Blue Angels Jet Crashes, Pilot KIlled:
Bush
http://www.beaufortgazette.com/breaking_news/story/6477257p-5768379c.html
Bush
Dudley Henriques
"Bush" <Bushl...@remove.this.excite.com> wrote in message
news:6t4l23ho9hk387601...@4ax.com...
> Our Hearts and Prayers go out to the friends and families.
> http://www.beaufortgazette.com/breaking_news/story/6477257p-5768379c.html
>
> Bush
Be advised this link was intercepted as a Virus.
Bush
http://www.beaufortgazette.com/breaking_news/story/6477257p-5768379c.html
Mcaffe scanned before posting.
Bush
Mxsmanic
> Be advised this link was intercepted as a Virus.
See
http://us.cnn.com/2007/US/04/21/blueangels.crash/index.html
--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
Blueskies
"Blueskies" <nospamb...@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:...
:
: "Dudley Henriques" <dhenr...@rcn.com> wrote in message news:csGdnQ1akIzlFbfb...@rcn.net...
::
:: "Bush" <Bushl...@remove.this.excite.com> wrote in message
:: news:6t4l23ho9hk387601...@4ax.com...
:: > Our Hearts and Prayers go out to the friends and families.
:: > http://www.beaufortgazette.com/breaking_news/story/6477257p-5768379c.html
:: >
:: > Bush
::
:: Be advised this link was intercepted as a Virus.
::
::
:
: Came up fine for me...
:
: Blue Angel crashes; pilot killed; eyewitness reports home caught fire
: Published Sat, Apr 21, 2007
:
:
:
: + Enlarge Image
: . Buy This Photo
:
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: From Staff Reports
: Comments (0) Add Comment
: A Blue Angel crashed Saturday afternoon while performing at an air show at the Marine Corps Air Station Beaufort.
: Authorities say the pilot, still not identified, was killed in the crash. It appears that the plane struck a tall pine
: tree and traveled another block before crashing near Pine Grove subdivision, a heavily populated area. Parts of the
: plane hit several houses.
:
: It was not immediately known whether anyone else was hurt in the crash, though witnesses said they saw shrapnel on the
: ground and at least one home on fire.
:
: Reports indicate that it was Blue Angel No. 6 that crashed. It's unclear who was piloting that F/A-18.
:
: Emergency crews at the scene of the crash site called for the coroner about 4:20 p.m., indicating that the pilot was
: killed in the crash.
:
: The Blue Angel crashed about 30 minutes into the unit's show at Marine Corps Air Station Beaufort.
:
: Jason Keith, of Yemassee, said he was driving west on Laurel Bay Road when he saw the plane crash behind the Food Lion
: grocery story, which is south of the road.
:
: "Something caught my eye, and all of a sudden I saw a huge black explosion," he said. "The plane went down, and we
: watched it for awhile and I didn't see any parachute or anything. If he had been 400 yards to his right he would have
: plowed into the road. The other guys were just flying along."
:
: Keith said he saw a home catch fire.
:
: Tim Stamps, 18, said he was walking down the road, coming back from Food Lion, when he saw the plane circling in the
air
: and smoking.
:
: He also saw the left side of a house covered in shrapnel and the windows are busted out.
:
:
dea...@msn.com
> Our Hearts and Prayers go out to the friends and families.http://www.beaufortgazette.com/breaking_news/story/6477257p-5768379c....
>
> Bush
Very sad... I wonder if it was pilot incapacitation or an equipment
malfunction.
Big John
As they would say in OZ, Blood shame.
Is it normal to have pilots move up from an admin position on team to
one of the flight positions?
They said that the name of pilot would not be announced for 24 hours
to permit family to receive notification.
6 hours after crash cable TV here in Houston gave his name and rank
(Lt Cmdr) and photo. Just the drive by media showing respect :o(
Did the Navy retrofit the Angel birds with black boxes or do you know?
I would assume there were many photo's taken of the show and am sure
Navy is trying to get copies to help in investigation.
How is your health?
I'm some better. Cataract surgery did not go good and am having
problems seeing things. Has put off my looking at getting into glider
flying.
Mxsmanic
> 6 hours after crash cable TV here in Houston gave his name and rank
> (Lt Cmdr) and photo. Just the drive by media showing respect :o(
Actually, I don't see any reason to withhold the information. Sometimes the
suspense is more stressful than the certainty. And it relieves the other
families of stress more quickly.
Dudley Henriques
Sorry to hear about your eyesight problems. I hope this is correctable for
you.
