out). I didn't know a Champ could get that high,
> but I guess without a pilot weighting it down, it would get a little bit
> of extra performance :-)
I heard that the state police helicopter followed it.
Nothing to back that up, though.
peter
Tom Wilson
In about 1961 or 1962 I hand cranked a aeronica and it was set on high
throttle, it took off with me hanging out the side, I did manage to
climb in and get it under control, boy did I learn from that :-))
Tom Wilson
Mike White
r...@popmail.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) wrote:
>Dammit, why was this posted to rec.aviation.piloting! This newsgroup is
>for talking about piloting airplanes. Obviously, if it took off with no
>pilot, nobody was piloting it, so it doesn't belong here.
Hmmm...
Suppose Roy is trying to be funny?
Mike White
Student Pilot
Comair Aviation Academy
Orlando, FL
William LeFebvre
In article <347a3303...@news.iag.net>, Mike White <mwh...@iag.net> wrote:
>r...@popmail.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) wrote:
>
>>Dammit, why was this posted to rec.aviation.piloting! This newsgroup is
>>for talking about piloting airplanes. Obviously, if it took off with no
>>pilot, nobody was piloting it, so it doesn't belong here.
>
>Hmmm...
>
>Suppose Roy is trying to be funny?
I'm with Roy. Take it to rec.aviation.non-piloting
or better yet, rec.aviation.drone
:-)
Now the *real* question is: can he log the time!?!?!?!?
Even if it went through clouds?
:-) :-)
--
William LeFebvre
Group sys Consulting
<w...@groupsys.com>
+1 770 813 3224
J P Rourke
w...@groupsys.com (William LeFebvre) wrote:
>In article <347a3303...@news.iag.net>, Mike White <mwh...@iag.net> wrote:
>>r...@popmail.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) wrote:
>>
>>>Dammit, why was this posted to rec.aviation.piloting! This newsgroup is
>>>for talking about piloting airplanes. Obviously, if it took off with no
>>>pilot, nobody was piloting it, so it doesn't belong here.
>>
>>Hmmm...
>>
>>Suppose Roy is trying to be funny?
>I'm with Roy. Take it to rec.aviation.non-piloting
>or better yet, rec.aviation.drone
>:-)
>Now the *real* question is: can he log the time!?!?!?!?
>Even if it went through clouds?
aah, maybe PIC, but not 'sole manipulator of the controls'?
:\
-John R.
Steve Fox
Man! I hope this guy had his transponder set to "ALT". har!
: >Saw a news blurb this morning on NBC; an Aeronca Champ had apparently
: >been hand propped and the throttle setting must have been a **BIT**
: >high because it took off on it's own after starting and landed out of
: >fuel ninety miles from the home field.
: >
: >It landed in a "bean patch" and was substantially damaged but was
: >intact. AV News reported it climbed to an estimated 12,000 feet before
: >the engine quit.
--
_______________
Steve Fox, mailto:sf...@eskimo.com, http://www.eskimo.com/~sfox/
Seattle area Pipe Organ home page: http://www.eskimo.com/~sfox/seaorgan.htm
John B. Baron
Here's what Reuters reports on it.
Monday November 24 3:52 PM EST
Plane Takes Off Without Pilot, Then Crashes
CHICAGO (Reuters) - Federal investigators said Monday they will try to
figure out how a vintage propeller plane could take off without its
pilot and fly for more than an hour before crash-landing into a farm
field.
Sunday's mishap involved a 50-year-old single-engine Eurinica Champ
which took off from Urbana Grimes Field near Dayton, Ohio, after pilot
Paul Sirks got out to hand-crank the propeller.
"It's a little peculiar so we'll be looking into it," Federal Aviation
Administration spokeswoman Tanya Wagner said, adding that she had
never heard of a case where a plane took off on its own.
The plane buzzed the field and then flew north for nearly 100 miles
before running out of fuel and smashing into a farm field.
---Unquote---
The question I have is, how does the owner log that flight time,
PIC? But he wasn't the pilot in command. Hmmm. I know!
Log it as SOLO!
