Tips on Flying the Mooney
Justin Maas
I'll be starting to fly a Mooney 201 next week (moving on to faster
aircraft) and would greatly appreciate any tip/pitfalls/gouge on the
aircraft!
Thanks!
Justin Maas
IFR PP-ASEL
Ron Rosenfeld
wrote:
Airspeed and power settings.
Seriously, it flies like any other complex a/c -- it just may not be as
forgiving of excess airspeed and/or sloppy technique on landing as some of
the others in it's range.
Use the POH numbers -- they work.
For instrument flight, figure out the Power Settings/Attitude/Configuration
for the different phases of flight, for that a/c, so you have a baseline to
which to set up, and don't have to be fiddling during approaches.
Have fun!
Best wishes,
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)
paul k. sanchez
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Hey guys and gals!
Justin:
Would strongly suggest that you go thru a qualification course. Learning the
mooney means learning the speed control for different phases of flight. I can
send you the NTSB accident history to show where many pilots did not have
things under control and the ship got away from them.
Yes my company does a 3 day qualification course but my recommendation is to
get it done. Contact Coy Jacobs at mooneymart.com (c...@mooneymart.com) for
further questions about the ship. 941-484-0801.
Fly safe.
paul k. sanchez, cfii-mei
on eagles’ wings
1575 west commercial blvd, hangar 31
fort lauderdale, florida 33309-3057
305-389-1742 wireless
305-573-6988 voice
954-771-0281 fax
Mike Pav
Where will you do your transition training? I've just completed my
checkout on a M20F in Austin, TX. I spent some time in Piper Arrows to
get comfortable with the low wing (coming from a Cessna background in
primary training). I'd definitely recommend that you spend at least 25
hours in a complex trainer (Arrow, C172RG, ...) aircraft before
venturing into the Mooney.
Others have mentioned the need to pay attention to nail the airspeed and
attitude. This is absolutely the truth. If the POH says cross the
threshold at 80, that means 80, not 79 and not 81. Check the archives
for discussions (or ask your instructor) about the infamous "Mooney
Porpoise" on landing. It bites a lot of folks that flare too fast.
Don't relax on landing until you are stopped. If you bounce, go around,
do not try to add a bit of power and save the landing.
The sight picture in the Mooney is much different than in other planes.
Get comfortable with what it looks like on the ground to help with your
flare. In flight, the nose needs to be lower than you would initially
expect.
Finally, it is a slippery airplane. You really need to plan way in
advance to lose airspeed and altitude before entering the pattern.
I really enjoy the handling in flight and on the ground. Very solid,
and stable, while remaining responsive.
Enjoy!
--
Mike Pav
mpav AT vignette DOT com
rm...@my-deja.com
those Mooney maniacs that beleive you need 10 hours dual
to be safe in a Mooney. Truth is, in my experience its
a pretty easy plane to fly for a complex plane.
The one thing that requires some getting used to
is that you cannot expect to be able to just drop
the gear and slow down. While most planes will behave
as if you dropped anchor when you drop the gear, the Mooney
will still coast along. Just watch your speed on final to
be sure you aren't a bit too fast. Some people say
its difficult to avoid hitting the nose wheel in the Mooney.
I have never noticed the Mooney to have any tendency to do
this so I assume it's a Wifes' tale.
Bottom line, don't worry about it!!
In article <DLwE5.2040$JS3.8...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Jim Fisher
I cannot tell you how important it is to have another pilot in that plane
with you when you fly. Preferably, a Southern pilot. Specifically, a pilot
from North Alabama. Namely, well, me.
Ready whenever you are . . . .
--
Jim Fisher
North Alabama
Cherokee 180
http://www.stephenames.com/flying/pipers/pipers5.html
"Justin Maas" <jus...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:DLwE5.2040$JS3.8...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...
Jerry Kurata
201, nice plane. Make sure to have someone familiar with the type check out
in it.
"Justin Maas" <jus...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:DLwE5.2040$JS3.8...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...