"Big John" <Big...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d7kn2351ee35fq2h9...@4ax.com...
> Dudley
>
> As they would say in OZ, Blood shame.
>
> Is it normal to have pilots move up from an admin position on team to
> one of the flight positions?
Yes. Some of the admin positions are filled by qualified pilots; some are
not. It depends really. Usually the narrator flies #7 and can be moved into
the team. Steve Mish did this with the Thunderbirds I know.
>
> They said that the name of pilot would not be announced for 24 hours
> to permit family to receive notification.
>
> 6 hours after crash cable TV here in Houston gave his name and rank
> (Lt Cmdr) and photo. Just the drive by media showing respect :o(
Normal for them. I'm sure they figured out fairly fast that in the Delta
formation the two solos form on the Diamond to make the Delta, and it was
obvious that it was one of the solos. Spoting who was left as they taxied in
would finish the ID.
Putting it out just stunk, although the family already knew. They were in
the crowd watching the show.
What a shame to have it like that. I was standing right next to Dick Schram
Jr (Blue Angels Narrator) as his father Dick Sr. was killed right in front
of us at Reading. Real bad day!
I was on the road going to Lakehurst to have lunch with the team when Skip
Umstead and Mike Murphy of the Blues collided and were killed. Another bad
day!
You can't count on the press to do the right thing in these crashes. The
story is always the same with them. The public's "right to know" is more
important than the feelings of the families involved. Personally, I
absolutely hate the press and never once in my entire career did I speak to
a reporter after an accident.
>
> Did the Navy retrofit the Angel birds with black boxes or do you know?
I'm not sure John. I've been away from things for a long time now. I
wouldn't think their airplanes were equipped in this manner though and would
be surprised to learn that they were.
>
> I would assume there were many photo's taken of the show and am sure
> Navy is trying to get copies to help in investigation.
Yes, that is standard procedure. I'm sure someone got it on film. From what
I gleaned from one eye witness, there was black smoke from the tailpipe and
an almost instant crash.
I'm guessing he might have swallowed a compressor or turbine bucket and the
subsequent disintegration as the assembly came loose possibly made the
aircraft instantly aerodynamically unstable. He went in extremely fast and
didn't eject as far as I know so far.
>
> How is your health?
I'm hanging in there. My back will never be the same as it was, but at least
I can function normally....sort of anyway.....without too much pain.
>
> I'm some better. Cataract surgery did not go good and am having
> problems seeing things. Has put off my looking at getting into glider
> flying.
I'm sorry to hear that. I wish you well and hope your vision hangs in there
for you.
Best as always,
Dudley Henriques
Shirl
> > 6 hours after crash cable TV here in Houston gave his name and rank
> > (Lt Cmdr) and photo. Just the drive by media showing respect :o(
Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually, I don't see any reason to withhold the information.
> Sometimes the suspense is more stressful than the certainty.
> And it relieves the other families of stress more quickly.
It isn't about withholding the info to create suspense. It is about
assuring that next-of-kind of the deceased have been contacted
"officially" before they hear it on TV, on the radio or see it online.
Big John
mxsmanic
I'm afraid you don't get the full story.
When I ejected over Greenland in 68, as soon as I was picked up and
had access to a telephone, I called my wife and told her I had ejected
and was OK. Am sure that the word went out ASAP after the birds landed
or prior from the Admin support staff on ground.
While it was reported that his family was at the Air Show they didn't
say who his family was that was there. Could have been his wife and
children or just his wife. Was his father and mother there and if not
how and when were they to be notified (seeing on TV???). I'm afraid
you must be a hard left Democrat and believe the freedom of the press
is more important than truth.
As Dudley said, he never talked to the media after an accident. I also
never talked to the media during war time or after an accident. All
they are interested in is the bottom line ($) and not putting out the
truth. I puke every time I see the media pushing their mics in
someones face after any type of a tragedy.
Why can't we limit the media to not putting out their drivel for two
weeks. There is nothing in the first amendment that says they have to
have access to and must publish yesterday about today's activities. In
an accident by that time (two weeks) there is probably a feeling of
what happened and not some monday morning quarter back shooting his
mouth off with no real facts to base his comments on.
As you can tell, I'm not a freedom of the press individual and work my
best to shut the media down.
You'all have a nice day and fly safe.
Big John
**************************************************************
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 00:07:14 +0200, Mxsmanic <mxsm...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Bob Martin
Essentially, it's basic courtesy, if nothing else. And there's also the possibility of a
misidentification, too, in which case you've messed up _two_ families, not just one. Mx,
I'm sure you would rather hear that your (insert friend/relative here) died from someone
you know, rather than first seeing it on the news.