Poor guy. At least no one got hurt, despite the fact that
he was stand in front of the plane when he was spinning
the prop. He'll likely be in for a lot of kidding from
fellow pilots after this stunt. I seem to recall my flight
text book says something about having a pilot in the
cockpit when hand-propping a plane. Maybe this is
why!
I bet that made his heart beat a bit fast, watching his
plane take off without him! That's like watching your
expensive pet parrot fly away, only you're hoping that
this one doesn't kill anyone when it lands! Wow.
A friend of mine was talking about a plane without a
pilot. I tried to correct him, telling him that it was
a remotely-piloted solar-powered concept plane, thinking
back to that recent news item. I just couldn't imagine
this happening. But my friend was right.
When the guy gets it running again, he can sell it and
tell the buyer how easy it is to fly, that it can
practically fly itself! :D
John
--
======================================================================
My *REAL* e-mail address is aXc...@lafnX.org without the three X's.
I set the mail for this acct. to forward to nowhere. (Damn spammers!)
======================================================================
Tony Talarigo
On Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:25:18 -0600, "John R. Johnson" <jo...@siu.edu>
wrote:
>On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, Sean Franklin wrote:
>
>> Andrew M. Sarangan wrote in message <65cnld$3k...@musca.unm.edu>...
>> >In article <65c374$jl4$1...@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>,
>> >Charles K. Scott <Charles...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>> >>Saw a news blurb this morning on NBC; an Aeronca Champ had apparently
>> >>been hand propped and the throttle setting must have been a **BIT**
>>
>> <snip>
>> >
>> >The way I heard it, the pilot jumped out of the airplane once he found
>> >that the throttle was stuck on high. The plane took off by itself and
>> crashed
>> >90 miles away.
>>
>> There'z a blurb of it at
>> http://biz.yahoo.com/upi/97/11/24/general_state_and_regional_news/usemptypl_
>> 1.html
>
>Ok. That news blurb explains it nicely. He was shooting landings. Engine
>stopped. He is in the middle of the runway by himself. No starter on a
>Champ. Loose throttle. Throttles always vibrate OPEN, not closed! He
>got out and propped it. It sped up and lurched away. He couldn't catch
>it. It went to full power. Took off, trimmed for normal climb. Stable
>airplane. Climbed until it ran out of fuel. Engine quit, and it nosed
>over into a glide. Glided until it ran out of altitude. Sort of like
>a big free flight model. Probably a hard landing. No noticeable flare!
>
>John
>
Just goes to prove that Pilots ARE OPTIONAL... Imagine the look on
that piper pilots face that pulled up along side... :)
Tony
Sean Franklin
Dough! My apologies - not FAR. It is a recommendation in the Pilot's
Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge, and is the basis of one of the Private
Pilot written exam pool of questions: "Should it become necessary to
handprop an airplane engine, it is extremely important that a competent
pilot:" Answer: "be at the controls in the cockpit".
I apologize in the general direction of the populace that were misled by my
previous response :-)
--
Sean Franklin
Indianapolis / Plymouth, Indiana
Garner Miller wrote in message ...
Wyatt R Johnson
In article <roy-241197...@qwerky.med.nyu.edu>,
Roy Smith <r...@popmail.med.nyu.edu> wrote:
>Charles...@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott) wrote:
>> Saw a news blurb this morning on NBC; an Aeronca Champ had apparently
>> been hand propped and the throttle setting must have been a **BIT**
>> fuel ninety miles from the home field.
>
>for talking about piloting airplanes. Obviously, if it took off with no
>pilot, nobody was piloting it, so it doesn't belong here.
>
>rude to just post to some random newsgroup where your article doesn't
>belong!
>
LOL!
Perhaps we should have a rec.aviation.unmanned? <g>
Wyatt
SH2309
Get a life Roy ...
Colleen Condron
In article <19971125153...@ladder02.news.aol.com>, sh2...@aol.com
(SH2309) wrote:
> Get a life Roy ...
Didja ever notice that on usenet, there are a lot of people who don't have
a sense of irony,
nor do they understand sarcasm, facetiousness, or just plain old joking around?
Roy made a joke......some people REALLY need to lighten up.
Glmilligan
>>Kinda silly. Shut off the fuel or switch off the mags. Or even slam on
>>a break and ground loop it. Must have heard that from CBS.