Joe McNeill
I've been a Mooney owner since 1985. A C model until 1996, and now an F
(Executive).
I agree with the folks who say the Mooney is no more or less difficult than
most high-performance airplanes, though the J model is significantly faster
than the F.
It will tend to float if you bring it in too fast.
I'd suggest you get checked out by a competent instructor - preferably with
Mooney experience.
I'd also suggest you surf to www.aviating.com and join the Mooney mailing
list. Once you join, you can search the archives. At least one of the
replies to your message comes from a regular poster to that mailing list -
you can search for his name, and decide for yourself if you'd use his
qualification course or not.
Best wishes.
Joe McNeill
Justin Maas <jus...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:DLwE5.2040$JS3.8...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...
Jeff Safran
planning.
You have to have you approach speed nailed or you will float for a while.
80 MPH IAS works well in the M20J. If you are fast by even a few MPH you
will float. Climb speeds are also important to keep the engine cool,
especially on the older models (C, E, and F) without cowl flaps.
Be aware that the Mooney sits lower to the ground than most other planes,
so you nedd to flare slightly lower than your used to. And keep flaring
until you can't anymore. A lot of people say you can't keep the nose off
the ground in a Mooney. This is not true, it is just not as easy to do as
in a Cessna.
Advance planning is needed since it is easy to pick up lots of speed in
the descent.
Yesterday I flew a Mooney 201 doing CFI checkride prep. I was at 7500 MSL
about 10 miles north of Boulder which has a field elevation of 5288. That
means pattern is around 6200 MSL leaving me 1300 feet to lose. I was
still set up for cruise, indicating 160 MPH level, 8 miles out which was a
big problem. I was above gear speed, needed to lose altitude while
slowing down and not chopping the throttle which I never do(always about 1
- 2 inches per minute power reduction, plus I was flying the plane with
it's owner). I slowly reduced power to 17 inches, 2500 RPM while
descending to 6200 at 500 fpm which kept the speed fairly constant. upon
reaching 6200 about 2 miles out, I reduced to 15 inches and dropped the
gear. Now I was already about to turn base. Next time I will remeber I'm
not in a 172, and slow down earlier, it makes the pattern easier. I ended
up being fast on final, about 95 MPH IAS, which led to about 1000 ft of
floating.
The next landing was at Jeffco, where the tower asked us to make a short
approach. This time I was at the correct speed, 80 MPH IAS, on final and
after making a short approach, I did a short slip to lose a little extra
altitude, and could of made the first taxiway (1500 ft from the threshold)
with very little braking, but th tower asked us to roll to A5.
I am currently finishing up my CFI in the Mooney 201, I did my commercial
in the M20C Mark 21, I have about 150 hours in M20C, E, F, and J's. They
are not difficult planes to fly, but they do handle slightly differently
then other planes, I think for the better. I don't agree that that the
Mooney requires a special training course or 25 hours of training, but 5 -
10 is realistic. I do agree that you should find an instructor that is
familiar with Mooneys.
-Jeff
Chip Allen
First, the Mooney is fun to fly. I moved up to it from an Arrow, and
didn't have a lot of trouble. A number of things were different.
1) I've spent most of my time in low wing planes. After I had maybe 15
hours in the Mooney, I went to get checked out in a friend's Cessna
Cardinal so that we could safety pilot for each other. Good thing there
was a good instructor aboard, or I'd be a statistic - the view over the
hood was REALLY REALLY different on landing. The view over the cowl in the
Mooney is different from Pipers and VERY different from Cessnas. If you
spend a lot of time in the Mooney, consider seriously an instructor next
time you fly something else.
2) I had trouble with stalls in the Mooney - it really wanted to wing
over. Took a lot of rudder to keep the nose up.