I wish the media wouldn't be so gleeful about showing crash footage right after an
accident. Last year, a friend of ours stalled and crashed on takeoff. We found out it
was him, not from his family or friends, but from seeing the newshounds' picture of the
crash online.
(we miss you, Leo...)
Mxsmanic
> It isn't about withholding the info to create suspense. It is about
> assuring that next-of-kind of the deceased have been contacted
> "officially" before they hear it on TV, on the radio or see it online.
I'm not convinced that being contacted officially makes it any easier. And a
lot of people worried for quite some time before the official word was given,
which doesn't seem like a good thing.
Mxsmanic
> I wish the media wouldn't be so gleeful about showing crash footage right after an
> accident. Last year, a friend of ours stalled and crashed on takeoff. We found out it
> was him, not from his family or friends, but from seeing the newshounds' picture of the
> crash online.
They do it because they know that crash footage is what people want to see.
Dirty laundry.
People complain about it, but they rush to look at the videos of crashes. You
don't see anyone rushing to see videos of food being handed out to the poor,
or scientists discussing a new cure for a disease.
Mxsmanic
> Why can't we limit the media to not putting out their drivel for two
> weeks.
Because the drivel is what you tune in to watch.
The media produce what people want to see. The media find news that instills
fear, uncertainty, and dread, or, failing that, they look for schadenfreude.
When people are scared, they tune in for reassurance; as long as they remain
scared, they continue to watch (and so the media takes care to never really
reassured them very much). As for schadenfreude, that's the principle in this
case: people like it when others suffer misfortunate, as it makes them feel
more warm and fuzzy about their own lives, and it makes them feel superior.
> There is nothing in the first amendment that says they have to
> have access to and must publish yesterday about today's activities.
Freedom of speech is the most important freedom you have. Be careful what you
wish for.
> As you can tell, I'm not a freedom of the press individual and work my
> best to shut the media down.
I guess having a military that fights and dies to protect that freedom doesn't
mean much to you.
Big John
wrote:
Big John writes:
----clip----
I guess having a military that fights and dies to protect that freedom
doesn't mean much to you.
****************************************************
Been there and done that (WWII, Korea, VN) not like some I hear that
think they know it all and do their fighting from the bar like the
media in Saigon did and filed hand outs from MACV (five o'clock
follies).
I'm gone.
Bye
BJ
Big John
interesting reading.
I have left some comments in by other heavy iron drivers who passed
the original e-mail along.
Dudley may want to comment on this?
Big John
****************************************************************
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:33 AM
Subject: Fw: Blue Angel Loss
This is an explanation of what may have caused the recent crash of a
Blue Angel.
Bob,
Roland sent this to me from a buddy of his. Sad yet interesting that
GLOC can take out even seasoned pilots. Larry
At this point, this is just speculation but interesting.
Subject: Blues
Hey Guys - got the below from Stew Crane, retired 0-6.
**************
For those who missed the news. This from my cousin currently fighting
the war in Hawaii. Pete is a former A4 and F-18 driver and IP. Below
his text is the first official Navy PA report. Stew
From: CAPT, USNR
Subject:
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 12:23:28 -0400
Stew,
More detail available today. Having seen video of the crash, my
initial speculation is that there was a G induced loss of
consciousness (GLOC).
The most aggressive flying in the Blue Angel show takes place in the
join ups behind show center. The timing requires "expeditious" join
ups involving huge overtake speeds and high G maneuvering in the
terminal phase of the rejoin to dissipate the overtake. The video I
saw shows No.6 closing on the formation for the rejoin, but before he
gets there, the jet lags the formation, goes outside the turn radius
and descends in seeming controlled flight to the tree line. This would
be consistent with GLOC on the rendezvous. If the pilot passed out at
the join up, he'd be back on the power. Upon loss of consciousness,
the G would ease immediately taking him outside the formation turn
radius. At flight idle, the jet would slowly descend. To regain
consciousness, the pilot needs blood to flow to the brain which takes
a varying amount of time depending how deep the GLOC. The senses
return in reverse sequence to their loss. Hearing, then vision,
cognition, then motor control. The frustrating part is when you can
see and understand the problem but don't have the motor control to
manipulate the flight controls
appropriately.
*I have done this to myself in the Hornet, thankfully not so close to
the ground.