As usual, the news around here said the plane "stalled" and had to be
restarted! AAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!
Greg
Joiner Cartwright, Jr.
>
> Just goes to prove that Pilots ARE OPTIONAL... Imagine the look on
> that piper pilots face that pulled up along side... :)
>
> Tony
Hey, man, don't let the FAA hear you saying that pilots are optional.
They'll outlaw them.
Joiner
Joiner Cartwright, Jr.
Sounds to me like Roy HAS a life.
Joiner
John R. Johnson
Why not. I was a bit "unmanned" just reading about it! :-)
John
John R. Johnson
On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, Tony Talarigo wrote:
<snip>
>
> Just goes to prove that Pilots ARE OPTIONAL... Imagine the look on
> that piper pilots face that pulled up along side... :)
>
He was probably cussing the darn NORDO geek who doesn't look where they
are going and barged right through HIS airspace!
John
John R. Johnson
On 25 Nov 1997, John B. Baron wrote:
>
> Here's what Reuters reports on it.
>
> Monday November 24 3:52 PM EST
>
> Plane Takes Off Without Pilot, Then Crashes
>
>
>
> CHICAGO (Reuters) - Federal investigators said Monday they will try to
> figure out how a vintage propeller plane could take off without its
> pilot and fly for more than an hour before crash-landing into a farm
> field.
>
> Sunday's mishap involved a 50-year-old single-engine Eurinica Champ
> which took off from Urbana Grimes Field near Dayton, Ohio, after pilot
> Paul Sirks got out to hand-crank the propeller.
>
> "It's a little peculiar so we'll be looking into it," Federal Aviation
> Administration spokeswoman Tanya Wagner said, adding that she had
> never heard of a case where a plane took off on its own.
>
Jane Garvey. The FAA has been showing a movie of a Piper Pacer that got
away from the pilot when he propped it with no one in the cockpit. It
chased him all over the airport and finally took off on its own and flew
away. Someone just happened to be at the airport with a movie camera
when it happened and got the whole thing on film. I believe that was
well before the days of video tape cameras. I saw the movie 35 years ago
at an FAA Safety Seminar in Denver, Colorado.
The FAA still lends that movie out for safety seminars.
John
John R. Johnson
On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, J P Rourke wrote:
<snip>
> aah, maybe PIC, but not 'sole manipulator of the controls'?
>
long periods with any controls manipulation being required, but I still
log the time. Airline pilots log the time when Otto Pilot is flying.
Since he was the only one who did manipulate the controls at all, he
should be able to log the time until landing at least. :-)
John
John R. Johnson
On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, Keith Arnold wrote:
<snip>
> Sounds like you've never known this kind of thing to ever happen
> before. Try it yourself. Set up a climb at, say, 80 IAS to 5000 feet
> then reduce power to idle and see what angle and speed you get. It
> would be fun, right?
> --
What ever gave you that idea Keith? I have done that in almost every
airplane I ever flew. I am most curious about the trim change that is
required between power on and power off at the same airspeed. If every
thing else is set up correctly in the design, there should be none.
Theoretically, you should be able to trim to speed. Takeoff trim would
be best climb speed, which is also very close to or the same as best
glide speed. Airplanes like the Aeronca are pretty inherantly stable.
Sort of like a big free flight model.
John
Keith Arnold
Hey, John. . Isn't that what I said. Just trying to get folks to go out
and try it. It will oscillate (pugoid [sp]) a little but will settle
down to the trimmed speed.
Thanks for agreeing.
Garner Miller
In article <65eor8$k38$1...@news.iquest.net>, "Sean Franklin"
<sfra...@dont.want.no.spam.medispan.com> wrote:
> >> Anyone ever wonder why FAR's don't require a licensed pilot at the
> >> controls when hand-cranking? Oh, never mind... THEY DO! :-)
> >
> >Uhhhhhh...where?
>
> Dough! My apologies - not FAR.
Whew! That's good, because I looked to be sure and couldn't find it.
> It is a recommendation in the Pilot's
> Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge, and is the basis of one of the Private
> Pilot written exam pool of questions: "Should it become necessary to
> handprop an airplane engine, it is extremely important that a competent
> pilot:" Answer: "be at the controls in the cockpit".