3) I found that it lands like a dream if you're set up correctly, and like
either a rock or a porpoise otherwise. What my instructor taught me works
very well indeed: Set up correctly on the approach. The approach will
probably be a bit shallower than you're used to. Plan on lots of float -
if your runway has a displaced threshold, aim for a point somewhere on it,
you'll float right to the TDZ. Use all the trim you need, which will be
all of it. I found that with full nose-up trim, the plane came pretty
close to landing itself - the flare was no problem. It certainly has
better landing characteristics than the older Hershey-bar wing
Arrows/Archers you may be used to, those things want to land like bricks.
4) What another poster said is absolutely correct - if the nose porpoises,
hit the throttle and go around. Don't try to save the landing, it's
probably not saveable.
Good luck, and have fun!
Chip Allen
Julian Scarfe
jus...@twcny.rr.com wrote on 10/10/00 5:17 am:
> I'll be starting to fly a Mooney 201 next week (moving on to faster
> aircraft) and would greatly appreciate any tip/pitfalls/gouge on the
> aircraft!
Congratulations, good move!
I've spent 8 very happy years flying the 201 -- difficult to beat as an
economical go-places aircraft.
I could tell you a hundred great things about the aircraft, but I'm going to
mention some things to be careful about:
1) Check the weight carefully. Many 201s are well equipped: ours has a
payload of just 480 lb with full fuel.
2) Learn a few power settings, and if you can, fly attitude carefully. My
'favourite' power setting is 19" 2300 rpm, which gives about 120 KIAS clean
in level flight. It's a good general purpose speeds for holds, initial
approaches etc. For descent, I work on 1" per 100 fpm. If you don't have
some power settings in mind, the relatively wide flight envelope and
slipperiness of the platform can get ahead of you.
3) What people say about getting the airspeed under control on final is
right -- but you get used to that pretty quickly. Carry extra speed and you
*will* float.
4) Watch the prop clearance, and be very picky about the surfaces you taxi
over.
5) Avoid ice like the plague. It's a beautiful wing, but it was designed to
be one particular shape. Dust it with ice and you can get an aerodynamics
lesson for free. ;-)
6) Practise crosswind technique carefully before relying on it. I find
crosswind take-offs more demanding than crosswind landings. A combination
of poor damping (rubber shock disks), the low set wing producing a lot of
lift in ground effect, and a relatively high rotation speed can make control
on the ground at Vr - 5 kt a real handful. Any crosswind component in double
figures requires concentration.
7) Bear the gear-limiting speed in mind early on in the approach. It's fun
cracking down an ILS at 150 KIAS and it makes ATC happy too. But now you're
at 4 miles, try getting the speed back to 132 KIAS in a hurry on that 3
degree glide..! This is when most people are converted to the 'no such thing
as shock cooling' camp -- it's mostly postrationalization. ;-)
Julian Scarfe
jul...@avbrief.com
Dylan Smith
: Hey guys and gals!
:
: I'll be starting to fly a Mooney 201 next week (moving on to faster
: aircraft) and would greatly appreciate any tip/pitfalls/gouge on the
: aircraft!
I don't fly a Mooney - but I do often fly a Beech S-35 Bonanza which is
a pretty quick and slippery plane. (I had a 200 knot groundspeed on part
of my journey back from OK last weekend, w00h00!)
IIRC, you're going from a C150 to a fast plane. The biggest thing is
staying ahead of the plane. You will now find you also have to plan
your descents - yanking the throttle and pointing the nose down 2 1/2
miles out doesn't work any more! Also, don't try and fly the VSI.
Fly attitude. If you try and fly the Bonanza by the VSI, you'll end
up porpoising through the air, and I'm sure the Mooney isn't much
different. You'll even porpoise through the air if you're in a
lower performance retract like an Arrow if you try and fly the VSI.
(You can easily fly a C150 by the VSI though...)
Oh and remember: GUMP stands for:
Gear down
Undercarriage down
Main wheels down
Put the gear down
It's really really important that you do that ;-)
--
Dylan Smith, Houston TX.
Flying: http://www.alioth.net/flying
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"