Of course, without the determinations of the safety investigation, the
foregoing is mere speculation. However, a catastrophic, double engine
failure is unheard of in the Hornet, and it would likely provide
evidence in smoke, flames and parts emanating from the tailpipes prior
to the crash. The media all seem focused on the impact with trees and
power lines, but that is inevitable when falling to the earth.
This pilot was no rookie. A former Tomcat driver and TOPGUN grad, he
was an experienced fighter pilot. GLOC is something that can effect
even the most seasoned pilots and it varies day to day and can turn on
something as innocuous as time since the pilot's last meal.
In any event, this is a sad day for the Navy.
V/r,
Wacko
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.1/778 - Release Date:
4/27/2007 1:39 PM
Dudley Henriques
indeed consistent with 6 missing his hack point for the rejoin then
overshooting the diamond and yanking a yard of stick to arc into a cutoff to
catch up.
The flattening out of the turn and almost instantaneous ground contact is
absolutely consistent with Gloc under the existing conditions .
From what I saw, I'd bet the house it was Gloc.
These things have a nasty habit of NOT being the obvious, and many is the
time you look at something and it's completely wrong, but everyone I know in
the Thunderbird community and the rest of the pilots I know in the
demonstration community all think it was Gloc as well.
Dudley Henriques
"Big John" <Big...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:568c335g4bqeg7gd6...@4ax.com...
Big John
Dudley
Northrup built built two F-20's. One was on way to Paris Air Show and
pilot was practicing his routine at Goose Bay, Lab on way over and
went in from what was later determined as GLOC.
The second F-20 was sent to Korea and in a demo flight with a Korean
General went in almost exactly like the one at Goose Bay.
These two accidents caused a lot of agitation in the fighter comunity
and operational limits on pilots was set up as I recall (especially
for the F-16 which had the ability to put a pilot into GLOC very
easy).
Very insidious thing but is briefed routinely now.
Big John
****************************************
Dudley Henriques
in modern fighters. These new crates can pull g that was way out of the
envelope back in the "old days" when you and I were "dancin and prancin"
around the sky.
In the F16 community, the Viper guys call it the 9g sleep. The guys can hack
it but they are REALLY in shape to do it.
The Blues don't wear g suits and normally, except for some of the solo max
performance stuff, the guys are on the lean side of positive 4 in the
diamond anyway. The solos are into hook territory a few times during their
part of the show and normally they can grunt it off.
But anyone...Blue Angel or otherwise, putting a Hornet or a Viper into a
hard constant sustained high g at low altitude is just asking for a sleeping
pill, especially directly after maneuvering through 3 dimensions as number 6
was doing. He had a perfect setup for a sleep turn, diving in low and fast,
increasing the g to avoid the overshoot, and then adding insult to injury,
throwing in some positive pitch to avoid going low and behind as he broke
the hard deck the diamond was flying as they passed him.
It was a shame really. The Blues could easily have extended for him if the
boss had known what was happening behind him as they passed. He just looked
like he was too close in, and going sucked in the turn. He had the classic
square corner.
All this of course assumes that Gloc was the cause. The MIR can blow it all
away as we both know all too well.
Dudley Henriques
"Big John" <Big...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d9oc335ju5fr4fris...@4ax.com...
Big John
Dudley
If you get may more on #6, please send to me at jhncal at hal-pc dot
org.
Tnx
Big John
******************************************************************
On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:56:56 -0400, "Dudley Henriques"
Dudley Henriques
know" have already checked in with me on it. All of us are awaiting the
investigation report. The MIR will of course be confidential. The Navy will
release a public statement.
If I hear anything through the grapevine, I'll shoot you a back channel note
as requested.
Dudley Henriques
"Big John" <Big...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:kc3d331p5v825v555...@4ax.com...
Big John
Dudley
Evaluation of the Goose Bay crash is on this URL plus some more on the
F-20. Classic high G black out.
Big John
**********************************************************************8
On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:56:56 -0400, "Dudley Henriques"
Dudley Henriques
giving away all our REAL goodies technology:-)
Hank Chouteau was one of the Northrop test pilots who flew it. I had
occasion to work with Hank once during the YF17 (FA18) Hornet development
project when Hank and Bob Elder brought the prototype Hornet down to Pax
River to sell it to the navy. I narrated the demonstration flight for
Northrop at the Pax airshow for Hank. We went out to dinner the night before
the Hornet demonstration and Hank put down a ton of oysters. I remember
recalling that on the mike for about 100 thousand people during the demo as
Hank was doing a 9g turn :-))
Great people at Northrop, and they make great airplanes.
Dudley Henriques
"Big John" <Big...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:s77d33ls162agp3d0...@4ax.com...