And it's an excellent idea. I've handpropped old Champs and Cubs without
anyone in the cockpit, but NEVER without the tail tied down very, very
securely. I don't want to be the guy at Orlando Executive last year who
watched his Cherokee Six cruise into a ditch after he hand-propped it at
half-throttle. :-)
--
Garner R. Miller, Flight Instructor
FAA Aviation Safety Counselor
O'Brien Aviation - West Palm Beach, Florida
http://www.netstreet.net/obrien/
Please don't e-mail me copies of your USENET replies.
Sam Black (The Fire-Breathing Penguin)
>> Anyone ever wonder why FAR's don't require a licensed pilot at the
>> controls when hand-cranking? Oh, never mind... THEY DO! :-)
>
> Uhhhhhh...where?
The closest I cound find is good-old 91.13:
Sec. 91.13 Careless or reckless operation.
(a) Aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation. No person
may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to
endanger the life or property of another.
--------------
- sam black Words to live by: never sweat petty things.
And never pet sweaty things.
// Penguin Flight, Inc. "Who says penguins can't fly?"
// Citabria N5067C Commercial Pilot ASELS/AMEL/G/IA/PP-RH
// pen...@world.std.com Flight Instructor ASE
\\ http://www.geocities.com/~penguinflight
Mark Rogers
John R. Johnson <jo...@siu.edu> wrote in article
<Pine.SOL.3.91.971125153157.1712M-100000@reliant>...
Heck, I even log the time back in the restroom!
--Mark Rogers
J P Rourke
>John
Great... now we got another acronym - NOPO. Or should that just be NOP?
-John R
Chad R. Speer
> Heck, I even log the time back in the restroom!
>
> --Mark Rogers
Shoot - I'll only be impressed if you log some dual back there! ;^)
Chad Speer
William LeFebvre
In article <65fpnu$q...@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>,
J P Rourke <jo...@allied-computer.com> wrote:
>Great... now we got another acronym - NOPO. Or should that just be NOP?
404 - Pilot Not Found
Roy Smith
I love it!
--
Roy Smith <r...@popmail.med.nyu.edu>
New York University School of Medicine
550 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016
Roy Smith
pat...@NOSPAMworldnet.att.net wrote:
> I suppose he could argue since the plane was pilotless, he
> wasn't actually "operating an aircraft". :-)
This is true. To cover the situation at hand, the FAR would have to read:
"... No person may operate, or cause to be operated, an aircraft ..."
Terry Cooper
Garner Miller wrote:
>
> In article <65csdj$ekj$1...@news.iquest.net>, "Sean Franklin"
> <sfra...@dont.want.no.spam.medispan.com> wrote:
>
> > Anyone ever wonder why FAR's don't require a licensed pilot at the controls
> > when hand-cranking? Oh, never mind... THEY DO! :-)
>
> Uhhhhhh...where?
If it's not in the FARS it certainly is in the CARs. I don't remember
the exact words but it says something to the effect that there must be a
qualified person at the controls any time the engine is running, or the
a/c must be restrained such that it can't move (tied down, wheel chocks,
...).
Terry
LeonardMB
In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.971125155119.1712R-100000@reliant>, "John R. Johnson"
<jo...@siu.edu> writes:
>I am most curious about the trim change that is
>required between power on and
>power off at the same airspeed. If every
>thing else is set up correctly in
>the design, there should be none.
In my experience (C152, C172, PA28-140, PA28-161 -- no T tails) the airspeed
will be higher in a power-off descent than in a power-on climb with the same
trim position. This presumably is because the increased airspeed over the
horizontal stabilizer (prop wash) gives it more authority to keep the nose up.
I think Langewiesche mentions this in Stick and Rudder.
Marc Leonard
Leon...@aol.com
Glmilligan
>>LOL!
>>Perhaps we should have a rec.aviation.unmanned? <g>
How about rec.aviation.Oh Sh**!
:-)
Greg
your name goes here
"John R. Johnson" <jo...@siu.edu> wrote:
>On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, J P Rourke wrote:
><snip>
>> aah, maybe PIC, but not 'sole manipulator of the controls'?
>>
>Why not, John. Nobody else was manipulating them. I often fly for
>long periods with any controls manipulation being required, but I still
>log the time. Airline pilots log the time when Otto Pilot is flying.
>Since he was the only one who did manipulate the controls at all, he
>should be able to log the time until landing at least. :-)
even landing time in a big boy with autoland like an L1011, BTW does
OTTO need 3 to-landings at all times with passengers?
also when my OTTO is working (damn seldomn these days) it shoots an
ILS far better than I do ;->
Glmilligan
>>Airplanes like the Aeronca are pretty inherantly stable.
>>Sort of like a big free flight model.
I'll bet the poor guy wished it was radio controlled instead! ;-)
Greg
Mark Rogers
your name goes here <iden...@example.com> wrote in article
<347eb161....@news.computek.net>...
> "John R. Johnson" <jo...@siu.edu> wrote:
>
>
> even landing time in a big boy with autoland like an L1011, BTW does
> OTTO need 3 to-landings at all times with passengers?
>
Actually, yes. Well, one autoland in the last 30 days (so 3 landings every
90 days!).
Flew an airplane today that wasn't current (autoland). We were going to
get its currency, but Denver was landing south. Oh well.
--Mark Rogers
> also when my OTTO is working (damn seldomn these days) it shoots an
> ILS far better than I do ;->
Shhhh.. :)
>
Mackfly
This is the third Champ fly-away I've heard of. Does not say much for my pilot
skills, I fly a plane that flys itself?---I met the son of a man that had one
"fly away" here in Nebraska. The plane would have landed ok but for catching
wheels on a fence. As it was it only broke the prop and damaged the top of the
rudder when it flipped over. The repair was only $400.00 back then. The other
one landed in some trees and was a bit tore up.----Think I'll use my chocks
more--Mack
Peter Kerwin
cs...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John B. Baron) wrote:
> Here's what Reuters reports on it.
> Monday November 24 3:52 PM EST
> Plane Takes Off Without Pilot, Then Crashes
> CHICAGO (Reuters) - Federal investigators said Monday they will try to
> figure out how a vintage propeller plane could take off without its
> pilot and fly for more than an hour before crash-landing into a farm
> field.
> "It's a little peculiar so we'll be looking into it," Federal Aviation
> Administration spokeswoman Tanya Wagner said, adding that she had
> never heard of a case where a plane took off on its own.
Where's she been the last few years? The FAA's hiring policy of late
seems to ensure anyone with no aviation experience of a significant high
profile job. Maybe they should have asked someone who's been around
planes and hangars longer than the current FAA administrator.
I'm sure I've heard a lone pilot hand-propped runaway plane story (or an
insecure tiedown) every couple of years - I'm sure it's not that
uncommon though most hit something before getting airborne.
Pete
(f...@camtech.net.au)
Adelaide, South Australia
Tony Talarigo
Even the NTSB report states it that way... Non Flying fools are all
about.
Tony
nightjar
Peter Kerwin <fokN...@camtech.net.au> wrote in article
<347d7d77.58774967@news>...
A week or two back there was a small article in some of the UK papers about
a light aircraft, I forget what, that had flown itself away. The pilot had
taxied up to the control hut in the rented aircraft and got out to look for
someone. The aircraft did a 180 turn and took off, crashing a couple of
miles away. Another pilot, from the pilot's home airfield, was quoted as
saying that 'X has had a number of incidents. I certainly would not lend
him my aircraft'.
Colin Bignell
Jonathan P Smith
Tony Talarigo (mer...@1usa.com) wrote:
: On 25 Nov 1997 16:20:19 GMT, glmil...@aol.com (Glmilligan) wrote:
: >
: >As usual, the news around here said the plane "stalled" and had to be
: >restarted! AAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!
: >
: >Greg
:
: Even the NTSB report states it that way... Non Flying fools are all
: about.
:
: Tony
Might not be as foolish as it sounds. :> I recall reading about a pilot
who had a plane similar to this one- if the engine stopped in flight, you
couldn't dive fast enough to restart. You hand to land & restart. Kinda
annoying, that.